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Maybe I live in and work in rough places but Ive seen many an ass-whoopin between co-workers.

I wont even mention how pilots get their wings in the AF. I have family in 3 of the 4 branches of our armed forces and they would have done far worse then we saw on tv. Is it right? Never said that but just the way the real world is.

brillke

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...Fifth: Marcel handled the situation with dignity and should be commended for that. That does not negate his being in each of the contestants ears, moaning and telling them how to do things in the kitchen or how wonderful his education was. His snide remarks probably precipatated ted this whole mess. As I said I do not under any circumstances condone the actions of the group at all.

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Which is it--did Marcel's actions precipitate it or not? To precipiate an action is to trigger or cause it. So either Marcel's actions precipiated the assault or they didn't.

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Sixth: I personally feel none of the contestants will find it easy to find a job after this, Marcel included. Marcel for his constant remarks (behavior) and the rest for their behavior regarding the incident on Top Chef.

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Marcel has a chef's job with one of the top chefs in the country. Sam is out of work. Ilan is working as a line cook. Obviously, Marcel isn't that difficult to work with because he has a plum position, one most chefs would very much love to have. The competition must be rigorous for the job, and Marcel has it.

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Seventh: Since this has probably destroyed all of their careers, I wonder if Bravo/Top Chef should have aired the scuffle. Not that they did not have every right to but maybe they should have considered the outcome to the chefs. Do not misunderstand me, they had every right to air the segment, my question is should they have aired it. It has destroyed the entire group, the remaining group no exceptions. I think we have heard that Michael did not get his job back, was that because of the show? He was not around for the “attempted shearing,” but he also did not like Marcel, which was apparent.

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You honestly think it's right to call it a "scuffle"? If someone attacked you when you were asleep and treated you so roughly that you had bruises, all in an attempt to deface you--you'd call that a "scuffle"?

I addition, it hasn't negatively impacted Marcel's career, since he has a plum job with one of the top chefs of our country. And I don't think it would negatively impact his career because comments in a kitchen in no way will ever justify a gang physical assault.

To not show the assault would have totally twisted what viewers believed to have happened on the show. It would be very convenient for Sam, Ilan, Cliff and Elia, to hide their actions. I believe they will all have to deal with the impact of their actions on TC in the future.

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What this all has done to their careers is sad. Not that it can be justified, their behavior was deplorable. It makes possible contestants in the future question whether they really want to be on the show. No one can predict how the other contestants will handle things, and guilt by association is a strong force. I think by airing the segment by Bravo/Top Chef they may have just sealed the fate of the show. Maybe they will come out of this untouched but I doubt it. Maybe it will show Bravo/Top Chef they need to provide better accommodations for the contestants. Who knows what will happen, but I think there is a lesson in there for everyone.

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Wait a minute--in all probability, the only negative impact will be on those responsible for the assault. I see the production staff as perhaps instigating it, but nothing--not living in a hot apartment, staying up all night, having to listen to someone who annoys you, being drunk--NOTHING justifies a physical assault on a sleeping colleague.

I think Tom C, Gail and maybe even Padma (although, based on the trashy clothes she wears, I don't think much could embarass her) will be embarassed by it, but they were twice removed from the situation...the production staff called the producers who called Tom C.

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Do I think Marcel should be the next top chef, no not at all. He possibly could be a top chef in the future but right now he is too immature on a whole to handle that kind of responsibility. None of the chefs, because of this last episode, are really top chef material. I am a Sam follower but he could have tried to stop the scuffle and he chose to sit back on the sidelines. Out of the entire group Sam is the only one that has shown any type of leadership when team challenges have occurred so for that I will have to say, he probably is the best candidate. This is really a sad cast of characters, and it is even sadder what happened to the group dynamic. Just my take on the situation and probably not worth the time I spent writing this.

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It's hard to believe that you would still even consider Sam after his role in the assault. That's being a "top chef" to you? And this isn't the first time that Sam has cheered someone on while they did his dirty work for him...it is his pattern. That's a "top chef" to you?

I don't think any of them at this point have TC qualifications. I don't think the bully-gang ever will because there is a vacuum in moral character there which won't get filled simply by the years.

If one has to be chosen TC, I can't see anyone else but Marcel. The others put themselves into a position that they glaringly don't deserve to win.

Indeed, Tom c was read to send the gang home and declare Marcel the winner by default. I think, if the TC show wants to continue and wants to send a message to future cheftestants, this is what should have been done.

But the producers overruled Tom C. I wonder how much they will enjoy the backlash that has resulted?

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You are entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. That is just the nature of how things are. Yes I said it will cause problems for all getting a job, maybe not now but in the future. And yes I think even after the scuffle (maybe in your eyes a stronger word should be used) Sam is the only one who has shown leadership in the kitchen during team competitions. I did not say leadership anywhere else. That does not negate the fact that cooking is also the final determination. We can only wait to see what happens. If Marcel outcooks them all, that is great. Let him be Top Chef. I just believe there is more to being a Top Chef than being able to cook. Administration of assignments is important also. Maybe we need to agree to disagree on this and not make an issue of our different opinions. You have yours and I have mine.

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Again, blaming the victim is a despicable tactic.

Are you saying that in your average restaurant kitchen, which is male-dominated, that they would conspire to physically attack with the intentions to deface someone in the kitchen they didn't like because of the things he said?

You're really saying that? Really?

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No, someone would just pick a fight with him and then beat the hell out of him in the parking lot after work. I worked in bars and restaraunts for twenty years and I saw it happen several times.

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Maybe I live in and work in rough places but Ive seen many an ass-whoopin between co-workers.

I wont even mention how pilots get their wings in the AF. I have family in 3 of the 4 branches of our armed forces and they would have done far worse then we saw on tv. Is it right? Never said that but just the way the real world is.

brillke

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The comparsion is invalid because you are comparing apples and oranges. You are attempting to compare two completely different work enviornments and saying that what "would happen" in each is the same.

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Amazon your whole argument is stupid beacuae you fail to realise that in almost any work invionment if you don't like someone you can at least go home to get away from them at the end of the night. Apples and Oranges? Amazon is trying to compare Apples to Donuts.

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"Do you actually believe that any of those involved in the gang attack on Marcel should carry the title of top chef?

Is being part of a bully-gang your idea of the requirements for top chef?

I agree with Tom C--the rest of them should have been drop-kicked off the show like yesterday's compost, and Marcel should have won by default.

I think allowing the rest of them to continue degrades the Top Chef show and those involved in it. It's like giving an endorsement for bully-gang behavior in a top chef."

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What I saw was a HUMAN BEING make an incredibly stupid mistake while drunk off his ass. I saw that same human take his punishment like a man and apologize for his very stupid mistake. I saw Marcel accept that apology. If Marcel is willing to accept it and move on, who am I to argue with him?



I am truly honored to be surrounded by so many perfect human beings who have never royally [censored] up and had to take their lumps.

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You didn't answer the question and, indeed, try to throw a few red herrings around.

Come on. Either you believe the bully-gang's actions are part of what being a TC is required or not. You indicated in the post to which I replied, but which you did not post, that you didn't think Marcel should be named TC. Of those who are left, who should, then?

Here's your red herrings:

1) It wasn't ONE HUMAN BEING who did it...it was one who actually did the work, but three others (two of who were in the room at the same time) conspired and collaborated. Cliff didn't dream this up on his own and didn't do it without the encouragement and support of the others.

Related to this is your attempt to make it seem like they have all "paid their lumps." Bull****. Cliff was sent home. Sam, Ilan and Elia, all co-conspirators and collaborators in the assault, get to go to Hawaii.

2) Using the "the-alcohol-made-them-do-it" argument is also a red herring since the vast majority of people who get roaring drunk do not form a bully-gang and assault a sleeping colleague. It wasn't the alcohol--it was the moral character of those involved.

3) Raising the "nobody's perfect" excuse is also a red herring. Whether or not any poster is perfect is completely irrelevant to what the TC bully-gang did. None of us have held ourselves forth as being of TC material. None of us were on the show last night and involved in the bully-gang assault on Marcel.

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IMO, the only red herring here is you wanting to see how many times you can type bully-gang in this thread.


You dont want to discuss the show or anyone elses opinion. You want be the moral police and anyone who dare disagree with you is tossing out red herrings.

brillke

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"Do you actually believe that any of those involved in the gang attack on Marcel should carry the title of top chef?

Is being part of a bully-gang your idea of the requirements for top chef?

I agree with Tom C--the rest of them should have been drop-kicked off the show like yesterday's compost, and Marcel should have won by default.

I think allowing the rest of them to continue degrades the Top Chef show and those involved in it. It's like giving an endorsement for bully-gang behavior in a top chef."

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What I saw was a HUMAN BEING make an incredibly stupid mistake while drunk off his ass. I saw that same human take his punishment like a man and apologize for his very stupid mistake. I saw Marcel accept that apology. If Marcel is willing to accept it and move on, who am I to argue with him?



I am truly honored to be surrounded by so many perfect human beings who have never royally [censored] up and had to take their lumps.

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You didn't answer the question and, indeed, try to throw a few red herrings around.

Come on. Either you believe the bully-gang's actions are part of what being a TC is required or not. You indicated in the post to which I replied, but which you did not post, that you didn't think Marcel should be named TC. Of those who are left, who should, then?

Here's your red herrings:

1) It wasn't ONE HUMAN BEING who did it...it was one who actually did the work, but three others (two of who were in the room at the same time) conspired and collaborated. Cliff didn't dream this up on his own and didn't do it without the encouragement and support of the others.

Related to this is your attempt to make it seem like they have all "paid their lumps." Bull****. Cliff was sent home. Sam, Ilan and Elia, all co-conspirators and collaborators in the assault, get to go to Hawaii.

2) Using the "the-alcohol-made-them-do-it" argument is also a red herring since the vast majority of people who get roaring drunk do not form a bully-gang and assault a sleeping colleague. It wasn't the alcohol--it was the moral character of those involved.

3) Raising the "nobody's perfect" excuse is also a red herring. Whether or not any poster is perfect is completely irrelevant to what the TC bully-gang did. None of us have held ourselves forth as being of TC material. None of us were on the show last night and involved in the bully-gang assault on Marcel.

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IMO, the only red herring here is you wanting to see how many times you can type bully-gang in this thread.


You dont want to discuss the show or anyone elses opinion. You want be the moral police and anyone who dare disagree with you is tossing out red herrings.

brillke

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You still haven't addressed any of the issues I raised, nor answered the original question. But you have now twice accused me of something about which you have no knowledge--including what my intent is by posting here.

If I was to play that game, I could say that you really don't want to discuss anybody's opinion here but you post here only to promote Sam and take down Marcel, no matter how ridiculous it makes you look, and even if it means you have to "mischaracterize" your own danged interview with Marcel.

Face it. You attempted to spin the assault less than it was, and to limit the damage to the rest of the contestants involved by restricting the participants to Cliff only.

You then tried to spin those criticizing what happened as somehow wrong because nobody's perfect.

And you question MY intent in posting?

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Amazon the only thing anyone left here is questioning about you is if your more or less BatSh!t crazy than Margo Kidder.

I'm going for the over.

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LOL.. I have to put a Fin on that myself

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The way you quoted the post, it appeared that Meime was the author of the post. Actually, I went back and looked and it was WhatAJoke who was the author.

I no longer read its posts because they are usually simply bizarre attacks on the poster or the chef. His post, which you quoted, proves my case.

Care to put a fin on that?

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Did you all see Ilan with his two fingers out behind Marcel to Sam as he wanted the second course...Such a baby.

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SO glad someone alse saw that. More high school behavior.
So laughable and so pathetic.

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I saw that too. Why couldn't he just say, "I'd like to take the second course?" What a poopy-head.

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LOL..Yeah that and the whole cigar..I swear Sam is one shrewd hottie...He played that kid like a fiddle..I don't even think Sam likes Ilan ..He had a plan to win and that included an alliance like Survivor...I think it's becoming more apparent as time goes on..He got pretty mad at his boys in the restaurant challenge..over some bacon????....And Ilan is like So sorry Sam!!!.....Ilan was his willing flunkie.

This is all so Shakespearerean

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Liddy - I see where you are coming from. I only watched the episode onces so my opinions are based on my initial reactions. I recall clearly seeing Cliff and Sam in the video and hearing Ilan. I do not recall hearing Elia or seeing her in the shots. Therefore, I did not include her in my comments. However, if Elia did see what was going on and did not take any action, than she too is just as guilty in the deplorable actions against Marcel as Sam or Ilan would be in my book.

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According to Tom C, she was not in the room, but she knew what they were doing and could hear what was going on....and did nothing.

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What did you expect her to do? We all know Elia is tougher than Marcel but she's no match for Cliff.

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Did you all see Ilan with his two fingers out behind Marcel to Sam as he wanted the second course...Such a baby.

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SO glad someone alse saw that. More high school behavior.
So laughable and so pathetic.

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I saw that too. Why couldn't he just say, "I'd like to take the second course?" What a poopy-head.

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