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I think that they should make the team challenges where only the team leaders are safe. That way, everyone would try really really hard to present their designs and be picked as a leader. Because with the current team challenges, if you don't want to be eliminated, you just present a crappy scetch, get paired up with someone, work really hard, and them stab your leader in the back if it goes downhill. Easy way to secure a spot next week, right? But if we do it where leaders get immunity, it would cause more drama/ tension between the other designers....
What do you guys think of my idea?
When I was watching the show I told DH that I always feel sorry for the team leaders because they're most likely to get the shaft. I think the idea of immunity for team leaders is interesting. Of course Vincent scrapped by when he was teamed with Angela.
I'm amused by the Keith supporters. Maybe instead of Keith's friends making him a laughing stock they've all come on board to tell us all how badly he was shafted .
Full Version: Episode 304: Reap What You Sew
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My first replying to a post. I am on the West Coast and don't get to watch the show, I have to catch the rerun. I have to agree with you on your choices. I would be happy with either Robert or Michael winning . I really enjoy reading everybody's posts. They are real polilt and do not get too rude with each other.
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I think that they should make the team challenges where only the team leaders are safe. That way, everyone would try really really hard to present their designs and be picked as a leader. Because with the current team challenges, if you don't want to be eliminated, you just present a crappy scetch, get paired up with someone, work really hard, and them stab your leader in the back if it goes downhill. Easy way to secure a spot next week, right? But if we do it where leaders get immunity, it would cause more drama/ tension between the other designers....
It's not fun being ignored!
Babang,
I, for one, love your idea. And I, sadly, also know what it feels like to be ignored by the boards. Sob. Guess that is the fate of the newbies like me. Want to be my friend? :-)
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Kayne didn't do anything to protect the integrity of the show. Kayne did what he did to protect Kayne. He knows his chances of winning go WAY up with Keith gone.
Remember that little whiner in school who went behind your back and tattled to the teacher about something you did?
I got that exact same feeling tonight when I saw what Kayne did. I'm betting that if it was Bradley or one of the less talented designers that no one would have said anything!
And talk about karma! Isn't that like what goes around comes around? So, Kayne will be getting his back sometime soon, I'm sure.
I just wish Robert was the one to go tonight. His outfit was AWFUL. That Land's End jacket over that Mary Jane two piece outfit. They're just keeping him around because of his potential, like they did with Santino. I can't stand one more minute of his whiny, nasal-y, I'm-so-much-better-than-you voice!
So, he should say nothing as Keith cheats or sabatoges? Gimme a break. With that kind of money and reputations on the line, he wants a legitimate chance to win. As do all the others. Keith WAS NOT legit and his lack of skills were exposed, only in part by his exposed cheating. Kayne may have protected himself, but he also protected every other contestant who plays the game fairly.
I look at it this way: am I supposed to overlook people who turn in plagiarized papers? Are they supposed to benefit from this lack of effort? Is it fair to all the other students who work fairly, whether they get A, B, C or D? No, it isn't fair. So, if I catch a person turning in a paper that's clearly plagiarized, I turn 'em in. I fail 'em. I don't ask for explanations or excuses. And if they try to weasel out of it in denials and stories and attempts to circumvent the rules of the class (and I have a clear policy of plagiarism on all my syllabi), I push harder for them to be held fully accountable. Keith was held accountable for what he did. Don't put this on Kayne. He shouldn't be put in that position in the first place but I applaud him for acting.
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Looks like next week the Models pick the Designers! Excellent. Wonder who isn't fast enough in the free-for-all grab-at of the Designer's pics.
LOL! wonder who twisted her ankle and ended up with Vincent or Angela.
LMAO!!!
Very Catholic of you, and I mean that in a good way (forgiveness reconciliation, etc,) I agree. I was disappointed in Laura's comment
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I have absolutely no sympathy for Keith. He brought this on himself. And the sad thing is he didn't have to.
He'll never be invited to Red Lobster now.
As sweet as Andrae is, he wouldn't even go with him!
thanks pjrunway yeah that's true it was def. a risk -possibly a new hip trend- i think i'd be more likely to do the rosette buttons as much as i hate to say it lol than the hanging tank straps- i could see it now my kids just swinging on them lol- yeah i think too on giving the challenge to angela; producers weren't stupid that would be a legal nightmare- i'm sure keith would insist on having his name on the design etc etc-- i just want to say too i don't think kayne did anything wrong, and people keep pting the finger at him, but several were in the room in agreement- he was just the one to step forward i guess since he saw them- and i thought from the pic they were under a bed?- i'll have to watch it again for the details! i can't believe how i am addicted to this i never watch the same episode twice of anything else lol
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I think that they should make the team challenges where only the team leaders are safe. That way, everyone would try really really hard to present their designs and be picked as a leader. Because with the current team challenges, if you don't want to be eliminated, you just present a crappy scetch, get paired up with someone, work really hard, and them stab your leader in the back if it goes downhill. Easy way to secure a spot next week, right? But if we do it where leaders get immunity, it would cause more drama/ tension between the other designers....
What do you guys think of my idea?
It's not fun being ignored!
Patience my friend, patience *smile* I needed a refill of PR Punch! Actually, it's interesting, I can see where it would keep the teamleader from "backing into" the team's knife, but then the opposite would happen also....would a teamleader be tempted to pull punches in order to get someone else auf'd? Hmmmm,. speaking of punch.....must find more punch.
:-)
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The only villianous character in this episode is Heidi.
Since when does having unused pattern books in your room and skipping out to play on the internet make one villainous?
If anything, Keith was a coward. He had no faith in himself or his talent, and he brought some crutches he never used. I have little doubt that his leaving the premises and surfing the web was a way to escape from listening to tales about Barbie and the twilight zone of kiddie beauty pageants.
Often people with as much talent (or money or political power) as Keith feel entitled. They are above the rules. And the lucky ones will one day run into a wall of humiliation so unexpected that they are shocked into reclaiming their humanity, their ordinariness. Talent does not equal moral goodness. One is a gift , the other is a lifetime of choices.
Keith made some bad choices, and hurt only himself. Would that he could have owned up and taken responsibility immeditely, but this may have delivered a shock like he has not had before...although I am sure he has been caught out like this previously, but in a lesser variant. He may not learn the lesson and throw away a chance to be not only talented and successful but also loved and loving. It is a choice we all have to make, be we Fashionistas or floor sweepers
Much eviler was Heidi's absolute glee in his "villiany." Even Laura's denouncement after the fact was beneath her.
To strike a person when they are down is often worse than the original infraction, and I think that holds in this case. The lesser person pours fuel onto the fire of humiliation, the greater person offers an honest balm, as did the inimitable Top Gunn, who expressed his pain, sorrow and surprise by not only directly confronting Keith but ackowledging his talent and the hope that still lay ahead, should he make straight his reckless path.
I hope Keith learns from this that great talent is never an excuse for abandoning one's ordinary human responsibilities. Ever.
And that everyone else takes advantage of a golden opportunity to practice forgiveness and tolerance. Let the one who has never acted the coward, never lied, never cheated in the game of life, throw the first pattern book.
His punishment has been meted.
A further ounce of flesh is not necessary.
~Holster's Ghost
Fantastic post.
L i m a B e a n
Quote:Be afraid. Be very afraid.lolQuote:Quote:Just make sure that when you want to speak off topic that you mark it in the "subject line" to let other bloggers know that you are now discussing something else:)Quote:Quote:If you want humor. Give it a couple of days when we run out of topic to discuss:)
Is it just me or does this group seem pretty humorless...maybe they need to take a page from Top Chef and give these folks a few "after hours" cocktails...who knows, Vincent could be the next "chunk lafunk"...
Good point...just hoping to lull some of the rabid conspiracy theorists into a false sense of humor...I mean security...
And teacher, this is off topic because...oh yeah, now we actually ARE off topic...
Just remember the sanctimonious attitude of Kayne is a true sign of hypocracy, because he "killed off" someone he couldn't beat on the runway over a technicality that probably had no bearing on the competition. How is that good sportsmanship? The show will be poorer for Keith's absense. And I might stop watching alltogether because the the bummer vibe cast upon the whole proceedings by this manipulative and silly redhead prom dresser.
After this episode, I hope they start giving out an annual "Mark of Kayne" award for the most ruthless player.
Who was the really ruthless person on this show? The arrogant one who constantly cheated, alienated everyone in the hopes of rattling them, and thought he was above the rules? (All the guys agreed that the rules were made very clear to everyone.) And who thinks Kayne could not beat Keith in design? Both had won a challenge, so in my book they were even in talent. To me, it was very evident that Keith did not understand rules when he was upset he did not win the dog challenge.
After this episode, I hope they start giving out an annual "Mark of Kayne" award for the most ruthless player.
Who was the really ruthless person on this show? The arrogant one who constantly cheated, alienated everyone in the hopes of rattling them, and thought he was above the rules? (All the guys agreed that the rules were made very clear to everyone.) And who thinks Kayne could not beat Keith in design? Both had won a challenge, so in my book they were even in talent. To me, it was very evident that Keith did not understand rules when he was upset he did not win the dog challenge.
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Looks like next week the Models pick the Designers! Excellent. Wonder who isn't fast enough in the free-for-all grab-at of the Designer's pics.
LOL! wonder who twisted her ankle and ended up with Vincent or Angela.
Oh, is THAT what they were all grabbing for? Duh. Nevermind that last post...
I'm glad Angela's team won this week. She had a great design. So what if her sketch wasn't great? She conveyed her idea to the man from Inc. and that's all that mattered. Haven't the other designers tried to schmooze their bad designs on the runway to the judges when the judges criticize? In fashion, it's all about selling your ideas.
There's no way Keith's design would have won, they would not have given him the win after what transpired.
I think it's a shame that they didn't show Angela working more on the outfit. I'm sure she did or Michael and Laura would have complained. Also, did you notice that Nina Garcia did not say anything about it on the runway? No way she would compliment Angela, she's had it in for her since the beginning, the way she had in in for Wendy Pepper.
There's no way Keith's design would have won, they would not have given him the win after what transpired.
I think it's a shame that they didn't show Angela working more on the outfit. I'm sure she did or Michael and Laura would have complained. Also, did you notice that Nina Garcia did not say anything about it on the runway? No way she would compliment Angela, she's had it in for her since the beginning, the way she had in in for Wendy Pepper.
here here I agree with you. Whether we or the contestants agree with the rules, they have agreed to them. During their orientation they are given the rules. The books were clearly off limits. Kayne had every right to make the issue known. It took a lot of guts to do that.
I think it would be great if they could also make the rules known to the viewers as well. Perhaps in the first show, they could spend a little time and post what the rules are. It sure would be awful to have another "Top Chief" incident where the rules changed from day to day
I think it would be great if they could also make the rules known to the viewers as well. Perhaps in the first show, they could spend a little time and post what the rules are. It sure would be awful to have another "Top Chief" incident where the rules changed from day to day
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wow. you guys are soooo . . . i dont even know the word.
i totally stick up for keith 100 percent. he handled this whole competition exactly the way i would. i think he is a very independent guy. he knows he has talent he knooows how to use it. i think most people are scared of him. thats all just scared. no one will even admit it. hes gonna make somethin of himself. you just wait.
you cant fully know someone just by watching a reality tv show. all you can judge is the finished product. and every one i saw that belonged to him looked perfect. from there is where i draw my conclusion that he is the best on that show. my favorite.
Handled the way he should? I suppose you support cheating and plagiarism too. The rules were clear. He had books he shouldn't, he left the production, he went on the internet (maybe for more cheating). OUT, OUT, OUT. Justice was served.
Hey everyone!!
I really wish they would stop doing team challenges... I really love seeing each individual designer's aesthetic, especially since it's early in the season and we don't know them very well.
I was pretty surprised that Angela was picked as a team leader. Her sketch was ugly as hell (SO reminiscent of her "camp counselor" outfit from last week) and I feel like she was REALLY lucky to have Michael and Laura on her team, who have both shown that they are capable designers and extremely skilled clothing constructors. Angela has not excelled in either category yet, and I can't give her all the credit for this one either. I was pretty impressed that she was easy to work with and a decent leader, though. This was really a team effort. Regardless, the final product was awesome and I think it deserved to win!
I thought they would give Jeff and Alison more time to work on their design since they were down a player, but it didn't seem like Kieth was contributing all that much anyway. This might have actually worked in their favor because it allowed them a little more lee-way to tweak the design to fit their taste. All in all I thought their design was really cute and modern.
I was really disappointed in Robert's design! He has been one of my favorites so far. I'm really glad they didn't kick him off, but judging by the preview of next week's episode it seems like he might have another close call. As for Bonnie's, I thought the shirt was really ugly, the pants very standard/boring, and the jacket was nice but without anything to back it up the outfit as a whole fell flat. I think she deserved to go on this one.
I would have totally liked to see Vincent go because everything he has produced thusfar has been either TOTALLY ugly (i.e. first episode weirdo hat thing), or completely ordinary (green dress, ok, next.... black mini-dress, I can go buy one right now at the mall down the street thanks). My favorites are Michael and Alison!!
As for Kieth, I'm glad he's gone because his attitude was annoying. BTW, did anyone catch Laura's quote on Angela's designs? I can't remember it exactly but I do remember it was funny as hell lol).
I really wish they would stop doing team challenges... I really love seeing each individual designer's aesthetic, especially since it's early in the season and we don't know them very well.
I was pretty surprised that Angela was picked as a team leader. Her sketch was ugly as hell (SO reminiscent of her "camp counselor" outfit from last week) and I feel like she was REALLY lucky to have Michael and Laura on her team, who have both shown that they are capable designers and extremely skilled clothing constructors. Angela has not excelled in either category yet, and I can't give her all the credit for this one either. I was pretty impressed that she was easy to work with and a decent leader, though. This was really a team effort. Regardless, the final product was awesome and I think it deserved to win!
I thought they would give Jeff and Alison more time to work on their design since they were down a player, but it didn't seem like Kieth was contributing all that much anyway. This might have actually worked in their favor because it allowed them a little more lee-way to tweak the design to fit their taste. All in all I thought their design was really cute and modern.
I was really disappointed in Robert's design! He has been one of my favorites so far. I'm really glad they didn't kick him off, but judging by the preview of next week's episode it seems like he might have another close call. As for Bonnie's, I thought the shirt was really ugly, the pants very standard/boring, and the jacket was nice but without anything to back it up the outfit as a whole fell flat. I think she deserved to go on this one.
I would have totally liked to see Vincent go because everything he has produced thusfar has been either TOTALLY ugly (i.e. first episode weirdo hat thing), or completely ordinary (green dress, ok, next.... black mini-dress, I can go buy one right now at the mall down the street thanks). My favorites are Michael and Alison!!
As for Kieth, I'm glad he's gone because his attitude was annoying. BTW, did anyone catch Laura's quote on Angela's designs? I can't remember it exactly but I do remember it was funny as hell lol).
Why are people bashing Kayne? So what if he told on Keith he was cheating! It’s a competition for goodness sake! It doesn’t make a difference if he used the books or not he knew what he was doing. I would have been the first one to turn him in because why should he even be able to have an unfair advantage over the others. If you want to blame someone blame fricken Keith. He would have gotten caught eventually!
It reminds me so much of the Shoe Scandal of Season one in which Kara Saun has those shoes custom made and the others didn’t have the same resource. That in it’s self sets the precedence. No unfair advantage. Besides I was thinking that if the Internet disappearance thing didn’t get him then the discount would for the same principle as the books.
Kayne is still adorable! Ever since the Miss Universe challenge I always picture him with a little tiara on and an arm of roses! He’s got the perfect “World Peace” smiles LOL! As for Bonnie going home was disappointed because I really liked her initial design but the color and eventual style was yuck! (I would still wear the brown granny pants over the butt crack showing skirt ROFL! What the hell happened there! If the majority of the team wasn’t gay males I’d say they were looking for some…I’m sure you get the point! Lucky Barbie isn’t anatomically correct!)
Bring back Michael Cors! The Vera Wang thing just sucks. The judges sound bites this season are going to suck unless Michael comes back! How many times can you hear Nina say how not pleasing something is and Vera Wang say it’s modern or wtf, blah, blah, blah…yawn! If it weren’t for Heidi and Tim I’d say forget the commentary all together.
Just my opinion!
It reminds me so much of the Shoe Scandal of Season one in which Kara Saun has those shoes custom made and the others didn’t have the same resource. That in it’s self sets the precedence. No unfair advantage. Besides I was thinking that if the Internet disappearance thing didn’t get him then the discount would for the same principle as the books.
Kayne is still adorable! Ever since the Miss Universe challenge I always picture him with a little tiara on and an arm of roses! He’s got the perfect “World Peace” smiles LOL! As for Bonnie going home was disappointed because I really liked her initial design but the color and eventual style was yuck! (I would still wear the brown granny pants over the butt crack showing skirt ROFL! What the hell happened there! If the majority of the team wasn’t gay males I’d say they were looking for some…I’m sure you get the point! Lucky Barbie isn’t anatomically correct!)
Bring back Michael Cors! The Vera Wang thing just sucks. The judges sound bites this season are going to suck unless Michael comes back! How many times can you hear Nina say how not pleasing something is and Vera Wang say it’s modern or wtf, blah, blah, blah…yawn! If it weren’t for Heidi and Tim I’d say forget the commentary all together.
Just my opinion!
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The only villianous character in this episode is Heidi.
Since when does having unused pattern books in your room and skipping out to play on the internet make one villainous?
If anything, Keith was a coward. He had no faith in himself or his talent, and he brought some crutches he never used. I have little doubt that his leaving the premises and surfing the web was a way to escape from listening to tales about Barbie and the twilight zone of kiddie beauty pageants.
Often people with as much talent (or money or political power) as Keith feel entitled. They are above the rules. And the lucky ones will one day run into a wall of humiliation so unexpected that they are shocked into reclaiming their humanity, their ordinariness. Talent does not equal moral goodness. One is a gift , the other is a lifetime of choices.
Keith made some bad choices, and hurt only himself. Would that he could have owned up and taken responsibility immeditely, but this may have delivered a shock like he has not had before...although I am sure he has been caught out like this previously, but in a lesser variant. He may not learn the lesson and throw away a chance to be not only talented and successful but also loved and loving. It is a choice we all have to make, be we Fashionistas or floor sweepers
Much eviler was Heidi's absolute glee in his "villiany." Even Laura's denouncement after the fact was beneath her.
To strike a person when they are down is often worse than the original infraction, and I think that holds in this case. The lesser person pours fuel onto the fire of humiliation, the greater person offers an honest balm, as did the inimitable Top Gunn, who expressed his pain, sorrow and surprise by not only directly confronting Keith but ackowledging his talent and the hope that still lay ahead, should he make straight his reckless path.
I hope Keith learns from this that great talent is never an excuse for abandoning one's ordinary human responsibilities. Ever.
And that everyone else takes advantage of a golden opportunity to practice forgiveness and tolerance. Let the one who has never acted the coward, never lied, never cheated in the game of life, throw the first pattern book.
His punishment has been meted.
A further ounce of flesh is not necessary.
~Holster's Ghost
Nice post. I think your observation that the producers are actually lapping up the publicity of this is good. Heidi no doubt was encouraged to be bad cop to Tim's good cop. And yep, they got it all on camera.
No worries, I agree, Keith will land on his feet.
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I can't believe that little rat Kayne. What a whiner! He and Robert were scared to death of Keith's talent. While I didn't particularly like Keith or his arrogance, that was slimy turning him in to the producers. Just a dirty, underhanded little trick. So what if he had a book? It wasn't even hidden. Just like a little creep to go snooping in someone else's room to dig up some dirt on the competition. Other people have done underhanded things and haven't been called on them. How many designers have lied on the runway so far?
And it's laughable for Tim Gunn to say the show has standards. What standards did Kara Saun live up to in Season 1? She totally cheated. She got custom made shoes from vendors in return for publicity. And that was totally against the contract. Then she got the vendor to lie about the cost of the shoes. So, she cheated and lied. How then did she finish second? I remember how the judges oohed and aahed over the "details" of her designs, how she put so much thought into them. And they supposedly were told that they weren't allowed to judge based on the shoes. She also "borrowed" design elements from Gucci. So, she cheated, lied and stole designs. Some standards, Project Runway. Let's have some consistency and integrity here.
I am a firm believer that Kara Saun didn't win Season 2 because of those shoes. She didn't even look surprised when Jay was announced. Because she was in the final 3, they wouldn't have had much of a finale. And maybe they hadn't claryfied the special favors from friends bit.
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I think that they should make the team challenges where only the team leaders are safe. That way, everyone would try really really hard to present their designs and be picked as a leader. Because with the current team challenges, if you don't want to be eliminated, you just present a crappy scetch, get paired up with someone, work really hard, and them stab your leader in the back if it goes downhill. Easy way to secure a spot next week, right? But if we do it where leaders get immunity, it would cause more drama/ tension between the other designers....
It's not fun being ignored!
Babang,
I, for one, love your idea. And I, sadly, also know what it feels like to be ignored by the boards. Sob. Guess that is the fate of the newbies like me. Want to be my friend? :-)
Now c'mon you guys! We're all loving each other's posts! Just keep going. It's kind of like we are all standing around thinking out loud. Everyone is reading you (or at least skimming) you, promise.
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I can't believe that little rat Kayne. What a whiner! He and Robert were scared to death of Keith's talent. While I didn't particularly like Keith or his arrogance, that was slimy turning him in to the producers. Just a dirty, underhanded little trick. So what if he had a book? It wasn't even hidden. Just like a little creep to go snooping in someone else's room to dig up some dirt on the competition. Other people have done underhanded things and haven't been called on them. How many designers have lied on the runway so far?
And it's laughable for Tim Gunn to say the show has standards. What standards did Kara Saun live up to in Season 1? She totally cheated. She got custom made shoes from vendors in return for publicity. And that was totally against the contract. Then she got the vendor to lie about the cost of the shoes. So, she cheated and lied. How then did she finish second? I remember how the judges oohed and aahed over the "details" of her designs, how she put so much thought into them. And they supposedly were told that they weren't allowed to judge based on the shoes. She also "borrowed" design elements from Gucci. So, she cheated, lied and stole designs. Some standards, Project Runway. Let's have some consistency and integrity here.
Sorry I meant season 1
Quote:Quote:Be afraid. Be very afraid.lolQuote:Quote:Just make sure that when you want to speak off topic that you mark it in the "subject line" to let other bloggers know that you are now discussing something else:)Quote:Quote:If you want humor. Give it a couple of days when we run out of topic to discuss:)
Is it just me or does this group seem pretty humorless...maybe they need to take a page from Top Chef and give these folks a few "after hours" cocktails...who knows, Vincent could be the next "chunk lafunk"...
Good point...just hoping to lull some of the rabid conspiracy theorists into a false sense of humor...I mean security...
And teacher, this is off topic because...oh yeah, now we actually ARE off topic...
I am fortified with a lethal combo of sharpie scent and PR punch...and just so that I don't get my hand slapped (hmmm on second thought...) i believe those who diss poof-skirted Angie must remember that her own TEAM MATES were not so grudgingly supportive of her...shocked, perhaps, but still supportive...
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okay i have another thing to say. . . im thinkin those guys were a lil afraid of competition. . .
like they never looked at a fashion how-to book.
AND keith has never done womans wear. . . they should have felt superior. . . like they know how to do it. and he doesnt. therefor he has to look at a book for a little quick learning. they have lifetime experience.
whateverrr i may be wrong or ignorent or even naive. . . but i think keith should have been given a chance!
Now one is saying that any one of them has not looked at a book. They just can't do it for the show.
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Why are people bashing Kayne? So what if he told on Keith he was cheating! It’s a competition for goodness sake! It doesn’t make a difference if he used the books or not he knew what he was doing. I would have been the first one to turn him in because why should he even be able to have an unfair advantage over the others. If you want to blame someone blame fricken Keith. He would have gotten caught eventually!
It reminds me so much of the Shoe Scandal of Season one in which Kara Saun has those shoes custom made and the others didn’t have the same resource. That in it’s self sets the precedence. No unfair advantage. Besides I was thinking that if the Internet disappearance thing didn’t get him then the discount would for the same principle as the books.
Kayne is still adorable! Ever since the Miss Universe challenge I always picture him with a little tiara on and an arm of roses! He’s got the perfect “World Peace” smiles LOL! As for Bonnie going home was disappointed because I really liked her initial design but the color and eventual style was yuck! (I would still wear the brown granny pants over the butt crack showing skirt ROFL! What the hell happened there! If the majority of the team wasn’t gay males I’d say they were looking for some…I’m sure you get the point! Lucky Barbie isn’t anatomically correct!)
Bring back Michael Cors! The Vera Wang thing just sucks. The judges sound bites this season are going to suck unless Michael comes back! How many times can you hear Nina say how not pleasing something is and Vera Wang say it’s modern or wtf, blah, blah, blah…yawn! If it weren’t for Heidi and Tim I’d say forget the commentary all together.
Just my opinion!
I agree on Kayne. He never should have been put in that position. The blame rests with Keith who ironically attempted to scapegoat the others in addressing his own bad behavior.
So we had an instance of cheating. Interesting to read the responses. I feel Kayne did the only thing he could do, he reported a problem that existed with one of the contestants. You would be suprised at the number of students that try to cheat on exams take it from a professor. Somewhere something is lacking in their education. Some students feel it is their RIGHT to cheat. I felt that was Keith's attitude, "it was his right to cheat." His attitude for the past few weeks has been arrogant and was exhibited with the dog episode. He probably has broken many rules along the way and this is the first time he has had to suffer the consequences for his actions. Maybe he will learn a lesson from this experience.
I also was dissapointed in Vincent's attitude tonight. He complained so bitterly about Angela during the evening gown episode I would have thought he would have been a little more guarded in his actions. He stood behind behind his team leader and kept shaking his head. Makes me wonder what was edited out tonight regarding his actions and also his actions when he was working with Angela. I am not an Angela fan but maybe Vincent was responsible for some of Angela's actions during that episode.
I also was dissapointed in Vincent's attitude tonight. He complained so bitterly about Angela during the evening gown episode I would have thought he would have been a little more guarded in his actions. He stood behind behind his team leader and kept shaking his head. Makes me wonder what was edited out tonight regarding his actions and also his actions when he was working with Angela. I am not an Angela fan but maybe Vincent was responsible for some of Angela's actions during that episode.
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is it just me or do the rest of you girls think it's such a waste that roberts gay..it sucks..
but also...kayne and robert..those two make such a good couple though...
and his body +_+ gosh just wanna go up to him and rip off his top..
Totally agree!!! TOTALLY AGREEEEEE!!!!
design maven why am i now picturing you as the bully in school j/k-- i am sure i haven't read through the whole contract application they all signed including keith, but i'm sure kayne felt he had an obligation to tell as well. Withholding information like that would also be against the rules i would think- i mean there are big stakes here- how is that tattling, when he clearly broke the rules. Whether or not he used the books are not is a moot point, he brought this all on himself- a stupid stupid decision; he didn't trust his talent enough i guess. It did seem odd how he was passing the challenging construction to allison and jeffrey; his arrogance was def. part of his insecurity i think with his women's wear construction knowledge. You would have thought he would have been great at pants being a men's wear designer? There were several in the room in agreement with him to tell what he saw, and keith already had other infractions anyway. Robert i agree his design was a miss this time, but i don't think Bonnie impressed anyone much either very mediocre - of course we never got to see her much anyway. Robert had already proven himself several times and has become a stand out; it made sense to me to keep him in on that he just had a miss this time. of course i loved santino too though because he was good on the first few challenges as well; i hope robert doesn't go down hill . lol on the land's end jacket though that was really bad agreed!-
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okay i have another thing to say. . . im thinkin those guys were a lil afraid of competition. . .
like they never looked at a fashion how-to book.
AND keith has never done womans wear. . . they should have felt superior. . . like they know how to do it. and he doesnt. therefor he has to look at a book for a little quick learning. they have lifetime experience.
whateverrr i may be wrong or ignorent or even naive. . . but i think keith should have been given a chance!
Now one is saying that any one of them has not looked at a book. They just can't do it for the show.
Sister....I so agree. If you sign on the dotted line, you'd damned well best be prepared to accept the consequences of neither reading nor following the fine print. That is real world. And, I say it again.....he had the chance to dump the material when they first checked in. Read Tim's blog. He didn't. He felt rules only apply to him when he chooses them to. He ignored the consequences of his actions. No matter how talented he is, reality bites and karma comes around.
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I think Kayne was being way more ruthless than anything Kieth did in the show by ratting on him in a way that would get him thrown off. These books were not hidden away, but were on a bookshelf, and most people mind their own business instead of getting caught up in what others have or are doing. Maybe Kieth had no idea these were against the rules. The information they contained was probably so rudamental it wouldn't have been of any use on this level of work and design. Kieth was targeted by Kayne because he was a top contender and threat.
Just remember the sanctimonious attitude of Kayne is a true sign of hypocracy, because he "killed off" someone he couldn't beat on the runway over a technicality that probably had no bearing on the competition. How is that good sportsmanship? The show will be poorer for Keith's absense. And I might stop watching alltogether because the the bummer vibe cast upon the whole proceedings by this manipulative and silly redhead prom dresser.
After this episode, I hope they start giving out an annual "Mark of Kayne" award for the most ruthless player.
The books were under the bed, not on a bookshelf. And, I may be wrong here, but I thought I heard Kayne say Keith said something to him about it.
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Well, Angela is a good team leader. She knows how to pick her staff. If she picked anyone else, she wouldn't have won. She has a very domineering personality and only Laura could reign her in. And actually, I hate to say it, the rosettes looked cute on the jacket. It was a bit much on the pants, but the jacket was great.
Maybe she learned something from her experience with Vincent.....a team leader does need to listen to and give credence to the team....and she did, and it paid off. This could so easily have been another Jubilee Jumble nightmare!
LOL!!! No kidding!
It does not surprise me that some are disturbed by Kayne's actions, nor that some defend them.
Kayne did have a responsibility to deal with what was or could have been an unfair advantage...something which did or would have hurt the other contestant's chances.
The fault lies in the way he did it. Instead of "ratting him out," Kayne could have confronted Keith drectly, alone, and given Keith the oipportunity to rat himself out. If he had refused, then Kayne would have been quite justified in going to the producers.
He too acted out of cowardice.
_GofH
Kayne did have a responsibility to deal with what was or could have been an unfair advantage...something which did or would have hurt the other contestant's chances.
The fault lies in the way he did it. Instead of "ratting him out," Kayne could have confronted Keith drectly, alone, and given Keith the oipportunity to rat himself out. If he had refused, then Kayne would have been quite justified in going to the producers.
He too acted out of cowardice.
_GofH
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The only villianous character in this episode is Heidi.
Since when does having unused pattern books in your room and skipping out to play on the internet make one villainous?
If anything, Keith was a coward. He had no faith in himself or his talent, and he brought some crutches he never used. I have little doubt that his leaving the premises and surfing the web was a way to escape from listening to tales about Barbie and the twilight zone of kiddie beauty pageants.
Often people with as much talent (or money or political power) as Keith feel entitled. They are above the rules. And the lucky ones will one day run into a wall of humiliation so unexpected that they are shocked into reclaiming their humanity, their ordinariness. Talent does not equal moral goodness. One is a gift , the other is a lifetime of choices.
Keith made some bad choices, and hurt only himself. Would that he could have owned up and taken responsibility immeditely, but this may have delivered a shock like he has not had before...although I am sure he has been caught out like this previously, but in a lesser variant. He may not learn the lesson and throw away a chance to be not only talented and successful but also loved and loving. It is a choice we all have to make, be we Fashionistas or floor sweepers
Much eviler was Heidi's absolute glee in his "villiany." Even Laura's denouncement after the fact was beneath her.
To strike a person when they are down is often worse than the original infraction, and I think that holds in this case. The lesser person pours fuel onto the fire of humiliation, the greater person offers an honest balm, as did the inimitable Top Gunn, who expressed his pain, sorrow and surprise by not only directly confronting Keith but ackowledging his talent and the hope that still lay ahead, should he make straight his reckless path.
I hope Keith learns from this that great talent is never an excuse for abandoning one's ordinary human responsibilities. Ever.
And that everyone else takes advantage of a golden opportunity to practice forgiveness and tolerance. Let the one who has never acted the coward, never lied, never cheated in the game of life, throw the first pattern book.
His punishment has been meted.
A further ounce of flesh is not necessary.
~Holster's Ghost
Fantastic post.
L i m a B e a n
Well, Fantome, I think you might need to consider the possibility that Keith lied about never using the pattern books or the internet etc. Heaven knows he sure didn't make a practice of telling the truth before. I'll bet if you could look into his background, you'd find that he's lied and manipulated people all his life and got away with it because he can talk up a storm and because he's charming--and GOOD LOOKING . I think the whole thing is sad, REALLY sad. But like I said in a previous post, he cheated someone who would have showed integrity out of a spot on the show. We have to consider who might not have been kicked off if Keith had played by the rules. You're right-he did show lack of self-esteem and cowardice, but that in no way justifies what he did. I think he thought he could get away with it, don't you? I wonder if this is just the tip of the iceberg of what he did or didn't do. And yes, I totally agree that Tim Gunn handled it like a pro--a pro with integrity. Keith needs to follow Tim's example.
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wow. you guys are soooo . . . i dont even know the word.
i totally stick up for keith 100 percent. he handled this whole competition exactly the way i would. i think he is a very independent guy. he knows he has talent he knooows how to use it. i think most people are scared of him. thats all just scared. no one will even admit it. hes gonna make somethin of himself. you just wait.
you cant fully know someone just by watching a reality tv show. all you can judge is the finished product. and every one i saw that belonged to him looked perfect. from there is where i draw my conclusion that he is the best on that show. my favorite.
I completely agree. As a designer, Keith is extremely talented, and that's what this competition was meant to display. Personally, I think Tim Gunn is spot on, when he said that the pattern books were representing more Keith's insecurities as a women's wear designer than actually helping him out in anyway. He clearly could not have used them in the challenges, since all the designs were drawn and constructed in the work room, and often is teams.
It might be worth asking, if his attitude is really a front for hidden insecurities. It's often the case when people present a false bravado to an audience.
In anycase, given credit, where it is due, Keith is an exceptional designer and craftsman, and hopefully he'll be sucessful. Also, I'd advice him to see a shrink and work out his issues.
what next week might be --i was thinking more like miss piggy or something lol like i said i had a lot of project punch- update miss pig's look - probably not though guess i'm thinking toys after the barbie challenge-- surely it wouldn't be barbie again especially since robert worked for mattel--
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Why are people bashing Kayne? So what if he told on Keith he was cheating! It’s a competition for goodness sake! It doesn’t make a difference if he used the books or not he knew what he was doing. I would have been the first one to turn him in because why should he even be able to have an unfair advantage over the others. If you want to blame someone blame fricken Keith. He would have gotten caught eventually!
It reminds me so much of the Shoe Scandal of Season one in which Kara Saun has those shoes custom made and the others didn’t have the same resource. That in it’s self sets the precedence. No unfair advantage. Besides I was thinking that if the Internet disappearance thing didn’t get him then the discount would for the same principle as the books.
Kayne is still adorable! Ever since the Miss Universe challenge I always picture him with a little tiara on and an arm of roses! He’s got the perfect “World Peace” smiles LOL! As for Bonnie going home was disappointed because I really liked her initial design but the color and eventual style was yuck! (I would still wear the brown granny pants over the butt crack showing skirt ROFL! What the hell happened there! If the majority of the team wasn’t gay males I’d say they were looking for some…I’m sure you get the point! Lucky Barbie isn’t anatomically correct!)
Bring back Michael Cors! The Vera Wang thing just sucks. The judges sound bites this season are going to suck unless Michael comes back! How many times can you hear Nina say how not pleasing something is and Vera Wang say it’s modern or wtf, blah, blah, blah…yawn! If it weren’t for Heidi and Tim I’d say forget the commentary all together.
Just my opinion!
I agree on Kayne. He never should have been put in that position. The blame rests with Keith who ironically attempted to scapegoat the others in addressing his own bad behavior.
I totally agree.
After watching this episode, how I wish for the return of last season's lingerie episode where Santino made us think about fashion.Where is the originality and creativity that Project Runway is capable of developing? I am a Project Runway devotee since day one and unfortunately this season has produced mediocrity. The fashions from these episodes come across as ordinary. They lack creativity because of how the judges are responding as well as how the challenges are set up. Every designer plays it safe except for Jeffery, who compared to Santino and Austin would be a dull bird. I would rather see a designer be rewarded for taking steps in high fashion than just ready wear that could be found in average department stores. These chosen designers should be wowing me, unfortunately they underwhelm me.
P.S. Best part of the series so far...Tim holding on to the leashes of all those dogs in Central Park.... Priceless
P.S. Best part of the series so far...Tim holding on to the leashes of all those dogs in Central Park.... Priceless
I agree, Kayne could have given Keith the opportunity to give himself up before ratting him out. If refused to come forward, then I would have said something.
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... it's laughable for Tim Gunn to say the show has standards. What standards did Kara Saun live up to in Season 1? She totally cheated. She got custom made shoes from vendors in return for publicity. And that was totally against the contract. Then she got the vendor to lie about the cost of the shoes. So, she cheated and lied. How then did she finish second? I remember how the judges oohed and aahed over the "details" of her designs, how she put so much thought into them. And they supposedly were told that they weren't allowed to judge based on the shoes. She also "borrowed" design elements from Gucci. So, she cheated, lied and stole designs. Some standards, Project Runway. Let's have some consistency and integrity here.
Yes, I remember that finale. What I remember was feeling that the PR producers were trying to walk a fine line in enforcing rules while also honoring someone's clear talent. I suspect that the difficulty of how to discipline the cheater was particularly difficult because it was the finale.
But I also suspect that Heidi, Tim, and their team learned some lessons from that experience and decided that they needed to be more forceful in enforcing the rules to keep similar fiascos from happening again.
Just as I think the PR producers learned from their season 1 mistake re enforcing rules, I hope that Keith learns from his season 3 mistake re breaking rules. Such a clear talent can easily be a big winner in his career without relying on scheming and dishonesty.
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I also respect that Kayne and Vincent didn't sell out Robert when they had the chance.
Hmmm... All though I think its great that they didn't sell out Robert, they didn't have any issues selling out keith.. which is wrong. It shows that they don't have the guts to tell the judges what their real opinion is
I think Vincent learned a big lesson from his fiasco with Angela. You have to work with the team leaders vision and do what they have in mind. I think he tried to convince Robert that it was blah but, as much as I love Robert, he just wasn't listening.
hi stevenvs welcome back to the boards- i agree with your comments - and waving to all the newbies- this episode is def. bringing people out of the woodwork to talk about it-- people seem to be passionate about either being on kayne's side or keith's--
Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:Quote:That my dear is what being a team player is all about. You may not have liked the idea concept of the design but you're doing as told to do. I definitely think that Angela was a good team leader because she listen and knew that she had a great team that would rise her to victory, in which she did. I know that the design was good for some one in their 20's and of average size and height. But as for me no way. They don't think about us "over achievers".Quote:
I am fortified with a lethal combo of sharpie scent and PR punch...and just so that I don't get my hand slapped (hmmm on second thought...) i believe those who diss poof-skirted Angie must remember that her own TEAM MATES were not so grudgingly supportive of her...shocked, perhaps, but still supportive...
I agree completely about kara saun. I was just trying to post that same thing. I was furious when they let her get away with the models wearing the shoes but not being judged on them. how can a judge not take into account the shoes. that was against the rules but she was not kicked off. She thought she was above the rules as well.
I am not saying Keith should have pattern books or gone on the internet but it seems to me that with cameras on all the time that the producers already knew what Keith was up to. It is not as though the books were hidden.
It was stupid. I don't blame Kayne. He did what anyone of us would do, talk about it with everyone in the room and get their advice on how to proceed. I feel they ought to have confronted Keith first but Kayne should not be singled out. They were all angry about it, they all wanted the situation corrected. I doubt they thought Keith was going to be sent home that night.
I do think that Keith was sorry about the whole thing. I know he is getting a lot of heat for his apology but no one in that room was willing to listen to him. He did something stupid, cooked his own goose, for the whole world to see. he was kicked off. Let the man say he is sorry. He is leaving, he is punished.
I understand that kind of anger. Even though justice is done you feel you need to rub it in a little harder. These designers are just people afterall.
Neither Keith nor Kayne are villians in my world.
Kara Saun is still a stuck up Diva.
And speaking of wacky- who is designing for Heidi? Its dreadful. Today's outfit with the little poofy black shorts with her heels. I felt she was in no place to judge anyone on what they are wearing.
On the note of BONNIE VS ROBERT...well, Robert designed for Barbie and I love her. So, I am glad to see Robert stay, though his design was dull. I think if it were just him and Kayne it would have been fine but I sensed that maybe he couldn't admit he was wrong or change his concept with VINCENT.
Bonnie- I LOVED her outfit. I mean, I WOULD wear it...which means complete fashion backwards not to mention for the PLUS SIZES. Anytime I see myself in one of the designs I know it is up on the chopping block.
Angela's design worked because of Michael and Laura. IF you think of her sketch what she ended up with was much classier than anything she could come up with.
I also liked Keith's design but not as much. Angela's Team deserved to win but it had little to do with Angela.
That's all for now.
I am not saying Keith should have pattern books or gone on the internet but it seems to me that with cameras on all the time that the producers already knew what Keith was up to. It is not as though the books were hidden.
It was stupid. I don't blame Kayne. He did what anyone of us would do, talk about it with everyone in the room and get their advice on how to proceed. I feel they ought to have confronted Keith first but Kayne should not be singled out. They were all angry about it, they all wanted the situation corrected. I doubt they thought Keith was going to be sent home that night.
I do think that Keith was sorry about the whole thing. I know he is getting a lot of heat for his apology but no one in that room was willing to listen to him. He did something stupid, cooked his own goose, for the whole world to see. he was kicked off. Let the man say he is sorry. He is leaving, he is punished.
I understand that kind of anger. Even though justice is done you feel you need to rub it in a little harder. These designers are just people afterall.
Neither Keith nor Kayne are villians in my world.
Kara Saun is still a stuck up Diva.
And speaking of wacky- who is designing for Heidi? Its dreadful. Today's outfit with the little poofy black shorts with her heels. I felt she was in no place to judge anyone on what they are wearing.
On the note of BONNIE VS ROBERT...well, Robert designed for Barbie and I love her. So, I am glad to see Robert stay, though his design was dull. I think if it were just him and Kayne it would have been fine but I sensed that maybe he couldn't admit he was wrong or change his concept with VINCENT.
Bonnie- I LOVED her outfit. I mean, I WOULD wear it...which means complete fashion backwards not to mention for the PLUS SIZES. Anytime I see myself in one of the designs I know it is up on the chopping block.
Angela's design worked because of Michael and Laura. IF you think of her sketch what she ended up with was much classier than anything she could come up with.
I also liked Keith's design but not as much. Angela's Team deserved to win but it had little to do with Angela.
That's all for now.
I have been flipping back and forth between this board and the TWOP board and someone over there says this episode should be called the
"Katyne Mutiny"
I like that!
It's been a good night, Keith the lying , cheating, arrogant has been sent home. And Bonnie is gone.
Now , I would like to see Uli and Vincent find their way to their homes.
"Katyne Mutiny"
I like that!
It's been a good night, Keith the lying , cheating, arrogant has been sent home. And Bonnie is gone.
Now , I would like to see Uli and Vincent find their way to their homes.
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Well, Angela is a good team leader. She knows how to pick her staff. If she picked anyone else, she wouldn't have won. She has a very domineering personality and only Laura could reign her in. And actually, I hate to say it, the rosettes looked cute on the jacket. It was a bit much on the pants, but the jacket was great.
Two things I've learned over the years are that even the most incompetent, uncreative people will occasionally hit a home run and that even the most competent, creative people will occasionally strike out.
Angela (or at least her team) hit a home run tonight, but her overall batting average will remain terrible and she will eventually be benched. Robert struck out tonight, but he's still in the running for home-run king.
And, to continue this analogy, I can't resist the temptation to note that the Barry Bonds of PR3 got his due tonight for all his steroid use. I'll never understand why truly talented people who could be home run kings in their own right -- whether in baseball, design, or whatever -- feel the need to use artificial stimulants to "improve" their performance.
I love you! As big a St. Louis Cardinals fan as I am...and as much as I loved McGwire/Sosa in 1998, I agree. When you have that much talent...WHY CHEAT??????
Just insecurities I guess.
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Just remember the sanctimonious attitude of Kayne is a true sign of hypocracy, because he "killed off" someone he couldn't beat on the runway over a technicality that probably had no bearing on the competition. How is that good sportsmanship? The show will be poorer for Keith's absense. And I might stop watching alltogether because the the bummer vibe cast upon the whole proceedings by this manipulative and silly redhead prom dresser.
After this episode, I hope they start giving out an annual "Mark of Kayne" award for the most ruthless player.
Who was the really ruthless person on this show? The arrogant one who constantly cheated, alienated everyone in the hopes of rattling them, and thought he was above the rules? (All the guys agreed that the rules were made very clear to everyone.) And who thinks Kayne could not beat Keith in design? Both had won a challenge, so in my book they were even in talent. To me, it was very evident that Keith did not understand rules when he was upset he did not win the dog challenge.
I agree. The most ruthless person--the end justifies the means person--was Keith.
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mmm....Project Runway...West Point...that HAS to be one of the most fascinating analogies I've seen posted on here...well done!!
Don't ask...don't tell is both of their mottos!
I can't see that this will harm Keith's career too much. When some thought he had plagarized someone else's designs I thought his career would be over. I didn't care for him much as a person, but he seemed to be a good designer and have good taste.
I thought this was about who was the best fashion designer. Not about someone snooping around in someone's room to find something they could use against them. So, Kayne is a snoop, a rat and a coward. I believe his reputation will be dirtied more than Keith's by this incident.
I think Keith will be designing in New York long after Kayne has gone home to Norman, Oklahoma to design pageant dresses for Little Miss Oklahoma.
I thought this was about who was the best fashion designer. Not about someone snooping around in someone's room to find something they could use against them. So, Kayne is a snoop, a rat and a coward. I believe his reputation will be dirtied more than Keith's by this incident.
I think Keith will be designing in New York long after Kayne has gone home to Norman, Oklahoma to design pageant dresses for Little Miss Oklahoma.
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kieth is very manipulating...Instead of realizing that HE was wrong by even bringing the books ...regardless IF he used them or not he says "my reputation is tarnished and im going to be the laughing stock of all my friends" Like it's YOUR fault for telling that's why im bing kicked out!!!???...OK..Is THAT what you are worried about??? Maybe you should THINK before you act like such a victim...from YOUR own circumstance! VERY SAD. Keith YOU have a lot to learn!It's NOT always about YOU!!!! Sometimes rules are NOT meant to be broken...not here or anywhere else where it truly matters...TREAT OTHERS AS YOU EXPECT TO BE TREATED! You will NEVER gain from cutting corners or even with the INTENTION of it ("the sad thing is that i never even used or opened the books") It's called KARMA...It ALWAYS comes back to bite ya in the ass!!! Any lessons learned here class????
And then those absurd comments on people having to have a 'scapegoat'? PULEEEEZE!
I have to wait until the episode is rerun to get all the dirty details, though. Just as TG walked into the apartment, we had a severe weather alert signal broadcast and cut out all the audio! ARGHHH!
Thank goodness for repeats.....
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Well, Fantome, I think you might need to consider the possibility that Keith lied about never using the pattern books or the internet etc. Heaven knows he sure didn't make a practice of telling the truth before. I'll bet if you could look into his background, you'd find that he's lied and manipulated people all his life and got away with it because he can talk up a storm and because he's charming--and GOOD LOOKING . I think the whole thing is sad, REALLY sad. But like I said in a previous post, he cheated someone who would have showed integrity out of a spot on the show. We have to consider who might not have been kicked off if Keith had played by the rules. You're right-he did show lack of self-esteem and cowardice, but that in no way justifies what he did. I think he thought he could get away with it, don't you? I wonder if this is just the tip of the iceberg of what he did or didn't do. And yes, I totally agree that Tim Gunn handled it like a pro--a pro with integrity. Keith needs to follow Tim's example.
Darlin, Never said it justified his behavior, just explained it. I completely agree with you about his past...no one acts out of the blue like that..we all have left a history of choices that one day results in something like this (or its reverse...an act of great sacrifice and love) ....finally, someone called him on it and showed him that his actions have consequences. His real mommy was obviously too good to him...in the Ma Barker gestalt of mommyhood.
Let's not throw fits where there are no hissies between us, K?
(said affectionately)
~Tom's Fan (Phantom.....yuk, yuk)
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