BravoTV Message Boards > Episode 313: FINALE, PART ONE!

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 01:55 PM

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What's with the cooking show? Don't they have their own site?

They do, but Bravo has promoted "Top Chef" as a continuation of "competition". It's pretty clear from their promos that the show is as much about manufactured drama as anything else.

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The mechanics of this board are so bad - just trying to post while staying on topic sucks bad enough.

If you want order, you should try TWoP. They have lots of rules that they enforce unlike Bravo, which is again, all about the drama on the boards also.

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I do not agree Laura is the finest designer. I think she might be the best seamstress - - - but not designer. I have never seen anything fresh or innovative in her designs.

I think what is fresh about Laura is her unwillingness to wear ugly childish fashions to be "in style". Or to "dress down". So many people behave with little respect for themselves or anyone else in public. Dressing well, and age appropriately is a basic sign of self respect and public respect. It's common for teenagers to dress in an "it's all about me" way, but not great to stay in that mode for life.

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IMO - too many are focusing on personality instead of actual design abilities. And I try really hard to ignore the editing.

I think the designer's personality has a lot to do with their style of design at least. I see much optimism and nature in Uli's designs. Because of the poster whisker's links, I now see Jeff's designs as derivative of self-styled Brit punk bands of the eighties (without the self-humour).

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I think Michael is OK with simple sportswear - - sweet guy - - but boring designer.

Like Robert Best? Only would Robert have squandered the opportunity to show at Fashion Week by making H0 costumes?

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I like Uli as a person - - and do love her clothes. But I do not see anything earth shattering in her designs.

Why should the earth have to shatter? Seriously. Do you personally want to be a spectacle in your clothes? I don't. Uli has the only finalist collection IMO that does not look costumey. And they are actually pretty on real women, not just making beautiful models a little less perfect like Jeffs.

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Jeffrey is the only designer I see as having a vision.

As far as him not showing expert sewing in the competition - - that would be exactly how my mind worked.

My mind would be on the design - not the execution. My mind would say: focus on design - - when you present it to a client - - you will probably have to adjust or re-do something - - - so don't waste time on perfect execution.

But when I did the collection - - my mind would be on perfection and execution - - because it is the ultimate design presentation.

You make good points here. It could be that Jeffrey does not use his photos of bands as templates, but derives inspiration from them, the same way Uli is inspired by the surf and sand and ocean view in Miami. And Jeff does seem to have the machinery and know how to do great finishing. I have no idea if he cheated, but I think if it was a choice to show a perfect collection by bending the rules, he would.

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If I picked one person to design for me - - it would be Jeffrey - - not even a second thought.

What sold you? The crotch bling? <Kidding>.

notevayas

excellent, brilliant post Notey

MaureenKennedy

October 18, 2006 - 02:22 PM

Viewing that website with the large pictures of Jeff's collection - several other garments have some very serious pleating done in them - and yet no mention was made of sending out the pleats to be done by another? You can see from what he showed at Bryant, that neither the leather jeans nor the leather shorts made it to the runway. A Gray skirt isn't shown either (Jeff's backup incase the shorts are tossed).

La Fashion week started here and I was checking out designers and none were PR's designers - then I read another article and it said it costs designers $20,000-$40,000 to enter their designs in this runway events! Yikes - no wonder going to Bryant Park is so important for these folks.

An interesting giggle - designer at La Fashion week Sue Wong used rosettes in one of her designs.

brillke

October 18, 2006 - 02:33 PM

So sorry to hear such terrible news actor.

brillke

oscarsimon

October 18, 2006 - 02:36 PM

Excuse me Sweetie - - but I support Laura in her right to question Jeffrey.

As far as intelligent posts discussing it - - few and far between.

Personal rants and name calling - - I ignore.

Back to focusing on Design.

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 02:38 PM

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Viewing that website with the large pictures of Jeff's collection - several other garments have some very serious pleating done in them - and yet no mention was made of sending out the pleats to be done by another? You can see from what he showed at Bryant, that neither the leather jeans nor the leather shorts made it to the runway. A Gray skirt isn't shown either (Jeff's backup incase the shorts are tossed).

La Fashion week started here and I was checking out designers and none were PR's designers - then I read another article and it said it costs designers $20,000-$40,000 to enter their designs in this runway events! Yikes - no wonder going to Bryant Park is so important for these folks.

An interesting giggle - designer at La Fashion week Sue Wong used rosettes in one of her designs.

HI I believe that he did mention he sent them out for pleating. In fact he told Laura that she should have googled pleating manufacturers instead of the blogs LOL

PlatinumHanger

October 18, 2006 - 02:53 PM

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My gosh, are you all in your teens and 20's out there.

Hey! I'm 27 and didn't like that post! :-)

That wasn't directed at you "youngin' Aurora". You left out the rantings of the person who posted about how old and what a hag Laura was, I was trying to emphasize to her that 42 is NOT old. Age is relative, when you're a puppy in your teens or early 20's, maybe 40's seem old, but just wait...

oscarsimon

October 18, 2006 - 03:08 PM

notevayas - - I am fully aware of TWop. The mechanics of this forum - - has nothing to do with administrative control.

I respect your opinion - - but would say you are one of the "Little Black Dress" group. Elegant but safe.

I prefer innovative and cutting edge. That design that radiates style and class - - but never crosses into costumy.

That is how I see Jeffrey.

And as far as 60 year olds dressing in punk - - - I am 60 and No I never would.

Of course there is age appropriate - - - but that is Not what Project Runway is about - - or at least it shouldn't be.

mainer

October 18, 2006 - 03:15 PM

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you are so ridiculous, Laura did not voice her concerns because she felt threatend in any way, she did it because she thinks he had help, and I agree with her, and for the record, I think she has made no enemies, but Jeffery is disliked and you can tell it from the way the others act. Both Uli and Michael felt the same way but maybe did not feel strong enough to bring it up, Laura is not contemptable for bringing up what she believes when there is so much at stake, after all it should be a level playing field, and I certainly don't believe that Laura thinks Jefferys collection is superior to hers, no way,any one with any taste could see that it is not. I am watching the show right now where Jeffery is sooo cruel to Angela's mom, and all because she really deep down did not fit the profile he wanted to create for, Jeffery is a big snob, and very disrespectful.

i agree with a lot of what you said. did you see the lok on jefferys face when tim was lauding her collection n his statement" this looks like a collection. n what he said to michael you must make it look like it belongs in one womans closet. lauras does. . jefferys look all season was out there for the rockers. thats fine but it wont wast in macys. blomies, or neiman marcus or any other big store that caters to women who have the bucks to spend. i think even if she doesnt win she will go a long way in the fashion world some one will snatch her up.

IMHO alice

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 03:20 PM

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you are so ridiculous, Laura did not voice her concerns because she felt threatend in any way, she did it because she thinks he had help, and I agree with her, and for the record, I think she has made no enemies, but Jeffery is disliked and you can tell it from the way the others act. Both Uli and Michael felt the same way but maybe did not feel strong enough to bring it up, Laura is not contemptable for bringing up what she believes when there is so much at stake, after all it should be a level playing field, and I certainly don't believe that Laura thinks Jefferys collection is superior to hers, no way,any one with any taste could see that it is not. I am watching the show right now where Jeffery is sooo cruel to Angela's mom, and all because she really deep down did not fit the profile he wanted to create for, Jeffery is a big snob, and very disrespectful.

i agree with a lot of what you said. did you see the lok on jefferys face when tim was lauding her collection n his statement" this looks like a collection. n what he said to michael you must make it look like it belongs in one womans closet. lauras does. . jefferys look all season was out there for the rockers. thats fine but it wont wast in macys. blomies, or neiman marcus or any other big store that caters to women who have the bucks to spend. i think even if she doesnt win she will go a long way in the fashion world some one will snatch her up.

IMHO alice

You are so right Alice the part that concerns me is that the judges are notoriously inconsistent. They said "make something that is representative of your POV" and Laura did and they dissed it and gave the nod to Uli.

Now Laura is trying to make a collection and I am betting now they will tell her "all your stuff is the same" and again give the nod to Uli or Jeffrey. I hope she wins, but I think she is just too elegant and gorgeous for them.

I agree, she will go far.

nowvoyager

October 18, 2006 - 03:27 PM

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Nevertheless Laura is clearly a better seamstress than Jeffrey. What you are all missing is that having a business also does not mean that Jeffrey is better. That is the most arrogant, capitalisitic assumption. Just maybe Laura is just a plain better seamstress. I say that based upon the statements made by participants, and by verified viewings of their finished product, and by noting remarks made by those who saw her finishing and pronounced it in a class by itself, including Tim Gunn in his latest podcast.

Just because Jeffrey makes money at his craft, and because he is a good designer, it does not automatically follow that he is superior to Laura at sewing especially given that his finishing has never been at her level.

Actor keeps (rightfully) pointing out his fabulous design studio and all his toys as perhaps the reason his finishing is so much improved for the final collection. That could well be true. That just doesnt impress me tho.

Hon, I haven't said that I think Jeffrey is better at sewing than Laura is. I haven't said that Laura is better at sewing than Jeffrey is. Don't put words into my mouth (as it were) that aren't there, okay? It'll only get you into trouble and cause other not-so-careful readers to also make ASSumptions about what I've posted, that I have not posted at all. Thanks.
Now, on to your point.
Laura's argument isn't that Jeffrey's work is better than her own work. She's never said that. Her entire "suspicion" about the quality of Jeffrey's work is based on a comparison she has made between his work during the competition and his work now. It has nothing to do with her at all. Make sure you read and understand this particular statement, because it's the most important one of all. Here, I'll even repeat it for you: It has nothing to do with her at all.
I can't believe that you and the others like you, who are arguing over whether or not Jeffrey's work or sewing skills are better or worse than Laura's, keep harping on an issue that simply doesn't exist!

My opinion is that it's entirely possible for Jeffrey to display superior construction and finishing skills for his show pieces, that's all. It has NOTHING to do (pay attention) with his skills vs. Laura's skills.
The time and effort I put forth in constructing my scrubs is NOTHING compared to the time and effort I put forth, for instance, in the Living History pieces I've been sewing for a friend. It's ludicrous for ANYone to look at my scrubs and look at my Living History pieces and conclude that either they couldn't have been made by the same person, or that I couldn't possibly have made both sets of clothing on my own.

actually you are right, the issue is NOT whether Jeffrey is in Laura's league, except that it serves IMO as a parameter that she can use in evaluating Jeffrey's likelihood that the sewing is his. There are many issues involved in this.

I realize that whether Jeffrey cheated or not has nothng to do with Laura's skills and as such a comparison is not important. I never said it was.

This whole conversation has become circuitous and redundant. I fully understand what is happening however and in the same vein, please don't assume that I am somehow missing the point, because I'm not.

Also, calling people stupid as you are doing in your posts isnt going to ameliorate the situation either.

Um, if I've been calling people stupid, as you claim (wrongly), then you've been calling people capitalistically arrogant, missing something, whatever.
The "argument" seems only to have become redundant after I corrected you.
Again, Laura doesn't need to use her own skills and experience level to judge Jeffrey's skills and experience level. Again, it has nothing to do with her!! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see a seam with crooked stitching, less stitches per inch, glue, staples or fusible webbing in the hems and conclude that some mighty sloppy work was done; nor does it take a rocket scientist to see seam lines that go where they're supposed to go and end where they're supposed to end, to see hand stitching that's even and neatly done, etc, to conclude that some mighty fine work was done. People who don't sew can tell the difference, or else they can make accurage guesses as to what constitutes fine work and what doesn't.

The redundancy is anyone's insistence that Laura's gripe about Jeffrey has to do with jealousy on ANYone's part toward ANYone else, or a comparison of her own work to his. Laura knows what sloppy work is, and she knows what fine work is, that's all. I expect that all of the contestants know the difference. If Laura didn't utilize any cheaters' methods, great. I think that is more to do with her particular need to make everything as perfectly as possibly as much of the time as possible, than even a sense of ethics. Einstein was notorious for his haphazard living habits. If he didn't have a wife to feed him, he'd have starved to death.

oscarsimon

October 18, 2006 - 03:39 PM

I truly question "What is Elegance"?

IMO - Elegance is an aura - how a woman presents herself - how she makes guests feel special - how she presents herself as regal wearing JC Penneys and makes every commoner feel worthy and equal.

A truly elegant woman could wear Jeffrey's "milkmaid" dress with radiants as if it just won the Oscar of fashion.

Elegants is not the "little black dress" - and its cousins "little black dress with Ostrich feathers" - "little black dress with beads" - "little black dress with rhinestones" - "little black dress covered in lace"

mainer

October 18, 2006 - 03:41 PM

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Hey Tam sorry to jump in on your post...Been a really bad day just found out that two of my friends here in NOLA are dead....one murdered in the most grusome way ...the other we don't know only he has been in the mourge for over 10 days since today. I love this PR board but please excuce me from not contiuning on it for awhile I have real life situations to attend with. All my love to y'all hopefully I will see you soon on the boards.

actor so sorry my prayers are with you n the family of your friends/ peace love

alice

sopenca

October 18, 2006 - 03:43 PM

Laura somehow managed to do the seemingly impossible....make people feel sorry for Jeffrey. I do think her accusations are a bit far out and this contest is about creativity, so who cares if he didn't sew it as long as it was his vision. I mean most designers have seamstresses anyway.
It just seems like this sudden love for everything Jeffrey is more of a knee jerk reaction to Laura than an actual testament to his design abilities, because when it comes right to it, none of these designers is bringing a new point of view. Michael, Uli, Laura and Jeffrey are just cut rate versions of Baby Phat, Roberto Cavalli, Carolina Herrera and L.A.M.B. respectively.
It seems as if a lot of people are confusing Jeffrey's offbeat design as innovation. Believe me, just cuz it's not mass produced doesn't mean it hasn't been done before.

IronChef

October 18, 2006 - 03:51 PM

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Yup Lia,
But a turtle is a turtle ...lol...was cecil the turtle who raced Bugs Bunny? If not jeffrey looked like that turtle as well.

A turtle is a turtle, but IMO, I think he looks more like Cecil than a TMNT! Yes, Cecil was the tortoise who raced Bugs all those decades ago. The Teenage Mutant Ninjas look faster all around, and more able to react as "superheroes" than Cecil, who's more sloe-eyed and less quick on the draw, and I just think Jeffrey has more of a "Cecil" look than a "TMNT" look.

I can't believe we're actually debating which turtle he looks more like, but there you go!

Lia

notevayas

October 18, 2006 - 03:53 PM

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notevayas - - I am fully aware of TWop. The mechanics of this forum - - has nothing to do with administrative control.

I respect your opinion - - but would say you are one of the "Little Black Dress" group. Elegant but safe.

I prefer innovative and cutting edge. That design that radiates style and class - - but never crosses into costumy.

That is how I see Jeffrey.

And as far as 60 year olds dressing in punk - - - I am 60 and No I never would.

Of course there is age appropriate - - - but that is Not what Project Runway is about - - or at least it shouldn't be.

I hear you. I am not a techie, but I am aware that this board does not have the capabilities of other places.. no editing after a post is posted, no ability to post hyperlinks or photos, no private mail... In the couple of years I have posted here, I have come to appreciate that due to the nature of these boards, some of this is good.
I have over 2000 posts here over 2 and a half years and none of those posts are deletable. That necessitates a bit of humility for my past mistakes, and a bit of honesty over time. I realize other posters change names and "start over" to erase their history, so I tend to gravitate to the old time posters like whiskers as well as being constantly impressed with great newbies like Tam, as well as no-nonsense posters like yourself.

I've never worn a dress in my life, but I have a wicked (in every sense of the word), robe collection! And last season, I was a complete Santino fan! Santino was like a "mad scientist" in the sewingroom, but I appreciated his organic creative process. Jeffrey seems to me more calculated. I think Santino survived challenges he might have lost because the judges were so curious as to what he would make next. I think Jeffrey survived the "Everyday Woman" challenge because he was Santino's boss and designs for rock stars which is very sexy to Bravo (and obviously the teens and preteens who post here). And his black and white outfit was a loser also.. worse than Kaynes!

I respect your opinion, and I respect much about Jeffrey, but some of the silhouettes of his fashions make 105lb models look fat.. especially his babydolls and the horizontally striped dress. I do like the trouser sets with the gathering around the ankles. But I want a beginner to win Project Runway. I am still a big Jay fan and I see Uli as another Jay.. a true outsider with a strong beautiful vision. And lets face it, there is much less tolerance for women to be "experimental". Uli made the superior "couture-like" gown IMO because couture is all about the handwork as well as vision. If Uli had made Jeffrey's yellow picnic tablecloth hoochie dress, she would have been "out" IMO.

That you are 60 is not shocking to me, even though in your previous post you use the term "sucked". My guy is your generation and he thinks fashion is ridiculous. Tim Gunn is in his 50's and he thinks Laura's collection is the bees knees!

Jay, Santino, Uli.. my three fantasy winners of Project Runway! True individualists.. real people.. skilled artisans!
JMO,
notevayas

IronChef

October 18, 2006 - 03:57 PM

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Thank you for posting that comparison picture, it does look like Jeffrey, my goodness... but of course we cannot compare the manner of both. while Jeffrey seems to be finished in record time... Cecil was always a bit slow... although in a few of his cartoons.. he did cheat...
Just food for thought...

LOL! It does remind me a little of that old "WKRP in Cincinnati" ep where the local cop wanted to prove that all folks who'd consumed alcohol had delayed reaction times. Of course, the cop's big mistake was in using Dr. Johnny Fever as his subject! Johnny actually got faster the more he drank, and he proved the "theory" wrong in spades!

Lia

Tankthemoroncat

October 18, 2006 - 04:07 PM

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Smart they said now while she is breast feeding she can teach Harrison to read..LOL

OMG I think I just peed my pants! LMAO!

IronChef

October 18, 2006 - 04:11 PM

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Hey Tam sorry to jump in on your post...Been a really bad day just found out that two of my friends here in NOLA are dead....one murdered in the most grusome way ...the other we don't know only he has been in the mourge for over 10 days since today. I love this PR board but please excuce me from not contiuning on it for awhile I have real life situations to attend with. All my love to y'all hopefully I will see you soon on the boards.

My heart goes out to you, actor. No death is ever a "good" one unless it happens peacefully in sleep after the life in question has played out to the satisfaction of the one who lived.

I'm so sorry your friends have met an unfortunate end, and all too soon. Some people outside the situation might automatically jump to the conclusion that because they lived in a city like NOLA, they were taking their lives into their own hands daily, but I don't subscribe to that "geographical" theory.

No one has the right to take life from another, or deprive one of it without due course. Your friends were deprived of life unduly and before their time. I only hope that those responsible are found and brought to justice quickly.

I'm so sorry you've had to experience this, actor, and I hope you can begin to heal very soon.

Lia

notevayas

October 18, 2006 - 04:13 PM

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LOL! It does remind me a little of that old "WKRP in Cincinnati" ep where the local cop wanted to prove that all folks who'd consumed alcohol had delayed reaction times. Of course, the cop's big mistake was in using Dr. Johnny Fever as his subject! Johnny actually got faster the more he drank, and he proved the "theory" wrong in spades!

Lia

Is this show in syndication? Where can I watch it? I still remember the posts about the turkeys not flying.. it sounds funny.
notevayas

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 04:13 PM

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I truly question "What is Elegance"?

IMO - Elegance is an aura - how a woman presents herself - how she makes guests feel special - how she presents herself as regal wearing JC Penneys and makes every commoner feel worthy and equal.

A truly elegant woman could wear Jeffrey's "milkmaid" dress with radiants as if it just won the Oscar of fashion.

Elegants is not the "little black dress" - and its cousins "little black dress with Ostrich feathers" - "little black dress with beads" - "little black dress with rhinestones" - "little black dress covered in lace"

elegance is surely not Jeffrey's cocktail "hooker" dress or his milk maid dress. I think Laura comes a lot closer than Jeffrey for my own personal taste.

As for yours, I am not correcting you because we each have a different POV.

Tankthemoroncat

October 18, 2006 - 04:18 PM

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so sorry Actor59

Oh no I'm so sorry as well. I can understand your pain - two of my friends lost young children within 6 weeks one year - I nearly lost my mind! It's horrible to lose someone and then to lose TWO at one time - just awful. *hug*

oscarsimon

October 18, 2006 - 04:18 PM

Kewl notevayas

If you run into Oscar's on other boards - it could be me - I stand by - if I say it - I own it.

I have been designing since the 50s and Betsy McCall. Because of physical difficulties (no boring details) I was unable to pursue it as a career.

I babysat and bought my own used sewing machine at age 12. I am completely self taught - - not an ancestor or gramma in the bunch who had any interest in sewing - knitting - chrocheting - etc. (one gramma did padlock and chain herself to the Whitehouse for women's suffrage).

I currently do deconstruction. My daughter works in Hollywood - - collects throw away clothes from her friends - - I "fix" them - - give them back to her - - and she sells them back to the same friends. What a racket.

Thank you - I appreciate intelligent debates - accusations and name calling are a waste of my time.

CALady

October 18, 2006 - 04:21 PM

Actor,
Our thoughts are with you buddy. I am so sorry for your loss.
Calady

notevayas

October 18, 2006 - 04:26 PM

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I truly question "What is Elegance"?

IMO - Elegance is an aura - how a woman presents herself - how she makes guests feel special - how she presents herself as regal wearing JC Penneys and makes every commoner feel worthy and equal.

A truly elegant woman could wear Jeffrey's "milkmaid" dress with radiants as if it just won the Oscar of fashion.

Elegants is not the "little black dress" - and its cousins "little black dress with Ostrich feathers" - "little black dress with beads" - "little black dress with rhinestones" - "little black dress covered in lace"

elegance is surely not Jeffrey's cocktail "hooker" dress or his milk maid dress. I think Laura comes a lot closer than Jeffrey for my own personal taste.

As for yours, I am not correcting you because we each have a different POV.

Uli's couture gown was elegant, but her tropical safari runway feels very primal. It gives the woman an "authority" from nature more than city sophistication.

Jeffrey's editorial dress was in no way a "milkmaid" dress. It was pretty but subversive. It reminded me of his recycled paper dress triumph. Of course, a woman with Heidi's measurements might have stretched the demure front to make it look like a costumey milkmaid get-up, but as it was, it was a cross between innocence and jaded.
It showed a depth that made me think twice about Jeffrey, especially coming after his Appalachian hooker cocktail dress.
notevayas

judyb870

October 18, 2006 - 04:27 PM

I believe that Jeffery outsourced his work, probably to his employees. He didn't have the finishing skills on his runway clothes, either. Plus, if you read some of the other sites, Jefferys mom told Lauras mom that Tim had concerns because Jeffery hardly had anything completed when he visited. Yet, when he shows up for the runway show a short time later, he had so much completed. He even had extra pieces made, that he said he might not use. Also during the time he was working on his collection, he was doing work for his own company. The LA Times did a story on him, and he said he made clothes for David Navarro to wear on the Supernova tv show.... besides other pieces for other stars.

So, I completely believe that he outsourced his work. I think that Laura is brave for bringing it up. I also think she has guts, and class, to tell him that she talked to tim.

oscarsimon

October 18, 2006 - 04:28 PM

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I truly question "What is Elegance"?

IMO - Elegance is an aura - how a woman presents herself - how she makes guests feel special - how she presents herself as regal wearing JC Penneys and makes every commoner feel worthy and equal.

A truly elegant woman could wear Jeffrey's "milkmaid" dress with radiants as if it just won the Oscar of fashion.

Elegants is not the "little black dress" - and its cousins "little black dress with Ostrich feathers" - "little black dress with beads" - "little black dress with rhinestones" - "little black dress covered in lace"

elegance is surely not Jeffrey's cocktail "hooker" dress or his milk maid dress. I think Laura comes a lot closer than Jeffrey for my own personal taste.

As for yours, I am not correcting you because we each have a different POV.

IMO - elegance is an attitude - a presentation - a personal aura.

I happen to love Jeffrey's concept in the Milk Maid dress - - you have to start with a concept.

Can I see it being presented elegantly by the right woman - - absolutely.

The what you refer to as "hooker" dress - - - again bare bones concept. Developing a base idea - - - is what design is all about.

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 04:30 PM

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I truly question "What is Elegance"?

IMO - Elegance is an aura - how a woman presents herself - how she makes guests feel special - how she presents herself as regal wearing JC Penneys and makes every commoner feel worthy and equal.

A truly elegant woman could wear Jeffrey's "milkmaid" dress with radiants as if it just won the Oscar of fashion.

Elegants is not the "little black dress" - and its cousins "little black dress with Ostrich feathers" - "little black dress with beads" - "little black dress with rhinestones" - "little black dress covered in lace"

elegance is surely not Jeffrey's cocktail "hooker" dress or his milk maid dress. I think Laura comes a lot closer than Jeffrey for my own personal taste.

As for yours, I am not correcting you because we each have a different POV.

Uli's couture gown was elegant, but her tropical safari runway feels very primal. It gives the woman an "authority" from nature more than city sophistication.

Jeffrey's editorial dress was in no way a "milkmaid" dress. It was pretty but subversive. It reminded me of his recycled paper dress triumph. Of course, a woman with Heidi's measurements might have stretched the demure front to make it look like a costumey milkmaid get-up, but as it was, it was a cross between innocence and jaded.
It showed a depth that made me think twice about Jeffrey, especially coming after his Appalachian hooker cocktail dress.
notevayas

Notey you forgot IMO. Because IMO it was indeed a milkmaid dress. Sorry but I am allowed to have a point of view also. I don't see what is "subversive" about it but then compared to you I am undoubtedly limited and my opinion unworthy.

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 04:32 PM

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I truly question "What is Elegance"?

IMO - Elegance is an aura - how a woman presents herself - how she makes guests feel special - how she presents herself as regal wearing JC Penneys and makes every commoner feel worthy and equal.

A truly elegant woman could wear Jeffrey's "milkmaid" dress with radiants as if it just won the Oscar of fashion.

Elegants is not the "little black dress" - and its cousins "little black dress with Ostrich feathers" - "little black dress with beads" - "little black dress with rhinestones" - "little black dress covered in lace"

elegance is surely not Jeffrey's cocktail "hooker" dress or his milk maid dress. I think Laura comes a lot closer than Jeffrey for my own personal taste.

As for yours, I am not correcting you because we each have a different POV.

IMO - elegance is an attitude - a presentation - a personal aura.

I happen to love Jeffrey's concept in the Milk Maid dress - - you have to start with a concept.

Can I see it being presented elegantly by the right woman - - absolutely.

The what you refer to as "hooker" dress - - - again bare bones concept. Developing a base idea - - - is what design is all about.

Base as in low? I see nothing about his ideas in his two final offerings that is in any way interesting. We will just agree to disagree on this. But you can stuff the superior attitude.
I dont care how old you are.

IronChef

October 18, 2006 - 04:37 PM

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LOL! It does remind me a little of that old "WKRP in Cincinnati" ep where the local cop wanted to prove that all folks who'd consumed alcohol had delayed reaction times. Of course, the cop's big mistake was in using Dr. Johnny Fever as his subject! Johnny actually got faster the more he drank, and he proved the "theory" wrong in spades!

Lia

Is this show in syndication? Where can I watch it? I still remember the posts about the turkeys not flying.. it sounds funny.
notevayas

As far as I know, WKRP isn't in syndication, and it's not yet available on DVD. I get most of my info on TV DVD releases at http://www.tvshowsondvd.com. You can join and vote for the shows you'd like to see released on DVD, and you can get news and updates on what's out there and upcoming.

As a dedicated firsthand TV junkie from the 70's on, there are lots of shows I'd love to see released, including "WKRP."

Join and vote, or just plain join, but it's a great place to learn about what's available, and what might be in the future!

Lia

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 04:39 PM

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I believe that Jeffery outsourced his work, probably to his employees. He didn't have the finishing skills on his runway clothes, either. Plus, if you read some of the other sites, Jefferys mom told Lauras mom that Tim had concerns because Jeffery hardly had anything completed when he visited. Yet, when he shows up for the runway show a short time later, he had so much completed. He even had extra pieces made, that he said he might not use. Also during the time he was working on his collection, he was doing work for his own company. The LA Times did a story on him, and he said he made clothes for David Navarro to wear on the Supernova tv show.... besides other pieces for other stars.

So, I completely believe that he outsourced his work. I think that Laura is brave for bringing it up. I also think she has guts, and class, to tell him that she talked to tim.

I agree with you. I feel he did have work done, and I feel sorry for Laura because she is taking the brunt of the attacks. The best thing to do is just enjoy the final without worrying who wins. I think Laura has the best designs but I think actually she took the most risk, presenting a look based on classic elegance in an era where this is not in vogue.

I take my hat off to her but I don't wear one

oscarsimon

October 18, 2006 - 04:46 PM

Quote:

I believe that Jeffery outsourced his work, probably to his employees. He didn't have the finishing skills on his runway clothes, either. Plus, if you read some of the other sites, Jefferys mom told Lauras mom that Tim had concerns because Jeffery hardly had anything completed when he visited. Yet, when he shows up for the runway show a short time later, he had so much completed. He even had extra pieces made, that he said he might not use. Also during the time he was working on his collection, he was doing work for his own company. The LA Times did a story on him, and he said he made clothes for David Navarro to wear on the Supernova tv show.... besides other pieces for other stars.

So, I completely believe that he outsourced his work. I think that Laura is brave for bringing it up. I also think she has guts, and class, to tell him that she talked to tim.

Of course I don't know if Jeffrey outsourced or not.

However - there is no way he would have the business he has today if he was a slacker.

I personally believe Jeffrey has the skills. I personally believe he would have to have the skills to build the business he has.

In today's world - - most top line designers - - do not execute the construction of their designs.

But - - Jeffrey is not one of those designers. He did have to start at bare bones and build from there - - - so I do think he has the skills.

Did he have enough time??? That is the important question.

From what I have seen of Jeffrey on Project Runway - - - he gets down to business - - he doesn't waste time - - he seems very adept at focusing his time and efforts.

Forget editing - - - I give props to Jeffrey for time management and focus.

OK - - this is my last post on ep 1 - - moving to ep 2

notevayas

October 18, 2006 - 04:54 PM

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Notey you forgot IMO. Because IMO it was indeed a milkmaid dress. Sorry but I am allowed to have a point of view also. I don't see what is "subversive" about it but then compared to you I am undoubtedly limited and my opinion unworthy.

Tam, everything I type is IMO. I sprinkle them in a post for emphasis, but they are sort of redundant.

Heidi was the one who first called Jeffrey's editorial dress "milkmaid" in the judging. I just thought maybe she was imagining stuffing herself into that dress that would not flatter her.
I will try to explain why I said subversive, but try not to laugh as I'm not sure I can put words on it. I am from Massachusetts and from a small town that prides itself on it's farming past and it's Revolutionary War history. To make a dress in red white and blue, the colours of the flag, and have it be on one level traditional, and yet have elements of rebellion.. the satiny top, the unconventional shape of skirt. I like the subtlety of it, because I do not believe that we have a right to disrespect the flag, but I like to disrespect the sometimes "false piety" that has people wearing red white and blue as a political statement when they don't bother to vote.
And Tam, you are a world traveller, and a college graduate. I am neither, so don't belittle yourself, even jokingly ok?

notevayas

brillke

October 18, 2006 - 04:57 PM

Your opinion is very worthy tam. Have some PR punch kiddo, its all good. We had this "talk" about opinions recently and if I remember correctly, feel free to let it flow. Nothing is out of bounds. Dont forget to leave us an email addy before ya go home, k?

brillke

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 05:02 PM

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Notey you forgot IMO. Because IMO it was indeed a milkmaid dress. Sorry but I am allowed to have a point of view also. I don't see what is "subversive" about it but then compared to you I am undoubtedly limited and my opinion unworthy.

Tam, everything I type is IMO. I sprinkle them in a post for emphasis, but they are sort of redundant.

Heidi was the one who first called Jeffrey's editorial dress "milkmaid" in the judging. I just thought maybe she was imagining stuffing herself into that dress that would not flatter her.
I will try to explain why I said subversive, but try not to laugh as I'm not sure I can put words on it. I am from Massachusetts and from a small town that prides itself on it's farming past and it's Revolutionary War history. To make a dress in red white and blue, the colours of the flag, and have it be on one level traditional, and yet have elements of rebellion.. the satiny top, the unconventional shape of skirt. I like the subtlety of it, because I do not believe that we have a right to disrespect the flag, but I like to disrespect the sometimes "false piety" that has people wearing red white and blue as a political statement when they don't bother to vote.
And Tam, you are a world traveller, and a college graduate. I am neither, so don't belittle yourself, even jokingly ok?

notevayas

I have yet to finish my studies I have not graduated.
I am TRYING not to laugh at your description because I think you are reaching a bit Notey. Really. I am just tired of all the apologizing revisionist self editing everyone is doing for Jeffrey he does not merit it.

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 05:04 PM

Quote:

Your opinion is very worthy tam. Have some PR punch kiddo, its all good. We had this "talk" about opinions recently and if I remember correctly, feel free to let it flow. Nothing is out of bounds. Dont forget to leave us an email addy before ya go home, k?

brillke

I will most definitely And my home is always open to you, Notey, AI, Damsel, Carole, Mainer etc.

All this english is giving me a headache lol

MaureenKennedy

October 18, 2006 - 05:26 PM

TAm - where did Jeff talk about having pleating done on anything other than the leather shorts?

BTW - as far as Laura calling Jeff to tell him how terrible the posts here thought of him - did you catch Uli's remark to Jeff as he came in the door from airport "Well did they throw eggs at you in LA?"

tamarinden

October 18, 2006 - 05:29 PM

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TAm - where did Jeff talk about having pleating done on anything other than the leather shorts?

BTW - as far as Laura calling Jeff to tell him how terrible the posts here thought of him - did you catch Uli's remark to Jeff as he came in the door from airport "Well did they throw eggs at you in LA?"

Yes I did think that was funny when she said that I guess if Uli had brought up the possibility that Jeffrey had outsourced his clothing then she would be the new satan too?

I only remember that Jeffrey says in the bonus video on rungay that he sent things out for pleating I am not sure what it was.

mainer

October 18, 2006 - 05:45 PM

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I truly question "What is Elegance"?

IMO - Elegance is an aura - how a woman presents herself - how she makes guests feel special - how she presents herself as regal wearing JC Penneys and makes every commoner feel worthy and equal.

A truly elegant woman could wear Jeffrey's "milkmaid" dress with radiants as if it just won the Oscar of fashion.

Elegants is not the "little black dress" - and its cousins "little black dress with Ostrich feathers" - "little black dress with beads" - "little black dress with rhinestones" - "little black dress covered in lace"

elegance is surely not Jeffrey's cocktail "hooker" dress or his milk maid dress. I think Laura comes a lot closer than Jeffrey for my own personal taste.

As for yours, I am not correcting you because we each have a different POV.

agree again tamarinden, i loed the comment oscar award winning lol... any stars that worn way out clothes to any award ceremony were quickly put on the worst dress list with comments what were they thinking. elegence is even angelas black dress way over anything that jeffery made.
i thought his couture dress was trashy with the slip to the crotch, n i see in one of his dresses again the slit is to the crotch. elegence is simple,classy not trashy.
his appeal will only seel to a few not the masses who want to look good with any hint of class.

alice

FloppiteeFlip

October 18, 2006 - 05:52 PM

DID ANYONE NOTICE THAT JEFFREY'S MODELS WEREN'T WEARING THE BLONDE WIGS HE HAD PICKED OUT FOR THEM....PERHAPS THE PICTURES ONLINE WERE STAGED TO THROW PEOPLE OFF THE SCENT....

kcjic25

October 18, 2006 - 05:58 PM

Thank you, excellent comments.
I have always found the concept of reality TV appalling and ridiculous--but I got sucked in to The Runway, and the same thing has happened to many of my beloved family and friends. We still find it amazing that we watch and care about such a thing, but we unabashedly admit we love the show. And none of us are "bloggers" or adept at on-line participation in commentary regarding a TV show, but I had to figure out how to do this thing because I'd read that Laura was getting a lot of bashing about her going to Tim about her suspicions about Jeffrey. It is absurb that she has taken such a beating on this matter.
1) It takes courage to speak out in a situation such as was presented on the show. And Laura was forthcoming to Jeffrey about her having talked with Tim, and what her concerns were. Also, it was apparent that the other remaining designers were feeling the same way...they said as much, anyway.
2) Is there something written in the Project Runway rules that states previous substance abuse and a tragic childhood grants immunity through the entire competition? I could tell a harrowing story and whip up some tears and maybe I could win the competition, too.
3) What's the deal about nobody liking a "rat"? Sociopaths and other world-class manipulators bank on decent people being afraid of being a "tattle-tale".

It's unfortunate that Laura has had so many judgements made against her and I write this to point out that there are many people who have been watching the show and feel she was justified in expressing her concerns. It must also be said that not all people express their feelings on-line, so any "polling" done based on message board postings is absolutely not a reflection of the status quo. It is only an indication of the feelings of people who take the time to post a message.

bobbin

October 18, 2006 - 06:55 PM

does anyone know the song artist name and the title of the song is Jeffrey's runway show??

31105

October 18, 2006 - 07:35 PM

Jeffrey deserved the win and I'm so excited that he got it...I was estatic that he won and I can't wait to see his stuff in Elle...Jeffrey is amazing!!!

Aquarius78

October 18, 2006 - 09:21 PM

I haven't been through all the threads, or been an active member of this community, but I love this show, and must say that I am completely outraged by Laura's attack on Jeff! She has no founded evidence to make such an attack, and how dare she try to ruin this mans reputation after all this ,and at the near end of it all. Regardless of the winner they've all "made it" by being at Bryant Park, and makin it to the end of the show. Can he help that unlike Laura he doesn't have 5 children, that he's not pregnant, and that he's been a professional designer for several years now? The nerve of that ICE WITCH saying that he couldn't have done such perfection! I never liked her personality at all, but respected her prior to this attack. Now I strike that entirely for she "did/said/acted" in the most malicious way that Jeff had constantly been perceived to be, but never actually was. So he wasn't there to make friends, or care about the others on the show, I wouldn't either if you gave me life changing creative challenges with 24-48 hours to create and execute each week. But He's a damn good designer, and deserves the credit for his talent that's coming his way!

~ Sincerely,
Disappointed and pissed off in AZ.

ArtInstigator

October 19, 2006 - 08:14 PM

Dear Actor59,
I am so sorry for your loss. How devastating to lose two friends at the same time. I have been trying to make sense of what you must be going through, but honestly, I can't get my brain around it. It's senseless. I have thought of you since reading your post yesterday. I pray you have in your life whatever you need to heal. My heart goes out to you. Much love to you and yours,
Art Instigator

actor59

October 19, 2006 - 10:04 PM

Thank you AI,
Unfortunately it was three friends I lost yesterday. Two of them were on the National news yesterday..a very bizzare story by any standards. The other one has been in the morgue for the last 10 days that one hurt my soul the most. Still getting over the shock of the last day. Tried to reply to you on the other board but it is a mad house there LOl.

ArtInstigator

October 19, 2006 - 10:29 PM

Yeah, that thread is quite heated at times, not much fun with all the bashing and crashing going on! I'm so sorry to learn it was three friends, hang in there, man. The news of your friend in the morgue reminded me of Bear's hotel suicide story, but sadder. Let me/us know if there is any topic or kind of story you would like to see on the board.
AI

TuraSantana

November 2, 2007 - 05:44 PM

Laura was a complete c*nt for maliciously going behind jeffreys back .. I mean what did she hope to accomplish ? I remain certain she still wouldn't have won regardless.... I was never a fan of her clothes, but now she proves that she doesn't belong there , she doesn't have what it takes and the moment she feels threatened she has to resort to coniving tactics.. Say what you will about the few stitches that were added or whatever , but it was really trivial and definantly not worth going behind his back ( a chicken [email="sh@t"]sh@t[/email] thing to do) and notifying tim and the producers.. Nothing came about it anyway so the end result being him going through alot of grief for nothing because of her weak execution and pathetic spite..

Spend more time making good clothes instead of baby's bit*h, Let your work , not your desperation, speak for you.

IronChef

November 2, 2007 - 07:34 PM

QUOTE (TuraSantana @ November 2, 2007 - 06:44 PM)

Laura was a complete c*nt for maliciously going behind jeffreys back .. I mean what did she hope to accomplish ?

My guess is that she hoped to win the competition. And when it all comes down to grit and brass tacks (or in this case, buttons and brass bobbins), the operative word is "competition." You do what you have to in a competition in order to get ahead--it doesn't have to be popular, it doesn't have to win you friends, and it doesn't even necessarily have to be scrupulous, it just has to get results. I wasn't a Laura supporter throughout the season, but what she did didn't make her a c*nt, it just made her a competitor, that's all.

QUOTE

I remain certain she still wouldn't have won regardless.... I was never a fan of her clothes, but now she proves that she doesn't belong there , she doesn't have what it takes and the moment she feels threatened she has to resort to coniving tactics.. Say what you will about the few stitches that were added or whatever , but it was really trivial and definantly not worth going behind his back ( a chicken [email="sh@t"]sh@t[/email] thing to do) and notifying tim and the producers.. Nothing came about it anyway so the end result being him going through alot of grief for nothing because of her weak execution and pathetic spite..

The fact that Laura made it to the final 4 and to Fashion Week speaks more volumes about her relative talent than anything else, so think what you want about her, and call her all the names in any lexicon you want, but the judges found her (just like Michael and Uli and Jeffrey) deserving and meritous enough to design, make and show a collection at Fashion Week. That's a lot more fashion clout than I'll ever have, so as far as I'm concerned, Laura did a pretty good job for herself, and I'm giving her credit where I think credit's due. I have to say it, I don't think Jeffrey's behavior throughout the season was angelic either--I think he was a bona fide a$$hole a lot of the time, but the judges found his work meritous of the win, so kudos to him. But I do not think what Laura did by calling him into question for what she perceived as a possible mis-step was necessarily wrong.

QUOTE

Spend more time making good clothes instead of baby's bit*h ...

I'm ... I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you meant by that statement. Baby's b*tch?

EDIT: Oh, wait, I think I just realized what you meant. It's just that there wasn't a comma after "baby's," and since "baby's" had an apostrophe, I assumed it was possessive, when it really wasn't at all. So, what you actually meant, I'm assuming, was "spend more time making good clothes instead of [making] babies, b*tch ..." Yes??

QUOTE

Let your work , not your desperation, speak for you.

I think that's exactly what she did, or at least tried to do. It just so happened that her work, in the instance of S3, wasn't as good as Jeffrey's, at least in the eyes of the judges.

BestStarmetter

October 1, 2009 - 02:17 AM

at least thats what Sylar said.
Can we trust Sylar?

Personally, from what Mohinder was saying,
I thought he was calling Thompson at the OWI.
He didnt really get a chance to explain, though.

I guess well just have to wait and see if the episode reveals more.
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albertreyes1214

November 24, 2009 - 10:38 PM

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