gina2
August 25, 2006 - 03:04 AM
just say hello and good morning to all the PR boarders!! took an hour just to catch up on all the postings!! =o) **climbing up on soapbox** This world is made up of all types of people different colors, sizes, religions, can't see why we just can't accept each other for what we are.
*climbing down off of soapbox*
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 03:07 AM
oops saying* not say lol should really proofread before posting
damselfly
August 25, 2006 - 03:11 AM
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just say hello and good morning to all the PR boarders!! took an hour just to catch up on all the postings!! =o) **climbing up on soapbox** This world is made up of all types of people different colors, sizes, religions, can't see why we just can't accept each other for what we are.
*climbing down off of soapbox*
I agree...not trying to be mean just feeling like people are being called lazy or something because they aren't the right size and there's grandm working out with a trainier several times a week and still struggling...good morning to you too!:v)
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 03:13 AM
hiya damsel hugs!!
damselfly
August 25, 2006 - 03:15 AM
I know about the reading...I went away yesterday for like 6 hours in the middle of the day and came back to 15ish pages....I didn't think this episode would strike up as much conversation as it has...
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 03:16 AM
me either lol but I did go through them all. There are a few firsttimers.
damselfly
August 25, 2006 - 03:20 AM
and many "drive-by"ers...some you'd like to come back so you can smack them :v)
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 03:22 AM
LOL
fashist
August 25, 2006 - 04:12 AM
i don't understand why everyone likes laura so much... whats so avant garde about her work?
leila4spirit
August 25, 2006 - 04:17 AM
I don't know. Am getting tired of her too. And speaking of this episode, I would LOVE to have seen Vincent design for Angela's mom. Two individuals with mental problems, what a show! I don't know which Red Cross she works for; but, I'll bet she keeps s..t stirred up ALL the time.
damselfly
August 25, 2006 - 04:31 AM
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i don't understand why everyone likes laura so much... whats so avant garde about her work?
"a?vant-garde? [uh-vahnt-gahrd, uh-vant-, av-ahnt-, ah-vahnt-; Fr. a-vahn-gard] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the advance group in any field, esp. in the visual, literary, or musical arts, whose works are characterized chiefly by unorthodox and experimental methods.
–adjective
2. of or pertaining to the experimental treatment of artistic, musical, or literary material.
3. belonging to the avant-garde: an avant-garde composer.
4. unorthodox or daring; radical."
I think the only thing experimental about his show is putting all these personalities in a controled environment to see what comes out of it...Sure fashion is experimental but not radical...if it was Vincent would win...
OkieMolly
August 25, 2006 - 04:41 AM
I agree with the posts I've been reading of yours pj. Angela's mom had a whiney vibe before I even heard her speak, and shouldn't a client in real life be open to suggestion from someone who knows clothes? Being an adult woman, going into another room and crying about something this trivial, is a pathetic attention grabber, and for people to go into the room to baby her, give me a break. I thought the end result was hideous, the dress was just ugly. But, I'm really happy that Jeffery didn't get kicked off. I don't know why, but I like him a lot, but not a fan of his clothing. I liked Robert too, but I guess his outfit wasn't very attractive that he made for Vincent's sister.
damselfly
August 25, 2006 - 04:47 AM
And while I'm in the dictionary world:
innovative
adj 1: ahead of the times; "the advanced teaching methods"; "had advanced views on the subject"; "a forward-looking corporation"; "is British industry innovative enough?" [syn: advanced, forward-looking, modern] 2: being or producing something like nothing done or experienced or created before; "stylistically innovative works"; "innovative members of the artistic community"; "a mind so innovational, so original" [syn: innovational, groundbreaking]
They seem to be using this word alot this year but do they know what it means? Are they really rewarding the ones who are innovational? I was the first to think that Micheal was right in winning the prior challenge but was it new; like nothing evr done before....I remember NG saying she could walk out the door in it but why? because she would "fit in" with the other clothing out there. The first challenge Keith won...why? Because his dress was wearable? TG used the word innovative in that show too. I'm really starting to believe that with the acception of the first season, that really was an experiment, PR isn't really advancing the world of fashion...is it exploiting it? I don't know...it just seems like they are misleading their audience as well as their designers who are really there trying to pleas them, being the judges and producers, and not really designing in a way they might before or after the show.
Wow, for an addict, I suddenly became very negative about the source of my addiction...hmmmm
KSboy
August 25, 2006 - 05:08 AM
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And just as a side note regarding my attitude towards the producers of this episode, according to Andy's blog, none of the models/moms were told until the arrived that the plan was to have them as models. Not cool...
I agree completely. This episode of PR3 was so completely disillusioning -- not because of any of the designers, including Jeffrey, but because of what it has made clear about the editing and production. Any points the show gained for integrity in how it handled Keith have been totally squandered by how it treated these poor women and how it felt it had the right to deceptively edit for drama the mothers and sisters just because their offspring or siblings had agreed to be subjected to all this.
nycgal
August 25, 2006 - 05:08 AM
Does Jeffrey imagine that his future clients are not the type of people that care if he is polite to someone's mother on teevee? Could he be correct that cultivating the "badboy" image will help him "build his brand". He already has a business designing, as Tim Gunn said in his podcast, "for anorexic rock stars". Still, everyone has a Mom, and some of them are fussy and insecure..
I think his behavior is hurting him overall.. but the single minded competitiveness and stubborness may well see him to the final three, but not to the win. Deja voodoo?
notevayas
Since the first PR season we all have been suckered in believing in what we see from each episode from the editors of the show. From the first PR series I have said less drama more fashion, but that is not the trend of T.V. today.
Yes, there is a conflict between Jeffery and Angela and her mom but there is so much to the story line that we do not know and we are guessing. The producers wanted a villian and they produced it. Jeffery had the most to work from to be chosen.( I sense that he is funny too) He seems to get along with his models on the show. Three existing designers have praised him. Lets face it, if he is working with musical divas, he has to be professional and flexible, otherwise he would not be where he is today with his resume.
Jeffery's designs for me have been wonderful. They are editorial, not Macy's material. If Hendri Bendel was the sponsor, it would be a better match. I still hope he wins. As far as I am concerned, he is a winner already. Of course it is a matter of taste for us all. Would you believe that Emmett was my favorite designer last year and Jay rules in my book from PR 1. Fashion is art and what inspires you. Jeffery's first design was elegant, hip and stately. I loved it with the feathers. His gown for the beauty queen was beautiful but it would require a certain minimal taste. Look what was picked, ruffles with fuss. His dog/owner design was flirtly and fun. The inc group design was fantastic. The madonna outfit would need to be reworked. His design was interesting but from the visuals the outfit looked bulky making the model look heavier. The recycled outfit was amazing, no question a winner. I smile just thinking about that design. Of course this last challenge was sad for both parties, designer/client.
This show has a course to take, that already has been decided by the gods of the producer chairs so what will be will be. There are talented designers on this show.
P.S. there was so little footage of Tim in this episode, sad decision.
Kathe123
August 25, 2006 - 05:10 AM
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inner strength? Jeffrey? oh please. enough excuses for this jerk. his "designs" are crap. Love that The Gunn gave him this week’s Jubilee Jumbles Award.
What is the Jubilee Jumbles Award?
When Angela the Great made her outfit for the dog episode, the designers were asked to come up with a story about their particular client. She said her client worked at a kids camp and it was called Jubile Jumbles. Apparently the camp was future hookers and prostitutes because her outfit was befitting a street corner...so now this award for way off "designing", if that is what you want to call it.
OMG, that's so funny! How could I have forgotten? Thanks!
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 05:13 AM
**Wow, for an addict, I suddenly became very negative about the source of my addiction...hmmmm**
I know how you feel damsel. I'm not getting the same enjoyment out of the show I did the first 2 seasons. think we are becoming jaded? I find more enjoyment in the bonus videos where they show more of the comeraderie(sp?) than the enmity.
Linwithane
August 25, 2006 - 05:14 AM
Well said.
I think it was the PR producers that made size an issue: not in fashion but in winning fashion. I think it was a good concept that was clumsily executed.
From the start, the designers got to pick their models. Of course, the smaller women were picked first. To reillerate what someone else has said: talk about flashbacks to grade school picking of teams.
It would have been better if the moms/sisters got to sit in a room and review the past work of the designers - then let the models pick the designer.
I, personally would have liked to see Michael's dress (without belt) on Robert's sister. The lines were clean and the v-neck brought attention to the face, not the waist.
To top it off, the judges had negative things to say about designs by Kayne, Robert and Jeffrey. All those designs were made for larger women. They gave the win to Vincent (dressing for a beautiful, slender woman) over Uli whose design and fit was exemplary for a beautiful, larger woman.
In the end, Bravo and/or it's Runway producers made this about size, rather than dressing the "everyday" woman.
dogabone
August 25, 2006 - 05:20 AM
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Lauren makes so many high waisted dresses because she makes her own clothes and is usually pregnant.
First of all, her name is Laura, not Lauren. She is not "usually" pregnant; some of those kids are stepchildren.
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Seriously, she needs to get an abortion. I think 5 is enough, especially since she appears to be a very neglectful and non-nurturing mom.
Although I am a proud member of NARAL and Planned Parenthood, I feel that remark is completely uncalled for and in the worst of taste. It's none of your business, and at least Laura has the money to support her brood.
Kathe123
August 25, 2006 - 05:23 AM
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I hope that Michael and Uli are both in the top three, because they are the top two. Unfortunately, I agree that either Jeffrey, Angela, or Vincent will also be there, just for drama's sake.
The show's history proves it:
Season 1 - Wendy's in the top three for drama's sake. Unfortunately for the producers, something happens to her, and she tones things down by the final. Fortunately for the producers, St. Kara Saun decides to prove she's really a cheating Satan in disguise, so goody, goody, the drama's back.
Season 2 - Santino makes it to the final 3, and the producers think they've got a sure-fire villain again. Unfortunately, by the time NY Fashion Week comes along, the viewers have realized how funny Santino is, and how spot-on his TG impersonation is. To the producers' horror, we viewers actually now like Santino -- so, hurry up and scramble, let's contrive a new, idiotic, extra garment challenge to bring back some drama.
So, now it's Season 3, and the producers seems to be stealing a page from an earlier Bravo flop that only it's gay viewers will recall, Boy Meets Boy. That season they cast a third of the supposedly gay cast using straight men pretending to be gay, and manipulated the eliminations each week to guarantee that one straight guy made it to the final three for the sake of drama. This season, one-third of the original 12 (Keith, Jeffrey, Vincent, Angela) are so weird, nasty, or both that the producers are certain that at least one of them can make it to the final three.
I swear, by the end of this season, Bravo Board Boss should give out a "most cynical poster" award. If I win, I want the prize to be a dozen rotten eggs that I can throw at the most obnoxious designer. Only problem is that I'm not sure who that would be yet.
Great post! Agreed, I hated Santino at the beginning of last season, but I totally loved him in the end. Just the opposite of what the producers wanted! So they quickly had to make Daniel V's collection and his purses the drama du jour.
I think we could both win that cynical poster award. I have been able to predict the auf pattern for several weeks now.
andynnj
August 25, 2006 - 05:26 AM
I'm truly disgusted by the absolute ignorance and hatefulness of some people on this board. My Mom was a 12-14 in her 40s and 50s, but she was active and healthy. She was a 0 when she died of breast cancer at 61 - she was so frail those last three years we couldn't hug her without hurting her. I would give just about anything to have my Mom back at any size.
If you have an issue with someone else's size (including the rest of the country), keep your trap shut and mind your own business.
Linwithane
August 25, 2006 - 05:27 AM
Gina: I agree with you regarding the enjoyment of the show. I think the difference is that the challenges, editing, etc. wasn't as contrived as it is this season.
That being said, I still make Wednesday evening/night my treat night. The kids and I go to dinner (no kitchen cleanup required), I get them ready and in bed. I take a shower and then a hot bath, prepare some PR Punch (my only alcohol of the week) and snuggle in for the show.
I need to find an excuse to continue my weekly "me" ritual when this season is over.
hootie1fan
August 25, 2006 - 05:28 AM
Creating an outfit for an “Every Woman” was a great idea and when I saw who the models were I thought this challenge would be fabulous. Unfortuntately, what it mostly showed was one of the great weaknesses of the majority of the remaining fashion designers. They really have no I idea how to create attractive clothes for women who are much less than 6 feet tall and larger than a size 6 which is most American women. We have waists, breasts, cleavage and, yes, even legs. We have been known on occasion to wear colors other than black and most of us avoid muumuus. We don’t all wear baggy pants and khakis all the time.
Are the designers really so limited in talent that they couldn’t come up with something decent? From watching this episode, I realized that fabulous was out of the question.
damselfly
August 25, 2006 - 05:29 AM
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Welcome to the Bravo message boards thread for Project Runway episode 307, "Everyday Woman". In this challenge, we get to learn *a lot* more about the designers' lives and influences.
(And on a personal note, this is your BravoBoardBoss' favorite episode of Project Runway, from any season, ever! You're all in for a treat.)
Also, be sure to check out the BravoTV.com video player later tonight, because the Bonus Videos for this episode are particularly great.
Enjoy!
??????????????????????????????????????
This is Damsel's husband checking in. I've been puzzling over the BravoBoardBoss's message, wondering what made this episode so special... I didn't find much insight into the designers or their backgrounds in this episode. A few childhood photos, a few photo ops, then back to the acrimony. Nothing struck me as truly intimate or even very warm. I heard that the mothers and sisters didn't know they'd be modelling on national tv before they got there. Bad move, very sneaky, and potentially disastrous when the magical combination of unhappy model and grouchy designer happens. The producers wear more responsibility than they might like, here. Maybe that's why they gave Jeffrey a bye. Oh, and was Vincent's win to justify his not leaving last week? Guilt does not make for good judgement. Ulli knocked it out of the park. This season lacks good design. That's why it isn't as captivating. The real dramatic tension should come because it is all coming down to the runway, where fashion talks and bulls#!t walks...
But not this year
hilaryloren
August 25, 2006 - 05:34 AM
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michael managed a completely reversible dress in one day, robert did an unstructured jacket and laura did a LOT of tailoring on her outfit, it was do-able... he didn't seem to think that the challenge warranted that much effort.
I have to disagree with you, a reversible dress is very simple to make, you just cut the pattern twice and go for it. Then machine hem the bottom. I can whip on of those out in 3 or 4 hours.
A jacket is a lot different. There is a lot of tailoring that has to go into it. Interfacing, inner lining, lining etc. A jacket usually requires a more advanced style of button hole and the lapels are usually more tailored and more demanding . The pockets are usually inset and lined. It is a whole different ball game.
On this episode 5 designers tailored at least 1 part of their garment, so it was very doable. Vincent, Michael, & Laura's entire looks were very tailored & Uli & Kayne both had tailored pants on their models, (both of whom were plus size). So I believe if Jeff had actually put any effort into the challenge, he too could have come up with some than that sack he designed. He designed a vest of his own free will, perhaps he could have tailored it, or at least made it visible...for all we know it could have been tailored very nicely but it was hard to see w/ all the other monotone crap going on.
Linwithane
August 25, 2006 - 05:35 AM
YES! That's what i think and said earlier - very clumsily handled by BRAVO. As for fashion talking, I have agreed with most (not all) of the winners on the show. Bullsh*t walking is a different story: I've disagreed with most of the auf'ing.
gandm
August 25, 2006 - 05:39 AM
Good morning all!!! Have the drive-bys tapered off yet? Just drives me nuts! LOL!
BTW, have you watched the bonus videos yet?
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 05:46 AM
hi lin thank you and "Top Chef" starts in october and that is what I'll be watching lol =o)
KellySouthDakota
August 25, 2006 - 05:47 AM
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Creating an outfit for an “Every Woman” was a great idea and when I saw who the models were I thought this challenge would be fabulous. Unfortuntately, what it mostly showed was one of the great weaknesses of the majority of the remaining fashion designers. They really have no I idea how to create attractive clothes for women who are much less than 6 feet tall and larger than a size 6 which is most American women. We have waists, breasts, cleavage and, yes, even legs. We have been known on occasion to wear colors other than black and most of us avoid muumuus. We don’t all wear baggy pants and khakis all the time.
Are the designers really so limited in talent that they couldn’t come up with something decent? From watching this episode, I realized that fabulous was out of the question.
I agree wholeheartedly! The designers who had the plus-size moms and sisters created outfits that were either great or boring, but none of them showed an understanding of BEING plus-sized. I loved Robert's comment in the work room, he siad he did not know HOW to approach this issue, he did not know proportion for plus size. To that I would add, none of them knew what looks good on bigger, older women. The body parts most women can successfully emphasize when they are older and/or bigger are shoulders, calves, necklines and cleavage.I wanted to see knee length skirts, close to the body, with a little flutter at the hem for interest, open-necked tops with something to draw your eye up to the face, long flowing sleeves that are both elegant AND cover up flabby upper arms if necessary, and maybe wrap-around tops that add texture and fool the eye into thinking there is no poochyness. And why, why, why BLACK? Angela's mom showed up in a black pullover sweater, Jeffrey gave her mostly black designs, that fringed-butt skirt was black as can be.
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 05:49 AM
gm gandm!! and yes I have watched them lol i really liked the one where they are all in the sewing room joking around!! I wish there was more of that on the show we actually watch.
hoopoe
August 25, 2006 - 05:49 AM
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Here's a really out there suggestion... maybe Heidi wanted Uli's mom to be the winning model cause of the German connection? spreche ze deutcsh any one?
I don't speak German either, obviously.
I speak German, and Heidi asked Uli's mother whether she liked her outfit, and Uli's mom responded that yes, she liked it, she felt good in it. I thought that Heidi speaking to Uli's mom in their native language was simply a courtesy she extended because Uli's mother knows very little English.
gandm
August 25, 2006 - 05:56 AM
Me, too. That's why I like watching the bonus videos so much...you get to see the designers 'being human' with each other!
Anyway, Rucker's cam was interesting. Did you hear when he was listing all the drama 'firsts' of Season 3? He happened to mention the model who had one shoulder 6 inches higher than another. Many have been slamming Alison as being catty, especially for her remark that a model had scoliousis (sp?) that made her have a higher shoulder and more difficult to design for...turns out she wasn't being catty...she was just being factual!!
quiltmuse
August 25, 2006 - 05:59 AM
I believe only a few years ago size 10 was considered average.
Wouldn't surprise me if this moved upward in recent years.
Size is just a number -- meaningless in itself and has meaning only when correlated with bodily measurements. I was comparing my measurements from my 20's with today's size charts and by them I would be a size 4-6. Then I was a 13-14 -- with the same measurements!
Now? Never mind...
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 05:59 AM
I never found alison to be catty at all. I still really like her. =o)
swiss74
August 25, 2006 - 06:02 AM
Just jumping in to say hello before I run out the door. Wanted to see if there was anyone here I knew. On Wednesday night and yesterday I was sure I was at the wrong boards to post.
Linwithane
August 25, 2006 - 06:02 AM
Where can I find Rucker's cam? I thought I watched all the bonus clips.
I also enjoy listening to Tim's podcast (I get if off the site) I am one of those who thinks that Darlene was a bit of a pill. After listening to Mr. Gunn, and hearing how Jeffrey "padded" his dress form with paper towels and extraneous material, I started to feel for her. That must have been humilating.
Where can I find Rucker's video? I've missed that.
Linwithane
August 25, 2006 - 06:03 AM
Sorry - too much coffee - didn't mean to ask about Rucker's video twice -
gandm
August 25, 2006 - 06:04 AM
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Where can I find Rucker's video? I've missed that.
His video is the last of the bonus videos. There is usually a Rucker video for each episode where he explains some of the production side of things (usually pretty boring).
gandm
August 25, 2006 - 06:07 AM
Morning Swiss! Know what you mean...lots of people dropping in to write one huge post and then, <poof> disappear! I have to say, I just start skipping those long posts unless it's someone I recognize or has a decent amount of posts. May not be PC to say, but at least I'm honest!!
Veronica
August 25, 2006 - 06:08 AM
Is anyone else sick of Jeffrey's bad attitude, bad behavior and whining? What a mewling little creep. I was appalled at the way he treated Angela's mother last night. How disrespectful. You could tell he was going to give her a hard time when he made the comment "God must be drunk today". She seemed like a lovely lady and yes, she told the truth when asked the question by Tim. He steam-rolled her from the start, not listening to what she wanted. Then he made her cry. His own mother should have reamed him a new one and instead she goes up and hugs him like he's the one who needs to be consoled for being a complete tool. Then when Robert got kicked off the show, he's whining to his mother "There are alot of bad people here, but Robert wasn't one of them." Really Jeffrey? Might YOU be one of those bad people? I may not always like Angela's designs but I have never seen her bash or belittle others the way you have on pretty much every episode. Take a page from Michael's book. This guy is not only a great designer, but he has class. I have NEVER seen him act like anything other than a gentleman. I was sickened by what I saw last night. Jeffrey's designs aren't that spectacular. He's not good enough to be always bashing others, yet he does it every week. The dress he made for Angela's mother was indeed not only embarrasing but an insult. I would like nothing more than to see Jeffrey go but I fear that his role as the villian follows the Bravo formula of always having a villian, an underdog and a good designer make it to the final 3.
swiss74
August 25, 2006 - 06:09 AM
Being from Texas I thought it was an alien invasion.
quiltmuse
August 25, 2006 - 06:14 AM
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If you go over there independently or marry a European it is a different experience. Been there done that.
Where were you and when? Maybe we could compare experiences!
We left working for the military to go it on our own and were already living 'on the economy' at the time so we were at least used to the housing, neighbors and transportation system. The shopping was something else even though I had always done some food shopping when I went downtown.
We stayed and worked there for 14 years and coming back to the States was something of a culture shock. We have long since reacclimated -- but I do enjoy my trips back to Germany.
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 06:15 AM
lol swiss gm hon =o)
GatorGal
August 25, 2006 - 06:16 AM
Thank God we don't have to listen to what you think! You are such a horrible person to even suggest that someone should abort her baby just because you think 5 is enough. Laura and her husband seem quite capable of making those decisions for themselves and will stop having kids when they are ready. As for Laura's design style being influenced by her numerous pregnancies, well then I can only hope more designers become pregnant!
gina2
August 25, 2006 - 06:17 AM
tried watching the production crew clips, too boringggggggggg!! lol
gandm
August 25, 2006 - 06:18 AM
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I never found alison to be catty at all. I still really like her. =o)
I agree. But after people read her interview, some thought she was being really snobby and thought her comments about a 'crooked' model were untrue and vindictive. Some were really nasty about it! Hope they watch & listen to Rucker's video so they know she's speaking the truth!
gandm
August 25, 2006 - 06:21 AM
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tried watching the production crew clips, too boringggggggggg!! lol
Yes, those are the videos that I have to force myself to watch!!! I really don't care what Rucker thinks, nor the production crew! But sometimes -- rarely -- I learn something that I didn't know before (like the crooked model thing).
Linwithane
August 25, 2006 - 06:23 AM
I just watched Rucker's video. Interesting about the model. What I found telling was the story editor (Shea) saying that she wanted "more yelling, more tears and more cussing."
bravoheart
August 25, 2006 - 06:26 AM
I'm fine with Jeffrey. He's the sensitive prima-donna 'artiste'. He only sells to other artists, so I excuse his apparent lack of people skills when dealing with a 'normal' person. Artists and other creative people do treat and view each other differently than other people. His typical customer would give him all the leeway in the world to create his 'art'.
Angela's mom was treating and making requests of Jeff like he was some tailor, and he reacted badly. In real life no customer would treat his 'artiste' talents this way, or he'd of just walked off the job. But he still completed the challenge. Good for him -- he's absolutely serious about PR, and not about to get kicked off without a fight.
In many interviews, when asked who is the most talented, most contestants have only positive things to say about Jeffrey and his abilities. Actually I have yet to read anything negative said about Jeffrey by any contestants interviewed outside the show and it's highly edited and filtered end-product.
swiss74
August 25, 2006 - 06:28 AM
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If you go over there independently or marry a European it is a different experience. Been there done that.
Where were you and when? Maybe we could compare experiences!
We left working for the military to go it on our own and were already living 'on the economy' at the time so we were at least used to the housing, neighbors and transportation system. The shopping was something else even though I had always done some food shopping when I went downtown.
We stayed and worked there for 14 years and coming back to the States was something of a culture shock. We have long since reacclimated -- but I do enjoy my trips back to Germany.
Switzerland, 1972 lived there for about 7 years. Lived in Zurich, Geneva and Basl. Going to the grocery store was always an experience in survival. I was used to shopping by the week and found over there I went daily or every other day. I learned some French and German so we did not starve, actually a little more than that. My sister in law was from Milan and she spoke English and Italian. The whole family spoke English but their language was Switzel Deutsch which is a dialect of German. Actually that is what I learned to speak more than German. I learned to read German somewhat. I loved the Alps. Went to the Munich Olympic which was an experience and fled back to Basl when it got out of hand. There is such a difference in the different sections of Switzerland it is almost hard to believe. The French section is lovely and very pretty, the German sector is very stoic and also very industrial, while the Italian sector was loads of fun all the time. The Romanch section I did not visit that much so really cannot comment on it. Switzerland is really a melting pot in some respects. It is all very interesting and I liked it, yes it is something to return to the states after being an expatriot. I was fortunate to come back to the states every year so it was not all that bad when I came back here for good. Great experience but there is no place like home.
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