Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:21 AM
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and I tried to post this thought last night, but I was too tired to make much sense. So here is my 2nd attempt.
The 4 people who assaulted Marcel (Cliff assaulted, as the others happily egged him on) may indeed one day call themselves good chefs. But after seeing them assault and degrade another person for their own twisted enjoyment; they will never be able to call themselves decent human beings.
I usually give someone til their 30 before those calls....sins of youth and all...plus the childhood of Americans runs about that long. So Frank and Betty, yes; The brat pack...esp Ilan the Terrible and Elia the Quitter...can still atone. I wonder if that's why Cliff grew his hair and moustache..a disguise??
Holster, did you even make it to bed (I could say the same about myself)? You were here late last night and now you're back again early this morning.
LOL No. I'm working on a job and it's been a several all-nighter...photoshop/TC/photoshop/TC/photoshop/TC etc etc
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 05:28 AM
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Nope, not Betty, but with the way this show is being run/judged, i really have a new appreciation for all she and Amy and Marissa were going through. Otto, feh, but Amy should've really stuck around. Giving Elia a "gimme" and eliminating herself was a MAJOR mistake. She (Amy) has more talent in her nail clippings than Elia has in her entire being. : /
KINJIRU, And it's NOT "Attack Dog", it's "MISTER ATTACK DOG"! ; )
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THE JUDGES ARE MENTALLY DEFICIENT!
OH MY GOD! HOW BLIND CAN YOU BE?!
The backwards alien, Marcel, fails when put to the brass tacks, and is advancing by default actions, NOT SKILL. He's about as talented a chef as the guy at Denny's down the road!
FEH!
DOUBLE-FEH!
Thank GOD i remove the commercials when i watch stuff. No way Bravo deserves a cent for putting this biased, pseudo-yuppy butt-kissing on the air. : '(
AT LEAST THE NEXT SHOW THEY ELIMINATE *2* (and i'll bet just about anything it's Sam Vs "The Precious li'l antichrist himself"). : '(
KINJIRU
OOOOH! THAT'S WHY HIS HAIR IS SO LOPSIDED!!! It's hiding his horns! ; )
Betty, good to hear from you again! Nobody's hatin' on Marcel as good as you.
Who is Amy????
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:29 AM
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Well, I guess you are a bit more forgiving than I am. For me, if you are over 18, you are old enough to face the consequences of your actions. In any other setting those guys would have gotten arrested. And I have to say, if I were a restaurant owner, I would never want to hire such moronic, immature, and down right mean spirited people to work for me, regardless of thier talent level. Hell I don't even want to eat the food that people like that make.
Believe me, I understand. Practical effects are different (job status, legal effects, etc), but one's overall humanity, I give more leeway.
I really don't think these bozos have any clue what ethics and morality really mean, and I think most of them would respond appropriately upon that realization...or series of realizations. Unfortunately, such realization happens after suffering some loss...and then tolerance, understanding, humility can begin to grow.
And in that sense, some legal recourse could be in order. If only to begin their education. It's really their loss in the end to extend their immaturity another day. Society's loss too.
ashleigh2
January 18, 2007 - 05:33 AM
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Sam and Elan should have been sent home too. Sam probally instigated the whole thing. He just sat there laughing, Elan on the camera and Elia just being stupid or just drunk.
I agree. They all should have got sent home. It's on again and I can't even watch it. It's sickening.
lol
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:40 AM
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Every great chef has a weak link in the kitchen, even Joel Robuchon.
If that were true...he'd of been long gone...I am SURE Chef Joel doesn't need to keep any weak links around for too long and Marcel is back there now.Chefs are dying to work for him.
He's world renowned.
I don't think Marcel's food has been all too awesome either....yet there have been some winners.Look how he worked at the Holiday event.
Maybe he cooks better under structure.
Elia messed up a lot too and she seems to be a rather slow cook.Yet they say she is fabulous. Sam was the star cooking wise......No doubt.
Ilan..he's pretty good too.
He's 23/24???
Makes him really 17. Guys mature a lot slower ..For real!
A true TC has time..Time to test recipes and play with the flavorings and Sam had that at his restaurant...Marcel has only been cooking another chefs menu.
Big test will be on the big island.
I just wish Sam was someone I could respect...but he's barely beyond teen mind-set. It wouldn't surprise me if he spent his 100K smoking reefer on a beach for a couple years till it ran out. Whereas I think Marcel would try to open up a joint asap. Could be wrong, but that's always the case.
MicrowaveHo
January 18, 2007 - 05:42 AM
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To all the "Boys will be Boys" apologist, I feel sorry for you!! It's fine if some Neanderthal wants to accept an assault like that, but most don't care to be awakened in the middle of the night and wrestled to the floor and restrained like that!! So very sad!! Almost reminds me of that video attack back east I heard about recently; some love triangle retaliation with some sadistic girls kicking the H e l l out of one of their peers!!
I find it interesting how so many people can watch the same show and get 2 totally different views of it.
I find it equally interesting on how if I cannot see the same thing and now I am a Neandrathal being "felt sorry" for. No one was hurt and Cliff was disqualified. I know I made it perfectly clear that Cliff's actions were not right. His intentions were not to hurt him. I just don't see why a federal case should be made of it.
Someone posted assault can be as simple as spitting at someone, well in the same wouldn't calling someone a neandrathal be considered defamation of character?
You don't see what the big deal is? Let me break it down a bit for you.
Marcel is very aware that he's not part of the boy's club that has emerged. He's been openly dissed not only in front of the judges, but guests and has to continue to live in a hostile environment. Put yourself in his shoes (as hard as that may be to do) and imagine being brutally awakened by a hulking figure about twice your size and all you've been bombarded with is the fact that those around you want you gone. Exactly how would you react? The guys left are a bunch of F***S!
WORD!!! Holy shite, I thought Cliff was going to unzip his pants & go to town on poor Marcel. Marcel conducted himself with true grace!!!
You mean the grace he showed when he punched the cameraman as he ran out of the room? The camerman should sue for assult and battery.
Do you know that for a fact? I mean, for all we know he punched a fixed camera that had been previously set up in the bathroom. I really sincerely doubt he punched a cameraman otherwise he would've definitely had to face the same consequences as Cliff did.
To answer your question, yes. He handled himself with dignity & grace. He quietly went into the bathroom & slept. He didn't run off to tattle. And it was he who apologized to Cliff for "the way things turned out for him" & proceeded to give him a hug LONG before Cliff approached him to apologize.
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:45 AM
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So bizarre.
In Cliff's video performance last night with Andy Cohen (where'd they get that guy?) and Gail, he goes on and on about how Marcel isn't the bad guy he is portrayed to be and it was all just little individual spats brought on by the intensity and that he considers Marcel to be his little brother and that Marcel is a phenomenal chef with phenomenal knowledge and no one ganged up on him....HUH???
Then Gail goes on and on about how great a chef Marcel is and how wonderful and innovative his dishes are etc etc...
Either Cliff's lying, which doesn't say much for him, or the "everyone hates Marcel" camp is being misguided by the edits.
So bizarre.
Did you see the "who do you think the 3 last judges would be"? Dayam! That Betty really wanted to win that 100K BAD! NO wonder she metamorphosed into a rabid hyena. Lawdy, lawdy!
Just bizarre.
GM all!
Oh man..my video thing kept breaking up..I missed a lot..What did Betty say??
It's really her facial expressions as she's talking...one of the few who picked her/himself and when she did, you could see visions of endless carbo-holidays dancing in her beady little eyes. What are with those pigtails?? She's 45 fer cryin out loud...Oh, good Lord, maybe she isn't lucifer's spawn and really isn't a narcisstic harridan....me aculpa, mea culpa, mea...I need more ritalin!
annnne
January 18, 2007 - 05:48 AM
OK, this Andy guy is so annoying. He has to go. He seems like a gross gossip - the worst in human beings. Not smart, engaging or likable. Why is he in our faces? Yuck. Makes me feel bad about watching the show.
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:49 AM
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Sam and Elan should have been sent home too. Sam probally instigated the whole thing. He just sat there laughing, Elan on the camera and Elia just being stupid or just drunk.
I agree. They all should have got sent home. It's on again and I can't even watch it. It's sickening.
And let's not forget Elia, little rich girl, who was there laughing all along, after she betrayed Marcel...having professed her freindship only to mock him and humiliate him. I could just speeet!
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:50 AM
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You mean the grace he showed when he punched the cameraman as he ran out of the room? The camerman should sue for assult and battery.
Do you know that for a fact? I mean, for all we know he punched a fixed camera that had been previously set up in the bathroom. I really sincerely doubt he punched a cameraman otherwise he would've definitely had to face the same consequences as Cliff did.
To answer your question, yes. He handled himself with dignity & grace. He quietly went into the bathroom & slept. He didn't run off to tattle. And it was he who apologized to Cliff for "the way things turned out for him" & proceeded to give him a hug LONG before Cliff approached him to apologize.
No. He made that up.
aguynamedWayne
January 18, 2007 - 05:50 AM
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Well, I guess you are a bit more forgiving than I am. For me, if you are over 18, you are old enough to face the consequences of your actions. In any other setting those guys would have gotten arrested. And I have to say, if I were a restaurant owner, I would never want to hire such moronic, immature, and down right mean spirited people to work for me, regardless of thier talent level. Hell I don't even want to eat the food that people like that make.
Believe me, I understand. Practical effects are different (job status, legal effects, etc), but one's overall humanity, I give more leeway.
I really don't think these bozos have any clue what ethics and morality really mean, and I think most of them would respond appropriately upon that realization...or series of realizations. Unfortunately, such realization happens after suffering some loss...and then tolerance, understanding, humility can begin to grow.
And in that sense, some legal recourse could be in order. If only to begin their education. It's really their loss in the end to extend their immaturity another day. Society's loss too.
Well said!!
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:55 AM
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OK, this Andy guy is so annoying. He has to go. He seems like a gross gossip - the worst in human beings. Not smart, engaging or likable. Why is he in our faces? Yuck. Makes me feel bad about watching the show.
Oh so true, sister! It's like you feel the need to have a spray bottle of Fantastic by your side to spray yourself while watching him. Yukapoopoo.
Don't you just want to take a magic marker and fill in that uni-brow???
MicrowaveHo
January 18, 2007 - 05:57 AM
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WORD!!! Holy shite, I thought Cliff was going to unzip his pants & go to town on poor Marcel. Marcel conducted himself with true grace!!!
NOW THAT'S ONE OF THE FUNNIEST THINGS I'VE READ TONIGHT
TAKE CARE OVER THERE
ALOHA
HAVE FUN
Ahaha...Cliff did appear to be aroused.
LOL....love your screen name MicrowaveHo!!
Haha Thanks.
BTW, why is everyone saying the Elia had something to do with this prank? I must have missed something. Because from my perspective she was off in the other room when Ilan was yelling for her to come out. You can hear her off in the distance replying to Ilan with, "No, I can't right now."
I dunno... I'll have to watch it again to see who was in the room when they had concocted this juvenile prank.
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 05:57 AM
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You mean the grace he showed when he punched the cameraman as he ran out of the room? The camerman should sue for assult and battery.
Do you know that for a fact? I mean, for all we know he punched a fixed camera that had been previously set up in the bathroom. I really sincerely doubt he punched a cameraman otherwise he would've definitely had to face the same consequences as Cliff did.
To answer your question, yes. He handled himself with dignity & grace. He quietly went into the bathroom & slept. He didn't run off to tattle. And it was he who apologized to Cliff for "the way things turned out for him" & proceeded to give him a hug LONG before Cliff approached him to apologize.
No. He made that up.
that is, Bttm_Chef, not Marcel.
Holster
January 18, 2007 - 06:00 AM
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WORD!!! Holy shite, I thought Cliff was going to unzip his pants & go to town on poor Marcel. Marcel conducted himself with true grace!!!
NOW THAT'S ONE OF THE FUNNIEST THINGS I'VE READ TONIGHT
TAKE CARE OVER THERE
ALOHA
HAVE FUN
Ahaha...Cliff did appear to be aroused.
LOL....love your screen name MicrowaveHo!!
Haha Thanks.
BTW, why is everyone saying the Elia had something to do with this prank? I must have missed something. Because from my perspective she was off in the other room when Ilan was yelling for her to come out. You can hear her off in the distance replying to Ilan with, "No, I can't right now."
I dunno... I'll have to watch it again to see who was in the room when they had concocted this juvenile prank.
She was also mocking Marcel earlier in the bathroom when she said how funny it will be when they are all at the judges table with no hair and Marcel's do is sticking out...and she make a face with buckteeth to mimic Marcel.
Rather unsavory.
It's not easy being a little rich girl.
Bottom_Chef
January 18, 2007 - 06:04 AM
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WORD!!! Holy shite, I thought Cliff was going to unzip his pants & go to town on poor Marcel. Marcel conducted himself with true grace!!!
NOW THAT'S ONE OF THE FUNNIEST THINGS I'VE READ TONIGHT
TAKE CARE OVER THERE
ALOHA
HAVE FUN
Ahaha...Cliff did appear to be aroused.
LOL....love your screen name MicrowaveHo!!
Haha Thanks.
BTW, why is everyone saying the Elia had something to do with this prank? I must have missed something. Because from my perspective she was off in the other room when Ilan was yelling for her to come out. You can hear her off in the distance replying to Ilan with, "No, I can't right now."
I dunno... I'll have to watch it again to see who was in the room when they had concocted this juvenile prank.
She was also mocking Marcel earlier in the bathroom when she said how funny it will be when they are all at the judges table with no hair and Marcel's do is sticking out...and she make a face with buckteeth to mimic Marcel.
Rather unsavory.
It's not easy being a little rich girl.
I missed that part. I have to look for it the next time I see this opisode.
Why do you refer to Elia as a spoiled rich girl? Something in her bio or something from a blog?
Bottom_Chef
January 18, 2007 - 06:06 AM
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You mean the grace he showed when he punched the cameraman as he ran out of the room? The camerman should sue for assult and battery.
Do you know that for a fact? I mean, for all we know he punched a fixed camera that had been previously set up in the bathroom. I really sincerely doubt he punched a cameraman otherwise he would've definitely had to face the same consequences as Cliff did.
To answer your question, yes. He handled himself with dignity & grace. He quietly went into the bathroom & slept. He didn't run off to tattle. And it was he who apologized to Cliff for "the way things turned out for him" & proceeded to give him a hug LONG before Cliff approached him to apologize.
No. He made that up.
that is, Bttm_Chef, not Marcel.
So you're saying Marcel didn't punch a camera/cameraman on his way out of the room?
It looked like this was filmed outside the doors leading into the living room, not in the bathroom.
But that's what the replays are for - we can verify what we saw.
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 06:07 AM
WELL IT WENT HOW I THOUGHT IT WOULD
NO SURPRISES
TAKE CARE OVER THERE
ALOHA
HAVE FUN
Hey JMe, jumping in here because there is no way in HELL I am going to read over 300 posts!! SO, here goes my opinion.
First, for some reason, was feeling very let-down after this episode. Partly because I felt that Ilan should have been reprimanded in some way for his antics behind the camera..."come on Sam, get the clippers, Cliff has him down..." etc. He is such a scary little thing! To have that much hate for a person, WOW!!! Definately need the psycho music playing right about now. AND, Sam should have been called out on this too. He just sat there laughing, and even though he SAID he was uncomfortable with what was going on, he still did NOTHING. You can't tell me that they ALL didn't realize what was happening was wrong. Elia, not sure where she was, but heard her in the back ground saying something like "I can't do that" (not a direct quote) ALL PARTIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED FOR THIS!!!
Now, the food. What ever gave Ilan the idea that 'CHICKEN LIVER BON BONS' was a good idea!! Holy crap, that was just GROSS! The other QF dishes were ok, nothing special in my eyes, but way better than Ilan's disaster!
I know Cliff was probably going home anyway, but because of his assinine behavior, he did not leave with dignity. I still think he should have left instead of Mike, even though Tom said i was because he contributed the least to the EC.
Someone said that Cliff knocked Marcel's tray of salmon on the floor. Did he? Not sure, but he did say he saw it falling and it didn't look like he did anything to stop it. However, Marcel thought quickly and saved his dish by reducing the portion size. Nice going Marcel!
Elia says she took all of the offered cooking courses at some fancy schmancy school, yet she didn't know that cream needed to be COLD to whip?!!!!!! Good heavens girl, common sense should have told you that. She does not have what it takes to be TC, as someone pointed out..."I quit", "I give up" not TC comments.
As for the TRUE Top Chef???? Sam MAY be a better chef than Marcel, but in the face of all the ridicule and harassment that Marcel took, he showed a maturity that the others only dream of posessing. Sam showed his colors by sitting by and not stopping the Cliff/Marcel?Ilan incident, knowing full well that it was out of control. SO, I do hope Marcel wins. Because, TC means to be able to keep control of yourself in trying times, and NONE of the others have proven that they are capable of that.
Long, yes, but will now step off my soap box, and wait for the disagreements/agreements to come pouring in.
Bottom_Chef
January 18, 2007 - 06:10 AM
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Someone said that Cliff knocked Marcel's tray of salmon on the floor. Did he?
I might have started that. I asked if Cliff knocked it to the floor and someone else said yes. It was hard to tell based on how it was shown on TV.
Bottom_Chef
January 18, 2007 - 06:13 AM
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Sam showed his colors by sitting by and not stopping the Cliff/Marcel?Ilan incident, knowing full well that it was out of control.
Sam told Cliff to let Marcel go but he didn't do anything physical to get Cliff off.
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 06:15 AM
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Oh, knock it off. What if ANY of the chefs held ELIA down AGAINST HER WILL? By people who made it CLEAR they didn't like her? Oh, my God, the outcry would echo from one end of the land to the other. The person responsible would probably be arrested!!! So why is it ok to terrorize ANYONE? Regardless of race or sex? Oh, but because Cliff's black, that's supposed to buy him what, latitude to physically assault someone? Why? Until the rules apply to EVERYONE racism will NEVER DIE. Who's REALLY practicing racisim here? The fact that he just wasn't as good, that he bullied almost everyone around him, that his attitude sucked, buys him what? A gimme because he's black? No. No. No. You need to rethink. His color isn't the issue here. The fact that he took his bullying to an unacceptable level is. Marcel isn't Cliff's buddy that he can "goof around with". Cliff's actions were abusive and scary and needed to be dealt with. I didn't see a "big black man", I saw a mean, aggressive, macho jerk venting something only he knows about.
Picture this....you are sound asleep. Someone grabs your legs, flips you over on your stomach, and jumps on top!!! HELLO PEOPLE!!! I don't care what color the person is..the first thing you think is "OMG, is this guy RAPING ME!!" Especially if that person is twice as big and you have no idea who it is because they just WOKE YOU UP!!! I can only imagine the fear that young man felt at that time. And you are correct, if it had been Elia, the whole story line would have been different.
Kiwiqueen
January 18, 2007 - 06:19 AM
ANYONE?????? Just wondering what the deal is with JUSTMEAOD, and the caps. I saw there was a reason, but don't know what? Just curious.
Anyone gonna bite???
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 06:19 AM
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Oh no they DIDN'T!!!!!!!!!!!
"Who hates Marcel the most?" LOL
Was what Cliff did really so bad? That seemed like drunken horseplay.
If he didnt come in and say he wanted to talk to Cliff...
I might have thought it was gonna be Marcel who gets the boot.,..for breaking the camera...
The camera??? You're not serious, right??
probaly not broken..but it looked like he smashed into it,...or punched or shoved it...
I THINK IT WAS THE CAMERA MAN WHO
SQUEELED
JMO
TAKE CARE OVER THERE
ALOHA
HAVE FUN
n one of the judges blogs, (don't remember which, but thought it was Tom) they said that one of the camera/producers were interviewing Marcel, and he made some comment and they asked him to tell them what happened. He did, and the rest is history.....
Bottom_Chef
January 18, 2007 - 06:21 AM
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Oh, knock it off. What if ANY of the chefs held ELIA down AGAINST HER WILL? By people who made it CLEAR they didn't like her? Oh, my God, the outcry would echo from one end of the land to the other. The person responsible would probably be arrested!!! So why is it ok to terrorize ANYONE? Regardless of race or sex? Oh, but because Cliff's black, that's supposed to buy him what, latitude to physically assault someone? Why? Until the rules apply to EVERYONE racism will NEVER DIE. Who's REALLY practicing racisim here? The fact that he just wasn't as good, that he bullied almost everyone around him, that his attitude sucked, buys him what? A gimme because he's black? No. No. No. You need to rethink. His color isn't the issue here. The fact that he took his bullying to an unacceptable level is. Marcel isn't Cliff's buddy that he can "goof around with". Cliff's actions were abusive and scary and needed to be dealt with. I didn't see a "big black man", I saw a mean, aggressive, macho jerk venting something only he knows about.
Picture this....you are sound asleep. Someone grabs your legs, flips you over on your stomach, and jumps on top!!! HELLO PEOPLE!!! I don't care what color the person is..the first thing you think is "OMG, is this guy RAPING ME!!" Especially if that person is twice as big and you have no idea who it is because they just WOKE YOU UP!!! I can only imagine the fear that young man felt at that time. And you are correct, if it had been Elia, the whole story line would have been different.
If it had been Elia held down, the place would have been filled with LA cops and the producers would have been jumping around with glee, all cameras filming.
bular
January 18, 2007 - 06:21 AM
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I can't really answer that question unless the cooks returned the camera broken and producers watched the tape.
I look forward to the answer. Breath not bated though.
In the producers BLOG posted today, she makes it quite clear that Marcel did not go to the producers. Someone from the show arrived at the loft the next morning to find Elia and Ilan without hair and were absolutely furious with them. So they put the show on hold for one more day rather than wrapping that night (hence why Tom arrives on day 2 to everyone just waking up - of course it could have been afternoon and they were napping since they had nothing else to do). When another producer was doing regular interviews with Marcel at the end it somehow came up. They then pressed Marcel for details. It was only after that they watched the tape. Otherwise, they probably would not have found out for some time when they went to edit the tape. If you haven't read her blog, its very interesting to see the timeline of all this and what truly happened.
Cudos to Marcel. I would not have been as forgiving as he was. Something tells me we only saw part of the tap as is evident when they cut from Marcel on the floor to him standing trying to break Cliff's hold. I hope that his torment was no longer than we saw. If it was, than that makes me even more upset because than it would really speak volumes as to the nature of the other competitors.
I also feel that Ilan at the very least should have been kicked off. He clearly was egging Cliff on. Shame on you Ilan. Alcohol or not, Cliff and Ilan and even Sam should be held accountable for their deplorable actions
And I am truly disappointed in my favorite chef Sam. I can't believe he did not even try to stop it when it obviously went to far. He didn't have to physically get involved (although it wouldn't have hurt as Marcel obviously was no match for Cliff) But he could have at least had the guts to tell cliff to stop. I am sorely disappointed.
I was routing for Sam to win...but I don't know any more.
Bottom_Chef
January 18, 2007 - 06:23 AM
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ANYONE?????? Just wondering what the deal is with JUSTMEAOD, and the caps. I saw there was a reason, but don't know what? Just curious.
Anyone gonna bite???
Just to stop the start of another fight:
I don't know the whle story but I know a little based on the pages and pages of fighting from last episode's discussion thread.
He/she has a disability and all caps helps. That's all I know.
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 06:24 AM
I have read through all the posts and now watched the episode 3 times. IMO Cliff went to far by breaking the rules but I am also reading through the posts and now we are comparing this to rape? Now unless Cliff dropped his pants,and went into Brokeback Mountain mode, I would not have immediately thought all that... and I am a woman. He was not out to intentionally hurt him, he wasn't planning to beat up him. What he did was not right but comparing to a gang rape? Sorry I don't see where they compare. I think Frank was more of violent threat than Cliff.
Now before everyone jumps on my back - I am not condoning what any of them- and IMO ALL of them were involved, did but I am questioning the severity of how some people looked at it.
Yes it was extremely stupid and went to far but I look at all of them like they are living in a frat house.. ..A very drunken frat house. I remember in college, rushing fraternities and sororities, the hazing and other stuff that happened,... vaseline in the hair? Nair in the shampoo? Putting underwear in the freezer on top of fish so your undies totally smell fishy? Shaving the eyebrows? Hand in cold water to make you pee in bed? All stupid pranks, all not at all very nice. But filing assault charges for any of that? Suing all parties involved? Wow.
From some of the posts I have read, some may think frying in the electric chair may not be enough of a fitting punishment for Cliff and Bravo.
Exactly. These "Marcel should file assault charges" posts are pretty over the top. Same with the lawsuits. Yes lets jam up the legal system with more petty lawsuits.
Thinking like this pretty much the the same misguided logic that argues that tag and dodgeball should be banned from schools and that childrens sports shouldn't have winners or losers.
If it was up to these people in 20 years we will all have to walk around incased in sanitized bubble wrap watching episodes of the hit game show Tie Tie or Draw, where everybody wins!!!
Still joke it was asault plain and simple....even as something as spitting in Marcels face could land you in jail as asault. The thing that bothered me was Cliff pulling Marcel out of bed while Marcel was sleeping throwing him on the floor and then putting him in a full nelson while Marcel just hung there. If that is your idea of a JOKE well we will agree to dissagree.
I'm with you on this one Actor..and, just a thought. Someone said it was in their contract that they could not sue Bravo/judges/fellow contestants. HOWEVER, Ron Goldman's father sued OJ and won, even though he was not convicted of the murders. SO, there is always a way around the law and if Marcel DIDN'T win, the person who did, (probably Sam) could still, possibly, be held financially responsible. NOW, I am not say he should/could/would sue, just putting this thought out there. And, as Mikie would say...bring it on
SoonersRock
January 18, 2007 - 06:24 AM
"My food is going to be so dope!"
~Marcel
WOW... "dope"?
I haven't heard that term since the Fresh Prince and DJ JazzyJeff split up.
Bottom_Chef
January 18, 2007 - 06:25 AM
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I can't really answer that question unless the cooks returned the camera broken and producers watched the tape.
I look forward to the answer. Breath not bated though.
In the producers BLOG posted today, she makes it quite clear that Marcel did not go to the producers. Someone from the show arrived at the loft the next morning to find Elia and Ilan without hair and were absolutely furious with them. So they put the show on hold for one more day rather than wrapping that night (hence why Tom arrives on day 2 to everyone just waking up - of course it could have been afternoon and they were napping since they had nothing else to do). When another producer was doing regular interviews with Marcel at the end it somehow came up. They then pressed Marcel for details. It was only after that they watched the tape. Otherwise, they probably would not have found out for some time when they went to edit the tape. If you haven't read her blog, its very interesting to see the timeline of all this and what truly happened.
Cudos to Marcel. I would not have been as forgiving as he was. Something tells me we only saw part of the tap as is evident when they cut from Marcel on the floor to him standing trying to break Cliff's hold. I hope that his torment was no longer than we saw. If it was, than that makes me even more upset because than it would really speak volumes as to the nature of the other competitors.
I also feel that Ilan at the very least should have been kicked off. He clearly was egging Cliff on. Shame on you Ilan. Alcohol or not, Cliff and Ilan and even Sam should be held accountable for their deplorable actions
And I am truly disappointed in my favorite chef Sam. I can't believe he did not even try to stop it when it obviously went to far. He didn't have to physically get involved (although it wouldn't have hurt as Marcel obviously was no match for Cliff) But he could have at least had the guts to tell cliff to stop. I am sorely disappointed.
I was routing for Sam to win...but I don't know any more.
Sam did tell CLiff to stop.
Kiwiqueen
January 18, 2007 - 06:27 AM
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ANYONE?????? Just wondering what the deal is with JUSTMEAOD, and the caps. I saw there was a reason, but don't know what? Just curious.
Anyone gonna bite???
Just me had caps handi....lol
He has a sight disability...I don't think he'd mind me saying so.
Ah, thank you Kris!!
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 06:27 AM
I have read through all the posts and now watched the episode 3 times. IMO Cliff went to far by breaking the rules but I am also reading through the posts and now we are comparing this to rape? Now unless Cliff dropped his pants,and went into Brokeback Mountain mode, I would not have immediately thought all that... and I am a woman. He was not out to intentionally hurt him, he wasn't planning to beat up him. What he did was not right but comparing to a gang rape? Sorry I don't see where they compare. I think Frank was more of violent threat than Cliff.
Now before everyone jumps on my back - I am not condoning what any of them- and IMO ALL of them were involved, did but I am questioning the severity of how some people looked at it.
Yes it was extremely stupid and went to far but I look at all of them like they are living in a frat house.. ..A very drunken frat house. I remember in college, rushing fraternities and sororities, the hazing and other stuff that happened,... vaseline in the hair? Nair in the shampoo? Putting underwear in the freezer on top of fish so your undies totally smell fishy? Shaving the eyebrows? Hand in cold water to make you pee in bed? All stupid pranks, all not at all very nice. But filing assault charges for any of that? Suing all parties involved? Wow.
From some of the posts I have read, some may think frying in the electric chair may not be enough of a fitting punishment for Cliff and Bravo.
Exactly. These "Marcel should file assault charges" posts are pretty over the top. Same with the lawsuits. Yes lets jam up the legal system with more petty lawsuits.
Thinking like this pretty much the the same misguided logic that argues that tag and dodgeball should be banned from schools and that childrens sports shouldn't have winners or losers.
If it was up to these people in 20 years we will all have to walk around incased in sanitized bubble wrap watching episodes of the hit game show Tie Tie or Draw, where everybody wins!!!
Still joke it was asault plain and simple....even as something as spitting in Marcels face could land you in jail as asault. The thing that bothered me was Cliff pulling Marcel out of bed while Marcel was sleeping throwing him on the floor and then putting him in a full nelson while Marcel just hung there. If that is your idea of a JOKE well we will agree to dissagree.
I'm not saying it wasn't assault nor was it right. I said it started out like a joke and it was obviously a dumb idea because there was little thought to the outcome in regards to Marcel.
That being said, Cliff was removed from the show and Marcel wasn't seriously hurt and seemed to accept Cliff's apology so I don't see the need for the police, lawyers, restraining orders, body guards, No fly zones or U.N. Peace keepers.
OK, WAJ, I understand no need for police, lawyers, etc. BUT as I keep pointing out...the UN is kind of busy right now and I truely hope nobody contacts them for mediation! LOL
Kiwiqueen
January 18, 2007 - 06:28 AM
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"My food is going to be so dope!"
~Marcel
WOW... "dope"?
I haven't heard that term since the Fresh Prince and DJ JazzyJeff split up.
Well thank your lucky stars, you can catch re-runs of WS on Nick at Nite.
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 06:32 AM
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I posted very early on I couldn't believe Sam asked Marcel to help him "plate" his dish after his rant a couple challenges before!! They show nothing but contempt for Marcel, then ask him to help them out!! That is so disturbed!! Reminds me of being tripped down a flight of stairs then being asked to lend money!! Makes little sense; I'm not that "Big!"
I agree. In the Seven Sins, they all went out to the patio and were not going to help Marcel because of Biddy being a rag! SAM INCLUDED, even though he said he is "not that guy" when he decided to help Marcel serve this time. Yes Sam, you ARE that guy!!
SoonersRock
January 18, 2007 - 06:34 AM
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LET'S GO MARCEL!!!!
No way... I make a broiled salmon with a tamarind orange glaze that would blow his dish last night away. OK so he made some cute little hearts to put on top of it? BFD... he should have put some flavor in the dish instead.
GenieC
January 18, 2007 - 06:40 AM
Personally I really Like Marcel, I have from day one. But I liked Josie too and she was cut early. Of course we only see bits and pieces of personalities But I feel he is just a confident chef. There is nothing wrong with confidence, it shows leadership skills, and Im tickled he is going to hawaii. I truly feel bad for him in just about every episode, its like the POOR kid cant catch a break. I sure hope he sticks to this and shows them at the finale what he is made of. and I wanted to give a great big shout out to ELIA. YOU GO GIRL.
MAR12
January 18, 2007 - 06:41 AM
"The producers arrived the next morning and were furious when they saw what they had done with their hair'. Maybe this has already been commented on--I just don't have time to look at every page--but--Elia was wearing a wig with (I think) a red scarf as she was being interviewed. Then we see her take it off and reveal her bald head. I am almost certain that she was interviewed with that wig on in LAST WEEKS episode. Ditto to Ilan who is sporting the Unabomber look both this week and last. Seems to me we also saw Ilan with that same look in an earlier episode. I remember thinking last week when I read so many comments on the board about it that it wasn't the first time we had seen him look like that! Now I'm looking at how we are manipulated by this show even more closely than I was. No wonder the producers are angry---if they were trying to set up friction between the contestants early on (before any existed) it would be very easy to do so by taking later interviews (when everyone is tired and overstressed) and airing them waaayy before any real problems had started. I am embarrassed to say that I never thought that they may air the interviews for one episode and challenge during a different episode and challenge. Geesh how naive!!!!
rxgrrl
January 18, 2007 - 06:47 AM
I didn't like Marcel at the beginning, I thought he seemed immature and full of himself but everyone picking on him over the weeks has made him an underdog in my eyes and I started rooting for him to do well.
I was so disappointed with Cliff. But rules are rules. I felt so bad for Marcel, he had to sleep in the bathroom and then he didn't gloat or anything when Cliff had to leave and he accepted Cliff's apology with dignity.
I hope he does well in the finale but I think the final two might be Sam and Elia.
Nan546
January 18, 2007 - 06:51 AM
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To all the "Boys will be Boys" apologist, I feel sorry for you!! It's fine if some Neanderthal wants to accept an assault like that, but most don't care to be awakened in the middle of the night and wrestled to the floor and restrained like that!! So very sad!! Almost reminds me of that video attack back east I heard about recently; some love triangle retaliation with some sadistic girls kicking the H e l l out of one of their peers!!
I find it interesting how so many people can watch the same show and get 2 totally different views of it.
I find it equally interesting on how if I cannot see the same thing and now I am a Neandrathal being "felt sorry" for. No one was hurt and Cliff was disqualified. I know I made it perfectly clear that Cliff's actions were not right. His intentions were not to hurt him. I just don't see why a federal case should be made of it.
Someone posted assault can be as simple as spitting at someone, well in the same wouldn't calling someone a neandrathal be considered defamation of character?
You don't see what the big deal is? Let me break it down a bit for you.
Marcel is very aware that he's not part of the boy's club that has emerged. He's been openly dissed not only in front of the judges, but guests and has to continue to live in a hostile environment. Put yourself in his shoes (as hard as that may be to do) and imagine being brutally awakened by a hulking figure about twice your size and all you've been bombarded with is the fact that those around you want you gone. Exactly how would you react? The guys left are a bunch of F***S!
WORD!!! Holy shite, I thought Cliff was going to unzip his pants & go to town on poor Marcel. Marcel conducted himself with true grace!!!
You mean the grace he showed when he punched the cameraman as he ran out of the room? The camerman should sue for assult and battery.
Do you know that for a fact? I mean, for all we know he punched a fixed camera that had been previously set up in the bathroom. I really sincerely doubt he punched a cameraman otherwise he would've definitely had to face the same consequences as Cliff did.
To answer your question, yes. He handled himself with dignity & grace. He quietly went into the bathroom & slept. He didn't run off to tattle. And it was he who apologized to Cliff for "the way things turned out for him" & proceeded to give him a hug LONG before Cliff approached him to apologize.
I think Marcel slammed the door on Elan w/camera not cameraman for show.
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 06:55 AM
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"My food is going to be so dope!"
~Marcel
WOW... "dope"?
I haven't heard that term since the Fresh Prince and DJ JazzyJeff split up.
When Marcel says his food will be "dope", does that mean he will be using a recipe from Alice's Restaurant???? Maybe some special brownies.... lol
ashleigh2
January 18, 2007 - 06:55 AM
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I have read through all the posts and now watched the episode 3 times. IMO Cliff went to far by breaking the rules but I am also reading through the posts and now we are comparing this to rape? Now unless Cliff dropped his pants,and went into Brokeback Mountain mode, I would not have immediately thought all that... and I am a woman. He was not out to intentionally hurt him, he wasn't planning to beat up him. What he did was not right but comparing to a gang rape? Sorry I don't see where they compare. I think Frank was more of violent threat than Cliff.
Now before everyone jumps on my back - I am not condoning what any of them- and IMO ALL of them were involved, did but I am questioning the severity of how some people looked at it.
Yes it was extremely stupid and went to far but I look at all of them like they are living in a frat house.. ..A very drunken frat house. I remember in college, rushing fraternities and sororities, the hazing and other stuff that happened,... vaseline in the hair? Nair in the shampoo? Putting underwear in the freezer on top of fish so your undies totally smell fishy? Shaving the eyebrows? Hand in cold water to make you pee in bed? All stupid pranks, all not at all very nice. But filing assault charges for any of that? Suing all parties involved? Wow.
From some of the posts I have read, some may think frying in the electric chair may not be enough of a fitting punishment for Cliff and Bravo.
Exactly. These "Marcel should file assault charges" posts are pretty over the top. Same with the lawsuits. Yes lets jam up the legal system with more petty lawsuits.
Thinking like this pretty much the the same misguided logic that argues that tag and dodgeball should be banned from schools and that childrens sports shouldn't have winners or losers.
If it was up to these people in 20 years we will all have to walk around incased in sanitized bubble wrap watching episodes of the hit game show Tie Tie or Draw, where everybody wins!!!
Yes, well some people like to project their militant gender politics onto everything.
Lets face it, any act of masculinity or macho bahavior make them wet their panties with urine and cry 'HOW HORRIBLE.'
Western culture has become feminized, for better or for worse.
AH...I digress. ;-)
WhataJoke
January 18, 2007 - 06:57 AM
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To all the "Boys will be Boys" apologist, I feel sorry for you!! It's fine if some Neanderthal wants to accept an assault like that, but most don't care to be awakened in the middle of the night and wrestled to the floor and restrained like that!! So very sad!! Almost reminds me of that video attack back east I heard about recently; some love triangle retaliation with some sadistic girls kicking the H e l l out of one of their peers!!
I find it interesting how so many people can watch the same show and get 2 totally different views of it.
I find it equally interesting on how if I cannot see the same thing and now I am a Neandrathal being "felt sorry" for. No one was hurt and Cliff was disqualified. I know I made it perfectly clear that Cliff's actions were not right. His intentions were not to hurt him. I just don't see why a federal case should be made of it.
Someone posted assault can be as simple as spitting at someone, well in the same wouldn't calling someone a neandrathal be considered defamation of character?
Thank you very much. Its really shocking how some people can get so obsessive about people on a reality show that two sets of rules apply in reguards to not only behavior but posters commenting on the action.
bular
January 18, 2007 - 06:59 AM
[quote
Sam did tell CLiff to stop.
Lounding on the sofa laughing and quietly saying once to let him go...given the gravity of it...not enough in my book. If Sam was truly a leader (which is a skill required in a Top Chef IMHO) he would have stood up and said with far more force for Cliff to let him go.
It is not the size of the man but the size of his true character that counts. And when it came down to it, I was disappointed that Sam lacked the character to stand up for what was right, despite his own personal feelings towards Marcel.
aguynamedWayne
January 18, 2007 - 06:59 AM
If I was Marcel, I would have pulled a "Richard Hatch" faster than the speed of light. (it's purported that on the 1st season of Survivor, Richard Hatch caught the producers of the show sneaking food to the contestants they wanted to win. Instead of turning them in for fraud, Hatch struck a deal with them, and Hatch was declared the winner). Marcel, should have told the show to declare him the winner of the competion then and there, and if they didn't, he should have immediately picked up the phone and dialed 911, filed an assault charge against Cliff, and conspiracy and complicity to commit assault charges, against the other three idiots. Plus file a lawsuit against the producers of the show and the BRAVO network for manufacturing and instigating as well as contributing to an unsafe work and living environment.
Believe me, when cops start showing up and arresting people, Everyone's outlook changes.
sizzler
January 18, 2007 - 07:01 AM
Hey JMe, jumping in here because there is no way in HELL I am going to read over 300 posts!! SO, here goes my opinion.
First, for some reason, was feeling very let-down after this episode. Partly because I felt that Ilan should have been reprimanded in some way for his antics behind the camera..."come on Sam, get the clippers, Cliff has him down..." etc. He is such a scary little thing! To have that much hate for a person, WOW!!! Definately need the psycho music playing right about now. AND, Sam should have been called out on this too. He just sat there laughing, and even though he SAID he was uncomfortable with what was going on, he still did NOTHING. You can't tell me that they ALL didn't realize what was happening was wrong. Elia, not sure where she was, but heard her in the back ground saying something like "I can't do that" (not a direct quote) ALL PARTIES SHOULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED FOR THIS!!!
Now, the food. What ever gave Ilan the idea that 'CHICKEN LIVER BON BONS' was a good idea!! Holy crap, that was just GROSS! The other QF dishes were ok, nothing special in my eyes, but way better than Ilan's disaster!
I know Cliff was probably going home anyway, but because of his assinine behavior, he did not leave with dignity. I still think he should have left instead of Mike, even though Tom said i was because he contributed the least to the EC.
Someone said that Cliff knocked Marcel's tray of salmon on the floor. Did he? Not sure, but he did say he saw it falling and it didn't look like he did anything to stop it. However, Marcel thought quickly and saved his dish by reducing the portion size. Nice going Marcel!
Elia says she took all of the offered cooking courses at some fancy schmancy school, yet she didn't know that cream needed to be COLD to whip?!!!!!! Good heavens girl, common sense should have told you that. She does not have what it takes to be TC, as someone pointed out..."I quit", "I give up" not TC comments.
As for the TRUE Top Chef???? Sam MAY be a better chef than Marcel, but in the face of all the ridicule and harassment that Marcel took, he showed a maturity that the others only dream of posessing. Sam showed his colors by sitting by and not stopping the Cliff/Marcel?Ilan incident, knowing full well that it was out of control. SO, I do hope Marcel wins. Because, TC means to be able to keep control of yourself in trying times, and NONE of the others have proven that they are capable of that.
Long, yes, but will now step off my soap box, and wait for the disagreements/agreements to come pouring in.
How dare y....
Wha???
Are you kidding me???
Just thought I'd start the rumble...lol
I SO agree Sizzler..Marcel haters come on...He is the
victim and he is a STAR now whether they like it or not..I hope Samillan have learned something from this..Ya think that's why Sam is out of a job now??
I know the peeps at his restaurant see it when we see it but Mikes employer said he didn't want the publicity so word may have gotten out.
Ow I know this is gonna make some cringe but.
LET'S GO MARCEL!!!!
Thank you Kristl. Got to be honest here...the thought of watching that show again makes me feel sick! Just like I can't stand to watch any episodes with Biddy screaming like a shrew!! So sad to see such a good concept for a show go into the toilet like this. Can only hope that next season resembles the first one and NOT this one!
jace007
January 18, 2007 - 07:03 AM
Got to agree with you on this one. I must say, I was super glad to see the bully go. His error in judgement had no place in this event and I was elated when the producers said he got to go. I was pretty surprised to see him humble himself and apologised to Marcel. This world has enough angry peeps and the poetic justic was fantastic as Cliff seemed to have a chance of making top chef. Great lesson for the others to learn that the "I'm better than you" attitudes get what they deserve. buh bye now and cheers to the folks at Bravotv on their decision to axe Mr Meany.
aguynamedWayne
January 18, 2007 - 07:05 AM
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To all the "Boys will be Boys" apologist, I feel sorry for you!! It's fine if some Neanderthal wants to accept an assault like that, but most don't care to be awakened in the middle of the night and wrestled to the floor and restrained like that!! So very sad!! Almost reminds me of that video attack back east I heard about recently; some love triangle retaliation with some sadistic girls kicking the H e l l out of one of their peers!!
I find it interesting how so many people can watch the same show and get 2 totally different views of it.
I find it equally interesting on how if I cannot see the same thing and now I am a Neandrathal being "felt sorry" for. No one was hurt and Cliff was disqualified. I know I made it perfectly clear that Cliff's actions were not right. His intentions were not to hurt him. I just don't see why a federal case should be made of it.
Someone posted assault can be as simple as spitting at someone, well in the same wouldn't calling someone a neandrathal be considered defamation of character?
Thank you very much. Its really shocking how some people can get so obsessive about people on a reality show that two sets of rules apply in reguards to not only behavior but posters commenting on the action.
Well if you are not the one being assaulted in your sleep, it's easy to see it as petty, or just juvenile fun. But if you are unlucky enough to be the person who was assaulted you may have a very different viewpoint.
WhataJoke
January 18, 2007 - 07:07 AM
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And I quote from Tom:
Marcel’s chicken wasn’t great, but he had actually made a stab at chicken confit -- a preparation often used with duck leg, in which the meat is cured in spices and slowly cooked in its own fat. If the chicken confit had worked, it would have been unusual and delicious. Most likely Marcel cooked the wings at a temperature high enough to make them safe, but the faulty execution gave the dish a soft, undercooked texture and appearance. And though the judge’s confit discussion did not make it into the episode, we discussed it and agreed that, like Sam’s unsuccessful watermelon dish, Marcel’s chicken showed a stab at doing something interesting. Also, Marcel was responsible for the vegetable tempura, which all agreed was delicious.
"Most likely Marcel cooked the wings at a temperature high enough to make them safe..." Most Likely? Hmmm sounds like damage control to me. Especially since it was described as Raw.
Who said they were raw?
At least one of the judges said "raw".
And let me reiterate my question because the people who were defending the chicken with Tom's Blog have yet to answer it.
If someone gave you a piece of chicken and told you it was very tasty and was "most likey" (Tom's words not mine) cooked safely would you eat it?
jace007
January 18, 2007 - 07:14 AM
quote: If I was Marcel, I would have pulled a "Richard Hatch" faster than the speed of light. (it's purported that on the 1st season of Survivor, Richard Hatch caught the producers of the show sneaking food to the contestants they wanted to win. Instead of turning them in for fraud, Hatch struck a deal with them, and Hatch was declared the winner). Marcel, should have told the show to declare him the winner of the competion then and there, and if they didn't, he should have immediately picked up the phone and dialed 911, filed an assault charge against Cliff, and conspiracy and complicity to commit assault charges, against the other three idiots. Plus file a lawsuit against the producers of the show and the BRAVO network for manufacturing and instigating as well as contributing to an unsafe work and living environment.
Believe me, when cops start showing up and arresting people, Everyone's outlook changes.
OMG. You are awesome, I hadn't thought of that, but excellent point directed to the cry babies supporting Cliff and his macho attitude. A night in jail being bubba's girlfriend should really shut a lot of mouths, but it doesn't.
lem0n
January 18, 2007 - 07:21 AM
Gail was the one who used the words "raw" at the judges table but she did not mean it literally. I think you can assume that the judges did not seriously think that dish was a health hazard. Tom's a renowned chef, Gail is an experienced food critic, and that guest judge was not one to mince his words. I think it's nitpicking to pick at the words "most likely." The fact that Tom took the time to address this in his blog means he believes Marcel cooked the chicken to the right temperature.
I do not think it matters, but you asked, so yes I would eat the chicken if these judges thought it was safe. (not just somebody!)
geekzilla
January 18, 2007 - 07:30 AM
I have been a fan of this show from the beginning but tonight's episode made me physically ill. Last season was so much better because it was all about the cooking and who would be best suited to running a kitchen. This season has been all about the drama and the people they cast guarenteed that there would be lots of it. I can't imagine anyone from season one (except maybe Ken) coming close to this low. It's pretty bad when nearly everyone in the competition is making me miss Tiffany. She was an ass who couldn't read a room, but she had the talent to back up her bitchitude.
I'm not sure if I'll bother to watch the finale or next season. Betty and Ilan sucked a lot of fun out of the first 2/3 of the season and now an assault with the witnesses either egging the perpetrator on or turning their backs? That stinks.
One thing I've decided to join a number of friends in doing is finding out where these people work, making it a point to boycott their places of employment and encouraging others to do the same. Maybe Bravo has no problem paying them to be jerks. There are those of us who eat out, travel and hire caterers and restaurants and would prefer our business going to people who aren't thugs or bullies.
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