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WhataJoke
January 21, 2007 - 05:35 PM
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Since Marcel has not done anything (that we've seen) criminal for which he can be charged, again, the comparison is inappropriate. Sam, Ilan, Cliff and Elia have either assaulted Marcel or participated (via collaborating and co-conspiring) in the assault. Therefore, they could be charged with a crime and/or have a civil suit filed against them.



So you wouldn't be opposed to me filing a slander/libel suit aginst you for calling me a liar?

Good to know..

lol





Again, you are trying to compare two different situations and then draw a parallel between them.

There are profound differences between a physical assault bo colleagues vs. opinions shared in a posting environment.

But I'm sure you realize that, Brillke. You are simply looking for any excuse to attack me, and it has left you looking like WhatAJoke, on more levels than one.

Indeed, your spinning and mischaracterizations has reached the point that I no longer have confidence in anything that is on your website. I have no confidence that the transcripts of interviews actually reflect what was said, or whether it's been spun to the benefit of your favorites. I can't help believe that your WhatAJoke mindset in posting won't have infiltrated your blog, making it a WhatAJoke blog, as well.

I hope, if we meet again on other Bravo messageboards, that you have stabilized again. I know you predicted that it would get nasty on the boards towards the end of the show, but I had no idea that you would be such an instigator of it.

I would rather not do this, but I'm going to put you on "ignore," as well. There is no reason to read your posts when it's clear that all you want to do is attack me. Maybe that's your style, but it's not mine.

For the record, I'm going to try to remember to add, at the bottom of my posts, the names of the posters on "ignore" so that there will be no confusion on the boards when it becomes clear that I'm not responding to your attacks.

=======================
IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke



Nobody is attacking you Amazon, I'm just stating fact. You called me a liar were proved wrong and refuse to admit it because you have no honor or class.

HMMMMM remember your assessment of the Bush "Family"?
You said they deny any wrongdoing they are guilty of and then accuse their opposition of similar wrongdoing?
Welcome to the Family Amazon. Say hi to Barbara for me.
brillke
January 21, 2007 - 05:35 PM
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This is great. There's a poll on www.tv.com for America's favorite top chef. Marcel has become America's sweetheart. (Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).

http://www.tv.com/feature/top-chef/?tag=to...opslot;action;2

Right now:

Marcel 77%
Elia 11%
Sam 6%
Ilan 6%

Ilan was at 1% but must have heard and is now feverishly trying to make up. It's pretty funny. You can see the numbers change real time.

Great way to get out your frustrations and exercise your click finger.




----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html







Thanks for the link. Voted a few times for Sam so guess I will give a few to Ilan later.


brillke
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 05:36 PM
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Also, don't know if anybody has mentioned this or not, but isn't it interesting how Sam accuses Marcel of the very things that Sam himself is the most guilty of? Arrogance, immaturity, selfishness. So far Sam hasn't accused Marcel of being an instigator, but we still have one more episode to go.




Well, I think the funniest thing, funny in the sense of funny-ironic-weird, is that here are these people all telling Marcel to get lost...in fact it was Sam that sreamed at him at the store to literally stay away from them....and then, when he does just that...goes off on his own to sleep ....they go out of their way to find him and assault him.

THAT is whack-o!

I've yet to see a sleeping gnat bother anyone.

Carry on!
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 05:37 PM
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Youd think we could agree to disagree, wouldnt ya? Go back and look at who is doing the most bashing. It aint the non Marcel fans doing the most, I assure you. Amazon has made it an art form to bash, even if she is dead wrong and proven to be so, yet continue on as if she is that God Warrior from Trading Spouses or whatever it was called.



It's only natural that X percent of people are going to pull for Marcel because he is most decidedly they underdog. That's completely understandable. But some of these folks cross the line of sanity into Conspiracy City.



People who poo-poo conspiracy theories are often the ones who benefit most from trying to deny a conspiracy exists.

Conspiracies, large and small, occur every day. When three teenage girls agree to secretly exclude one of their four-friend group from a common activity, that's a conspiracy. When a government invades another country based on lies told to the public, that's a conspiracy. It happens all the time.

To even try to denigrate "conspiracy theories" on a board about Top Chef is ridiculous. Ilan has actively conspired with others to get Marcel thrown off the show. Sam, Ilan, Elia and Cliff conspired to assault Marcel. Elia herself urged a conspiracy where they all would shave their heads and Marcel would be left with a full head of hair.

And the production staff has certainly opened itself wide to conspiracy theories.





Says the woman who works with plants and wears a aluminum foil helmet.




You know what WAJ..This will be the first and last time I ever do this...Peeps who continually argue with other peeps are just as bad as the peeps they are calling out to me...You may find this to be a verbal game of who is wittier.... smarter and more adept with the keyboard..But if you don't like Amazon.......why keep at her???

You must enjoy this somewhow so don't [expletive deleted] about it
if Amazon does it...It is getting far too nasty for me and it hurts to read this to tell you the truth....We need not hate so much no matter who started it..But I shall just
ignore and scroll on down the road and mind my own biz as I usually do cause life is just a bit too LONG to read anymore of this sh&t!!!!

And now I can understand why YOU like the Crack Pack...lol






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Yes, WAJ makes it a point to insult Amazon at every chance he can. Why? He was called a liar twice and even though he has proven he was not a liar and Amazon wrong, she cannot admit her mistakes. No, shed rather ride my ass for a mistake Ive apologized for and corrected.



This is what you're reduced to? Full-on attack of another poster? I know your disappointment in the actions of your Golden Boy must be a bitter pill to swallow, but turn your anger where it belongs...on him. He's the one who let you down, not me.

In the first place, I quite reading WAJ's posts a long time ago (unless they are included in a long series for quote, in which case it doesn't indicate all of the previous authors of quotes...but his style is pretty easy to pick out).

Second, WAJ picked me out as a target a long time ago. For you to indicate that the "lies" are the only reason I am not responding to him is "mischaracterizing" the reality of it. Obviously, if I haven't read his accusations of lying, then it was what he did before that triggered me to put him on ignore.

Third, you do not build your own credibility by propping up your favortites, especially when they are like WAJ. But then, you back Sam, don't you? And we know what kind of moral character he has.

Fourth, if you don't want to get thrown back at you what you've so eagerly spewed, then don't spew it in the first place. You really don't have a lot of high ground to stand on, you know.

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Is WAJ going too far? Maybe but its his right just as it is Amazons right to compare the chefs to sex offenders and wish them no future employment. The hate spewing from Amazons keyboard is every bit as wrong as the stupid prank gone horribly wrong committed by Cliff. Her fascination with Sam alone borderlines obsession.



Again, more of your "mischaracterizations." Please quote where I have compared the Assault Brigade to sex offenders. There are some similarities between sexual assaults and nonsexual assaults, which I have discussed: the "blaming the victim" mentality and the effects experienced by the victim afterwards.

Please quote where I have wished them no further employment. Really, your addiction to "mischaracterization" is apalling. I've discussed the possibility of someone involved in an assault on a colleague being employed again, and questioned whether their future employment will be harmed by their own actions. But I've NEVER wished them to not be employed.

And to state that what I post as the same as what Ilan, Sam, Cliff and Elia did to Marcel is freaking BIZARRE. You are in WAJ-land now.

I'M obsessed with Sam? Look in the mirror to see who is obsessed with Sam.

Say, did you ever figure out the answer to the question I posed to you which I've not seen you answer yet: "Do you believe that the actions of Cliff, Sam, Ilan and Elia in assaulting Marcel are those of a top chef?" If your answer is "no," then a follow-up question: "Then why do you still support them going to Hawaii?"

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I guess I am a Crack Pack supporter too,

brillke



IMO, yes, you are. You've also descended to the level of What a Joke.

Again, you write a blog. Do you believe showing your real "WhatAJoke" side to the public is a good reflection on you and the professionalism of your blog?



Shazam! I can't even begin to ferret out whose "voice" is whose anymore in the above. As creepily cliched as it sounds, if we can't all forgive and forget, couldn't we at least just live and let live?



After pages and pages of brillke doing nothing but attack me, you post to me to "live and let live"? Where were you when brillke was repeatedly attacking me?

--------------------------
IGNORE: WhatAJoke, Brillke
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 05:40 PM
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This is great. There's a poll on www.tv.com for America's favorite top chef. Marcel has become America's sweetheart. (Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).

http://www.tv.com/feature/top-chef/?tag=to...opslot;action;2

Right now:

Marcel 77%
Elia 11%
Sam 6%
Ilan 6%

Ilan was at 1% but must have heard and is now feverishly trying to make up. It's pretty funny. You can see the numbers change real time.

Great way to get out your frustrations and exercise your click finger.




----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html







Thanks for the link. Voted a few times for Sam so guess I will give a few to Ilan later.


brillke



Cool!
that's the beauty of free eletions!
Vote on everyone! May the best one win!!
daverocks
January 21, 2007 - 05:41 PM
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This is great. There's a poll on www.tv.com for America's favorite top chef. Marcel has become America's sweetheart. (Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).

http://www.tv.com/feature/top-chef/?tag=to...opslot;action;2

Right now:

Marcel 77%
Elia 11%
Sam 6%
Ilan 6%

Ilan was at 1% but must have heard and is now feverishly trying to make up. It's pretty funny. You can see the numbers change real time.

Great way to get out your frustrations and exercise your click finger.




----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html







Thanks for the link. Voted a few times for Sam so guess I will give a few to Ilan later.


brillke




doh! I accidently voted for Ilan! meant to hit the interview button
yeah, my eyes are pretty crossed by the way!
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 05:41 PM
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Gay dog. "Swishy." Hy-sterical.

great posts today Kristl!....alas, they aren't hearing you. best to move on!

thanks Sizz and M-[expletive deleted]!

My life has been a banquet (a la Mame)...and i never starved....burped a lot, indigestion, food poisoning herer and there, burnt toast, little oo much chanopagne, but always room for some thing sweet.

we're in midst of ice/sleet here in richmond...but my roasting chicken is in its curry brine...tons of firewood....and my doggies are snuggled at my feet....i ate my little bag of Lindt chocolates last night but need to go no-carb for a while anyway....alas. LOL.





Richmond, as in VA? I had an aunt who used to own a place in the Fan District. That was the coolest place to visit.

Sorry about the ice/sleet, but it sounds like you're well prepared.
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 05:45 PM
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doh! I accidently voted for Ilan! meant to hit the interview button
yeah, my eyes are pretty crossed by the way!




LOL. that's ok...he needs a few sympathy votes.
panzerkom
January 21, 2007 - 05:45 PM
I just wanna say Elia is so hot with her head shaved.
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 05:50 PM
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I just wanna say Elia is so hot with her head shaved.



Agreed, In fact I think both Elia and Ilan are physically very attractive...and more so with the shaved heads. Of course, beauty is as beauty does.
IronChef
January 21, 2007 - 05:53 PM
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I'm all for peace these days too, 'cause all this infighting is just plain wearing me out. It's a shame, though, that those who might favor a contestant other than Marcel at this point can't feel as welcome to be as outright about their support as those who do support Marcel. I see "Goooooo Marcel!" at the bottom of posts, and that's great, but I have to wonder what would happen if I posted "Gooooo Ilan!" (or Sam, or Elia) at the bottom of my posts. I'd probably be raked over all kinds of coals for it, labelled a "Crack Pack," "Assault Brigade" or "Bully-Gang" supporter, and I'd have people asking me how on earth I could support someone like that, and I'd be expected to defend myself for it at every turn like I'm somehow mentally and/or morally deficient.

That's just the way it is, though.

Gooooooo, Peace!



I agree IC, too much fighting. I for one am done!! AND, if you want to say GOOOOOOO ILAN or GOOOOOOO SAM, or GOOOOOOO ELIA, I won't rake you over anything!! Too be quite honest, I am not positive just WHO I want to win any more. Yes, I think what happened in the loft that night was horrible by ANY standards. Yes, I think sending Cliff home was right, he did put his hands on Marcel. Yes, I think the others should have been disaplined. How much or in what way, I don't know, but they should have been held accounable for their part. Do I think Marcel should win just because he was the "leper" of the group? Maybe. I say that because of all the people, he was the one that kept on track. He didn't let it all change how he was in the kitchen. Is he a better cook? Will never know that because I am not there to taste it. We will all have to hope that Tom, Gail, Padma and the guest judge pick the TOP CHEF on their cooking skills and ability and not on how much drama or controversy they dealt with. I have, in the past rooted for Marcel just because he WAS being picked on so much. That does not make a fair contest. However, wil defend anyones right to root for their fave, no matter who it is.
(stepping off my soap box)



I only wish our fellow posters could be so objective. Case in point (and please note that I make no reference to specific posters herein):

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"you do not build your own credibility by propping up your favortites, especially when they are like [poster's name removed]. But then, you back Sam, don't you? And we know what kind of moral character he has."



Meaning, basically, that if someone backs Sam, he or she must obviously be morally flawed.

... or

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"We've seen Sam, Ilan, Cliff and Elia as villians. There's no way you can deconstruct or spin that."



Meaning there's no way in Hell another perspective could ever be deemed acceptible.

... or

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(Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).



Meaning, apparently, that if you favor or defend those among the previously named "brat pack" (Ilan, Sam, Elia, Cliff), you must be a bottle-weilding "psycho" like the woman who hurled a bottle at Marcel, even though we still have no concrete evidence as to her exact reasons for hurling said bottle.

This kind of sanctimonious bullshizz is exactly why there's no way a non-Marcel supporter can feel truly welcome here anymore.

You guys have fun whipping out your "I'm more ascerbic than you" dicksticks. Measure 'em if you want, and claim your bragging rights, but it really makes no difference in the end. Winning an online battle is a lot like winning the yearly "Darwin Award." You may have won, but you're still an evolutionary misfit.

Yeah. Peace. Right.
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 05:53 PM
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GAS UNDER $2.00!!!! Around here, cheapes is $2.39, and that is a rare sighting!! You said something about a curry brine w/chicken. My Mom always put curry in the flour she used on her fried chicken. My WHOLE family loves it that way. Would love to know what you put in your brine.
Also, not meaning to be rude, nosy (well, maybe a little there) or intrusive, but you said you were a Jesuit monk, and gay. When so many churches condemn that lifestyle as evil, unholy, blah blah blah, I found it interesting that you were accepted so readily, especially with that darn winking!! (O: No judgement on my part..we are all God's children, and there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who couldn't hold a candle to some of the people I know that are just GOOD, KIND, HONEST people, who have never set foot in a church. Just being a little nosy. (O: If you don't feel comfortable answering, not a problem. Love your posts and generally agree with all of them.


ok...quickly...I was a candidate to be a monk, but didn't stay..8 years later, I became a Jesuit for 5 years..another series of long funny stories... but never became a priest...that takes 11-12 years. Most Catholic priests that I met were and are gay, but most are not sexually active...lots of lesbian nuns too.,..it's a big secret in the church...which, as youo can imafine, is necessarily dysfunctional on many levels...but, don't get me wrong, i also think there is much good in the church...heck, there's good to be found in all situations if you know where to look...or, better... HOW to look...ANYWAY, I thought that there was a possibilityfor change within the church, but I finally realized that the church would never change it;s teaching about women, sexuality, etc, nor could it, based on the underlying theological and philosophical tenets which arfe primarily medieval in origin and outlook.....and in th eend, I rejected those teachings but maintained my love of "God" as experoienced by mystics in all religions...be it Francis of Assissi, Rumi, Buddha or the author of The Cloud of the Unknowing.

In the end, Augustine of Hippo had one thing right: Ama et fac ut vis.

Love and do as you wish (ya just got to make sure you don't confuse love with lust, want or need).




Thank you Holster for your answer to a question that was none of my business. I actually was baptised in a Pentacostle chuch, so you can imagine what THEY though about alternative lifestyles. LOL I am surprised to hear many priests and nuns are gay/lesbians, if only because of the teachings of most churches concerning sexuality. I do not judge anyone because as they say, unless you walk in their shoes, etc etc. I believe that God looks INTO your heart, not your wallet or to see which pew you sit in on Sunday morning. My inlaws, were two of the kindest, most unselfish people I have ever met in my life. They knew no strangers, and EVERYONE was welcome in their home and concidered family. Just because they did not go to church every Sunday, I can not believe they are anywhere else but heaven because of the life they lived. It was more Christ-like than many so called Christians I have know. Thank you again for your reply.
Now, who do you hope wins TC???? (O:
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 05:54 PM
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Hello, All! I would like to ask a very sincere question. I promise I am not trying to provoke. What is it that everyone sees in Marcel that makes him so popular?





Like you, I'm honestly interested in the answers you receive, Miss O. Seriously. Other than the facts that he's been deemed the "underdog," and he's weathered some proverbial "hard knocks," I'm not sure.

I'm sure there are plenty here who will enlighten us, though.



Me too.



dang it! i just lost my post b/c of my stupid keyboard holder and leg! I hate that. okay, here we go..i'll try one more time.

Marcel isn't my favorite but here are some things I like about him.

-He's serious about his cooking and he puts his heart into it everytime (unlike Ilan who took a QF so unseriously that he tried to mock Marcel by making a foam....and slammed marcel's dish to the diners!)

-He is adventurous. It doesn't always work, but he tries new things and tries his best to impress and be innovative which I think is what he thought the competition was about. for example, the brown dish. yes, the coffee didn't look great, but it was an interesting idea to evoke a whole other sense. it might have been better if he had more time to think about it.
-His professionalism. What I mean by that is that he always was asking if people needed help (and when Sam asked him-and he asked him in a way as to pose it as a real choice-that hew ould understand if he was too busy) he very politely said no. he didn't say, no you screamed at me at the store the other day, I'm not going to help you! he didn't do it b/c he was busy working on his own plate. so he could put out the best possible product and be proud of it. Also in this category it is evident that he is used to running a kitchen. giving directives, sharing resources, giving advice to the staff. I mean, they always show how annoyingly he asks for fridges and doors to be closed, but come on....shouldn't they be? and what's wrong with saying so? and he was nice about it. to me, he is just used to being in charge. and when he was helping others he was able to take directives from them. somethign they weren't too good at with him. they hogged burners he needed, snapped at him, yelled at him, made rude comments to him, mocked his food and still he held his head up and went on. that is professionalism. and yes, I realize that maybe they felt they shouldn't be managed in the competition like they were his line cooks, but then again, they should keep fridge doors closed and then he wouldn't have to ask them.

so those are a couple of things



I agree with those observations. Also, again we saw Sam accuse Marcel of being "selfish" and "immature," when it was Sam who was actually demonstrating those two qualities.

When you ask someone to do something, they can answer one of two ways: Yes, No.

If you "ask" someone to do something and expect them to answer "yes," and then complain about it if they don't, then it wasn't "asking"--it was "demanding." And that's something that Sam did not have the right to do. He demonstrated immaturity and selfishness by expecting Marcel to not complete his own dish in order to help him (Sam), and then complaining about it afterwards, like a spoiled child who didn't get his way.

About the hogging the burners (assuming you're talking about the latest episode and Ilan using all but one burner, limiting Marcel to the number of burners he could use)...playing devil's advocate...that was a bad situation all around. As I said in a previous post, I'm quite familiar with the facility (under previous names), and the kitchen is dinky. IMO, the restaurant was a poor choice because of the unreasonably small kitchen for 5 chefs to put out 5 courses to 30 people, with each course being served at the same time.

Ilan used the burners because he needed them...it didn't look like he was using them all when he didn't need to (i.e., using small pans to occupy more burner space, just to spite Marcel).

Anybody following Ilan, who needed more than one burner, would have been in trouble. I don't know if they were allowed to ask what kind of facilities they would be cooking in, but if Ilan knew there would only be a limited number of burners and then planned something that would take up all the burners except for one, then that might be construed as selfish, but certainly within his right to do so. I mean, his top priority is turning out the best dish he can, not on making it easy for the cook following him.

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IGNORE: WhatAJoke, brillke
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 05:56 PM
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(O: Thank you my savant co-host! I didn't name anyone for that exact reason. However, have tried to straighten it out with her. If not, so be it. I know I don't like feeling like my opinion means nothing and some people just don't/won't defend themselves for whatever reason. I do see how this can get out of control. I have defended Cassie, and have not seen any more posts by her LOL Guess that shows me. BUT, I do feel good about myself so guess all is well in the land of posters. I hope it is done. At least for me it is and will not make any more comments on the subject. Besides, this savant stuff really does take a lot of time...and lawd knows I have plenty of that!! Thanks for the kudos, BTW

Actually, if you want to get technical about it, you were the one who kept on bringing it up & back to the forefront. Like I said, I did explain to he why I disagreed in the post just after the one's you've been posting. And that was the end of it. She didn't reply back. And it was you, kind sir, who kept on bringing it up. So please don't act like you don't like seeing a disagreement go on page after page. Because if that were really true then nothing should have been brought up after my last post to her.





NO NO......Peace....Back to peace...lol

Peace is a GOOD thing!!!!!

I'm buzay as Saint Marcel would say..I have my
work <scissors with the hands> cut out 4 me!!!

HOLSTER...Curry brine chix??????
You HAVE to be my gay...lol

Yummy.

Swishy is a legend on my YW site and we have Swishy sightings all the time..His fave song is
It's Raining Men.....and he has a rainbow collar
What else would he have????!!!

See yoz later....Goooooo Marcel!!!!!....lol






I'm all for peace these days too, 'cause all this infighting is just plain wearing me out. It's a shame, though, that those who might favor a contestant other than Marcel at this point can't feel as welcome to be as outright about their support as those who do support Marcel. I see "Goooooo Marcel!" at the bottom of posts, and that's great, but I have to wonder what would happen if I posted "Gooooo Ilan!" (or Sam, or Elia) at the bottom of my posts. I'd probably be raked over all kinds of coals for it, labelled a "Crack Pack," "Assault Brigade" or "Bully-Gang" supporter, and I'd have people asking me how on earth I could support someone like that, and I'd be expected to defend myself for it at every turn like I'm somehow mentally and/or morally deficient.

That's just the way it is, though.

Gooooooo, Peace!



I don't know if you would be accused of all those things, but other posters might ask you to justify your support of whomever you voiced support for.

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IGNORE: WhatAJoke, brillke
IronChef
January 21, 2007 - 05:56 PM
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We had the rat pack.....the brat pack and now Sam... Ilan
... Elia and Cliff are the CRACK PACK cause they had to be on crack to act like that the night before Hawaii and in front of Chef Ripert and with so much at stake.



Gaaaahtcha. Color me informed now, thanks, Kristl!



"Crack Pack." Love it.



I know, right? It's almost as "special" as "Bully-Gang" and "Assault Brigade," but lots more "catchy!"
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 05:57 PM
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Richmond, as in VA? I had an aunt who used to own a place in the Fan District. That was the coolest place to visit.

Sorry about the ice/sleet, but it sounds like you're well prepared.



Yep. In fact, I used to live in the Fan...on Monument Ave where they have all these hugestatues of the Confederate generals....folks still dress up as confederate rebels and march around...whatever!

Then a few years ago, they wanted to put up a statue of Arthur Ashe , who is not only from Richmond, but was refusedentry to public tennis courts because he was black...and lots of people protested the statue...talk about Whack!...the statue was put up, but unfortunatly it is ugly as all get out. There are these kids ar his feet and he looks like he's going to hitthem with a tennis racquet. When public art is bad, it's real bad!
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 06:01 PM
I'm all for peace these days too, 'cause all this infighting is just plain wearing me out. It's a shame, though, that those who might favor a contestant other than Marcel at this point can't feel as welcome to be as outright about their support as those who do support Marcel. I see "Goooooo Marcel!" at the bottom of posts, and that's great, but I have to wonder what would happen if I posted "Gooooo Ilan!" (or Sam, or Elia) at the bottom of my posts. I'd probably be raked over all kinds of coals for it, labelled a "Crack Pack," "Assault Brigade" or "Bully-Gang" supporter, and I'd have people asking me how on earth I could support someone like that, and I'd be expected to defend myself for it at every turn like I'm somehow mentally and/or morally deficient.

That's just the way it is, though.

Gooooooo, Peace!



I agree IC, too much fighting. I for one am done!! AND, if you want to say GOOOOOOO ILAN or GOOOOOOO SAM, or GOOOOOOO ELIA, I won't rake you over anything!! Too be quite honest, I am not positive just WHO I want to win any more. Yes, I think what happened in the loft that night was horrible by ANY standards. Yes, I think sending Cliff home was right, he did put his hands on Marcel. Yes, I think the others should have been disaplined. How much or in what way, I don't know, but they should have been held accounable for their part. Do I think Marcel should win just because he was the "leper" of the group? Maybe. I say that because of all the people, he was the one that kept on track. He didn't let it all change how he was in the kitchen. Is he a better cook? Will never know that because I am not there to taste it. We will all have to hope that Tom, Gail, Padma and the guest judge pick the TOP CHEF on their cooking skills and ability and not on how much drama or controversy they dealt with. I have, in the past rooted for Marcel just because he WAS being picked on so much. That does not make a fair contest. However, wil defend anyones right to root for their fave, no matter who it is.
(stepping off my soap box)



Thanks, Siz, for your objectivity! I wish we could taste the dishes, since that's really what the competition is supposed to be about. It's so much easier to "judge" from home on PR, because we all have our personal styles, and we can know by sight whether we like a designer's creation or not. With a competition that's "taste-centric," it's not a sense that translates well over TV, and it's such a super subjective sense to begin with, so it's a hard criteria for viewers to gauge, simply by its subjective nature alone.

There's been such a backlash of everyone but Marcel, and while I don't feel he should win by virtue of being the "leper" of the group, I don't think the others should be villified as roundly as they have either. If Marcel's food is superior, then he should win, but if someone else's cuisine is superior, then he or she should win, regardless of their juvenile behavior off camera.

I think everyone already knows whose T-shirt I'm wearing (and not necessarily for the reasons y'all think), so I'm still gonna go with ...

... Goooooo Peace!!!!!



LMAO. To be honest, I like the "I'm not your [expletive deleted], [expletive deleted]" and "It's not Crap on a Plate" which neither one is associated with current cheftestants, I just like the shirts.

I can't wait for Wed, but then will just be saying, "I can't wait for next week", and after that will be "can't wait for next season" lol, so it seems I will just be waiting forever, for one thing or another.
So,until Wed, lets all just get along!!!
daverocks
January 21, 2007 - 06:02 PM
I think sometimes I just see things differently. I will have to watch it again(as I do have them recorded) but it seemed the ones he wanted to remove andheat were pans that had been emptied and Ilan jumped on him. but I don't know, perhaps I just wasn't seeing everything. it's like the toiletries thing. I didn't see it as bragging, I thought he was talking about the poor condition of his workspace. who knows though, right. but what you say is a good point. that was a very tiny place to cook in. which is why marcel asked everyone to keep the doors closed and also why he asked if veggies sitting in the sink had to be there. if someone isn't washing them and someone needs to then they should be moved.
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 06:03 PM
Quote:

Quote:



GAS UNDER $2.00!!!! Around here, cheapes is $2.39, and that is a rare sighting!! You said something about a curry brine w/chicken. My Mom always put curry in the flour she used on her fried chicken. My WHOLE family loves it that way. Would love to know what you put in your brine.
Also, not meaning to be rude, nosy (well, maybe a little there) or intrusive, but you said you were a Jesuit monk, and gay. When so many churches condemn that lifestyle as evil, unholy, blah blah blah, I found it interesting that you were accepted so readily, especially with that darn winking!! (O: No judgement on my part..we are all God's children, and there are a lot of people who call themselves Christians who couldn't hold a candle to some of the people I know that are just GOOD, KIND, HONEST people, who have never set foot in a church. Just being a little nosy. (O: If you don't feel comfortable answering, not a problem. Love your posts and generally agree with all of them.


ok...quickly...I was a candidate to be a monk, but didn't stay..8 years later, I became a Jesuit for 5 years..another series of long funny stories... but never became a priest...that takes 11-12 years. Most Catholic priests that I met were and are gay, but most are not sexually active...lots of lesbian nuns too.,..it's a big secret in the church...which, as youo can imafine, is necessarily dysfunctional on many levels...but, don't get me wrong, i also think there is much good in the church...heck, there's good to be found in all situations if you know where to look...or, better... HOW to look...ANYWAY, I thought that there was a possibilityfor change within the church, but I finally realized that the church would never change it;s teaching about women, sexuality, etc, nor could it, based on the underlying theological and philosophical tenets which arfe primarily medieval in origin and outlook.....and in th eend, I rejected those teachings but maintained my love of "God" as experoienced by mystics in all religions...be it Francis of Assissi, Rumi, Buddha or the author of The Cloud of the Unknowing.

In the end, Augustine of Hippo had one thing right: Ama et fac ut vis.

Love and do as you wish (ya just got to make sure you don't confuse love with lust, want or need).




Not to sound silly, but who is this Hippo person and what does Ama et fac ut vis mean???? (O:
brillke
January 21, 2007 - 06:09 PM
Quote:

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I just wanna say Elia is so hot with her head shaved.



Agreed, In fact I think both Elia and Ilan are physically very attractive...and more so with the shaved heads. Of course, beauty is as beauty does.




Ive got this bald fetish.. I think they look great too.

brillke
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 06:13 PM
Quote:


I can't wait for Wed, but then will just be saying, "I can't wait for next week", and after that will be "can't wait for next season" lol, so it seems I will just be waiting forever, for one thing or another.
So,until Wed, lets all just get along!!!




Well, you know, this is how Charles Dickens made a fortune. His stories were serialized in a magazine and people were dying to ge tthe next chapter....don't some parents do that with their kids.....reading chapters of Harry Potter one at a time?
I think it's just human nature to want to be kept at the edge of your seat, even if you know the story has already been written.
Every generation and culture has their Marcel's (Harry), Betty's (Aunt Petunia) and ilan's (Draco Malfoy).

This really is a morality tale in the making.

----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 06:14 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I'm all for peace these days too, 'cause all this infighting is just plain wearing me out. It's a shame, though, that those who might favor a contestant other than Marcel at this point can't feel as welcome to be as outright about their support as those who do support Marcel. I see "Goooooo Marcel!" at the bottom of posts, and that's great, but I have to wonder what would happen if I posted "Gooooo Ilan!" (or Sam, or Elia) at the bottom of my posts. I'd probably be raked over all kinds of coals for it, labelled a "Crack Pack," "Assault Brigade" or "Bully-Gang" supporter, and I'd have people asking me how on earth I could support someone like that, and I'd be expected to defend myself for it at every turn like I'm somehow mentally and/or morally deficient.

That's just the way it is, though.

Gooooooo, Peace!



Lia...may I use this as a jumping in place? Don't have the patience to read the other 50 pages that sprang up since last night LOL!

I agree....peace on the boards? Please? All we are saying, is give peace a chance!!!! *smile* Showing my age there!

About the show? Sadly, at this point I have no favorites, no one I am rooting for, no one who stands out to me as "Wow, that could be a Top Chef".....last year I was so torn between Harold, LeeAnn and Dave!!! That made for the excitement. As to this season? None of the four remaining give me the feeling they are top chefs....don't get me wrong....they all have a strong potential to become top chefs....but they all four seem to have much to learn before being an actual "Top Chef". My take, chef by chef, if I may, with little or no focus on the horrid behavior seen last episode.....

Marcel....*sigh* There's definite skills there, and he seems to have the most focus and passion for his cooking. What appears to be lacking is a slightly wider repertoire of dishes and styles. In addition, you can't look at the "Top Chef" title without factoring in the people skills. I seriously doubt the young man rates the blanket dislike shown by his co-competitors, but there is a lack of people skills needed to pull together a truly cohesive team. With some serious work on his part, this could be developed. I get a strong sense, though, that he does have focus and passion for cooking.

Elia....again, she has some skills, but isn't coming across as having any confidence in her ability. I'm not sure what it would take for her to develop them, but right now it is probably the most glaring lack to my thinking. She seems to seriously require approval and support from her co-workers. Unfortunately, a top chef,to my thinking needs to have an internalized sense of her ability and confidence...I think it's a mistake for her to continually be seeking the approval of people who, quite frankly, are in competition with her. As shown by Mike's experience.....the support of competitors ends when it risks their own advancement.

Ilan....I'm having a hard time with this one....to me, he is honestly the "grayest" of the competitors. He's had some good cuisine, but his blatant baiting of Marcel takes the focus from his ability to be a chef. And, honestly, it also takes away from his ability to focus on his cooking. If I were asked to invest in a restaurant run by him, I'd always have a hesitancy in the back of my mind....I'd wonder what personal or personality issue would distract him from providing a quality dining experience for his customers.

Sam....*sigh* I really see some potential here, but at the same time, I see a big problem in growth...Sam doesn't seem to have the ability to accept feedback or criticism as a learning experience. What comes most immediately to mind is his defense of the watermelon/bleu cheese dish...that if a well known chef had done it, the reactions would have been different. He doesn't defend the dish based on why he thought it would work...for example "I was balancing this taste against that taste"; rather he had commented that this was a concept he'd been working on before the TC competition and thought he'd try it out. Nothing to explain what was going on in his creative process. If he had said, for example, "Well, I'd tried a variation on this, and it worked well, so I went with this variation instead" at least the judges and viewrs would have some idea of what he was trying to do. One other thing with Sam, is that I don't think he's really capable as yet of holding together a cohesive unit in his staff, or being a leader for a long period. I feel as though life still has some lessons for him before he's a Top Chef in reality, not just on television or in his own mirror.

Well, that's my take on it, agree or disagree...tell me what you think....but please? Peace? Civility? Courtesy?

:-)
Jazzie



HOT DANG GIRL!! Very impressive. I will say that I don't see ANY of them getting the respect that would be demanded of a TC in any restaurant. They just don't seem to have any leadership skills.
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 06:15 PM
Quote:

This is great. There's a poll on www.tv.com for America's favorite top chef. Marcel has become America's sweetheart. (Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).

http://www.tv.com/feature/top-chef/?tag=to...opslot;action;2

Right now:

Marcel 77%
Elia 11%
Sam 6%
Ilan 6%

Ilan was at 1% but must have heard and is now feverishly trying to make up. It's pretty funny. You can see the numbers change real time.

Great way to get out your frustrations and exercise your click finger.




----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html




Thanks for the link!!

Too bad they didn't let you vote for any of the ones already auffed. Out of those available, I voted for Marcel, just because I don't think being involved in an assault on a colleague is consistent with being a Top Chef.

These are the scores so far:
Elia: 10%
Ilan: 6%
Sam: 6%
Marcel: 78%

Interesting that Elia (10%) is ahead of Ilan (6%) and Sam (6%).

--------------------------
IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke
IronChef
January 21, 2007 - 06:15 PM
Quote:

Quote:

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Youd think we could agree to disagree, wouldnt ya? Go back and look at who is doing the most bashing. It aint the non Marcel fans doing the most, I assure you. Amazon has made it an art form to bash, even if she is dead wrong and proven to be so, yet continue on as if she is that God Warrior from Trading Spouses or whatever it was called.



It's only natural that X percent of people are going to pull for Marcel because he is most decidedly they underdog. That's completely understandable. But some of these folks cross the line of sanity into Conspiracy City.



People who poo-poo conspiracy theories are often the ones who benefit most from trying to deny a conspiracy exists.

Conspiracies, large and small, occur every day. When three teenage girls agree to secretly exclude one of their four-friend group from a common activity, that's a conspiracy. When a government invades another country based on lies told to the public, that's a conspiracy. It happens all the time.

To even try to denigrate "conspiracy theories" on a board about Top Chef is ridiculous. Ilan has actively conspired with others to get Marcel thrown off the show. Sam, Ilan, Elia and Cliff conspired to assault Marcel. Elia herself urged a conspiracy where they all would shave their heads and Marcel would be left with a full head of hair.

And the production staff has certainly opened itself wide to conspiracy theories.





Says the woman who works with plants and wears a aluminum foil helmet.




You know what WAJ..This will be the first and last time I ever do this...Peeps who continually argue with other peeps are just as bad as the peeps they are calling out to me...You may find this to be a verbal game of who is wittier.... smarter and more adept with the keyboard..But if you don't like Amazon.......why keep at her???

You must enjoy this somewhow so don't [expletive deleted] about it
if Amazon does it...It is getting far too nasty for me and it hurts to read this to tell you the truth....We need not hate so much no matter who started it..But I shall just
ignore and scroll on down the road and mind my own biz as I usually do cause life is just a bit too LONG to read anymore of this sh&t!!!!

And now I can understand why YOU like the Crack Pack...lol






====================================

Quote:

Yes, WAJ makes it a point to insult Amazon at every chance he can. Why? He was called a liar twice and even though he has proven he was not a liar and Amazon wrong, she cannot admit her mistakes. No, shed rather ride my ass for a mistake Ive apologized for and corrected.



This is what you're reduced to? Full-on attack of another poster? I know your disappointment in the actions of your Golden Boy must be a bitter pill to swallow, but turn your anger where it belongs...on him. He's the one who let you down, not me.

In the first place, I quite reading WAJ's posts a long time ago (unless they are included in a long series for quote, in which case it doesn't indicate all of the previous authors of quotes...but his style is pretty easy to pick out).

Second, WAJ picked me out as a target a long time ago. For you to indicate that the "lies" are the only reason I am not responding to him is "mischaracterizing" the reality of it. Obviously, if I haven't read his accusations of lying, then it was what he did before that triggered me to put him on ignore.

Third, you do not build your own credibility by propping up your favortites, especially when they are like WAJ. But then, you back Sam, don't you? And we know what kind of moral character he has.

Fourth, if you don't want to get thrown back at you what you've so eagerly spewed, then don't spew it in the first place. You really don't have a lot of high ground to stand on, you know.

Quote:

Is WAJ going too far? Maybe but its his right just as it is Amazons right to compare the chefs to sex offenders and wish them no future employment. The hate spewing from Amazons keyboard is every bit as wrong as the stupid prank gone horribly wrong committed by Cliff. Her fascination with Sam alone borderlines obsession.



Again, more of your "mischaracterizations." Please quote where I have compared the Assault Brigade to sex offenders. There are some similarities between sexual assaults and nonsexual assaults, which I have discussed: the "blaming the victim" mentality and the effects experienced by the victim afterwards.

Please quote where I have wished them no further employment. Really, your addiction to "mischaracterization" is apalling. I've discussed the possibility of someone involved in an assault on a colleague being employed again, and questioned whether their future employment will be harmed by their own actions. But I've NEVER wished them to not be employed.

And to state that what I post as the same as what Ilan, Sam, Cliff and Elia did to Marcel is freaking BIZARRE. You are in WAJ-land now.

I'M obsessed with Sam? Look in the mirror to see who is obsessed with Sam.

Say, did you ever figure out the answer to the question I posed to you which I've not seen you answer yet: "Do you believe that the actions of Cliff, Sam, Ilan and Elia in assaulting Marcel are those of a top chef?" If your answer is "no," then a follow-up question: "Then why do you still support them going to Hawaii?"

Quote:

I guess I am a Crack Pack supporter too,

brillke



IMO, yes, you are. You've also descended to the level of What a Joke.

Again, you write a blog. Do you believe showing your real "WhatAJoke" side to the public is a good reflection on you and the professionalism of your blog?



Shazam! I can't even begin to ferret out whose "voice" is whose anymore in the above. As creepily cliched as it sounds, if we can't all forgive and forget, couldn't we at least just live and let live?



After pages and pages of brillke doing nothing but attack me, you post to me to "live and let live"? Where were you when brillke was repeatedly attacking me?

--------------------------
IGNORE: WhatAJoke, Brillke



Sorry, I must've been fending off all those "you're a hypocrite" and "you're making me uncomfortable" and "you're trying to be a martyr" posts at the time. You know us mere mortals, we don't have the stamina or the omniscience you Olympians apparently do.

You've both been attacking each other for pages and pages. Was I supposed to take a side?

And let's not give credit where credit isn't due. I didn't post specifically to you to "live and let live." I posted it to everyone. I said "if we can't all forgive and forget, couldn't we at least just live and let live?"

That was a board-wide request, not a poster-specific one.

But, hey ... Gooooo Peace!!!
ohiotodd
January 21, 2007 - 06:16 PM
Quote:

This is great. There's a poll on www.tv.com for America's favorite top chef. Marcel has become America's sweetheart. (Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).

http://www.tv.com/feature/top-chef/?tag=to...opslot;action;2

Right now:

Marcel 77%
Elia 11%
Sam 6%
Ilan 6%

Ilan was at 1% but must have heard and is now feverishly trying to make up. It's pretty funny. You can see the numbers change real time.

Great way to get out your frustrations and exercise your click finger.




----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html






Hahahahaha!!!! I saw that thing last night..I was up and reading and just on the net(insomnia) and saw that Ilan was at about 1500 votes(less than one percent) so just for fun I clicked him(while I read) all the way up to 7 percent..just to panic the Marcel voters and get them to click more feverishly than ever! It worked. Marcel is nearing 250,000 now and about 80 percent I would guess. Someone else added later to Sam and Ilan, but they are still at only 5 percent or so now. People were online with things like, "Ilan stop voting and go to bed!" LOL!~~~
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 06:19 PM
Quote:

[quote}
Also, don't know if anybody has mentioned this or not, but isn't it interesting how Sam accuses Marcel of the very things that Sam himself is the most guilty of? Arrogance, immaturity, selfishness. So far Sam hasn't accused Marcel of being an instigator, but we still have one more episode to go.




Well, I think the funniest thing, funny in the sense of funny-ironic-weird, is that here are these people all telling Marcel to get lost...in fact it was Sam that sreamed at him at the store to literally stay away from them....and then, when he does just that...goes off on his own to sleep ....they go out of their way to find him and assault him.

THAT is whack-o!

I've yet to see a sleeping gnat bother anyone.

Carry on!



I know--can't see the reasoning for that, either. I also don't see the reason for Ilan and Sam obsessing on Marcel. Cliff, although he actually did the dirty work for the CrackPack, didn't seem so obsessed on Marcel.
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 06:21 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I just wanna say Elia is so hot with her head shaved.



Agreed, In fact I think both Elia and Ilan are physically very attractive...and more so with the shaved heads. Of course, beauty is as beauty does.



Without the hair, Elia's eyes really become dominant, don't they? She looks good either way, but different things become more startling.

I'm just glad it wasn't Marissa who shaved her head. With her long, meerkatish neck, she would have looked like an alien.
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 06:22 PM
Quote:



Not to sound silly, but who is this Hippo person and what does Ama et fac ut vis mean???? (O:



Augustine of Hippo is otherwise known as St.Augustine of the 4th century. His writings effected huge changes in the church which are srtill in effect today. Unfortunately, his writings are very misogynistic. A playboy in the last days of the roman empire who underwent a conversion.

Nevertheless, his "Ama et fac ut vis" is a gem amidst the coal.

And it means "Love and do as you wish." He meant that if your actions are always grounded in god and the basic ethical tenet of "do unto other as you would have them do unto you," your actions are probably right on the money, regardless of what anyone else says, even human law. Not for the faint hearted.
ohiotodd
January 21, 2007 - 06:22 PM
Quote:

Quote:

This is great. There's a poll on www.tv.com for America's favorite top chef. Marcel has become America's sweetheart. (Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).

http://www.tv.com/feature/top-chef/?tag=to...opslot;action;2

Right now:

Marcel 77%
Elia 11%
Sam 6%
Ilan 6%

Ilan was at 1% but must have heard and is now feverishly trying to make up. It's pretty funny. You can see the numbers change real time.

Great way to get out your frustrations and exercise your click finger.




----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html




Thanks for the link!!

Too bad they didn't let you vote for any of the ones already auffed. Out of those available, I voted for Marcel, just because I don't think being involved in an assault on a colleague is consistent with being a Top Chef.

These are the scores so far:
Elia: 10%
Ilan: 6%
Sam: 6%
Marcel: 78%

Interesting that Elia (10%) is ahead of Ilan (6%) and Sam (6%).

--------------------------
IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke



about ten thousand of Ilan's votes were mine and just for fun to get the Marcel people revved up. I was just reading and clicking and well...the clicking just kind of got addictive and before I knew it I had taken him all the way from 1500 to over 11 thousand votes..
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 06:25 PM
Quote:



Hahahahaha!!!! I saw that thing last night..I was up and reading and just on the net(insomnia) and saw that Ilan was at about 1500 votes(less than one percent) so just for fun I clicked him(while I read) all the way up to 7 percent..just to panic the Marcel voters and get them to click more feverishly than ever! It worked. Marcel is nearing 250,000 now and about 80 percent I would guess. Someone else added later to Sam and Ilan, but they are still at only 5 percent or so now. People were online with things like, "Ilan stop voting and go to bed!" LOL!~~~



LOL!! Are you serious?? Was that you??
That is TOO funny!!
I was there clickin for Marcel all night till he got to 70%.
It was hysterical.
Bad boy!!
LOL.
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 06:29 PM
I'm all for peace these days too, 'cause all this infighting is just plain wearing me out. It's a shame, though, that those who might favor a contestant other than Marcel at this point can't feel as welcome to be as outright about their support as those who do support Marcel. I see "Goooooo Marcel!" at the bottom of posts, and that's great, but I have to wonder what would happen if I posted "Gooooo Ilan!" (or Sam, or Elia) at the bottom of my posts. I'd probably be raked over all kinds of coals for it, labelled a "Crack Pack," "Assault Brigade" or "Bully-Gang" supporter, and I'd have people asking me how on earth I could support someone like that, and I'd be expected to defend myself for it at every turn like I'm somehow mentally and/or morally deficient.

That's just the way it is, though.

Gooooooo, Peace!



I agree IC, too much fighting. I for one am done!! AND, if you want to say GOOOOOOO ILAN or GOOOOOOO SAM, or GOOOOOOO ELIA, I won't rake you over anything!! Too be quite honest, I am not positive just WHO I want to win any more. Yes, I think what happened in the loft that night was horrible by ANY standards. Yes, I think sending Cliff home was right, he did put his hands on Marcel. Yes, I think the others should have been disaplined. How much or in what way, I don't know, but they should have been held accounable for their part. Do I think Marcel should win just because he was the "leper" of the group? Maybe. I say that because of all the people, he was the one that kept on track. He didn't let it all change how he was in the kitchen. Is he a better cook? Will never know that because I am not there to taste it. We will all have to hope that Tom, Gail, Padma and the guest judge pick the TOP CHEF on their cooking skills and ability and not on how much drama or controversy they dealt with. I have, in the past rooted for Marcel just because he WAS being picked on so much. That does not make a fair contest. However, wil defend anyones right to root for their fave, no matter who it is.
(stepping off my soap box)



I only wish our fellow posters could be so objective. Case in point (and please note that I make no reference to specific posters herein):

Quote:

"you do not build your own credibility by propping up your favortites, especially when they are like [poster's name removed]. But then, you back Sam, don't you? And we know what kind of moral character he has."



Meaning, basically, that if someone backs Sam, he or she must obviously be morally flawed.

... or

Quote:

"We've seen Sam, Ilan, Cliff and Elia as villians. There's no way you can deconstruct or spin that."



Meaning there's no way in Hell another perspective could ever be deemed acceptible.

... or

Quote:

(Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).



Meaning, apparently, that if you favor or defend those among the previously named "brat pack" (Ilan, Sam, Elia, Cliff), you must be a bottle-weilding "psycho" like the woman who hurled a bottle at Marcel, even though we still have no concrete evidence as to her exact reasons for hurling said bottle.

This kind of sanctimonious bullshizz is exactly why there's no way a non-Marcel supporter can feel truly welcome here anymore.

You guys have fun whipping out your "I'm more ascerbic than you" dicksticks. Measure 'em if you want, and claim your bragging rights, but it really makes no difference in the end. Winning an online battle is a lot like winning the yearly "Darwin Award." You may have won, but you're still an evolutionary misfit.

Yeah. Peace. Right.




If we could all just agree to disagree, withou getting so personal, I think the fact that some of these posts are miles long with all the quotes, would be gone. To come onto the boards and see there are 10 pages, then see that 5 of them are the same argument makes it a little boring. SOMEONE has to be the "big girl/boy" and just stop! I am sure some of the other posters are getting to where they just scroll on by...I know I do. It is just the same thing over and over again, just worded differently. Use JustMe's little saying..."end of line" and let it go! Would make it much nicer for everyone. Best I can see, nobody besides the ones directly involved ever even make comments, which makes me think that they, like me, don't even read it. JMHO, take it or leave it...ya know what I mean Jelly Bean!!
displaythis
January 21, 2007 - 06:29 PM
Quote:





I agree....peace on the boards? Please? All we are saying, is give peace a chance!!!! *smile* Showing my age there!

About the show? Sadly, at this point I have no favorites, no one I am rooting for, no one who stands out to me as "Wow, that could be a Top Chef".....last year I was so torn between Harold, LeeAnn and Dave!!! That made for the excitement. As to this season? None of the four remaining give me the feeling they are top chefs....don't get me wrong....they all have a strong potential to become top chefs....but they all four seem to have much to learn before being an actual "Top Chef". My take, chef by chef, if I may, with little or no focus on the horrid behavior seen last episode.....

Marcel....*sigh* There's definite skills there, and he seems to have the most focus and passion for his cooking. What appears to be lacking is a slightly wider repertoire of dishes and styles. In addition, you can't look at the "Top Chef" title without factoring in the people skills. I seriously doubt the young man rates the blanket dislike shown by his co-competitors, but there is a lack of people skills needed to pull together a truly cohesive team. With some serious work on his part, this could be developed. I get a strong sense, though, that he does have focus and passion for cooking.

Elia....again, she has some skills, but isn't coming across as having any confidence in her ability. I'm not sure what it would take for her to develop them, but right now it is probably the most glaring lack to my thinking. She seems to seriously require approval and support from her co-workers. Unfortunately, a top chef,to my thinking needs to have an internalized sense of her ability and confidence...I think it's a mistake for her to continually be seeking the approval of people who, quite frankly, are in competition with her. As shown by Mike's experience.....the support of competitors ends when it risks their own advancement.

Ilan....I'm having a hard time with this one....to me, he is honestly the "grayest" of the competitors. He's had some good cuisine, but his blatant baiting of Marcel takes the focus from his ability to be a chef. And, honestly, it also takes away from his ability to focus on his cooking. If I were asked to invest in a restaurant run by him, I'd always have a hesitancy in the back of my mind....I'd wonder what personal or personality issue would distract him from providing a quality dining experience for his customers.

Sam....*sigh* I really see some potential here, but at the same time, I see a big problem in growth...Sam doesn't seem to have the ability to accept feedback or criticism as a learning experience. What comes most immediately to mind is his defense of the watermelon/bleu cheese dish...that if a well known chef had done it, the reactions would have been different. He doesn't defend the dish based on why he thought it would work...for example "I was balancing this taste against that taste"; rather he had commented that this was a concept he'd been working on before the TC competition and thought he'd try it out. Nothing to explain what was going on in his creative process. If he had said, for example, "Well, I'd tried a variation on this, and it worked well, so I went with this variation instead" at least the judges and viewrs would have some idea of what he was trying to do. One other thing with Sam, is that I don't think he's really capable as yet of holding together a cohesive unit in his staff, or being a leader for a long period. I feel as though life still has some lessons for him before he's a Top Chef in reality, not just on television or in his own mirror.

Well, that's my take on it, agree or disagree...tell me what you think....but please? Peace? Civility? Courtesy?

:-)
Jazzie




Hi Jazzie,

Not disagreeing just trying to reason something out.

First you say this about Marcel-
I seriously doubt the young man rates the blanket dislike shown by his co-competitors, **but there is a lack of people skills needed to pull together a truly cohesive team.**


Then you say about elia-
Unfortunately, a top chef,to my thinking needs to have an internalized sense of her ability and confidence...I think it's a mistake for her to continually **be seeking the approval of people who, quite frankly, are in competition with her.**
****************
If it holds true that she shouldn't be seeking the approval of people who are in a competition with her, shouldn't the same reasoning be applied to Marcel in that it might be impossible for him to pull together a group of cohesive individuals with the group he's stuck with?

Peace!!
SimpleBear
January 21, 2007 - 06:31 PM
**IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke **

Don't really care to be involved that much. Most of this stuff is just insane but if you go out of your way to say who is ignored then isn't that a contradiction in terms? Haven't you gone out of your way to NOT ignore them?

<shrugs>
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 06:33 PM
Quote:

Quote:

I'm all for peace these days too, 'cause all this infighting is just plain wearing me out. It's a shame, though, that those who might favor a contestant other than Marcel at this point can't feel as welcome to be as outright about their support as those who do support Marcel. I see "Goooooo Marcel!" at the bottom of posts, and that's great, but I have to wonder what would happen if I posted "Gooooo Ilan!" (or Sam, or Elia) at the bottom of my posts. I'd probably be raked over all kinds of coals for it, labelled a "Crack Pack," "Assault Brigade" or "Bully-Gang" supporter, and I'd have people asking me how on earth I could support someone like that, and I'd be expected to defend myself for it at every turn like I'm somehow mentally and/or morally deficient.

That's just the way it is, though.

Gooooooo, Peace!



I agree IC, too much fighting. I for one am done!! AND, if you want to say GOOOOOOO ILAN or GOOOOOOO SAM, or GOOOOOOO ELIA, I won't rake you over anything!! Too be quite honest, I am not positive just WHO I want to win any more. Yes, I think what happened in the loft that night was horrible by ANY standards. Yes, I think sending Cliff home was right, he did put his hands on Marcel. Yes, I think the others should have been disaplined. How much or in what way, I don't know, but they should have been held accounable for their part. Do I think Marcel should win just because he was the "leper" of the group? Maybe. I say that because of all the people, he was the one that kept on track. He didn't let it all change how he was in the kitchen. Is he a better cook? Will never know that because I am not there to taste it. We will all have to hope that Tom, Gail, Padma and the guest judge pick the TOP CHEF on their cooking skills and ability and not on how much drama or controversy they dealt with. I have, in the past rooted for Marcel just because he WAS being picked on so much. That does not make a fair contest. However, wil defend anyones right to root for their fave, no matter who it is.
(stepping off my soap box)



I only wish our fellow posters could be so objective. Case in point (and please note that I make no reference to specific posters herein):

Quote:

"you do not build your own credibility by propping up your favortites, especially when they are like [poster's name removed]. But then, you back Sam, don't you? And we know what kind of moral character he has."



Meaning, basically, that if someone backs Sam, he or she must obviously be morally flawed.

... or

Quote:

"We've seen Sam, Ilan, Cliff and Elia as villians. There's no way you can deconstruct or spin that."



Meaning there's no way in Hell another perspective could ever be deemed acceptible.

... or

Quote:

(Unless you are a psycho bottle-weilding fan of the brat pack).



Meaning, apparently, that if you favor or defend those among the previously named "brat pack" (Ilan, Sam, Elia, Cliff), you must be a bottle-weilding "psycho" like the woman who hurled a bottle at Marcel, even though we still have no concrete evidence as to her exact reasons for hurling said bottle.

This kind of sanctimonious bullshizz is exactly why there's no way a non-Marcel supporter can feel truly welcome here anymore.

You guys have fun whipping out your "I'm more ascerbic than you" dicksticks. Measure 'em if you want, and claim your bragging rights, but it really makes no difference in the end. Winning an online battle is a lot like winning the yearly "Darwin Award." You may have won, but you're still an evolutionary misfit.

Yeah. Peace. Right.




IC, please don't ever again say that you want the fighting to stop, because you have repeatedly proven that you do not.

In addition, you quoted only from posts of people who have indicated that they believe Marcel was assaulted by Cliff, with the other three bearing some part of the responsibility for various reasons.

I signed on today to find pages and pages and pages attacking me. I post a few posts, and you choose to quote my post, but don't say anything about the others who have been in full-frontal assault for pages.

I don't have a clue who posted the "psycho" quote, but it would, again, be comparing two completely different situations...big difference between posting opinions on a message board and assaulting someone, and just because someone doesn't like Marcel on the message boards doesn't mean that they would assault him in real life.

I know the Sam/Ilan fans are having a rough time because he has shown himself to be unworthy of their loyalty, and I believe--because they cannot defend his actions--they must feel that their only last resource is to attack the messenger who criticizes what they did.

This anger needs to be directed at Sam or Ilan and not at posters who are simply posting opinions about what Sam/Ilan did.

------------------------------------------------
IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke
IronChef
January 21, 2007 - 06:33 PM
Quote:

I don't know if you would be accused of all those things, but other posters might ask you to justify your support of whomever you voiced support for.




Well, yeah. Pretty much what I said. And let's not pretend it'd be all civil and "Oh, won't you sit down and have a cuppa tea? Let's discuss this civilly, sha'nt we?"

C'mon, Guv'nor. You know it wouldn't be like that. I think, under other circumstances, you and I might actually get along, but we may never know that, will we? For now, let's just call a spade a spade, and agree to turn the other Net cheek.

Have your board battles if you will, but please do count me out from here on in. You've all worn me down and worn me out. I just don't have the stamina anymore.

Heading out to tea with Eddie Izzard
ohiotodd
January 21, 2007 - 06:33 PM
Quote:

Quote:



Hahahahaha!!!! I saw that thing last night..I was up and reading and just on the net(insomnia) and saw that Ilan was at about 1500 votes(less than one percent) so just for fun I clicked him(while I read) all the way up to 7 percent..just to panic the Marcel voters and get them to click more feverishly than ever! It worked. Marcel is nearing 250,000 now and about 80 percent I would guess. Someone else added later to Sam and Ilan, but they are still at only 5 percent or so now. People were online with things like, "Ilan stop voting and go to bed!" LOL!~~~



LOL!! Are you serious?? Was that you??
That is TOO funny!!
I was there clickin for Marcel all night till he got to 70%.
It was hysterical.
Bad boy!!
LOL.



Yes it was. the spurt(no pun intended) for Ilan that took him from 1500 to around 11000 was me. I was just clicking and got absorbed in what I was reading and then realized "[censored]! I have voted for Ilan over 10000 times!' and stopped.( I just had my hand resting and moving on the mouse to do the clicking) That clicking was addictive and I got carried away. So no, that was not Ilan home from work and clicking last night. lol

I have no idea who gave him any of the other votes he got after that.

It did seem to work as the Marcel vote just grew by a faster and faster rate..which is what I wanted anyway since he is my fave. lol
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 06:35 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

We had the rat pack.....the brat pack and now Sam... Ilan
... Elia and Cliff are the CRACK PACK cause they had to be on crack to act like that the night before Hawaii and in front of Chef Ripert and with so much at stake.



Gaaaahtcha. Color me informed now, thanks, Kristl!



"Crack Pack." Love it.



I know, right? It's almost as "special" as "Bully-Gang" and "Assault Brigade," but lots more "catchy!"



If you feel so strongly, you should bring it up with the person who coined the phrase, as well. Continuing to focus on me is not a good reflection on you.

------------------------------------------
IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 06:36 PM
Quote:

Quote:


I can't wait for Wed, but then will just be saying, "I can't wait for next week", and after that will be "can't wait for next season" lol, so it seems I will just be waiting forever, for one thing or another.
So,until Wed, lets all just get along!!!




Well, you know, this is how Charles Dickens made a fortune. His stories were serialized in a magazine and people were dying to ge tthe next chapter....don't some parents do that with their kids.....reading chapters of Harry Potter one at a time?
I think it's just human nature to want to be kept at the edge of your seat, even if you know the story has already been written.
Every generation and culture has their Marcel's (Harry), Betty's (Aunt Petunia) and ilan's (Draco Malfoy).

This really is a morality tale in the making.

----------------------------------

Hawaii Four-O
Jealousy, Betrayal, Conspracy....

http://mcrumistudio.com/hawaii4o.jpg

Marcel interview: http://www.lasvegasweekly.com/2007/01/18/feature2.html






LMAO Not only are you correct about human nature, you use my favorite books to describe it...Harry Potter. Too funny.
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 06:37 PM
Quote:

Quote:


Richmond, as in VA? I had an aunt who used to own a place in the Fan District. That was the coolest place to visit.

Sorry about the ice/sleet, but it sounds like you're well prepared.



Yep. In fact, I used to live in the Fan...on Monument Ave where they have all these hugestatues of the Confederate generals....folks still dress up as confederate rebels and march around...whatever!

Then a few years ago, they wanted to put up a statue of Arthur Ashe , who is not only from Richmond, but was refusedentry to public tennis courts because he was black...and lots of people protested the statue...talk about Whack!...the statue was put up, but unfortunatly it is ugly as all get out. There are these kids ar his feet and he looks like he's going to hitthem with a tennis racquet. When public art is bad, it's real bad!



I don't remember the Ashe statue, but I remember the food in the restaurants where we ate was out of this world.
IronChef
January 21, 2007 - 06:38 PM
Peace!
IronChef
January 21, 2007 - 06:40 PM
Peace!
Amazon
January 21, 2007 - 06:41 PM
Quote:

I think sometimes I just see things differently. I will have to watch it again(as I do have them recorded) but it seemed the ones he wanted to remove andheat were pans that had been emptied and Ilan jumped on him. but I don't know, perhaps I just wasn't seeing everything. it's like the toiletries thing. I didn't see it as bragging, I thought he was talking about the poor condition of his workspace. who knows though, right. but what you say is a good point. that was a very tiny place to cook in. which is why marcel asked everyone to keep the doors closed and also why he asked if veggies sitting in the sink had to be there. if someone isn't washing them and someone needs to then they should be moved.



Well, if you can stand to watch that episode again, then I'll take your word for the decision. I remembered seeing full pans but I also could be mistaken on that.

Yeah, the vegetables thing was strange, too. If they needed to be washed, why wasn't he washing them? And if he was through washing them, why were they still in the sink? In such a dinky kitchen, that is really incosiderate, and avoidable. Using a bunch of burners if that's what you really need to do, IMO, isn't incosiderate, unless he knew ahead of time that there would only be a limited number of burners. Still, he would be in his right to use all of them if he wanted.

I also agree on that point in your previous post...when you're sharing a kitchen, close the freaking doors on cabinets, etc. You would think these chefs were used to having mommy come up behind them and close the doors for them. Sheesh.

---------------------------------
IGNORE: WhatAJoke, brillke
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 06:42 PM
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I just wanna say Elia is so hot with her head shaved.



Agreed, In fact I think both Elia and Ilan are physically very attractive...and more so with the shaved heads. Of course, beauty is as beauty does.



Without the hair, Elia's eyes really become dominant, don't they? She looks good either way, but different things become more startling.

I'm just glad it wasn't Marissa who shaved her head. With her long, meerkatish neck, she would have looked like an alien.



ROTFLMAO Just seeing Marissa in the kitchen with her high heels and bikini was enough for me!! Shave that head and I see new villian in Grimms Fairytales!
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 06:42 PM
Quote:



Yes it was. the spurt(no pun intended) for Ilan that took him from 1500 to around 11000 was me. I was just clicking and got absorbed in what I was reading and then realized "[censored]! I have voted for Ilan over 10000 times!' and stopped.( I just had my hand resting and moving on the mouse to do the clicking) That clicking was addictive and I got carried away. So no, that was not Ilan home from work and clicking last night. lol

I have no idea who gave him any of the other votes he got after that.

It did seem to work as the Marcel vote just grew by a faster and faster rate..which is what I wanted anyway since he is my fave. lol




LOL. That just cracks me UP!
Yeahy, I was watching the comments on TWOP and they were all like...."Dayam!!!! Ilan's home from work"...and then Marcel's numbers just exploded....seems Marcel now has a huge internet following...and if TWOP is to be believed, a growing International fan base...not sure where in the world the brat pack will get a job!

Cracks me UP! LOL.
actor59
January 21, 2007 - 06:43 PM
Quote:

**IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke **

Don't really care to be involved that much. Most of this stuff is just insane but if you go out of your way to say who is ignored then isn't that a contradiction in terms? Haven't you gone out of your way to NOT ignore them?

<shrugs>



Evening Bear!

Yeah what you said..I have no idea what is going on the boards I just got on and I think I left posting about 140 or so lol...Don't have the energy to go back and read...lol

Hope all is well in your neck of the woods!

Sorry to use your space but Swiss if you are on tonight just wanted to say congrats on your Bears they gave my saints a great big whoopin today.....Good luck to them in the Super Bowl.

Well Good evening everyone.
sizzler
January 21, 2007 - 06:44 PM
Quote:

Quote:



Not to sound silly, but who is this Hippo person and what does Ama et fac ut vis mean???? (O:



Augustine of Hippo is otherwise known as St.Augustine of the 4th century. His writings effected huge changes in the church which are srtill in effect today. Unfortunately, his writings are very misogynistic. A playboy in the last days of the roman empire who underwent a conversion.

Nevertheless, his "Ama et fac ut vis" is a gem amidst the coal.

And it means "Love and do as you wish." He meant that if your actions are always grounded in god and the basic ethical tenet of "do unto other as you would have them do unto you," your actions are probably right on the money, regardless of what anyone else says, even human law. Not for the faint hearted.




Thank you again Holster. Can you tell I'm not a Catholic??? Don't really know a lot about the Saints.
Jazzie53
January 21, 2007 - 06:46 PM
Quote:



Hi Jazzie,

Not disagreeing just trying to reason something out.

First you say this about Marcel-
I seriously doubt the young man rates the blanket dislike shown by his co-competitors, **but there is a lack of people skills needed to pull together a truly cohesive team.**


Then you say about elia-
Unfortunately, a top chef,to my thinking needs to have an internalized sense of her ability and confidence...I think it's a mistake for her to continually **be seeking the approval of people who, quite frankly, are in competition with her.**
****************
If it holds true that she shouldn't be seeking the approval of people who are in a competition with her, shouldn't the same reasoning be applied to Marcel in that it might be impossible for him to pull together a group of cohesive individuals with the group he's stuck with?

Peace!!



Those are really good points, and what I guess I was looking at in each instance was something different. As explanation, my parents owned a family style Italian restaurant for 18 years, and I grew up working in it as soon as I could reach the cash register and the dishwasher....maybe that also colors my perspective. At any rate, what I was referring to
in Marcel's case, is that he appears to have a lot of confidence in his cooking ability. At the same time, we are aware of continual personality conflicts with his co-competitors. Since we aren't given a complete picture of the personality conflicts, it's hard to say how far that would hold him back. But the reality is, that personality conflicts can and will hold one back in a true "Top Chef" situation.

As to Elia....slightly different situation.....I could be very wrong, I'm not there LOL, but the feeling I've been getting is someone who has skills, but finds it hard to put herself on the line for it. Example, great idea on the hearts, but when it failed, she needed someone else to keep her moving forward. In retrospect, maybe confidence is the wrong word, she did convince Marcel to go to the diner concept. But I still don't get the impression that she is able to explain and defend criticism of her decisions and cuisine. It's a little nebulous, but I get the feeling she really needs the approval of the folks who are her competitors...hence my feeling that her confidence level was lower than I would expect from a Top Chef.

As to the cohesive team, I don't know, I just don't get a sense that anyone of the four is capable as yet in sustaining a cohesive team.
Good to be discussing the show and sharing dialogue!!!

:-)
Catch y'all after dinner, gotta go burn some rice *grin* for my guys!
Jazzie
Jazzie53
January 21, 2007 - 06:48 PM
P.S: also, a Top Chef would be in the "hiring firing" zone, and would be better able to pick and choose his team, rather than simply working with people who are actually in competition for a $10,000 prize!
:-)
Now I really gotta feed my guys, or there will a melt down in the Jazzie houselhold!
Holster
January 21, 2007 - 06:51 PM
Quote:


Don't really know a lot about the Saints.



You'll have to ask Actor about the Saints...heard they were eaten by some bears.
IronChef
January 21, 2007 - 06:54 PM
Quote:

**IGNORED: WhatAJoke, brillke **

Don't really care to be involved that much. Most of this stuff is just insane but if you go out of your way to say who is ignored then isn't that a contradiction in terms? Haven't you gone out of your way to NOT ignore them?

<shrugs>



I'll be on that "ignore" list next, Bear, mark my words. But, hey, like Tori Amos, I believe in peace.

"The Waitress"

So I want to kill this waitress
She’s worked here a year longer than I
If I did it fast, you know that’s an act of kindness

But I believe in peace
I believe in peace, [expletive deleted]
I believe in peace

I want to kill this waitress
I can’t believe this violence in mind
and is her power
all in a club sandwich

But I believe in peace
I believe in peace, [expletive deleted]
I believe in peace

I want to kill this killing wish
There’re too many stars and not enough sky
Boys all think she’s living kindness
Ask a fellow waitress
Ask a fellow waitress

I believe in peace
I believe in peace, [expletive deleted]
I believe in peace
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