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swiss74
August 6, 2006 - 02:35 PM
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Thanks for inflaming a situation that had died dowm, if only until the nutjob had access to a computer again. Nobody said she maybe didnt have a point and we couldnt understand why she was upset. In fact, when she started her rant on the 303 board, we were supportive. Over 100 post later, almost the same post every single time to boot, after that she has secured herself into the troll hall of fame. Her arguement makes no sense anymore. She loves to rant how silly we are if we think our post mean anything to Bravo yet she keeps demanding an apology on the same board.

Please do not enter late into the discussion and try to verbally smack our hands. We tried to be polite but when it escalated like it did Id bet even the Pope would have said "this lady has gotten on my last friggen nerve". I welcome your input on Pr or anything else but please, dont be a drive by poster.


BTW, OT happens. Normally more so the closer we get to a new show. We were actually trying to discuss the episode when the board was hijacked. TC still gets discussed because many of the people who watched it also watch PR and I bet ya a cheeseburger that Bravo is tickled pink for the crossover promotion.
brillke




Please......you guys post 100 pages of off topic stuff...and you [expletive deleted] cause some people enter the conversation late? I"m not reading thru 100 pages of OT stuff. I try...really I do.... I read what totalled to be about ten pages of "her" posts too. I think she was silly. I'm post on lots of boards and don't like trolls.

OT doens't happen normally to the extent it happens here. And putting OT on a post....doesn't cut it because you still have to sift thru pages upon pages. If it was set up better....threads could actually be started which could keep OT stuff in thier own little world. Well great....Bravo is thrilled they are getting Top Chef press. Posters who want to talk about Project Runway might not be thrilled.

If there wasn't so much OT on this board....I would not be what you call a "Drive By poster". I moderate some message boards.....and I like the discussion. I just don't like reading a ton of stuff that doesn't apply. And .....I"ll take that bet!!! Cheeseburger it is.








Actually,I spend more time here reading about the pro's and con's of OT.Who gives a good care about either soide?So you gotta read a bit more,weren't you doing that anyway?So you wanna stick on the subject?Great,say 'now on that subject',or something,but dang,both sides,stop wasting good energy on griping about being on topic or not.OT enough for ya?If ya spend all day on one topic,you'd be as one note as certain designers.We're gonna be diverse here and play fair.So ya gotta scroll?Sorry.So you wanna talk about something else,well,lemme know cause I might not be interested,but it doesnt mean we shouldnt 'talk' again.....And pass the PUNCH.



Sorry I posted things about schools and kids and parents. I thought it explained Keiths motives, cheating and reasons for his motives and cheating. Won't do it again.
swiss74
August 6, 2006 - 02:39 PM
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*applauds* there is a store called torrid that caters to hip young people that are about my size range... LOVE THEM! and layne bryant too to an extent... but yeah... there needs to be a challenge about that.



There does need to be a challenge for the designers to designer for the fuller figured woman. Seeing all these really thin models wants me to run and get them each a gallon of ice cream. Totall concur, there needs to be a episode devoted to the larger woman, just to see how the designers handle it.



The question is, though: Would the show bring in a team of plus-size models, or would they try to get away with designing for bigger women and then attempt to fit the designs on the beanstalks they already have? (Of course, this is a question for PR4 as PR3 is already in the can.)



They would need larger models I guess, but that would make it even more interesting to scale down designs like they scale up designs. Lots would be lost.
Godiva
August 6, 2006 - 02:40 PM
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First, thank you for being teachers.



Thanks.

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In April, while enduring another round of testing at a local university (my son tests appropriately for cognitive and gross motor but doesn't speak) I shared the waiting room with two parents who were having their 6 and 7-year olds tested to ensure placement in a magnet gifted/talented program for the second grade.



Personally, I think second grade is too young for gifted program. Our district tests at fourth grade and seventh grade.

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Seems the school system's tests showed that children were not eligible for the program. Railing against the system and undeterred, these parents were spending not inconsiderable money to have their children tested independently.



The mistake parents make is equating gifted/talented with IQ. You can have a high IQ and not be gifted. Special ed doesn't mean "stupid" either. It just means a learning disabilty that needs special attention.

Gifted and talented has to do with how you approach and solve problems. It's for kids that think outside the box. It's to nurture that talent. Because those are going to be our future inventors. You can be ADHD and still gifted and talented.

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Dave, who starts kindergarten in a few weeks, looked at the father and said "If she's so da*n smart why's her shoes on the wrong feet?"



Priceless. I hope someone took the toy back. That behavior (taking the toy) should never be tolerated. And shame on that Dad.
Carole
August 6, 2006 - 02:53 PM
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I have read this and just had to jump in. I am a teacher. I made myself carve out the hour to watch PR. I applaude you for standing up for your child - I am reg. ed teacher that teaches special ed. children in my class as well and I work hard at making them sucessful as well. HOWEVER, NCLB has made it where I have to do more paperwork than teaching, and my students ARE and have been learning (are any of the politicians out there reading this?). I deal with parents who say it is my fault their children can't pass the madated test to go to the next grade even though they come to my class not able to read or write a sentence. I am just about burnt out as a teacher and ready to quit. I will go back to management - how about Macy's and sell INC's newest outfit? NCLB has made it where I can only find the time to get to this board only after 180 pages of postings, (I understand I have the pleasure of missing someone's "postings" and was it your poem someone mentioned?), I can only try to guess at what "What's his name" has on his neck, how odd "ditzy doodad girl" went from the edge of disaster to a winner, and sad Bonnie had to leave - I loved her "crown" during this episode when they were discussing Keith in their room at Atlas, etc. By the way,I do know everyone's name, I had 2 episodes under my belt before school started, but I now find myself so overwhelmed with new mandated paperwork, that I have little time for myself (which I find myself here).

Keith broke rules, Kayne is really stuck on himself, and I am soooooo surprised Laura was a good girl (so to speak).

Well, I have to get back to the grindstone and work on lesson plans and that "paperwork". Y'all keep up the discussions and keep me laughing. I need the levity every now and then when I am working way past my bedtime. Teaching used to be fun......



I was a teacher for all of six weeks. After my practice teaching I went ahead and got my degree, then went into real estate. Gosh, how my appreciation for you guys soars! Although I am still fuming at the high school teacher my son had, who insisted on referring to Michaelangelo as an "artisan".
brillke
August 6, 2006 - 02:58 PM
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Thanks for inflaming a situation that had died dowm, if only until the nutjob had access to a computer again. Nobody said she maybe didnt have a point and we couldnt understand why she was upset. In fact, when she started her rant on the 303 board, we were supportive. Over 100 post later, almost the same post every single time to boot, after that she has secured herself into the troll hall of fame. Her arguement makes no sense anymore. She loves to rant how silly we are if we think our post mean anything to Bravo yet she keeps demanding an apology on the same board.

Please do not enter late into the discussion and try to verbally smack our hands. We tried to be polite but when it escalated like it did Id bet even the Pope would have said "this lady has gotten on my last friggen nerve". I welcome your input on Pr or anything else but please, dont be a drive by poster.


BTW, OT happens. Normally more so the closer we get to a new show. We were actually trying to discuss the episode when the board was hijacked. TC still gets discussed because many of the people who watched it also watch PR and I bet ya a cheeseburger that Bravo is tickled pink for the crossover promotion.
brillke




Please......you guys post 100 pages of off topic stuff...and you [expletive deleted] cause some people enter the conversation late? I"m not reading thru 100 pages of OT stuff. I try...really I do.... I read what totalled to be about ten pages of "her" posts too. I think she was silly. I'm post on lots of boards and don't like trolls.

OT doens't happen normally to the extent it happens here. And putting OT on a post....doesn't cut it because you still have to sift thru pages upon pages. If it was set up better....threads could actually be started which could keep OT stuff in thier own little world. Well great....Bravo is thrilled they are getting Top Chef press. Posters who want to talk about Project Runway might not be thrilled.

If there wasn't so much OT on this board....I would not be what you call a "Drive By poster". I moderate some message boards.....and I like the discussion. I just don't like reading a ton of stuff that doesn't apply. And .....I"ll take that bet!!! Cheeseburger it is.








What I dont get is sometimes the only time you see a person post it is to [expletive deleted] about OT post. Um, your post is OT too. There is a difference between going Ot and having the board hijacked. This board,304, has more Ot then usual due to a certain nutjob. As for the talk about schools and teachers, it related to PR. People were wondering about Keiths personality. People began discussing types of personalities and how they had come across them. That segued into talk about schools. It all was linked to PR. No, I wont stop going OT but I have curbed the urge to go OT as much as I used too and I personally enjoy most OT. If I dont, I scroll right past the post, just like I will be scrolling right past yours from now on. Damn, this is a good cheeseburger,
brillke
2pooped2see
August 6, 2006 - 03:03 PM
Austin doesnt have the innocence to wear that dress.Now Paris Hilton........lol



Paris Hilton?!? Innocent?!? Somehow those words seem to go together in the same catagory as military and intelligence

Lord, how you make me laugh! I REALLY needed that one! I came up for air long enough to eat and visit the "facilities" and I think you have made me need to visit the facilities again!
brillke
August 6, 2006 - 03:08 PM
"Sorry I posted things about schools and kids and parents. I thought it explained Keiths motives, cheating and reasons for his motives and cheating. Won't do it again."


Youve done nothing wrong. Your explination about Keith,cheating and schools was very interesting and very much about PR.

brillke
Carole
August 6, 2006 - 03:09 PM
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I am really interesting in this weeks episode to see what the designers will do "updating their fashion icon." I have thought about it and have some really laughable ideas. What does everyone else think they will make for the run way?


I think what I saw in the preview showed Laura's model not being able to reach the table with the pictures, and that is why she got the only one left (Cher). I am really looking forward to seeing what Laura does for Cher.
Godiva
August 6, 2006 - 03:10 PM
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*applauds* there is a store called torrid that caters to hip young people that are about my size range... LOVE THEM! and layne bryant too to an extent... but yeah... there needs to be a challenge about that.



There does need to be a challenge for the designers to designer for the fuller figured woman. Seeing all these really thin models wants me to run and get them each a gallon of ice cream. Totall concur, there needs to be a episode devoted to the larger woman, just to see how the designers handle it.



This I want to see as a challenge. This is the third season of Project Runway and I've still to see a challenge for the plus size woman. Don't tell me there isn't a market. Don't tell me we (yes me) don't want to wear fashionable clothes. If there was ever a challenge to design a fashionable, well-fitting outfit, this would be it.

So....where is the Zaftig Challenge?
SHELBYbytheSEA
August 6, 2006 - 03:11 PM
I've finally figured out my problem with this last challenge...

What I don't like was Kayne's freakin' attitude. At the beginning of the show he stated that Keith was "ruthless". Why was he "ruthless"? It was because he was competetive. [end quote]

Umm, go back and watch that episode again...Kayne said that Keith referred to himself as ruthless.
jigengal82
August 6, 2006 - 03:18 PM
I'm so excited!! i bring up a topic like this and i get people all uppity and responsive about it *sniff* im so proud....

let us Real women of the world unite! lets go tell them that this particular market wants/needs this! *grabs the placards*
SHELBYbytheSEA
August 6, 2006 - 03:22 PM
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Please do not enter late into the discussion... I welcome your input on Pr or anything else but please, dont be a drive by poster.

BTW, OT happens. Normally more so the closer we get to a new show. We were actually trying to discuss the episode when the board was hijacked. TC still gets discussed because many of the people who watched it also watch PR and I bet ya a cheeseburger that Bravo is tickled pink for the crossover promotion.
brillke [end quote]

I love your posts and replies...I am trying to determine which part of this I enjoyed the most. I am only including a part of what you wrote so as not to take up too much space.
First off, there are always going to be people who come in mid way and then determine they know what is going on. I myself had nothing better to do and I have actually read through all the pages. I wanted to strangle someone after the 15th post.

Don't be a drive by? Where do you get this stuff.

Finally, some people are just not happy unless there is something negative they can say. I myself am happy to know that other TC fans love this show as much as I do.

b, thanks for the laughs
SHELBYbytheSEA
August 6, 2006 - 03:28 PM
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The Givenchy black gown that Audrey Hepburn wore in "Breakfast At Tiffany's" will be auctioned at Christie's in December. It's a size 2 with a 24 inch waist. Any suggestions from any of y'all who would fit into it?



Austin Scarlett. [end quote]

ROFLMAO
2pooped2see
August 6, 2006 - 03:28 PM
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I'm so excited!! i bring up a topic like this and i get people all uppity and responsive about it *sniff* im so proud....

let us Real women of the world unite! lets go tell them that this particular market wants/needs this! *grabs the placards*



I'll take a placard, but it'll have to wait until the next holiday...

Since they now have viewer's choice on the show, do you think we can get them to let the viewers choose a challenge for PR4?

I SOOOOOO need to get back to work, but I have found your -PR PUNCH to be additive - you should have warned me that you can get hooked on your first cup. hehe!
jigengal82
August 6, 2006 - 03:31 PM
if they did have a viewers choice for challenges...you can only imagine what kind of fugged up stuff theyd have on there...but im pretty sure this one idea will make it.

ooops @ the work thing...

*hiyas...im jigen...and im addicted to PR punch...* :-D
SHELBYbytheSEA
August 6, 2006 - 03:46 PM
As a person who shops in the "Womans" dept, I seriously doubt PR has any plans to the designers make something for me or anyone else my size. That would be too much of a challenge, I think. Apparently the only women spending any kind of money on clothes or on any part of her appearance are skinny woman with nothing better to do than look at the magazines and want to be in the latest styles and trends. I know all I want to wear are potato sacks and look at food magazines...hee
Jillkw
August 6, 2006 - 03:51 PM
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I am really interesting in this weeks episode to see what the designers will do "updating their fashion icon." I have thought about it and have some really laughable ideas. What does everyone else think they will make for the run way?


I think what I saw in the preview showed Laura's model not being able to reach the table with the pictures, and that is why she got the only one left (Cher). I am really looking forward to seeing what Laura does for Cher.



I thought an earlier post mentioned that they thought the model also got to pick which designer they wanted to work with. Does that mean that model thought Laura would be the best fit for updating Cher - or that Laura was also the last designer left? Does that mean the models don't care for Laura?
Carole
August 6, 2006 - 04:06 PM
No, it looked like the model just couldn't get to the table fast enough to pick the photo she wanted. Many of the other designers were very pleased with whom (?) their model picked. Kayne - Marilyn Monroe. Robert - Jackie O. and so on. So the models knew who their designers would be. I am just not so up on the models that I know which designer they work with.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:08 PM
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I should note for those not following the comparison of Keith to lazy/cheating students that the similarity comes together nicely with this refusal of Keith to take any responsibility for having done anything wrong, as if the world is out to get him and he's just an innocent "scapegoat" for those jealous of him. He got smacked by reality and is trying to deny, deny, deny. I hope at some point he gets some sense knocked into him.



I noticed that Keith didn't refer to himself as a "scapegoat" until he was alone with the camera.



Yeah, the responsible adult character was just bs image imo. "Scapegoat" claim and lack of accountability/integrity is really how he is.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:13 PM
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well ya know what...I"m not a new poster and I think Bravo showed some poor taste. While I"m not ready to say "bravo to you" I share a lot of the same sentiments as dee.

I volunteer my time at a local animal shelter and see the fallout of movies like "101 dalmations" and "snowdogs". People buy animals cause they think they are cute...then disgard them when the poop smells.

Not saying celebs do that. Many, I'm sure, treat their animals better than their staff. But...dressing them up in little outfits is pretty silly.

I think the terminology shoud have been a bit better. Fashion accessory wasn't a good choice. Companion animal or something similar. Not a term that made them sould like animals were on the same level as a good pair of earings.

And while I"m PMSing...I still find it hilarious how you guys can [expletive deleted] that people stay on topic. There are 100 pages of off topic crap (why does Top Chef talk continue)...which is why I usually spend my time posting elsewhere. Better boards await.



.... If you can't see that, then we'll be glad not to see you here, either.


Lisakaz, that comment to Kiasmama was completely uncalled for. Just because she-who-must-not-be-named has little (or no) delicacy, diplomacy, or common sense in how to make her point, is no reason to assault someone who clearly took the time to right a more reasonable post explaining her feelings.

Yes, we were all (or at least almost all) disgusted by the needless one's repeated diatribes, but we should not descend to her level by abusing other posters who share the same opinion.



Sorry I disagree. The poster was attacking those of us who couldn't deal with the chatterbox and her diatribes. You didn't see that as an aggressive post taking a shot at us? Well, I did. And if she's going to talk smack, I'm going to point out some obvious facts she missed. I ain't sorry for sticking up for Lia among others. And did it ever occur to you that this poster was chatterbox under another name?
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:24 PM
What you describe sounds like a crime. I always try to be accomodating tho sometimes it's more needed than others (depends on the student). You have every right to do what you did and I'm glad you represent your son well. Unfortunately, there are so many parents who defend inexecusable behavior that maybe your son's problem got heaped into that lot wrongly. Seems odd if he presents a medical finding that compels these accomodations. I hardly think giving an assignment in writing is a big deal. I can't speak for why some teachers would. I almost always give them in writing unless they were oral pop quizes or in-class assignments. But like I said, I've never had a student need that in writing.

The defiant attitude is troubling because it makes the teachers sound lazy in not giving your son a written assignment. I can't see what the big deal was. I'm glad it isn't causing a long term problem. I think if your son mentions the challenges he's faced with this problem in one of those alumni interviews, the advertisy and maturity he shows could work to his advantage. Maybe some female teachers make assumptions about your son based on how he looks?
melisswoog
August 6, 2006 - 04:26 PM
did any of you listen to TIm Gunn's podcast? I was stunned by all of the off-the-camera incidents!!
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:28 PM
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I should note for those not following the comparison of Keith to lazy/cheating students that the similarity comes together nicely with this refusal of Keith to take any responsibility for having done anything wrong, as if the world is out to get him and he's just an innocent "scapegoat" for those jealous of him. He got smacked by reality and is trying to deny, deny, deny. I hope at some point he gets some sense knocked into him.



In Keith's defense, he says in his extended video exit interview (now on the Bravo main page) that the how-to-books were on menswear and that he brought them because he was also designing his new menswear collection in his spare time during the competition. While he may not have used them to "cheat" on any of his designes for the Project Runway competitions, and it should be noted that Bravo is carefully saying that it is not alleging that he did, he was just plain stupid. He "cheated" by merely possessing the contraband books, and also opened himself up to the IMPLICATION that he was using the books to gain an unfair advantage.

Perhaps he did use them. And, then again, maybe he really was just using them for his menswear collection, stupidly thinking that nobody would call him on the "technical" violation of possessing contraband books. I'm not so sure that we are justified in sledghammering him for the substantive issue of cheating on his PR designs. That has not been proven. I'm much more comfortable in just excoriating him for being stupid in violating "procedural" rules. That is where his perceptions are WAY off, and where he needs to do some serious re-examination of how others perceive his actions.



Do you really believe him? Do you believe he made 4 outfits for Morgan? I think he'll say anything and I don't believe a word of it.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:36 PM
Wow, what a story. I'm glad I wasn't in your shoes. I'd have NO patience with parents like that. I woulda grabbed the toy myself and said, if Daddy Megabucks can afford these tests, get 'em to buy you the toy. This one is spoken for. I couldn't stand ill-mannered kids like that when I was their age; I sure can't stand 'em now.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:41 PM
Oh, and I woulda been proud of your son Dave showing up that girl, too. Guess I'm kinda weird about that stuff. He stuck up for his bro and put down Miss Allegedly Smartypants. I woulda rewarded him with a burger or candy or something. Both are kudo worthy in my book. I guess I have a soft spot for the well-timed smart--- comment. He woulda made me laugh; that alone is worth an attaboy to me.
2pooped2see
August 6, 2006 - 04:47 PM
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No, it looked like the model just couldn't get to the table fast enough to pick the photo she wanted. Many of the other designers were very pleased with whom (?) their model picked. Kayne - Marilyn Monroe. Robert - Jackie O. and so on. So the models knew who their designers would be. I am just not so up on the models that I know which designer they work with.



Now I know that my head has been 12 feet into a pile of schoolwork, but did I miss something? Did the models get to choose who they work with? Did the designers choose their models on 304 and I missed it? Did they do it off camera? (Or have we gotten a sneak peak at who is going to choose which "stick" to work with?

**I guess I need to take my size 14 body back into the corner with my papers and get off of this "size" thing. It didn't bother me until I found out Audrey wore a size 2! I'll leave it alone from now on **
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 04:48 PM
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The run into a professor like me in college who does not tolerate cheating in any form and they get a zero on their exam. No ifs ands or buts about it. You cheat you suffer the consequences. All rules are explained at the beginning of the semester and they are told what consequences come with what violation of the rules. Like I said no ifs ands or buts.




And, if you were a high school teacher, you'd have to deal with their parents who insist their child can do no wrong. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.



It is acutally very funny from the parent's perspective when you try to talk to a teacher and explain that you do realize that your child is capable of better work (or not goofing off in class and distracting others) and you would like to work with them to correct the behavior. They are so shocked they don't quite know what to say!
jigengal82
August 6, 2006 - 04:52 PM
no...the model-picture-thing is for next weeks episode... so ya didnt miss anything really...

and dont worry about the audrey size two thing...or the size thing in general...i bet ya look fabulous anyways... im not letting the size thing really get to me...because im healthy and that should be the next trend in fashion...looking healthy
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 04:55 PM
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Those who jump on Keith as a "bad student" must also believe in "guilty until proven innocent," since in effect he was executed by arbitrary decree.




This is a contest with specific rules set by the producers. This isn't a court of law. There's no presumption of innocence here that has to be protected. It's like a kid who cheats on a test. Keith cheated. He's out. There's nothing arbitrary about it. I don't think anyone is comparing this contest to an academic setting. But the comparison works--cheating is cheating. I'm afraid I don't see what there is to argue about. He showed an appalling lack of judgement and an embarrassing lack of self-esteem. If he couldn't do the contest requirements without help, he shouldn't have applied to be in the show. Evidently he know he couldn't do it without the banned cheat sheet/books, or he would never have brought them in. The question that interests me is why he e-mailed the production staff when he took off. What was the point of all that?



You ask a good question. My guess, given what we saw, is that he wanted to explain himself and make a case for him not having used the books. He wanted to save his heiny even tho the very act of emailing showed he was breaking yet another rule. Unbelievable lack of control or understanding.



And that would make sense in his "world." I've taught kids like that (high school). They've always been able to get by using their considerable charm and good looks. Eventually, they run into someone who isn't swayed by either one...Then they don't know how to even get a grip on what's happened.



The run into a professor like me in college who does not tolerate cheating in any form and they get a zero on their exam. No ifs ands or buts about it. You cheat you suffer the consequences. All rules are explained at the beginning of the semester and they are told what consequences come with what violation of the rules. Like I said no ifs ands or buts.




And, if you were a high school teacher, you'd have to deal with their parents who insist their child can do no wrong. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.



We run into irrate parents in the college setting too when their kids do not make grades. Unless parents let the kids fail sometimes somewhere along the line, the kids get out into the real working world and can not figure out why they fail and they blame everyone else for their failure as did Keith did in his exit interview. I go back to my beginning premise that they, the kids are never forced to accept responsibility for their actions. It all is very sad.



When my daughter was playing little league softball, her team only won one game all summer. After about the 5th loss (of 17 games), she wanted to quit and was really depressed. I gave her a speech that my father gave me when I played ball about how you learn much more from failure than you do from victory. She complained about how some of the girls on other teams were so snotty and weren't very good 'winners', so I told her that she knew exactly how to be a good winner because she had so much experience as a 'loser'. She laughed and went on. Her coach came over to me and asked if he could steal my speech. He wanted to use it on the girls the next time they lost (and they were going to!).

We have always expected the most from our kids. We don't expect them to succeed all of the time. Just do their best; that's all we can ask.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:55 PM
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I've finally figured out my problem with this last challenge. It's not that Keith was tossed off. He had books that explicitly broke the rules and he needed to go for that. It's not that Kayne tattled on him. He just pointed it out to the powers that be and that's completely fair.

What I don't like was Kayne's freakin' attitude. At the beginning of the show he stated that Keith was "ruthless". Why was he "ruthless"? It was because he was competetive. It's a contest and aren't you supposed to want to win? Kayne is just is bitter about his problem with Keith and that's unattractive.

I thought maybe I felt this way because I don't respond to Kayne's aesthetic. I don't like that whole fabulous "let's put on a Vegas show" line of fashion. I mean, I prefered Bradley's, admittedly, badly constructed dress the week before to his piece. I just don't get Kayne at all. I really think he's just a p*ssy little b*tch and I really don't like him at all. I hope he messes up this week so I can be rid of him.

Maybe when he get's tossed he can go work for Bob Mackie.



Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought Keith himself said, "I am ruthless."




Kayne was talking to Vincent and said "Didn't Keith say he was ruthless?" Kayne also said it in an interview, too. Keith admits rulebreaking for his own sense of justice. What I might consider bending rules and his sense, methinks, are completely different.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 04:59 PM
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Here's my questions: did "Mom" understand what a research paper was and how her wunderkind had not done the assignment (I presume he had no bibliography to speak of)? How in her opinion does it help to reward "work" that is so off-point that it does not qualify as work? What grade did she think it deserved? Did she propose to fight battles for this kid's crappy work for the rest of his life?



This is where a written assignment and rubric (preferably online for access) is handy.

You can pull out the assignment and say "Johnny failed to meet #3, 7 and 10 of the assignment" and then pull out the rubric and point to the grade points for each section.

I also use an electronic grading program (Micrograde). Parents no longer question my grades when they have a printout of every assignment for the year. Because computers don't make math mistakes.



Good for you. If ya break it down like that, they can't argue. I wonder how that ride home for her went? LOL.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 05:02 PM
I agree with you about the toy thief. And that Dad needed the kid's putdown to snap him awake.
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 05:05 PM
They just couldn't accept that my son was perceptually handicapped -- had difficulty physically taking information in -- because they knew that he was a very intelligent kid and just assumed the only reason he was doing poorly was because he was f*cking off. When my son realized how they felt, classes that had been a joy for him ceased to be. He dreaded them and the teachers who made his life miserable with their stubbornly inconsiderate behavior and their negative misperceptions of his attitude.

I applaud every parent who stands up for his or her perceptually disabled child. While those parents, too, are viewed as pains in the ass by many teachers, at least they have a very valid beef.

<off my soapbox>



Stay on your soap box! There are other parents who need someone like you to help them get through to the idiots.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 05:10 PM
I listened. It was mature of him and generous to feel such sympathy for Keith but I'm glad the rules are written so that no one can be swayed by Keith's charm to just let him turn in the books and they turn the other cheek like nothing happened. They didn't expect the AWOL. I guess legal considerations preclude the production from releasing whatever Keith emailed to them. I'd be interested in seeing how he tried to excuse himself from possessing those books.
swiss74
August 6, 2006 - 05:12 PM
Quote:

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The run into a professor like me in college who does not tolerate cheating in any form and they get a zero on their exam. No ifs ands or buts about it. You cheat you suffer the consequences. All rules are explained at the beginning of the semester and they are told what consequences come with what violation of the rules. Like I said no ifs ands or buts.




And, if you were a high school teacher, you'd have to deal with their parents who insist their child can do no wrong. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.



It is acutally very funny from the parent's perspective when you try to talk to a teacher and explain that you do realize that your child is capable of better work (or not goofing off in class and distracting others) and you would like to work with them to correct the behavior. They are so shocked they don't quite know what to say!



Think of how it is to deal with college students parents where the grades are even more important as to the jobs they get or the grad school they get into. It is a never ending battle.
lisakaz
August 6, 2006 - 05:16 PM
Quote:

Quote:


The run into a professor like me in college who does not tolerate cheating in any form and they get a zero on their exam. No ifs ands or buts about it. You cheat you suffer the consequences. All rules are explained at the beginning of the semester and they are told what consequences come with what violation of the rules. Like I said no ifs ands or buts.




And, if you were a high school teacher, you'd have to deal with their parents who insist their child can do no wrong. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.



It is acutally very funny from the parent's perspective when you try to talk to a teacher and explain that you do realize that your child is capable of better work (or not goofing off in class and distracting others) and you would like to work with them to correct the behavior. They are so shocked they don't quite know what to say!



As a kid, I was always scared of those things. What are they going to tell my mommy? I was afraid I could do something wrong and they'd upset her. Apparently I never did that, but I sure was apprehensive. To me it was just a different type of report card. And I always wanted mine to be better than my brother's, at the very least.
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 05:25 PM
Quote:

I agree with you completely. Do you remember Chloe's model from last season wearing the leaf dress? Really hated her look. And Robert's model from episode one - her face looks so gaunt with the sunken cheeks. I like Nazri - she's very slim but at least she looks healthy. Free protein bars for everyone!



I forget her name, but Laura's model (brunett, looks about 14 lol) is thin but looks to be one of the biggest ones on the runway. but she at least looks healthy.
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 05:30 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

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Here's my questions: did "Mom" understand what a research paper was and how her wunderkind had not done the assignment (I presume he had no bibliography to speak of)? How in her opinion does it help to reward "work" that is so off-point that it does not qualify as work? What grade did she think it deserved? Did she propose to fight battles for this kid's crappy work for the rest of his life?



This is where a written assignment and rubric (preferably online for access) is handy.

You can pull out the assignment and say "Johnny failed to meet #3, 7 and 10 of the assignment" and then pull out the rubric and point to the grade points for each section.

I also use an electronic grading program (Micrograde). Parents no longer question my grades when they have a printout of every assignment for the year. Because computers don't make math mistakes.



Been there, done that - parents still think it's the never-has-been-and-never-will-be-a size-2 teacher's fault.

As for Austin Scarlet (I'm not sure who offered that suggestion to fit Audrey's dress)..... we may need to fatten him up a little. What do y'all think?




Austin doesnt have the innocence to wear that dress.Now Paris Hilton........lol



OMG! Paris innocent? Puleeessseee!!!
Carole
August 6, 2006 - 05:30 PM
I'd be interested in seeing how he tried to excuse himself from possessing those books.


Keith does excuse himself about possessing the books in a People Magazine article. He said he was involved in producing his menswear line due out soon after PR finished. However, Kayne pre-empted this excuse by saying that a pattern book detailing how to make a notched collar was the same if it was designed for a man or a woman. Several designers agreed that for the seven weeks before the show, when they knew they would be on the show, they studied hard for the techniques they would need. Kayne compared it to a pageant, where the girls can study all they need to but when the pageant goes on, they have to rely on what they already know. And I'm sure the many teachers on the board here agree - it's futile to try and learn something at the last minute.
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 05:31 PM
Quote:

*pops up and looks around* someone say punch???

and as for fattening up mr. austin... i got a puerto rican roast pork with his name on it... chicharrones and all (im a rican in case anyone scratches their head after that comment) so thats obviously a yes vote for me



I don't need fattening up, but it sure sounds good from the midwest!!!! I'll swap ya a couple of kegs of punch for some puerto rican roast pork!
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 05:55 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


The run into a professor like me in college who does not tolerate cheating in any form and they get a zero on their exam. No ifs ands or buts about it. You cheat you suffer the consequences. All rules are explained at the beginning of the semester and they are told what consequences come with what violation of the rules. Like I said no ifs ands or buts.




And, if you were a high school teacher, you'd have to deal with their parents who insist their child can do no wrong. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.



It is acutally very funny from the parent's perspective when you try to talk to a teacher and explain that you do realize that your child is capable of better work (or not goofing off in class and distracting others) and you would like to work with them to correct the behavior. They are so shocked they don't quite know what to say!



As a kid, I was always scared of those things. What are they going to tell my mommy? I was afraid I could do something wrong and they'd upset her. Apparently I never did that, but I sure was apprehensive. To me it was just a different type of report card. And I always wanted mine to be better than my brother's, at the very least.



My daughter knew when she got in trouble at school, she was in trouble at home. In 6th grade she and a boy were throwing spitballs in class. This teacher should never have been teaching 6th grade...I doubt if she had the back bone to teach preschoolers. I had heard from other moms that this teacher was a pushover and these kids would eat her alive. And, I will admit, my daughter lived for moments like that. It took until January for this teacher to get fed up with my daughter and this boy throwing spitballs. She sent them to the office and they got 1 days detention. This school doesn't just send home notes...we know those can disappear...the office calls the parents. This is a Lutheran school, preschool to 8th, and everyone knows most everone else. I went there, my father went there, my grandfather went there... When my daughter got home that night, she was stunned that I knew all about it and started to get really scared. She was grounded for a week and had to do extra chores around the house.

When she went back to school the next day to serve her detention, the principal asked the two of them what their parents said. The boy said his parents laughed, but didn't intervene to get him out of the detention. My daughter hung her head and said, "I'm grounded for a week." The principal was very surprised and told my daughter, "Now that is good parenting".

I have always offered to help the teachers get through to my daughter (the James Dobson book, The Strong Willed Child, was my bible) that people are offering her something and she has to take it. "Steal" it if she has to. If she doesn't show some form of interest in learning, they aren't going to push it either. They have kids who want to learn. No one is going to give you anything if you don't want it. Especially an education.

Oops! Soapbox gets awfully high sometimes, doesn't it? Sorry!
azucena
August 6, 2006 - 05:55 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:


The run into a professor like me in college who does not tolerate cheating in any form and they get a zero on their exam. No ifs ands or buts about it. You cheat you suffer the consequences. All rules are explained at the beginning of the semester and they are told what consequences come with what violation of the rules. Like I said no ifs ands or buts.




And, if you were a high school teacher, you'd have to deal with their parents who insist their child can do no wrong. I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.



It is acutally very funny from the parent's perspective when you try to talk to a teacher and explain that you do realize that your child is capable of better work (or not goofing off in class and distracting others) and you would like to work with them to correct the behavior. They are so shocked they don't quite know what to say!



Think of how it is to deal with college students parents where the grades are even more important as to the jobs they get or the grad school they get into. It is a never ending battle.



I have a slightly different perspective on some of this, but before I start, let me begin by saying I absolutely agree with what y'all are saying about accountability (or lack thereof), etc.

I returned to college full-time in the fall of 2003 as a 52-yr-old sophomore. I hadn't attended regular classes since 1970. I was not prepared for the amount of time a number of the younger students were willing to waste arguing with a professor over grades and expectations. I mean they WORKED hard at arguing, justifying, rationalizing, etc. That was time they could have spent reading, working on papers, etc.

Every prof I had in every class I took over the three years gave us a syllabus the first day which outlined explicitly what was required to achieve various grades: A, B, C, etc. I viewed this as a sort of "contract" -- If I did what was required for a given grade, that's the grade I'd get. If I wanted an A, I had to do the required work. Period. It never would have occurred to me to try to "negotiate" anything else.

Long story short -- I graduated on June 10 summa cum laude with a 3.99 GPA (the only A- I got was in a single 3-credit course). I didn't have to work that hard, either. And I don't think it's because I'm that much smarter than anyone else. Heck, at my age, I'm already having "senior moments" here, so I had to take seriously good notes and make sure I stayed on top of things. But honestly, it wasn't that hard! I didn't work half as hard as the smarter "kids" who were trying to circumvent the "system" to get better grades.

I just don't get it, I guess. Someone like Keith who is probably very talented, who has a great artistic eye -- all he had to do was tailor his behavior to match the terms of the contract and he might have gone all the way. How difficult would that have been? It seems to me that it would have taken more time/energy to do what he did than to just do what he was supposed to do. I dunno ... it make me kinda sad in a weird sorta way ...
MissOtis
August 6, 2006 - 05:57 PM
Quote:

I'd be interested in seeing how he tried to excuse himself from possessing those books.


Keith does excuse himself about possessing the books in a People Magazine article. He said he was involved in producing his menswear line due out soon after PR finished. However, Kayne pre-empted this excuse by saying that a pattern book detailing how to make a notched collar was the same if it was designed for a man or a woman. Several designers agreed that for the seven weeks before the show, when they knew they would be on the show, they studied hard for the techniques they would need. Kayne compared it to a pageant, where the girls can study all they need to but when the pageant goes on, they have to rely on what they already know. And I'm sure the many teachers on the board here agree - it's futile to try and learn something at the last minute.



Some patterns traced from the book were found at his workstation at Parson's. He lies as he breathes IMO.
SisterZip73
August 6, 2006 - 06:03 PM
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Quote:

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Quote:



Long story short -- I graduated on June 10 summa cum laude with a 3.99 GPA (the only A- I got was in a single 3-credit course). I didn't have to work that hard, either. And I don't think it's because I'm that much smarter than anyone else. Heck, at my age, I'm already having "senior moments" here, so I had to take seriously good notes and make sure I stayed on top of things. But honestly, it wasn't that hard! I didn't work half as hard as the smarter "kids" who were trying to circumvent the "system" to get better grades.

I just don't get it, I guess. Someone like Keith who is probably very talented, who has a great artistic eye -- all he had to do was tailor his behavior to match the terms of the contract and he might have gone all the way. How difficult would that have been? It seems to me that it would have taken more time/energy to do what he did than to just do what he was supposed to do. I dunno ... it make me kinda sad in a weird sorta way ...



Wow! Would you be my mentor! That is really impressive. I worked one year after high school to earn enough money to go to college one year (in 1974, my dad felt girls only needed college to be a teacher or a nurse)so he wasn't going to pay for it. I only went one year (74-75) and came home because I didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up.

Now at 51, I really would like to go back, but have a boss that doesn't want to work around a schedule that our employer (a Community COLLEGE) say she could. So it is a fight to find the energy, the time, and the focus to push it through.

I raise a glass (a big glass) of PR Punch for you!
FoodFanOne
August 6, 2006 - 06:12 PM
Quote:

What you describe sounds like a crime. I always try to be accomodating tho sometimes it's more needed than others (depends on the student). You have every right to do what you did and I'm glad you represent your son well. Unfortunately, there are so many parents who defend inexecusable behavior that maybe your son's problem got heaped into that lot wrongly. Seems odd if he presents a medical finding that compels these accomodations. I hardly think giving an assignment in writing is a big deal. I can't speak for why some teachers would. I almost always give them in writing unless they were oral pop quizes or in-class assignments. But like I said, I've never had a student need that in writing.

The defiant attitude is troubling because it makes the teachers sound lazy in not giving your son a written assignment. I can't see what the big deal was. I'm glad it isn't causing a long term problem. I think if your son mentions the challenges he's faced with this problem in one of those alumni interviews, the advertisy and maturity he shows could work to his advantage. Maybe some female teachers make assumptions about your son based on how he looks?



OT I don't think his looks entered into it. He's tall, reasonably cute, and his hearing aid is no bigger than a chewed lump of gum tucked into his ear. Very few ever even notice he is wearing it.

I think part of the problem is that the teachers assume that if he has a hearing aid, that everything is all better. Wrong! Some folks only get garbled noise when they put in a hearing aid, and it does them no good. Others put it in and get more volume, but not more clarity. That is my son's situation. But, with more volume, he can decipher enough consonants to get most of the words. Also, it is directional. If a teacher walks across the room to his right side, her speech sounds like "wah wah wah" to him. He also frequently can't hear kids who ask questions behind him and only realizes a conversation is taking place when the teacher begins to answer. In science lab, he would get frustrated becasue the rest of the kids at his lab table would whisper and giggle the whole time and he couldn't hear any of it.

The male teachers always stuck him on the right side of the room and stayed firmly planted to his left side, where he can hear clearly. Once, my son was looking down and missed sometning, and the male teacher chided him that he should listen more. My son promptly popped out his hearing aid, held it out in his plam, and said "That's why I wear this." The teacher was shocked, and immediately apologized profusely, saying that my son did so well that he literally forgot my son had trouble hearing!

Now, whenever my son starts a new class, he goes to visit the teacher, pops out his hearing aid to show 'em, and explains what he needs. It gives him more credibility later if he says that he missed something that was said. He also is more persistent about asking somebody to repeat sometning he didn't quite get.
Iamonemore
August 6, 2006 - 06:13 PM
In response to the below partial cut and paste of a post, the fact I heard is he had a "menswear" pattern book with him -- plainly visible to everyone because he was working on designs (for himself) in "mens' wear" to present to clients after the show's completion... The producers knew it via Kayne -- so did all the other contenstants; and it didn't seem to bother any of the designers until Kayne made a huge stink over it -- the quote from Keith's interview that Bravo's exit interview misses:

From Keith's interview:

"One of the books was the most detailed pattern book you would ever see about menswear that had nothing to do with anything on the show. I brought it because I was working on my menswear line at the time. And the other was a dictionary of production terms."

So, the person that wrote the following, needs to first undertand the facts before she admonishes.. improperly.

(the cut and paste from a board posting I am responding to):

This is a contest with specific rules set by the producers. This isn't a court of law. There's no presumption of innocence here that has to be protected. It's like a kid who cheats on a test. Keith cheated. He's out. There's nothing arbitrary about it. I don't think anyone is comparing this contest to an academic setting. But the comparison works--cheating is cheating. I'm afraid I don't see what there is to argue about. He showed an appalling lack of judgement and an embarrassing lack of self-esteem. If he couldn't do the contest requirements without help, he shouldn't have applied to be in the show. Evidently he know he couldn't do it without the banned cheat sheet/books, or he would never have brought them in. The question that interests me is why he e-mailed the production staff when he took off. What was the point of all that?
FoodFanOne
August 6, 2006 - 06:15 PM
Quote:

Do you really believe him? Do you believe he made 4 outfits for Morgan? I think he'll say anything and I don't believe a word of it.



Somebody mentioned that when he was talking to Bradley at the worktable and encouraging him to just do anything, he was holding a little orange doggie outfit. When I rewatched epi 303, I kept an eye out for it and did see it. He was holding a dog leash attached to a little orange cape thing. So, he must have made at least one and rejected it as too gauche.
KariAna
August 6, 2006 - 06:16 PM
I hate to say this but NEVER in a blue moon will the

designers bring in plus size models. Not until they had

burned out their candle for skinny people. I am a plus

size and one of my biggest complaints about fashion

is that the good fashion doesn't reach the plus sizes.

It is as if they believe that a tent is good enough for

us. Another thing that frosts me is that I walk one hour

a day at a pretty fast pace and after the first thirty pounds

gone I am at a plateau that doesn't want to give for over six

weeks now. Anyway, the only way plus size women will ever

get good fashion is if we make it our selves and some how

someone sees it and makes it global.
Raymondo
August 6, 2006 - 06:16 PM
Quote:


Austin doesnt have the innocence to wear that dress.Now Paris Hilton........lol



Paris Hilton?!? Innocent?!? Somehow those words seem to go together in the same catagory as military and intelligence

Lord, how you make me laugh! I REALLY needed that one! I came up for air long enough to eat and visit the "facilities" and I think you have made me need to visit the facilities again!



Bless your heart there.Enough visits to the john,and YOU,YES YOU can fit in an Audrey Hepburn special.Actually,as Billy Joel says,don't go changin' to try n please me.I luv ya just the way you are.And dont really care if I'm slightly OT.Just be kind to me,as I bruise,and digress,easily.heheh
Iamonemore
August 6, 2006 - 06:19 PM
Kayne knew very well that the pattern books Keith had were not in any way being used for anything done on the show... they WERE MENS WEAR pattern books! If Kayne sent packing the show has lost its integrity, and I will not think as highly of the productions staff et al, because they could have told Kayne to put a cork in it and edited out all the ruthless verbage -- and just gone forward.

Keith was the designer to beat -- they just got rid of the best. I've been watching it since the first season -- and now, I'm just kind of: Ehhh?
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