Ghost_of_Holster
August 3, 2006 - 07:46 AM
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Oh gosh, Keith gay? So his grabbing Miss USA's boobs was strictly to assess proper fit?
ew! now if he were of the hetero persuasion, that would be shiver-yucky. Ew!
FoodFanOne
August 3, 2006 - 07:47 AM
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I'm new to the boards, I usually just like to read the responses after each show, but this Keith/Kayne thing has moved me to post on the boards for the first time.
First, I have zero patience for people that break rules, blatently break rules that they've agreed on. Whether we think that the pattern book rule is dumb or not representative of the real world doesn't matter. The designers were told the rules, they signed a contract, and if Keith was caught breaking a rule of that contract, he should go...period, end of story, buh-bye. Yes, he may be talented, yes he may not have looked at the books at all. If he's so talented, why have the books at all, knowing that they were a breach of contract? If he's so talented, why risk getting sent home on such a lame piece of BS like that? He may be talented, but he was a fool for going down over something that lame and this industry doesn't suffer fools.
And in what twisted version of the world is Kayne a sneaking, ruthless, whiny, rat? He saw someone breaking breaking rules in a contest that a seriously big deal, and he reported it. How does that make him a whiny rat? It's not as if he planted the books. And it's not as if he was reporting something that wasn't a contract breaking infraction. Had Keith not had them to begin with, there wouldn't have been a problem. Yes, he could have talked to Keith before going to the producers, but that doesn't make him wrong to go to them in the first place. It's totally possible that Keith (showing himself as the untrustworthy person that he is), may have gotten rid of the books and just claim that he never had them to begin with. And the whole thing about Kayne trying to "bump off" someone more talented than he was....pul-lese! Like I said earlier, he didn't plant the books and had Keith not been dumb enough to have them, there wouldn't have been any need for Kayne to go to the producers. And don't forget that they both won a challenge, so if anything they are on equal footing. Keith brought this on himself....don't go blaming Kayne for Keith's stupidity.
I too thought that Keith had some really great designs, and I too think that he's talented. But if he's not confident enough to rely solely on his talent and he feels he need to break the rules to win, then the show is better off without him.
Well said. An extraordinary post. Welcome to the board and have some "Project Punch."
LisaSabatier
August 3, 2006 - 07:49 AM
Hey FF1 I am so glad to see you!
khsr109
August 3, 2006 - 07:50 AM
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Don't know about the rest of you, but were I competing for a team leader spot in one of these group challeges, I would really hope my design "wasn't" picked. My reasoning is that one team leader is about about 100% sure to be kicked off, where as the helpers are safe. So to my way of thinking, you have 13/12 people competing, but only 4 of those folks are actually in any real jeopardy of being auffed.
Thoughts? . . . . .
I remember last season that Choe said something like she wasn't ready to be team leader--she could see what you said, too. I just have to say that I really don't like the group challenges. They unfairly target the group leaders, they don't reflect the real world where people work together to make a business a success not against each other, and they don't let us see individual talent. They just stir up hate and discontent, which, I suppose, is good tv...
Ghost_of_Holster
August 3, 2006 - 07:51 AM
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Maybe - just maybe- if Keith had brought along a book of Clothes Designs for Doggies he might have been able to scethch out something to actually complete is assignament. Oh
Stop at once! I am having too much fun reading your posts, and I absolutely must get something done today, (unlike yesterday).
Actually I heard he also had a Betsy McCall paper doll collection in his shaving kit. Unfortunately, the humidity of the steamy bathroom disintegrated them. Wht they didn't pull his fingernails for that infraction I'll never know.
~GofH
You? What about me? My desktop is a mountain of untouched mail, bills, jobs, etc etc. The heat has made me a prisoner of Project Run Away Mouth.
My kngdom for an attention span!!!
~GofH
LisaSabatier
August 3, 2006 - 07:51 AM
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Maybe - just maybe- if Keith had brought along a book of Clothes Designs for Doggies he might have been able to scethch out something to actually complete is assignament. Oh
Stop at once! I am having too much fun reading your posts, and I absolutely must get something done today, (unlike yesterday).
Actually I heard he also had a Betsy McCall paper doll collection in his shaving kit. Unfortunately, the humidity of the steamy bathroom disintegrated them. Wht they didn't pull his fingernails for that infraction I'll never know.
~GofH
Oh sh*t, I got that spacing totally screwed up, but G of H, I mean you....you are a corrupting influence, you are a very. bad. boy.
SisterZip73
August 3, 2006 - 07:53 AM
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Quelle surprise!
Not that Keith got ousted - justifiably so, it seems to me after having had the rules and their rationale explained in Tim's blog - but that ROBERT and to a lesser extent Bonnie, did such underwhelming ensembles! Will have to re-view (yes, I'm a junkie - watch each episode as often as I can) to see Robert's sketch but Bonnie's finished product looked nothing like the sketch that so wowed Mehmet. Bummer.
Thought the Alison/Jeffrey effort (bless their brave little hearts) could have benefitted from a sleeker pant leg - the bottom detailing destroyed the line and took away from the "hanging straps" top. (Is the point system used by the judges explained somewhere? I wanna be in the know.) Coat is GORGEOUS. Those are definitely well-coordinated pieces that could be boght separately.
Somehow, the briefly shown Macy's window display of Angela's great looking outfit seemed different to the runway model. Am I wrong?
I think the runway lights are much brighter and change the look of things. the top looked almost beige on the runway but in the window it looked pink.
justklutzyjenn
August 3, 2006 - 07:53 AM
First, PR is my guilty pleasure. I have seen last night's episode 3 times. I'm addicted. I adore Tim!!
It's a competition! Kayne had ever right to make the Fashion books well known to the producers of the show. Keith, had what was coming to him and it smacked him in the face when Tim got word and then was kicked off the show.
He should be the laughing stock of his friends. Having probably no career in fashion atleast for a year or so, when no one remembers his name or what he "looked at". He broke the rules and rules are rules. They're not Keith's rules, but PR's rules. I hated that he got cocky at the end of Tim's visit and started blaming other people for his problem. If I was on that show and knew someone had those kinds of books, I would out them in a heartbeat. It's a competition. One less person for you to worry about taking the top spot and getting in your way.
Same with Angela. If I was elected team captain with first choice, I would too pick 2 other people who I personally thought had better taste and skills than I did. You need to win on this show. She won. I liked her outfit, but I personally don't like short jackets like that on me. It gave her hope that Michael (who I think hasn't gotten any coverage on this show whatso ever) and Laura would look at her differently, instead of a designer of a colorful bag of Skittles, as Keith has said in the past of her last outfit.
I also noticed that the Elle magazine judge, I forgot her name, she's just not that importnant to me, unlike Vera Wang. She didn't say anything about Angela's design cause she saw who she worked with. She is always picking on Angela, not until she was one of the top two did that bitty open her mouth then praised it. **Open mouth insert foot.**
I love this show, it's a competition and I have 3 favorites. Laura, Michael and Uli. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I enjoy reading what other people think even if I think different.
Thanks PR for a great season so far!!
khsr109
August 3, 2006 - 07:57 AM
Since Keith was booted, why did we have to have anyone lose? Couldn't they have had a losing outfit, but then say no one had to leave? Haven't they done away with one episode this way? (I really hated that Bonnie had to go, but, as I've said over and over, I hate team challenges anyway.)
hoopoe
August 3, 2006 - 08:00 AM
Oh, I am so addicted to PR...I happily sat in front of the tube from 7pm to 11pm watching all four PR episodes...I may need a 12-step program!
Love Laura and MIchael working together, and I am so glad that they tamed the rosettes in last night's episode!
double_l
August 3, 2006 - 08:01 AM
Has anyone else wondered why Michael is so under the radar from an editing perspective? On both of the team challenges, he was the first one picked. His designs are consistently innovative and beautiful, and he is a laid-back, honest and grounded guy - refreshing for this show! Yet it seems like he's barely had 5 minutes of air time all season. He's definitely my pick for the top 3, I just hope we can see more of him before then!
Carole
August 3, 2006 - 08:09 AM
Getting with the gang and gossiping (on camera,no less) instead of being the up-front kind of man he shoulda been seems the easy way out to me.Remember,he related his tale at two different times,once to Vincent,and then to the other guys to get the group consensus,instead of just talking to Keith and letting Keith have the op to allow Keith take the rap himself. The easy way out.And have been to Wyoming,beautiful,but always loved the city muself.Perhaps it's made me harsh.
Actually it is my understanding, from Keith's "exit interview" that perhaps Kayne did NOT initiate the "outing". Vincent may have. Jeffrey and Vincent were Keith's roommates, not Robert and Kayne (they were rooming with Malan, remember.) So I think it was Vincent who first saw the books and reported this to Kayne and Robert. I know that Robert likes and protects Vincent because I read an interview of Robert's. Kayne and Robert and Vincent and Michael talked it over and decided that it was not their decision, they had to take it to the producers.
justklutzyjenn
August 3, 2006 - 08:09 AM
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Has anyone else wondered why Michael is so under the radar from an editing perspective? On both of the team challenges, he was the first one picked. His designs are consistently innovative and beautiful, and he is a laid-back, honest and grounded guy - refreshing for this show! Yet it seems like he's barely had 5 minutes of air time all season. He's definitely my pick for the top 3, I just hope we can see more of him before then!
I wouldn't be suprised if he is the winner! Or one of the top two left. He is outstanding and if I personally knew him I would be knocking on his door to make dresses/outfits for me all the time. He is AWESOME!!
maxximo
August 3, 2006 - 08:11 AM
Ah Ghost. One of those people who feels the need to express their disdain for what they themselves are actually doing. A snarky remark for everyones posts, another person who confuses sarcasm for cleverness. Pointing out over and over how silly we peons are for taking this to seriously. Yet finds the time to take a break from their rich cultural and intellectual life to also leave 25 posts on the same subject in one day.
Off to Cosi for smores and a mochafrapacchinosoylatteexpressodecaffe ICED please.
Ciao all. The Big apple is slightly less sizzling today. I may brave the tourists to see Macy's window or at least do a drive by.
By the way. All the posters complaining about the rosettes. Are you forgetting this a country where the Quacker Factory woman with the headband has the worlds most god awful cothes you have ever seen covered with every embellishment known to man and moves MILLIONS of units a month. Nothing like a 3X covered in duck buttons, cow patches, geese embroidered sleeves, a little barn border and some rick rack horse trim for good measure. Angela may just be the only one on to something commercial. Middle america may be lining up to buy the last available wacky rosette covered tunic available in teal and orange hosted by TV gal and Angela sooner then you think.
FoodFanOne
August 3, 2006 - 08:12 AM
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University students' cheating is also what came to my mind watching this episode. Cheaters devalue the achievement of all the honest students who may have worked very hard. And the bad reputation of the school and students this produces hurts all the good students and the professors. Cheaters have nothing but disrespect for their colleagues and instructors, and they're happy to pollute the integrity of every institution they belong to.
We have an epidemic of cheating in our society: look at the politicians and campaign managers, the hordes of plagiarizers and fabricators in journalism and academia (don't get me started on Ward Churchill....), dopers in sports including the Olympics, and schools from elementary school to graduate school are infested with cheaters. I had ten times more cheaters last semester than in any previous semester. It's really scary to think that cheating and lying are beginning to seem acceptable--or at least not so bad, especially if
people in the news and the public eye, especially in popular culture are doing it and getting away with it.
This can only be stopped if people stop tolerating dishonesty. So I am very glad to see Keith with his habitual rule-breaking and cheating expelled from Project Runway--not auf'ed but expelled. It's only fair to the other designers, the judges, Tim, and the viewers. And it is very important to keep the standards of honesty and integrity high: that's what trust is based on. Should the rest of Keith's team have been penalized because his name was on the main design? NO--because they had no part in this. And they were penalized since they had to complete the work of a team of three with no leader and only two team members. They "carried on" admirably. I sincerely hope that they were not passed over by the judges because of Keith (that is, Keith's "name" on their outfit). That would be terrible. I'd like to see Alison especially get her due recognition.
Once again, an outstanding post. You hit the nail right on the head. The core issue here is integrity. I for one applaud the producers for upholding the integrity of the show and setting a shining example in these murky waters today.
Also, I think that the judges were being very careful not to tar Bonnie and Jeffrey with their distaste for Keith's actions. They genuinely liked the outfit, particularly the pants. Perhaps the love handles did it in. I do think Angela's team produced a more universally appealing outfit, even despite the shortie jacket with the rosettes.
Carole
August 3, 2006 - 08:13 AM
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Laura and Michael saved Angela's butt. Her 'rosettes' are all ready dated.
I agree with the fact that the winners of this challenge were Laura and Michael, most definitely. Just putting up with and taming Angela should be worth immunity for them both.
But by stating rosettes as being dated--I'm trying to figure out when throw pillows and granny quilt rosettes were EVER a fashion statement.
No one ever replied to my post that Yves Saint Laurent is using rosettes in his fall collection. I am NOT kidding.
love2paint
August 3, 2006 - 08:13 AM
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but I don't think anyone here comes out smelling like a rose.
... or a rosette, LOL.
justklutzyjenn
August 3, 2006 - 08:16 AM
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Getting with the gang and gossiping (on camera,no less) instead of being the up-front kind of man he shoulda been seems the easy way out to me.Remember,he related his tale at two different times,once to Vincent,and then to the other guys to get the group consensus,instead of just talking to Keith and letting Keith have the op to allow Keith take the rap himself. The easy way out.And have been to Wyoming,beautiful,but always loved the city muself.Perhaps it's made me harsh.
Actually it is my understanding, from Keith's "exit interview" that perhaps Kayne did NOT initiate the "outing". Vincent may have. Jeffrey and Vincent were Keith's roommates, not Robert and Kayne (they were rooming with Malan, remember.) So I think it was Vincent who first saw the books and reported this to Kayne and Robert. I know that Robert likes and protects Vincent because I read an interview of Robert's. Kayne and Robert and Vincent and Michael talked it over and decided that it was not their decision, they had to take it to the producers.
I wouldn't be suprised if no one had to say anything. The camera crew saw it and got pictures of the books under Keith's bed. That's all they really need. Proof over word of mouth. Solid proof!
I'm sure the camera crew is directed to look for things that could get people in trouble or just keep an eye out if anything thing seems shady... ie; KEITH!!
Who really knows who said what, all Tim and the producers needed to do was look at the tape and the truth is revealed.
P.S. I don't know if anyone brought this up from the last episode, but I too would have loved to have seen Keith get busted on saying he made several outfits for the dog, and Ms. Trump saying she wished she could get the tapes and see if he really did. I wished they could have stopped the juding and watch tapes and see no outfits being made. He would have lost face with all the judges for lying to them. That alone would have sold him down river, regardless of his designs.
gracehatter
August 3, 2006 - 08:18 AM
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Angela claims those are her signature design. My daughter was making them little things when she was in girl scouts and she is 24yrs old now.
I've been waiting for someone to bring this up because when I was kid (born in Ohio and transplated to Michigan, that is to say Midwestern) a very popular bazaar, state fair, 4H, church sales crafts were this same or very similar type of rosette made into dolls, quilts, tablecloths and so on. I learned to make them probably at about age 10 and I believe it is called Yo-Yo quiting and dates back to the 1920's and it would seem the craft endures. If you goggle the terms Yo-Yo quilting and history you'll see.
In all fairness to her, those no reason why Angela can't claim them as her "signature" piece, she did admit she was obsessed with them.
SHELBYbytheSEA
August 3, 2006 - 08:19 AM
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By the way. All the posters complaining about the rosettes, Are you forgetting about the Quacker Factory...Nothing like a 3X covered in duck buttons, cow patches, geese embroidered sleeves, a little barn border and some rick rack horse trim for good measure.
Beautiful!!!
justklutzyjenn
August 3, 2006 - 08:21 AM
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Angela claims those are her signature design. My daughter was making them little things when she was in girl scouts and she is 24yrs old now.
I've been waiting for someone to bring this up because when I was kid (born in Ohio and transplated to Michigan, that is to say Midwestern) a very popular bazaar, state fair, 4H, church sales crafts were this same or very similar type of rosette made into dolls, quilts, tablecloths and so on. I learned to make them probably at about age 10 and I believe it is called Yo-Yo quiting and dates back to the 1920's and it would seem the craft endures. If you goggle the terms Yo-Yo quilting and history you'll see.
In all fairness to her, those no reason why Angela can't claim them as her "signature" piece, she did admit she was obsessed with them.
All during last nights episode I was screaming at the tv everytime Angela said "rosette" I said "yo-yo".
Ghost_of_Holster
August 3, 2006 - 08:23 AM
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Ah Ghost. One of those people who feels the need to express their disdain for what they themselves are actually doing. A snarky remark for everyones posts, another person who confuses sarcasm for cleverness. Pointing out over and over how silly we peons are for taking this to seriously. Yet finds the time to take a break from their rich cultural and intellectual life to also leave 25 posts on the same subject in one day.
Too true, O Lady of Torquemada. It is our weaknesses which give us our compassion. Our character defects our understanding. Iconfess. I too am a sinner. Most loathesome in thine eyes. I aspire to your lofty estate.
mea culpsa. mea culpa, mea maxfactor culpa.
~GofH
Carole
August 3, 2006 - 08:26 AM
Brillke, I am not taking a shot at people because they have some typos at 1 am. But I am taking a shot at people who are shooting Kayne down because he's from Oklahoma. How many times do I have to say that Kayne was NOT Keith's roommate, Vincent was? Vincent is not getting any potshots here because he went to Kayne and Robert for guidance. Everyone is jumping on Kayne with personal remarks when I don't think Kayne deserves it. We are all aware of how these episodes are cut and recut and don't really show how everything goes down. In fact, they often show just the opposite. So it burns me up when everyone flocks like lemmings to blame Kayne. Ok, ok, so I went to school in Oklahoma and love the people there.
designer212
August 3, 2006 - 08:27 AM
I am greatly annoyed that Angela reaps the benefits of Laura and Michaels great work. While it may make for good drama Project Runway and the judging is now losing credibility in my eyes.
How consistant on this episode that Keith is asked to leave for nefarious behavior, I believe now the judging and/or the process of elimination is suspect as well.
Angela should have left awhile ago and Malan should still be competing.
Keith? Why on earth was he so arrogant? Could it be that in the past episodes when designers " Played the production" as Jay said, they garnered more attention?
Keith made a serious mistake. What a shame we won't get to see a whole collection.
I was hoping final 3 would have been Keith , Laura and Michael.
Angela does NOT deserve credit for the Macy's challenge.
She didn't even have a palette before Laura coaxed her to find one.
Ghost_of_Holster
August 3, 2006 - 08:31 AM
Keith's design looks somewhat a cross between the sperm in "Bananas" and the cocky boys in "Clockwork Orange."
Perhaps he was surfing the Rotten Tomoatoes costume database?
A malicious mendacious Mackie-minor indeed.
Rosebud66
August 3, 2006 - 08:31 AM
I agree with you completly Carole.
I latched on to say you've GOT to see the preview episode for next week. I'm dumfounded, it can't be, not that wonderful woman going to.....................OH NO!
CacaoBear
August 3, 2006 - 08:33 AM
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It's a very appropriate episode title, don't you think? Discuss this week's "scandaliciousness" here!
The One I Feel Sorry For Is .....
Bonnie.
I mean, here she gets auf'd, and Keith is the one who's exit video is all over Bravo's homepage! She doesn't even get to "bask" in her one week of 72-point, banner-headline, screaming, flashing, blinking, winking, linking Exit Interview GLORY!
More than ever, she is "Bonnie, who?"
whatasmartpuppy
August 3, 2006 - 08:35 AM
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I am greatly annoyed that Angela reaps the benefits of Laura and Michaels great work. While it may make for good drama Project Runway and the judging is now losing credibility in my eyes.
As I said a bit back:
I know many people think Angela relied far too much on Michael and Laura's talents to win this competition, but if you have ever worked in a design studio (which I have for 25 years), not one thing leaves without the creative or technical input of at least one other person. My boss is a success because she chooses well the people around her - the people that technically can bring an idea to fruition and can also inspire one another to take an initial design to a higher level. It's what we do and it is really what makes our jobs fun. Good design is about good teamwork and leadership.
Just my view.
hoopoe
August 3, 2006 - 08:36 AM
OHMYGAWD! Does this mean that Angela is actually fashion forward....rosettes in YSL's collection? Mon Dieu!
designer212
August 3, 2006 - 08:37 AM
I oh so agree... they have such amazing synergy. I was also thinking they would make great business partners.
SHELBYbytheSEA
August 3, 2006 - 08:37 AM
If there are people out there who are truly incensed that Kayne narked out Keith then there is something seriously wrong here. I for one feel there are too many people who feel that rules were made to be broken…or just slightly bent at first and then broken.
A lie is a lie is a lie; there is no little white lie. It is either a lie or a truth. So some people liked Keith better and are now taking shots at Kayne. So the determining factor of someone following the rules is if he is well liked then they don't have too. This person reads the rules and determines for themselves what they will or will not do. Come on. It shouldn’t matter if a person is well liked or not. It is about personal integrity and whether that individual has it or not.
NewObserver
August 3, 2006 - 08:38 AM
Maybe this has been addressed already, but if Keith was kicked off for not following the rules, why wasn't Kara Saun eliminated in the first season finale for cheating with her shoes?
bcuzimbrad
August 3, 2006 - 08:40 AM
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The whole thing makes me think of a boarding school, with a kid not allowed to have his teddy bear during a test. Come on, in the age of the Internet and information everywhere, how much can pattern books or whatever help? ... In the real world, running to a book probably isn't going to help... step up and make more realistic rules.
I'm familiar with the books Keith had in his room, and their content is quite useful. In fact, most professional shops own and use these and others for reference all the time. Books like this are primarily used as a guide to the various approaches to the patterning and construction of a garment -- as opposed to using them strictly for design ideas.
They contain step-by-step guidelines and formulas on how to flat-pattern a perfect two-part sleeve in a tailored jacket, for instance, how to make a welt pocket, or how to put in an invisible zipper beautifully, etc. Yes, these are skills that tailors, drapers, patternmakers and formally-trained designers should have experience with, but in fact many -- not all -- fashion designers have limited experience building garments themselves -- at least building them properly. A quick-reference guide like this can certainly come in handy, and it makes perfect sense to know that these books are not allowed.
At this level of competition, this is a way of weeding out those who really understand the whole process, not just how to design and sketch, but also how to BUILD a beautiful garment.
What's unfortunate here is that Keith seemed to really understand BOTH good design AND quality construction -- and wouldn't necessarily have needed these books. Maybe he didn't use them. Who knows. Just having the books probably made him feel more comfortable, like having a security blanket, or rather, as you put it, sneaking in "...his teddy bear during a test." Sorry, no teddy bears allowed.
Jappy70
August 3, 2006 - 08:41 AM
I don't know if this has been posted yet or not, but in the departure video with Keith he said he left the building and went for a long walk because Vincent yelled at him and was upset about the books. I take it from this statement they did go to him before they went to the producers.
SHELBYbytheSEA
August 3, 2006 - 08:45 AM
As designer212 put it,
How consistant on this episode that Keith is asked to leave for nefarious behavior, I believe now the judging and/or the process of elimination is suspect as well.
designer212
August 3, 2006 - 08:46 AM
I will edit myself then.
In my opinion, Angela could not achieve much on her own merits. If she had the good judgement in business to choose great people to do her work ALL the time her reputation in any art would be diminished. Simply put, no one would want to work for her.
I still feel she does not deserve the recogniton for the win or the challenge. If credit was shared among the three I may recant.
The confidant nature of both Michael and Laura as a team enabled Angela here.
lisakaz
August 3, 2006 - 08:51 AM
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University students' cheating is also what came to my mind watching this episode. Cheaters devalue the achievement of all the honest students who may have worked very hard. And the bad reputation of the school and students this produces hurts all the good students and the professors. Cheaters have nothing but disrespect for their colleagues and instructors, and they're happy to pollute the integrity of every institution they belong to.
We have an epidemic of cheating in our society: look at the politicians and campaign managers, the hordes of plagiarizers and fabricators in journalism and academia (don't get me started on Ward Churchill....), dopers in sports including the Olympics, and schools from elementary school to graduate school are infested with cheaters. I had ten times more cheaters last semester than in any previous semester. It's really scary to think that cheating and lying are beginning to seem acceptable--or at least not so bad, especially if
people in the news and the public eye, especially in popular culture are doing it and getting away with it.
This can only be stopped if people stop tolerating dishonesty. So I am very glad to see Keith with his habitual rule-breaking and cheating expelled from Project Runway--not auf'ed but expelled. It's only fair to the other designers, the judges, Tim, and the viewers. And it is very important to keep the standards of honesty and integrity high: that's what trust is based on. Should the rest of Keith's team have been penalized because his name was on the main design? NO--because they had no part in this. And they were penalized since they had to complete the work of a team of three with no leader and only two team members. They "carried on" admirably. I sincerely hope that they were not passed over by the judges because of Keith (that is, Keith's "name" on their outfit). That would be terrible. I'd like to see Alison especially get her due recognition.
They may have passed it over. I don't know. But really it was Jeffrey/Alison's work. The weirder part would have been how do you deal with immunity? I'd say let both have it, since they had an obvious handicap.
I don't get this "cheating is okay" thing. I never saw a problem with it in the best place I taught. The thing that bugs me is it does disrespect the system AND it does cheapen the hard work of others. I would think this is a no-brainer. You violate the rules and you're gone. I now end up having to make this a speech the first day of class and it shouldn't even need to be said. It seems too many wanna coast. Where did it get started? Who puts up with this? I'm a working class kid from NJ who worked my way to a PhD. Heck, my father never went higher than the 6th grade. He had to work. These kids are so spoiled! I'm glad I don't have any because I'd be a royal hard--- if this is what passes in pop culture.
becko
August 3, 2006 - 08:51 AM
actually i disagree INC is ultra trendy and to me always looks to be made for the 0-4 range- my sister who is a size 2 wears it and looks amazing, but i know at a size 10/12 it is a bit much for me to wear sometimes- we just always know that's my skinny sister's look, so i think angela's outfit as much sa i hate to admit it will appeal to that market- ultra trendy for the cute tiny girl-- i for one will not be wearing a shrunken jacket of any kind this year - if i did i would at least leave the shirt out and not tuck it in lol
FoodFanOne
August 3, 2006 - 08:52 AM
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I am greatly annoyed that Angela reaps the benefits of Laura and Michaels great work. While it may make for good drama Project Runway and the judging is now losing credibility in my eyes.
Angela didn't just ride on their coattails here, much to everybody's surprise. Angela did the pants. And, she fitted them absolutely perfectly to the model. Yes, Michael and Laura practically SAT on her to keep her from putting rosettes all down the side seams and around the waistband and ruining the whole thing, but it is now clear that she can do a mean pair of slacks.
I'm wondering what other surprises she has in store for us. Perhaps she really did learn the virtues of minimal decorative touches from this challenge. Really hate to admit it, but she's beginning to actually intrigue me rather than just annoy the living daylights out of me.
Oh wow, did I really say that? Pass me more PR punch! (Urp.)
becko
August 3, 2006 - 08:55 AM
whatasmartpuppy
August 3, 2006 - 08:56 AM
No question that they were instrumental in her (in my view - their) win. Angela was a good manager, utilized talent, and treated them like professionals. You wouldn't believe how many times I have been handed a quick pencil sketch by an art director and told to make it so. The really good art directors work with me as the project goes on throwing back and forth our ideas. When the job is done, they acknowledge that this was a team effort even though they are listed as designer. The bad ones, just say "aren't I great". Usually the industry finds them out pretty quickly when their assistants quit from lack of respect and recognition.
lisakaz
August 3, 2006 - 08:58 AM
Keith broke several rules not just one. And clearly the books WERE NOT minor to the other designers. I think you're offbase on that. The shoes were minor as accessories compared to this. It seems this was explicitly listed as a rule and the penalty was also explicitly given. If they had done anything less, their rules wouldn't be worth squat and it would have comprised the show and the competition. Tim clearly states this.
lisakaz
August 3, 2006 - 09:02 AM
Quote:
I am shocked people would defend Keith on ANY level. He lied and cheated and played with 'truthiness' in EVERY single episode. From first walking into the audition and saying he had designed the WYETH fall collection. That huge lie followed him then the whole season as in EVERY single episode he kept saying I have never designed womens clothes, poor me, such a disadvantage I am at. Umm. Gee Keith, Wyeth is a womans collection so guess you did NOT design it. He lied about where he got accessories from, he lied about what he designed in each challenge. He had pattern books. If you do not sew or design you do not realize what an advantage that is. To be able to reference HOW to cut and drape a design before you hit the workroom is a HUGE advantage. While other people are trying to figure it out from scratch you are already there. The worlds biggest designers have pattern makers. A professional pattern maker is worth their weight in gold to a designer. On PR they do their own and it is very much a part of the challenge.
And the FABRIC!! Omg. He bought more then he was allowed and then begged Mood to give him a discount. Do you not all remember how every season there are challenges where people are desperate because they are out of fabric, do not have enough, could not buy what they wanted for trim etc.????? How can you justify that Keith gets to spend extra money and no one else does? If you are going to let people buy extra supplies then you may as well let them just pay out of pocket. There has to be some limit to how much you are all willing to let this sleazy guy get away with!
I watched his exit interview and was appalled that a grown man would sit there moaning about people having axes to grind and blaming it on people not liking him etc. Like this is junior high school. No one likes me and I was going to win so they ganged up on poor me. He mentioned he would be ashamed in front of family and friends. Well he should be. He lied, cut corners, cheated and stretched the rules in every single episode. It was not cute. There is real money and major career options here for people. Bravo may go for the ratings and the drama. But they do seem to have some integrity and try to keep the process fair.
He took no responsibility for any of his actions. He said Vincent was picking on him so he had to "'take a walk". That is why Bravo producers found out he had gone AWOL(they said for several hours) and gone online.( Probably referencing design help.) It was Vincent and everyone picking on him he need to clear his head. LOL.
Good riddance to bad rubbish as the saying goes.
Amen Maxximo! As Howard Cosell would say, you "tell it like it is."
needlesschatter
August 3, 2006 - 09:07 AM
Big dang deal. A dude looks at a book, and you turn it into a major hoopla.
It's a shame that Bravo et al doesn't have the guts to publicly apologize for calling small dogs fashion accessories.
However, I guess rules are rules, and animal cruelty (yes, treating animals as a fashion accessory is cruel) is OK in the minds of Bravo et al.
It’s refreshing to know that Bravo et al have their priorities straight.
Dee
lisakaz
August 3, 2006 - 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Keith said he didn't use the books for an unfair advantage which is far, far from saying he didn't use the books at all.
I caught that also. I understood Keith's statement as an admission that he HAD used the books, and as a self-serving protest that it didn't give him an "unfair" advantage because everybody else already knew how to do women's clothing. IMO, his statement was essentially "I may have cheated, but it didn't make a difference, so why all the fuss?" In other words, Keith's statement represented a failure to take responsibility for cheating.
First, he should be allowed to cheat and then also be the one to judge whether it made a difference? Of course not. He's biased -- he's the one who cheated! And only he knows exactly what deficiency he may have eliminated in his sneak-reading. Why on earth would anybody trust his assurances now?
Second, the rules were very clear that certain behavior would result in immediate dismissal. There was no sliding scale standard of "how much did this infraction really affect anything." The contract that each designer had signed contained an unambiguous, harsh, black and white standard: "You cheat, you get canned on the spot."
While we out in TV land see this show as a "game," the participants in this design contest have their careers on the line. They are each deadly serious about winning and want to snag that once-in-a-million opportunity to get seed money, a mentorship, and favorable publicity nationwide. Each designer expects to have the same fair chance to demonstrate his/her skills, taste level, and "point of view."
As Kayne said, they were all relieved of any books or other materials that could be used in the competition immediately upon arrival. It looks like Keith went out and purchased them after he arrived. He knew damn well that having those books in his room was against the rules. And, those rules were formulated to put all of the designers on a level playing field. This competition is "show us what you've got," not "show us what you can do if you sneak-read to study up some more to when nobody's looking to figure out how to do it."
I also don't blame Kayne one bit for raising the issue, or for telling the producers on the urging of his fellow contestants. Kayne was stunned by the unfairness of it and shared his feeling with others who had exactly the same reaction. He then took exactly the right action: forwarding the issue to the REAL judges of a contractual violation, the producers, for a decision.
How sad that Keith couldn't manage to conduct himself honorably. As to his statement, it reeked of poor sportsmanship. I quote him back to himself: "That's so lame."
Good points FF1.
FoodFanOne
August 3, 2006 - 09:13 AM
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Maybe this has been addressed already, but if Keith was kicked off for not following the rules, why wasn't Kara Saun eliminated in the first season finale for cheating with her shoes?
Probably for a number of reasons. First, this was the first time the show had the issue of cheating come up, and they were working out their responses.
Second, it came up right on the eve of the big Fashion Week runway show. At the time, the show was to be filmed long before it would be shown on TV. Even though they had Austin do a fourth show to keep the audience and press in the dark about who the final 3 and the winner might be, the noticeable absence of the most promising designer of all would have hit the press like a tidal wave and spoiled the surprise.
Third, the ultimatum that Kara Saun was given was a one-time opportunity to preserve her ability to show her stuff. She had to choose whether to send the models down the runway with no shoes, or with new shoes (presumably from the free shoes from Michael Kors), or with the judges being told not to factor the existing shoes into their judging. Kara Saun chose the latter, and the explanation to the judges would have tipped them that something was very wrong with her entries. They might then have been reluctant to pick a winner who had the taint of cheating upon her.
In contrast, this cheating incident occurred mid-season, when airing it fully would not blow the surprise as to the final 3 and the winner. Also, note that the filming schedule has now been changed so that the final 3 will be showing in fashion week this Fall. So, we'll be seeing the Finale episodes almost in real time. This means that Bravo be forced to compromise in order to keep a lid on the show's outcome for months and months before the Fashion Week show airs. If cheating occurs, Bravo can dump the contestant and make it public right then and there. You have to think they've tightened up the rules a lot more now, based on experience, to give more guidance in situations like that.
xactlyme
August 3, 2006 - 09:14 AM
rules are rules and its all about leveling the playing field. period. no gray areas here.
as far as the long walk goes, Tim said he dissappeared AND used the internet. im guessing the infraction was the internet thing more so then just taking a solitary stroll.
again, no gray areas, he signed a contract that laid out the rules explicitly. my guess is that he knew what he was doing and chose to ignore the possible outcome.
so pray tell, how is that kayne's fault?!
i was more upset to see bonnie go, and no, i wouldnt have aufed robert.......it would have been bradley, but only based on past performance. in my opinion hes the least inspired of the bunch.
i believe yesterday was proof positive that while most of us poo pooed angela in the first group challenge, it was vincent who was an ordeal to work with. and his comment about, ' i had to tear out and redo what she did' now strikes me as bogus when you consider that regardless of the absurdness of a garment she may create, her execution is never in question. kudos to angela for the big win!
i like jeffrey's work but abhor his absolute arrogance: 'oh i hope she doesnt pick me!' talk about a big head!
Carole
August 3, 2006 - 09:16 AM
Almost as funny as how seriously some people are taking this.
Must be the same kind of folk who confuse Couric, Lauer and, ugh, Roker the Regurgitator, as real newscasters.
I bet someone comes out with a line of shower robes with inner pockets for bathtub reading....but really what self-respecting gay man spends hours in the bathroom ruinning the shower looking at pattern books??? Defies belief.
Big time.
~!GofH
Ghostyhosty: don't you like the fact that people are discussing morals? And aren't you amused by all the different views people have of what is cheating and what is not cheating? I myself am delighted that the morality of rules is a subject of discussion. Even though rosettes keep drifting in there somehow.
lisakaz
August 3, 2006 - 09:17 AM
I like you bringing up "breach of contract". Clearly, in legal terms, that voids contracts. It involves the most serious of penalties. Example: Aaron Boone tore up his knee in a pick up basketball game. That was a breach of contract. He's a baseball player. He admitted what he did and took the penalty: his contract was torn up and he lost his job and his money from it. He rehabbed on his own dime mostly and someone liked him owing up to what he did and signed him to a new contract. He could have lied but he didn't. He took his medicine and rebounded.
Ireland32
August 3, 2006 - 09:21 AM
as for keith, he gets what he deserves, when a designer has to come off from the start and say that he is the only designer worthy and continously critisizes the others before the second show, he and his arrogance deserve the outcome...bring your arrogance when you proove yourself. as in past shows all the big time ego maniacs had been illiminated or have not won...now it was keiths turn....
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