Episode 8: "Common Threads" Options

[SecondTry]

Well, they're not going to publish my response to Ted's blog--I sent it last night, and there are two responses posted this morning there now.

PM me if you want to read it; I don't want to post it here.

[WhataJoke]

I think the producers cut the chefs a break when a chef has small children or in a family emergency such as Cynthia calling home to monitor the status of her dying father.

Or when it further's their storyline, like Attention Neck's in Project Runway.

[teleburst]

In English, the phrase "Red Curry" would generally lead people to think a dish is a Thai Red Curry, and that's a very specific set of seasonings and proportions.

And I've only have Viet curry (Ca Ri?) twice (yesterday actually - my second time ever) and to me, it's fairly close in flavor profile to Red Curry (Thai). I think that it's the lemongrass that distinguishes both dishes and in looking over the list of ingredients from the several Vietnamese recipes (especially "Saigon Cari" which ironically features sweet potatoes), the spice blend seems very close to what I associate with Thai Red Curry.Another recipe, "Cari Ga", chicken curry with Taro root, actually uses a Red Curry paste from Thailand (for the purposes of this particular version). In fact, this book groups Vietnam with Thailand, Cambodia and Laos, I guess because it borders the Golden Triangle and has much in common with those countries cuisine.

It's funny how a single ingredient can distinguish one dish from another. For instance, if you generally compare Thai and Indian curries,it's very easy to tell what's what, mostly because of the lemongrass (and the lesser use of coconut milk, of course). However, I might not be able to tell the difference between what I had at my local Pho place and what I'd get at Thai Palace, except that the Vietnamese curry seemed to have a lighter touch with the coconut milk.

[WhataJoke]

Well, they're not going to publish my response to Ted's blog--I sent it last night, and there are two responses posted this morning there now.

PM me if you want to read it; I don't want to post it here.

Again Nice try. I guess unless it's sycophantic fawning, comments aren't getting posted.

[Mluv]

Or when it further's their storyline, like Attention Neck's in Project Runway.

LOL!
Wonder what kind of "attention" he is getting now! No, never mind, I can just imagine!!

[WhataJoke]

Oh and Tom can't even keep the contestants in the Top three straight on his own show, in his own blog.

For those of you paying attention he listed Spike in his top three at first.

Now the blog has been edited and it has Andrew in there instead.
I guess even two day's isnt enough time to get your story straight eh Tommy Boy?


LMAO what a pack of frauds

This post has been edited by WhataJoke: May 2, 2008 - 12:17 PM

[SecondTry]

For those of you paying attention he listed Spike in his top three at first.
Now the blog has been edited and it has Andrew in there instead.

Let's be fair, WAJ--between the block party, the vanilla love, and Andrew's headgear during the tailgate, I'm having a hard time telling them apart these days.

This post has been edited by SecondTry: May 2, 2008 - 12:24 PM

[SimonBao]

And I've only have Viet curry (Ca Ri?) twice (yesterday actually - my second time ever) and to me, it's fairly close in flavor profile to Red Curry (Thai). I think that it's the lemongrass that distinguishes both dishes and in looking over the list of ingredients from the several Vietnamese recipes (especially "Saigon Cari" which ironically features sweet potatoes), the spice blend seems very close to what I associate with Thai Red Curry.Another recipe, "Cari Ga", chicken curry with Taro root, actually uses a Red Curry paste from Thailand (for the purposes of this particular version). In fact, this book groups Vietnam with Thailand, Cambodia and Laos, I guess because it borders the Golden Triangle and has much in common with those countries cuisine.

It's funny how a single ingredient can distinguish one dish from another. For instance, if you generally compare Thai and Indian curries,it's very easy to tell what's what, mostly because of the lemongrass (and the lesser use of coconut milk, of course). However, I might not be able to tell the difference between what I had at my local Pho place and what I'd get at Thai Palace, except that the Vietnamese curry seemed to have a lighter touch with the coconut milk.

Tele, there's a funny thing about that Golden Triangle.

In 2008, lots of Westerners imagine that they see similarities between Thai cuisines, and then the cuisines of Thailand's neighbors, and leap to the assumption that they are seeing "Thai influences." As in Viet Ca Ri dishes.

The thing is, 2008 doesn't mirror history. For the longest time, the Big Bad Power in the 'Hood was the Cambodian/Khmer Empire. There was no actual Thailand or Siam to speak of, not the way that unified nation exists today, and what was there constantly worried about the dominance and hegemony of the Khmer. Vietnam was squeezed between the ever-conquering Chinese to the north, and the big scary Khmer Empire everywhere else.

It turns out that many Viet foods were never influenced by Thai culture, but both Viet and Thai have been heavily influenced by the Khmer. Only 1/3 of contemporary Vietnamese territory is historically Viet, another 1/3 used to be Champa, and the southern 1/3 used to be Khmer. It's very likely it was the conquered Khmer residents who introduced Viet invaders to Ca Ri and Hot and Sour Fish Soups, and other distinctively "southern" dishes. Introduced those to the Thai also.

And yea, we do put white potatoes or sweet potatoes or taro roots into our CaRi dishes. Along with carrots. Taro has that texture that some people love, some not so much. If one makes the CaRi quite hot, it helps to use the sweet potatoes, their sugar content moderates things a bit.

Parsnips can't really grow well in Vietnam and so never made it there, but I've put parsnips in my CaRi. It works. "Just like a carrot... only more so."

[teleburst]

Unless Mark was calling his dish, sweet potato curry I'm not contradicting anything. Tom also said their was squash in his dish which looks to be the element giving the sauce most of its color. Another very healthy vegetable. Poish sausage was supposed to be the main ingredient. Huge difference. Where was the "drunken" element?

Both reasons that they were on the chopping block instead of in the middle or even one of the winners since their dish presumably tasted darn good (but I'm a sea bass fan, except for the overfishing and potentially extinct part of it). Fortunately for them, the "worst dish" rule trumped their tepid interpretation of "drunken Polish sausage". Technically they complied with the challenge since alcohol was part of the sauce and Polish sausage was present. So, they reasonably couldn't have been sent home for "not complying with the challenge", as many people including yourself have hung their hat on. And, unless you screw up sea bass, which isn't impossible but that they didn't do, the dish is going to taste quite good, especially if you keep a light hand on the sausage (which is still a weird flavor pairing). However, Steph and Jenn's dish was pretty much a disaster by anyone's standards, even yours. You don't like soggy and I presume that you don't like oily. And they also fell short in using their main ingredient by casting into the background.

My statement about enforcing the rules is a stone cold fact.
Dave had better tasting food than Shrek and did not complete the challenge: he got sent home.
Howie had better tasting food than Clay and did not complete the challenge: they sent clay home. Cut and dry.

I see. They know on the first day that Howie would be a more colorful and devisive character than Clay, or that he'd offer better "drama points" than Clay, so they cut Clay loose. Did you buy some step ladders from BBB?

I don't quibble with the idea of enforcing the rules differently. In fact, I maintain that it's key to getting to the correct decision. I dispute the idea that it's the producers that are making that decision for the judges. I don't even dispute the idea that they judges occasionally consult the producers with the direction of their decision. But I'm guessing that they do that to give production some ideas about camera cues for editing purposes. And, as we have seen, occasionally it might be for legal reasons.

And there seemed to be more than two ounces of sweet potatoes in his curry along with the squash, onion, carrot, bean spouts, celery and coconut milk seems pretty nutricious to me. I am willing to bet vitamin wise it outperforms Stephaines dish.

Seemed to me to be just about 2 oz. And 2 oz of less dense sweet potato would show up larger than 2 oz of sausage. You left out cucumbers and along with celery, neither offers much nutritional value and there's still the protein bugaboo. Coconut milk in and of itself isn't very "nutritious" in the way that whipping cream isn't very nutritious. Coconut milk is extremely fatty and not in a good way.

I have to wonder, if he indeed used naan bread, how did he make his budget? Did Lee Ann provide it in the pantry? I really doubt that he made it himself, so if he had to buy it at Whole Foods, a frozen packet of 8 would have cost at least $4 by itself.

[dcjewbear]

Whatever you say, dear. I am glad that you can bring all of your experience to this endeavor. Best of luck. Hopefully you can bring your GF to TC and ask her what to cook anytime you need input.

I took a couple of friends; friends who are line cooks and damn fine one at that, to see "Ratatouille" and they all said that, when the lady chef tought Remy how to keep a station properly, they were pleased to see that she did it correctly. They were shocked that the only film to ever get that right was an animated film about a rat. I thought that was funny.

[Mluv]

I'm having a hard time telling them apart these days.

That's so funny! I thought I was the only one who made that confusion!!

[teleburst]

Tele, there's a funny thing about that Golden Triangle.

In 2008, lots of Westerners imagine that they see similarities between Thai cuisines, and then the cuisines of Thailand's neighbors, and leap to the assumption that they are seeing "Thai influences." As in Viet Ca Ri dishes.

The thing is, 2008 doesn't mirror history. For the longest time, the Big Bad Power in the 'Hood was the Cambodian/Khmer Empire. There was no actual Thailand or Siam to speak of, not the way that unified nation exists today, and what was there constantly worried about the dominance and hegemony of the Khmer. Vietnam was squeezed between the ever-conquering Chinese to the north, and the big scary Khmer Empire everywhere else.

It turns out that many Viet foods were never influenced by Thai culture, but both Viet and Thai have been heavily influenced by the Khmer. Only 1/3 of contemporary Vietnamese territory is historically Viet, another 1/3 used to be Champa, and the southern 1/3 used to be Khmer. It's very likely it was the conquered Khmer residents who introduced Viet invaders to Ca Ri and Hot and Sour Fish Soups, and other distinctively "southern" dishes. Introduced those to the Thai also.

And yea, we do put white potatoes or sweet potatoes or taro roots into our CaRi dishes. Along with carrots. Taro has that texture that some people love, some not so much. If one makes the CaRi quite hot, it helps to use the sweet potatoes, their sugar content moderates things a bit.

Parsnips can't really grow well in Vietnam and so never made it there, but I've put parsnips in my CaRi. It works. "Just like a carrot... only more so."

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't talking about influences, I was talking about commonality. And I was only talking about the curries and the fact that I find far more similarity with Thai and my limited exposure to Vietnamese than, say, with either Indian or Chinese curries, and I chalk that up mostly to the use of lemongrass. But when I compare the spices used in Thai and Vietnamese red curry (the only color Vietnamese that I've had), they are almost identical in both kind and proportion. That doesn't mean that Thailand influenced Vietnam (Thailand being the only country in that region not to be colonized, IIRC) but that the indigenous spices are similar. I doubt that you see a lot of lemongrass in India for instance.

If you gave me a Thai red curry and a Vietnamese curry such as I've had twice, the only thing differentiating it to my taste buds would be a lighter sauce and slightly different ingredients, whereas, if you gave me a Vietnamese red curry and something like a Vindaloo or a jerk, the flavor profile would instantly give it away, even if you added coconut milk to try and throw me off. That's all I was saying

[Radyms13]

That's so funny! I thought I was the only one who made that confusion!!

Since tailgate every time I see Andrew I picture him with that freakin helmet on. You can just imagine the mental image when he said *culinary boner*!!! Then it got worse when I read Ted's blog and he talks about hiding the pie!!

[dcjewbear]

Actually if you think back, Pat Robertson was condemned as a nut ball by all news media - liberal or conservative. And, yes, they did run it over and over. Have you forgotten the man ran for President while doing this? LOL And, please, I'm not joining in on a war. Just making a slight correction. You are both very entitled to your opinions.

Hey, you good lookin' thang!

I remember that well. I also remember that the day of 9/11 Robertson and Falwell got on TV and said that it happened because of our leniency towards feminists and gay people, because we all know how the general populace coddles those miscreants.

"Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was. Same as it ever was."

[teleburst]

Oh and Tom can't even keep the contestants in the Top three straight on his own show, in his own blog.

For those of you paying attention he listed Spike in his top three at first.

Now the blog has been edited and it has Andrew in there instead.
I guess even two day's isnt enough time to get your story straight eh Tommy Boy?


LMAO what a pack of frauds

Hmmm, this post was edited.

I guess even cynics can have a brain fart.

[dcjewbear]

Since tailgate every time I see Andrew I picture him with that freakin helmet on. You can just imagine the mental image when he said *culinary boner*!!! Then it got worse when I read Ted's blog and he talks about hiding the pie!!

When I saw Andrew make that statement I gagged and fell down. Drew was alarmed. He thought I was having another heart attack, but, no, I was just grossed out. Andrew with a boner is not an image I want stuck in my head, especially if he's wearing that football helmet. What...a...dork.

[dcjewbear]

Oh and Tom can't even keep the contestants in the Top three straight on his own show, in his own blog.

For those of you paying attention he listed Spike in his top three at first.

Now the blog has been edited and it has Andrew in there instead.
I guess even two day's isnt enough time to get your story straight eh Tommy Boy?


LMAO what a pack of frauds

I love Tom Collichio.

I have had some hellaciously fine meals at Gramercy Tavern and Craftsteak. We also own the books, and one time we actually got to meet him, when he was in residence at Gramercy Tavern. He's even better looking in person, and he was just so nice. I was impressed.

I love Tom Collichio.

[SimonBao]

Dale opted for turkey bratwurst and Spike went puttanesca, but there was still a lot of chicken in use for this Cheap Healthy Challenge. Andrew, Antonia, Lisa, Nikki, Richard, Stephie, went to the chicken.

One can make a nice pasta dish using some braised turkey drumstick though, or thighs, the meat becomes tender, just falls off the bone, stays very moist, and has a richer flavor than white meat poultry.

Probably a bad idea, with kids involved, to go to chicken livers and make a version of Spaghetti a la Caruso? It's chicken livers and mushrooms in a red sauce.

Something using that often regrettable but inexpensive farm-raised Tilapia?

[Mluv]

Since tailgate every time I see Andrew I picture him with that freakin helmet on. You can just imagine the mental image when he said *culinary boner*!!! Then it got worse when I read Ted's blog and he talks about hiding the pie!!

Hi Rady! How's it going?
Now I don't know if I'll be alright watching NFL, they'll look like a bunch of Andrew's playing ball!

[SimonBao]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I wasn't talking about influences, I was talking about commonality. And I was only talking about the curries and the fact that I find far more similarity with Thai and my limited exposure to Vietnamese than, say, with either Indian or Chinese curries, and I chalk that up mostly to the use of lemongrass. But when I compare the spices used in Thai and Vietnamese red curry (the only color Vietnamese that I've had), they are almost identical in both kind and proportion. That doesn't mean that Thailand influenced Vietnam (Thailand being the only country in that region not to be colonized, IIRC) but that the indigenous spices are similar. I doubt that you see a lot of lemongrass in India for instance.

Tele, you were clear. I wasn't misunderstanding you or thinking you were talking about influences. Just passing on a note about our histories back there. This history of what has gone on is part of what makes it all interesting.