Yea!!! You are back! I have missed you.

No, no agenda here. If you are going to be rude to me, I would respectfully request that you don't post directly to me.

Andre still works for SkySport & Spa. I think the producers didn't find Andre interesting or maybe he just didn't want to be on the show but he's still a trainer there. There are some very attractive and qualified trainers on the SkySport website and yet, the producers still cast people from the outside.



I'm not sure why you would care? I'm sure she has some trust issues. I think a lot of people do. You're so up in Jackie's ass and her business in addition to the over generalized business of gay men, I'm not sure who you are to question any of it? I think it's strange that someone overly concerened with a this woman's business is questioning her actions?

You think that all adults who contract AIDS deserve to die and now you question someone struggling with trust? Who are you? Are you God? I would love to see your life on camera but hours of you sitting in your mother's basement probably wouldn't provide a great deal of entertainment.

To everyone complaining that as a consumer, they have rights. Please tell me which Amendment that is. I'm unfamiliar because I thought that as a consumer, you have the CHOICE to buy or not to buy. That's very different from spreading hate, disdain and attempting to destroy someone's life. We live in a free market society. That means, you don't have to buy or watch.

Do some of you know why I call you harpies? I'm sure you know what harpies are but mostly, I think of the harpies in His Dark Materials trilogy by Philip Pullman. If you've read those books, you know exactly what I'm talking about and it would be hard for you to argue that you behave any differently than they do. (they fly around with their blood-stained lips and whisper the sinful thoughts and lies that the dead made while living. For all eternity, they don't allow the dead to rest or forget their mistakes. No one can escape it. Not even the most pious for the harpies are relentless. Get it? They are miserable creatures who live for casting eternal misery on others.)

MommaKelly, I'm sorry if you think I'm being overly mean but I've seen some awful things said on this board and it's always rationalized and justified in the name of "values" or something as equally as lame. Yes, it makes me angry but Kiasmama comments about AIDS sent me right over the edge. It was unacceptable. It makes me turn into the guy on Seinfeld, "WHY AREN'T YOU WEARING THE RIBBON" Puerto Ricans had that episode banned but you know what! That's as close to me as anyone I've ever seen on TV! I thought it was wrong to ban that episode and I think it's wrong to ban Work OUt.

In my opinion, there is a disconnect between Jackie and her Mom because her Mom, just like mine, believes that homosexuality is a sin and we are going to hell for being gay. Jackie wants her mother to change and her mother wants her to change. Hugh disconnect. If you go back and read my past post, you will see that there comes a point when you just have to let people be where they are and know what boundaries are necessary to maintain your own sense of stability.

Alex and I renewed ours vows this past March and my mother did not come and I knew she wouldn't but I still was devastated because I want her to accept me as she does my siblings.

How was I rude to you? I asked if you had an agenda and told you my agenda. How is that rude?

Read your post, and ask yourself if you would like to get that post that you sent to me from someone else? If you don't find it rude, you surely have no idea what rude means. It was rude.

Here is your post, with my comments in parenthesis , so that you will see where I found your post to be rude.
Chefpapa...Why do you keep trying to get others to move on from this board? ( This is rude, I am sorry. I am not trying to do anything. I was posting my opinion)
Do you have an agenda? (this is rude too. what kind of agenda would I have? Its a BRAVO message board!)
I am here because the board that was started to discuss the issue of Jackie was shut down and those who had opinions about the episode in question came here. If you want to discuss the newest episode (that you have not seen) (YOu dont think this was rude?)then go to that board. (rude)
But I have an agenda...I have an opinion about the personification of Jackie as it relates to her treatment of others, of her lying, of her portraying lesbians as having revolving doors on their pussies. That is my agenda. So I will not be moving on until she apologizes or the show is removed. If that makes me a bad lesbian,(rude, as I would never connect your being a lesbian to any of this)
I could care less. She has hurt the cause by her junior high behavior more than Pat Robertson(sp?).
The entire post was rude. It is very aggressive and hostile for no reason.

did you after a few months though? I dunno...I'm just a more private person in general I guess. Not that I hide anything, I just want to know that I can if I want to...lol. I can't wait to see how that all unfolds and then talk about it. I think there will be some good, differing opinions on that situation.

OK, whatever. If you go back and look at your posts since Saturday, there has been a pattern of you trying to get those of us who disagree with Jackie's behavior to just move on and get off the boards.

I'm going to have to out him...

I won't...but I want to. Oh, do I want to.

There was a Top Chef troll last night. I said, "Where's the goat-cat when we need it?" In the end we settled on a tranquilizer dart!



This is funny : My friend called me Kotka Crack earlier today, because I'm addicting.



I still like Jesse saying he hopes they all get sea sick on the cruise.
Cramp was funny, too!



So did Syndey Pollack



You might want to avoid the Top Chef boards. It gets as personal and off-topic as this one does. Its fun, though! My baby Spike!

Why would I care? I think it's interesting that someone who is in a relationship for a few months is checking out her gf's text messages. I wonder what lead up to it. Frankly I think you are overly concerned with me. I'm really quite flattered that you feel the need to mention me in most every post you make, but really...you can PM me instead of taking up everyones time. Really... the more you post, the more I think you are a high school freshman that just came out and is using this as a platform for your the crap that your local anti straight group is feeding you. Seriously, I would be surprised if you are older than 14.



Please find and quote where I said, what you said I'm saying. Never said that, never implied that. I doubt it's a trust issue with jackie. Probably a control issue. You forgot to mention the fake dying mother. Or was that one of your other screen names that said that?




Attempting to destroy someones life? Oh the drama. Jackie made her bed. Oh wait...does that translate into me wanting her to die? The sponsors were free to dismiss the complaints, or to act on them. They chose to act on them. Blame them, they are taking money out of jackie's pocket. But then that wouldn't fit into your little fantasy world.





Actually it wasnt' the AIDS ep that was banned, it was the puerto rican day one. Because kramer said "that's how *they* are" As usual you don't let the facts get in the way of your rant.

I have not the energy to waste on your idiocy. I doubt the other posters do either. You want to yap about me...PM me, unless you want me to keep embarrassing you in public.

I don't know how to answer that. We've been together since the late 80's and we didn't have cell phones or computers. And we both had access to the answering machine. I tend to trust until someone gives me a reason not to...so maybe I'm not the right one to answer this.

Pee still hasn't provided the number of the post where I said I hated Jackie.
Oh yeah, because it doesn't exist.

I don't care for my boyfriends to go through my things behind my back. I'll show them whatever they want to see on the spot, but show me a little trust and respect.

Please don't post to me any longer. Thank you.

How is it I have so many profile views? Are people going there on the sly? I enjoy seeing who's been there. Log in and show yourselves. I'm very sweet until you attack me

I don't know that we have been like that. Maybe...but I don't think so. We have always been like, "Look! Someone gave me their number or someone wants to get drinks." Like I said, I don't think I am a good one to answer this. Alex goes to the US Open every year with her tennis friends and I go to the Dinah without each other. Every few years we go with each other but for the most part we trust each other enough to know nothing is going to happen.

Oh no! I wasn't referring to you or Alex! I was just adding that I personally don't like it when they don't trust me enough to ask me outright. They haven't all done it but it really changes the relationship when they do.

LMAO...I never thought about that. I can barely remember my life before electronics...wow. I'm the same way with trust. I trust till someone gives me a reason not to, then it's hard to get it back.

Whatever, grow a pair. Thank you!

I agree a ton with this. If you want to know something...ask me and I'll tell you. If you dont' trust me enough to give you the truth...then there are other issues. I hate sneaks. I mean...looking under the bathroom sink to see if someone cleans there is one thing, but looking in a journal or whatever...that's another.

I bet it would be hard for Jackie to trust someone. Her father and she had no relationship, her mother has a hard time with her sexuality, Mimi bite her, and now Brianna has left her. I saw Brianna and she is hot as hell. She is SOOOOOOOOOO hot and I'm not really into blondes.

If I was a gay man, I would probably go for Jesse because he seems to be loyal and he is cute. He has this funny way of moving his mouth that is cute. I bet he could carry his own show with a few sidekicks. You know I love Erika as do all of my brothers. And Rebecca, she just makes you want to gossip all the time but in a fun way. She and Jesse should have a show together with Erika and Gregg P. and Peeler. Now that would be a show. I would watch that show...OHHHHH...I read that Brianna is a trainer, she should be on there as well. She is HOT!!!! JC should be the massuer and I will be the therapist. My first appointment would be with Brianna! LOL!!!!! Silly me, you can't date clients!

Brianna is a trainer? I hope she gets a surge in business from being on the show. It must be painful for her to watch some of it, if she even does. It would be good karma if she got something wonderful out of the experience.

She was at the Dinah last year and this year and was in the fashion show. She has one of those bodies that people would die for. Her butt is incredible and she has perfect thighs and her abs...WOW! I'm ususally a boob girl but her abs and butt were unbelievable. I told Alex she might become the first blonde on my freebie list.

Brianna is very pretty. I'm not a cocktail away from making a move but she's a looker.

Jack123 here are some great articles about The First Amendment and Freedom of Speech.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_amendment_rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_amendment#Freedom_of_speech


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

Freedom of Speech on the Internet
In a rare 9-0 decision, the Supreme Court extended the full protection of the First Amendment to the Internet in Reno vs. ACLU, a decision which struck down portions of the 1996 Communications Decency Act...
The court's decision identified the Internet as a "free speech zone," and extended the same Constitutional protections given to books, magazines, films, and spoken expression to materials published on the Internet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_th...edom_of_thought



Internet censorship and freedom of thought
A Screenshot of a blocked website in Iran.






A current example of censorship and therefore attempted suppression of freedom of thought, is the control of information on the world wide web in such countries as Iran, Saudi Arabia, UK, Egypt, China, Germany and others. In October 2006, Iranian mullahs ordered internet service providers to reduce connection speeds for home and café computers.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_information




Freedom of information (or information freedom) may refer to:

• whether particular information can be freely created, read, modified, copied and distributed—see Free content (as well as Free Culture movement and Free software);
• freedom to express one's opinions or ideas, generally, within a society—see Freedom of speech;
• the accessibility of government-held information—see Freedom of information legislation (as well as Open government).

Are these the First Amendment Rights you were talking about?
Because I was always taught that your rights end where mine begin...

What is your point Snagfuss? I'm not following. You can say anything you like. Your pals want to silence anyone who disagrees and wants to silence Jackie forever and so? Snagglefussfoot? What is your point? I thought you were retired?

Snagfuss, how exactly did I offend you?

As for Kiasmama, well-I'll just reply to her directly.

You didn't offend me Jack, I thought you were looking for articles on the First Amendment...



Sorry I thought you were talking to me...

Yeah I did say my family thought I was nuts for spending so much time on a stupid Reality tv show message board. But I should have clarified that it was a much harsher & more damning condemnation of reality TV & the people who pimp themselves out for a few crumbs of fame, than it was about me and my time here.

Please don't Flame back at me....
All I hear when you do is...

Time for Step it up and Dance!
A bravo show I still watch and support...

To the Lovers and Haters, "Good Night".

We are here to discuss the show Work Out and Bravo has decided not to start a new thread. I have tried to start another one and you can't. This is where the people have started talking so this is where we are at as well. So we all are going to have to put up with each other. Sorry!

Yes, this coming from a wackjob who has spent her days, nights and all time on message boards. You seemed a little off in your posts so I did a google search. It took all of 3 seconds to see that Kiasmama is a sad lonely over-weight depressed person who has been on a number of anti-depressents, lives with her mother (and I am sorry about her illness), has tried the atkins diet, watches way too much television and visits other message boards about it, and whose only relationship beyond her mother is with her bird. Now I understand loving your bird. They are long-term companions and I admire that but don't go pointing fingers and claiming to be here because you are "outraged" by Jackie's behavior. The fact is you're here because this is how you socialize.

Here's the deal. I don't get ugly unless someone shows me their true nature. You revealed yours and it was hideous. Even still, I have compassion for people who are depressed, suffering the pain brought on by a loved one's illness and the loneliness that so many people suffer from. My problem with you is that you have some MAJOR issues and instead of healing yourself by opening your heart and getting out into the light, you post on message boards all day and night. I think DrB would agree (assuming she's a therapist) it could easily be defined as "avoidance." You know that you need help. Message Boards are not REAL relationships.

Yes you did say some very nasty vile things about AIDS. Don't deny it.

You're right. I confused my Seinfeld episodes. I guess you would know since you watch so much tv. It was like 15 years ago!

I'm gay. I'm Puerto Rican. It was all very funny to me and I was never offended. Kiasmama, I'm not attacking you for being who you are and having the issues you do. I take issue with you pointing a hostile finger at others and wasting your time obsessing over Jackie Warner instead of facing your own life. It's one thing to come here for fun to discuss a SHOW about nothing for idle fun but you're hear to pass judgment, be cruel and tell everyone that's not like you that they're wrong. None of that will ever make you a complete or whole person. None of your hate, judgement and hostility will ever make you okay. You need help.

Hey shadowrider, I'm trying to remain neutral here as well.
I know you stated earlier that you didn't want to get attacked, and there have been some flamers come on and yell and complain but I'm trying to keep out of it.

There is one kid named Peglam who I am pretty sure is just some pimply faced teenager that got bored with World of Warcraft online gaming and "Granny Tranny" porn sites and came on here to rile everyone up.
But I recognize his kind from the AICN website, we just shout out "Nerd Alert" and ignore him. Other than that there are a few heated debates that I'm trying to steer clear of....

I have posted on the other threads here regarding Work Out so we do have other options... just wanted to let you know...

Did you guys know that Micah the one red head dude is an actor? I didn't I thought he was one of us and was a client. That he was chosen for Skylab. I found his MySpace page and he has been on quite a few TV shows. Interesting.

I guess kinda of disappointed cause I thougt some day it would be great to get enough $ to work out or apply for to attend Skylab.

thanks! So people are posting on the others threads. I didn't look because I thought all were here.

Snagfuss, there are so many horrible media wh*res out there. I don't even pay attention to any of them anymore. Peeler is one, Paris is one, even Ellen is one. Yes, one could easily call Jackie a media wh0re but since not many people know who she is, I'd say she's either much less a media W or maybe just a very unsuccessful one.

I would rather discuss the show. Jackie is stressed. She wanted success but she's terrified. She's not anywhere near the fitness level she was when she started. Briana was just a quick emotional fix for Jackie. She seems like a very intelligent girl but she's not perfect. Jackie's back with Mimi now. Anyone who works in the mental health field knows this pattern. Jackie is recreating chaos. It's comforting to her. If pain is all you know, then pain is comforting. It takes years to change this sort of pattern. I would love to see Jackie try EMDR. I roll my eyes a lot at this kind of therapy but everyone swears by it.
I read Renessa's blog and have concluded that she is a snide little idiot. Where is this girl's child? If Jackie was behaving this way and then blogging about how her impulsive behavior is how she lives her life in the moment or some bullsh1t like that, you'd be on a war path about what a horrible skank mother Jackie is! I feel sorry for that child! Mommy is just another hollywood skank tryin' to make it big. It's not going to happen. The girl is cute but barely has two brain cells to rub together. I guess that's why she likes Peeler. She can relate on his level.
Greg P is an attractive robot. Rebecca is just as much a media [expletive deleted] but I like her. You have to see her and her "boyfriend" on The Amazing Race III to really appreciate her. She's beyond b1tch on that show and it's very entertaining.
I have to go now.

Snagfuss, I would never "Flame" back at you.

There is one kid named Peglam who I am pretty sure is a pimply faced teenager that got bored with World of Warcraft online gaming and "Granny Tranny" porn sites and came on here to rile everyone up.
But I recognize his kind from the AICN website, we just shout out "Nerd Alert" and ignore him. Other than that there are a few heated debates that I'm trying to steer clear of....

that is too funny! Can't believe you recognize his name!! Did you ever corner him?

Can we just agree to disagree? I haven't been negative toward Jackie or Work Out since I've been back on the boards today - I thought this would keep me out of your cross hairs.

So why not shake hands and call a truce?
Otherwise I walk away from my computer feeling like this...

No No I don't recognize the name sorry... LOL
Just the attitude!
That would be funny!
I edited my original post to make it more clear.

You make me sick, bigot.

It's amazing the haters are still commenting 150 pages later on that one particular incident three episodes ago. Haven't you said enough?  You need to move on with your life, Work Out has.

Jack123, I am proud you have defended your opinions but try not to go to their level.

I am willing to bet this laptop DrB is not a therapist. More, I am sure she is paying one. Good post.

Baby, you are no therapist. You are a very hostile individual who is completely bonkers. Who would be so rude to a stranger for a differing opinion? Now, I won't fight with you, but don't be surprised if my wife decides to chime in. I can only say, hang on to your hat if she does. Now, as I told you the first time...do not post to me again.

The problem is, a lot of people DONT discuss work out. IF you are here to do that, that is exactly what I am here for too. BUT, if you read the pages, there is a lot of hate coming from a few certain people. I have read back, and it seems that the jackie fans are pushed out of here by the few that can't stand to have them around so that they can discuss their own personal stuff (JC, DRB especially). Listen, this board is not for that. I read someone call these people "squatters", I guess that is why they joked about it. But, it seems to me that that is what they are doing. If an opinion is not theirs, they find ways to start fights. I have been on that end now, and I am getting P.O about it. I am not that kind of person, I am not going to be driven off by a few "harpies" (thank you Jack). I have had people PM me and tell me that that is the "agenda" of a few (thank you, for the PMs, to the 4 nice guys). So, don't get all up on me for stating this. PUtting up with eachother should not be the way this board is, and I am not going to be harassed by a few "squatters" because I like Jackie.

Wow.. the mean spirited personal attacks against those that are protesting Jackie's actions on the show has just gotten so out of hand. Our entire country is based on the right to protest and demand changes, and everyone here has the right to protest for, or against, something they believe in. It doesn't matter what the issue or issues are, if someone thinks it's important enough to fight for or against, they have that right. It also doesn't mean that's the only issue someone fights for, or believes in.

I would of been more than willing to give Jackie a second chance if she had ever asked for it or even apologized. The majority of people are good people and willing to forgive, but you can't forgive someone who never takes responsibility for their actions and asks for forgiveness. In fact, a person who goes on and lies about their participation and feels it was no big deal to make fun of another woman's body on national television in their own gym. Why should anyone forgive and move on when that person sees nothing wrong with what they've done? How can anyone forgive that?

If people don't want to drop the Jamie incident until an apology is given, they have that right. If people feel strongly enough about it and want to push for the show to be canceled, they have that right too. Just as the people who think otherwise, they too have the right to support it, but geez, support it without name calling, accusing posters of things they have no idea as to whether it's true or not , or saying they have no right to protest in any way.

Just because people are angry and upset with Jackie, doesn't make them anti-gay or evil people. From what I've seen, it makes them people who don't want to see another human being verbally degraded on national tv; on a program that they watch that is advertised supposedly about building one's mental and physical well being.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean that others should move on or drop what they feel is important. If we all dropped issues that we believe in, then change would never happen.

I have read the posts from earlier on. this is how it ALWAYS happens:
Pro jackie posts.
anti jackie people welcome them.
pro jackies post nice things
anti jackie people cherry pick from the post and grill them on why they like jackie
pro jackies try to explain
anti jackies begin to get a little ruder and continue to grilll.
Look, if you go back and read some of the posts (I didn't until Jack123 suggested I do so) it is obvious what is happening here. Hey man, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with Jackie and what she did. Nothing. But, how long does that go on? I mean, it shouldn't go on for weeks or months. The show should be discussed, and opinions should be shared and respected. I don't like to get nasty with people. but, when they push my buttons, I have to go on the defense. And, there are a few people that have done just that. the people that don't like Jackie get to post it all they want, but when someone that does like her does the same, they are bashed and then told not to attack and to play nice. Everything is turned around on them. Lets just be nice to eachother. I don't like to get nasty or ugly, but I will if I have to because we ALL deserve respect. Some didn;t like my suggestion to go to yahoo. Ok, fine, but don't get nasty about it. I don't think it was offensive to suggest that. I am on a yahoo group for boxing. Its a lot of fun. We even meet outside for events. Its a good time. That is what the Yahoo groups are about. They are meant for getting together and doing fun stuff. I am sorry, this board is a workout board. No, I don't have an agenda. I just don't want to get attacked for having a differing opinion. When I read the posts, i see that is how it begins, one post asks why someone likes jackies, then, before you know it...the poster is smeared. That is why Jack123 writes what he does. He is PO,and wants to discusss work out.

Why shouldn't it go on for weeks or months? If someone wants to make a change, then what, complain for a few days and then just give up? No, change doesn't happen overnight and if you want to see something happen it might be a long haul of protesting. Because you disagree with this issue over Jackie, I truly understand you just want the backlash to go away, that would make it easy. The problem is, when people believe in something and fight for it, it's never easy. This problem is not going to go away because you wish it so.

I understand you felt that personal posting was inappropriate, but at the same time those that responded to you didn't swear or name call. You might of thought some responses were rude, and while I disagree with how you took them, at least they were not downright crude or nasty.

The majority of anti-Jackie posts have been about that, their disgust with Jackie's conduct. Very RARELY do they go on a tangent of personally verbally attacking other posters. If you're going to use Jack123 as you example, then lets look at his posts and you tell me how that's not being ugly or nasty? These are just a FEW, of his last ones. If you are giving Jack123 the ok to post like this, then you are giving those that respond the same permission:

[quote name='Larceny' post='261114' date='May 30, 2008 - 07:11 AM']Wow.. the mean spirited personal attacks against those that are protesting Jackie's actions on the show has just gotten so out of hand. Our entire country is based on the right to protest and demand changes, and everyone here has the right to protest for, or against, something they believe in. It doesn't matter what the issue or issues are, if someone thinks it's important enough to fight for or against, they have that right. It also doesn't mean that's the only issue someone fights for, or believes in.

I would of been more than willing to give Jackie a second chance if she had ever asked for it or even apologized. The majority of people are good people and willing to forgive, but you can't forgive someone who never takes responsibility for their actions and asks for forgiveness. In fact, a person who goes on and lies about their participation and feels it was no big deal to make fun of another woman's body on national television in their own gym. Why should anyone forgive and move on when that person sees nothing wrong with what they've done? How can anyone forgive that?

If people don't want to drop the Jamie incident until an apology is given, they have that right. If people feel strongly enough about it and want to push for the show to be canceled, they have that right too. Just as the people who think otherwise, they too have the right to support it, but geez, support it without name calling, accusing posters of things they have no idea as to whether it's true or not , or saying they have no right to protest in any way.

Just because people are angry and upset with Jackie, doesn't make them anti-gay or evil people. From what I've seen, it makes them people who don't want to see another human being verbally degraded on national tv; on a program that they watch that is advertised supposedly about building one's mental and physical well being.

Just because you disagree doesn't mean that others should move on or drop what they feel is important. If we all dropped issues that we believe in, then change would never happen.[/quo

..and, sure it could go on for weeks or months, but imo, it sucks the life out of this board, thats all. Plus, when someone new comes on, the territorial ones freak out and push them awy. That is why its not good. And, to protest a show is one cause that should be shifted to other things in the world. My neighbor is fighting a horrible disease. I wish money could be raised for it (I don't know the name of it as I sit here) and those people that are fighting for those people are angels. Or, MDA, or cancer. Those are the true soldiers, and warriors. But this? No, I disagree about fighting for it. I mean, turn off the tv then. Join the american cancer society and really fight. They need volunteers. I just did a relay for them, and believe me, they can use more volunteers. So, that is where the fight is, not here, on workout.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here as I'm not Lliam, you're responding to Larceny. Those are my posts, not Lliam's.

If Jack123 has felt he was attacked, then it's ok to post like some of the examples I gave above? If that's the case, then anyone who feels attacked should then have that same excuse to be crude, nasty and demeaning; whether pro-jackie or anti-jackie. How are his responses having anything to do about the show? It's all about personal attacks.

I totally disagree that the people who are upset with Jackie want the pro-Jackie posters off the board. They just don't want posts like the example above of Jack123's.

By talking about Jackie's actions on her show, we ARE talking about the show. What do you think we're talking about? It's all about her and the show. It's all about how we feel about her and the show. It's all about how some of us feel she's destroyed the show and that it's no longer about respect, personal mental growth or improving one's body image. It's about how we feel it's become nasty, disrespectful, and demeaning to those that are on the show.