Full Version: Top Chef -- Off-Topic
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I come from down in the valley
Where mister when you're young
They bring you up to do like your daddy done
Me and Mary we met in high school
When she was just seventeen
We'd drive out of this valley down to where the fields were green
We'd go down
to the river
And into the river we'd dive
Oh down to the river we'd ride
Then I got Mary pregnant
And man that was all she wrote
And for my nineteenth birthday I got a union card and a wedding coat
We went down to the courthouse
And the judge put it all to rest
No wedding day smiles, no walk down the aisle
No flowers, no wedding dress
That night we went down to the river
And into the river we'd dive
Oh down to the river we did ride
I got a job working construction for the Johnstown Company
But lately there ain't been much work on account of the economy
Now all them things that seemed so important
Well mister they vanished right into the air
Now I just act like I don't remember
Mary acts like she don't care
But I remember us riding in my brother's car
Her body tan and wet down at the reservoir
At night on them banks I'd lie awake
And pull her close just to feel each breath she'd take
Now those memories come back to haunt me
They haunt me like a curse
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true
Or is it something worse,
That sends me down to the river
Though I know the river is dry
That sends me down to the river tonight
Down to the river
My baby and I
Oh down to the river we ride
(Tevye)
"Golde, I have decided to give Perchik permission to become engaged to our daughter, Hodel."
(Golde)
"What??? He's poor! He has nothing, absolutely nothing!"
(Tevye)
"He's a good man, Golde.
I like him. And what's more important, Hodel likes him. Hodel loves him.
So what can we do?
It's a new world... A new world. Love. Golde..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I what?
(Tevye)
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
With our daughters getting married
And this trouble in the town
You're upset, you're worn out
Go inside, go lie down!
Maybe it's indigestion
(Tevye)
"Golde I'm asking you a question..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
You're a fool
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
For twenty-five years I've washed your clothes
Cooked your meals, cleaned your house
Given you children, milked the cow
After twenty-five years, why talk about love right now?
(Tevye)
Golde, The first time I met you
Was on our wedding day
I was scared
(Golde)
I was shy
(Tevye)
I was nervous
(Golde)
So was I
(Tevye)
But my father and my mother
Said we'd learn to love each other
And now I'm asking, Golde
Do you love me?
(Golde)
I'm your wife
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought with him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?
(Tevye)
Then you love me?
(Golde)
I suppose I do
(Tevye)
And I suppose I love you too
(Both)
It won't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know
"Golde, I have decided to give Perchik permission to become engaged to our daughter, Hodel."
(Golde)
"What??? He's poor! He has nothing, absolutely nothing!"
(Tevye)
"He's a good man, Golde.
I like him. And what's more important, Hodel likes him. Hodel loves him.
So what can we do?
It's a new world... A new world. Love. Golde..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I what?
(Tevye)
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
With our daughters getting married
And this trouble in the town
You're upset, you're worn out
Go inside, go lie down!
Maybe it's indigestion
(Tevye)
"Golde I'm asking you a question..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
You're a fool
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
For twenty-five years I've washed your clothes
Cooked your meals, cleaned your house
Given you children, milked the cow
After twenty-five years, why talk about love right now?
(Tevye)
Golde, The first time I met you
Was on our wedding day
I was scared
(Golde)
I was shy
(Tevye)
I was nervous
(Golde)
So was I
(Tevye)
But my father and my mother
Said we'd learn to love each other
And now I'm asking, Golde
Do you love me?
(Golde)
I'm your wife
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought with him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?
(Tevye)
Then you love me?
(Golde)
I suppose I do
(Tevye)
And I suppose I love you too
(Both)
It won't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know
!!! WARNING / WARNING / WARNING !!!
Religious sermon/diatribe to follow quotation
One of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise.
First, a question for my old buddy, KSbear -- I remember watching this when I was a high school senior visiting our old alma mater. I think the college was doing it as a Jan Term production. I'm just wondering if you were in the cast.
Second -- and now for the sermon/diatribe: Back in the 1980s, in my younger, gay activist days, I was active locally and nationally in the lesbian/gay movement in my childhood church denomination. Our local L/G fellowship (this was before we always included the B and T in the abbreviation) hosted a worship service for guests from area congregations of the denomination. I agreed to be the guest "preacher" for the evening.
I built my sermon around this song. To me, the church was Tevye, and its L/G clergy and parishioners were Golde. The church (like Tevye) never really cared what we were going through, or what we wanted or needed. Instead (again, like Tevye), all it cared about was wanting to be sure that we "loved" it.
L/G clergy and parishioners (like Golde) would respond with a long list of our demonstrations of love -- Even though you condemn us as hopeless sinners, engage in witchhunts to find us, and discriminate against us unapologetically, we still sing in your choirs, play your organs, put money in your offering plates, chair your committees, and even (for clergy) live closeted lives based on lies just to serve you. All this, and you still have the nerve to ask if we love you! "If that's not love, what is?"
To which the church (again, like Tevye), simply responds, as if it hasn't listened to a thing we've said, "But do you love me?"
L/G clergy and parishioners (again, like Golde) throw our arms up in the air in frustrated surrender and say "I suppose I do."
And that, I pointed out in my sermon, is where the similarity between song and church reality ends! Twenty years ago, and still today, we are still waiting for the church to respond, "And I suppose I love you, too."
Of course, I was young and naive when I gave that sermon. I still believed that there was hope for the institutional church (not just my childhood denomination but most of Christendom), that it somehow, someday might choose love and welcome over judgment and exclusiveness. Now, I know better. Much of institutional religion was one of the last forces to abandon support for slavery or to support equal rights for women. It still is one of the most racially segregated, and least handicapped friendly, aspects of society. I have accepted that I will die before I ever hear the church in which I was raised, and to which I dedicated the first 35 or so years of my life, ever say "And I suppose I love you, too."
Sorry folks for the sermon/diatribe. But, as much as I love this song, I can no longer hear it without bringing back bitter, painful memories.
Religious sermon/diatribe to follow quotation
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 04:37 PM) 
(Tevye)
"Golde, I have decided to give Perchik permission to become engaged to our daughter, Hodel."
(Golde)
"What??? He's poor! He has nothing, absolutely nothing!"
(Tevye)
"He's a good man, Golde.
I like him. And what's more important, Hodel likes him. Hodel loves him.
So what can we do?
It's a new world... A new world. Love. Golde..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I what?
(Tevye)
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
With our daughters getting married
And this trouble in the town
You're upset, you're worn out
Go inside, go lie down!
Maybe it's indigestion
(Tevye)
"Golde I'm asking you a question..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
You're a fool
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
For twenty-five years I've washed your clothes
Cooked your meals, cleaned your house
Given you children, milked the cow
After twenty-five years, why talk about love right now?
(Tevye)
Golde, The first time I met you
Was on our wedding day
I was scared
(Golde)
I was shy
(Tevye)
I was nervous
(Golde)
So was I
(Tevye)
But my father and my mother
Said we'd learn to love each other
And now I'm asking, Golde
Do you love me?
(Golde)
I'm your wife
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?
(Tevye)
Then you love me?
(Golde)
I suppose I do
(Tevye)
And I suppose I love you too
(Both)
It won't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know
"Golde, I have decided to give Perchik permission to become engaged to our daughter, Hodel."
(Golde)
"What??? He's poor! He has nothing, absolutely nothing!"
(Tevye)
"He's a good man, Golde.
I like him. And what's more important, Hodel likes him. Hodel loves him.
So what can we do?
It's a new world... A new world. Love. Golde..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I what?
(Tevye)
Do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
With our daughters getting married
And this trouble in the town
You're upset, you're worn out
Go inside, go lie down!
Maybe it's indigestion
(Tevye)
"Golde I'm asking you a question..."
Do you love me?
(Golde)
You're a fool
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love you?
For twenty-five years I've washed your clothes
Cooked your meals, cleaned your house
Given you children, milked the cow
After twenty-five years, why talk about love right now?
(Tevye)
Golde, The first time I met you
Was on our wedding day
I was scared
(Golde)
I was shy
(Tevye)
I was nervous
(Golde)
So was I
(Tevye)
But my father and my mother
Said we'd learn to love each other
And now I'm asking, Golde
Do you love me?
(Golde)
I'm your wife
(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?
(Golde)
Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?
(Tevye)
Then you love me?
(Golde)
I suppose I do
(Tevye)
And I suppose I love you too
(Both)
It won't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know
One of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise.
First, a question for my old buddy, KSbear -- I remember watching this when I was a high school senior visiting our old alma mater. I think the college was doing it as a Jan Term production. I'm just wondering if you were in the cast.
Second -- and now for the sermon/diatribe: Back in the 1980s, in my younger, gay activist days, I was active locally and nationally in the lesbian/gay movement in my childhood church denomination. Our local L/G fellowship (this was before we always included the B and T in the abbreviation) hosted a worship service for guests from area congregations of the denomination. I agreed to be the guest "preacher" for the evening.
I built my sermon around this song. To me, the church was Tevye, and its L/G clergy and parishioners were Golde. The church (like Tevye) never really cared what we were going through, or what we wanted or needed. Instead (again, like Tevye), all it cared about was wanting to be sure that we "loved" it.
L/G clergy and parishioners (like Golde) would respond with a long list of our demonstrations of love -- Even though you condemn us as hopeless sinners, engage in witchhunts to find us, and discriminate against us unapologetically, we still sing in your choirs, play your organs, put money in your offering plates, chair your committees, and even (for clergy) live closeted lives based on lies just to serve you. All this, and you still have the nerve to ask if we love you! "If that's not love, what is?"
To which the church (again, like Tevye), simply responds, as if it hasn't listened to a thing we've said, "But do you love me?"
L/G clergy and parishioners (again, like Golde) throw our arms up in the air in frustrated surrender and say "I suppose I do."
And that, I pointed out in my sermon, is where the similarity between song and church reality ends! Twenty years ago, and still today, we are still waiting for the church to respond, "And I suppose I love you, too."
***
Of course, I was young and naive when I gave that sermon. I still believed that there was hope for the institutional church (not just my childhood denomination but most of Christendom), that it somehow, someday might choose love and welcome over judgment and exclusiveness. Now, I know better. Much of institutional religion was one of the last forces to abandon support for slavery or to support equal rights for women. It still is one of the most racially segregated, and least handicapped friendly, aspects of society. I have accepted that I will die before I ever hear the church in which I was raised, and to which I dedicated the first 35 or so years of my life, ever say "And I suppose I love you, too."
Sorry folks for the sermon/diatribe. But, as much as I love this song, I can no longer hear it without bringing back bitter, painful memories.
I love you all, don't get me wrong. I hope that Lyric Wars will soon be over.
Yes, KSBoy, I was in the production. I was Yussel, the hatter. Not a very big part, p\but I did get to dance with Chava in the wedding and I was a bottle dancer!!! I was the first to drop a bottle during performance and was devastated. Jack Eddleman, the director, told me that I proved to everyone we were really balancing them on our heads. After that, I never dropped my bottle again...others did. We actually balanced them. They were weighted with wax and had velcro on the bottom that did nothing to help keep them on. On Broadway, the hats had a compartment that the bottles recessed into. You have a good memory!
QUOTE (KSboy @ May 6, 2008 - 05:21 PM)
!!! WARNING / WARNING / WARNING !!!
Religious sermon/diatribe to follow quotation
One of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise.
First, a question for my old buddy, KSbear -- I remember watching this when I was a high school senior visiting our old alma mater. I think the college was doing it as a Jan Term production. I'm just wondering if you were in the cast.
Second -- and now for the sermon/diatribe: Back in the 1980s, in my younger, gay activist days, I was active locally and nationally in the lesbian/gay movement in my childhood church denomination. Our local L/G fellowship (this was before we always included the B and T in the abbreviation) hosted a worship service for guests from area congregations of the denomination. I agreed to be the guest "preacher" for the evening.
I built my sermon around this song. To me, the church was Tevye, and its L/G clergy and parishioners were Golde. The church (like Tevye) never really cared what we were going through, or what we wanted or needed. Instead (again, like Tevye), all it cared about was wanting to be sure that we "loved" it.
L/G clergy and parishioners (like Golde) would respond with a long list of our demonstrations of love -- Even though you condemn us as hopeless sinners, engage in witchhunts to find us, and discriminate against us unapologetically, we still sing in your choirs, play your organs, put money in your offering plates, chair your committees, and even (for clergy) live closeted lives based on lies just to serve you. All this, and you still have the nerve to ask if we love you! "If that's not love, what is?"
To which the church (again, like Tevye), simply responds, as if it hasn't listened to a thing we've said, "But do you love me?"
L/G clergy and parishioners (again, like Golde) throw our arms up in the air in frustrated surrender and say "I suppose I do."
And that, I pointed out in my sermon, is where the similarity between song and church reality ends! Twenty years ago, and still today, we are still waiting for the church to respond, "And I suppose I love you, too."
Of course, I was young and naive when I gave that sermon. I still believed that there was hope for the institutional church (not just my childhood denomination but most of Christendom), that it somehow, someday might choose love and welcome over judgment and exclusiveness. Now, I know better. Much of institutional religion was one of the last forces to abandon support for slavery or to support equal rights for women. It still is one of the most racially segregated, and least handicapped friendly, aspects of society. I have accepted that I will die before I ever hear the church in which I was raised, and to which I dedicated the first 35 or so years of my life, ever say "And I suppose I love you, too."
Sorry folks for the sermon/diatribe. But, as much as I love this song, I can no longer hear it without bringing back bitter, painful memories.
Religious sermon/diatribe to follow quotation
One of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise.
First, a question for my old buddy, KSbear -- I remember watching this when I was a high school senior visiting our old alma mater. I think the college was doing it as a Jan Term production. I'm just wondering if you were in the cast.
Second -- and now for the sermon/diatribe: Back in the 1980s, in my younger, gay activist days, I was active locally and nationally in the lesbian/gay movement in my childhood church denomination. Our local L/G fellowship (this was before we always included the B and T in the abbreviation) hosted a worship service for guests from area congregations of the denomination. I agreed to be the guest "preacher" for the evening.
I built my sermon around this song. To me, the church was Tevye, and its L/G clergy and parishioners were Golde. The church (like Tevye) never really cared what we were going through, or what we wanted or needed. Instead (again, like Tevye), all it cared about was wanting to be sure that we "loved" it.
L/G clergy and parishioners (like Golde) would respond with a long list of our demonstrations of love -- Even though you condemn us as hopeless sinners, engage in witchhunts to find us, and discriminate against us unapologetically, we still sing in your choirs, play your organs, put money in your offering plates, chair your committees, and even (for clergy) live closeted lives based on lies just to serve you. All this, and you still have the nerve to ask if we love you! "If that's not love, what is?"
To which the church (again, like Tevye), simply responds, as if it hasn't listened to a thing we've said, "But do you love me?"
L/G clergy and parishioners (again, like Golde) throw our arms up in the air in frustrated surrender and say "I suppose I do."
And that, I pointed out in my sermon, is where the similarity between song and church reality ends! Twenty years ago, and still today, we are still waiting for the church to respond, "And I suppose I love you, too."
***
Of course, I was young and naive when I gave that sermon. I still believed that there was hope for the institutional church (not just my childhood denomination but most of Christendom), that it somehow, someday might choose love and welcome over judgment and exclusiveness. Now, I know better. Much of institutional religion was one of the last forces to abandon support for slavery or to support equal rights for women. It still is one of the most racially segregated, and least handicapped friendly, aspects of society. I have accepted that I will die before I ever hear the church in which I was raised, and to which I dedicated the first 35 or so years of my life, ever say "And I suppose I love you, too."
Sorry folks for the sermon/diatribe. But, as much as I love this song, I can no longer hear it without bringing back bitter, painful memories.
And, because, as a young person who was grasping at straws to understand their place in religion, you've taken a beautiful song, from one of the most powerful shows ever put on Broadway, and bastardised it to fit, what you wanted it to fit, and ruined it for yourself.
"Fiddler" is a huge show, but not really. It's about a simple man, and his relationship to G_d, and the extents that he will "bend" to do right by his family. He "bends" a lot, though when his youngest daughter chooses to love a non-Jew, he can no longer "bend" and he banishes his daughter; a heartbreaking scene. I know my father was a Jew, and I knew the faith well, but Drew couldn't be with me until I took my back my true faith. I understood this, and, therefore, I gladly converted.
This particular song is about his coming to terms with the new world, though, and he finally wants to put a name to what he feels for his wife; something that would have never occured to him before this. He and his wife were mere children when their marriage was arranged, and he finally wants what he sees his children having; have words spoken to him that they've never said to each other, and he wants his wife to tell him the truth. I cry every time I see it. I cried when I posted it, in fact.
I would hope that you would rethink your reaction to this song, as it's really quite beautiful, and you're missing out on what is a highpoint of what has been called "the most powerful movie musical ever made" (Pauline Kael, 1971)
I've tried to be as clear here as I can, but faith is something that can muddle even the clearest of minds. I hope I got through, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
QUOTE (bJason @ May 6, 2008 - 05:43 PM)
I love you all, don't get me wrong. I hope that Lyric Wars will soon be over.
Oh, it wasn't really a war, per se. It was a time when someone would come up with something, and the next person would say "well, how about this". I looked at it as a way to exchange works of art that matters to one. I'm sorry if you didn't enjoy it, but I had fun, and I hope some others, who were reading, did, as well.
QUOTE (KSBEAR @ May 6, 2008 - 06:07 PM)
They were weighted with wax and had velcro on the bottom that did nothing to help keep them on.
Geez, I didn't even know they had velcro back in the dark ages of our college days!
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 06:11 PM)
And, because, as a young person who was grasping at straws to understand their place in religion, you've taken a beautiful song, from one of the most powerful shows ever put on Broadway, and bastardised it to fit, what you wanted it to fit, and ruined it for yourself.
"Fiddler" is a huge show, but not really. It's about a simple man, and his relationship to G_d, and the extents that he will "bend" to do right by his family. He "bends" a lot, though when his youngest daughter chooses to love a non-Jew, he can no longer "bend" and he banishes his daughter; a heartbreaking scene. I know my father was a Jew, and I knew the faith well, but Drew couldn't be with me until I took my back my true faith. I understood this, and, therefore, I gladly converted.
This particular song is about his coming to terms with the new world, though, and he finally wants to put a name to what he feels for his wife; something that would have never occured to him before this. He and his wife were mere children when their marriage was arranged, and he finally wants what he sees his children having; have words spoken to him that they've never said to each other, and he wants his wife to tell him the truth. I cry every time I see it. I cried when I posted it, in fact.
I would hope that you would rethink your reaction to this song, as it's really quite beautiful, and you're missing out on what is a highpoint of what has been called "the most powerful movie musical ever made" (Pauline Kael, 1971)
I've tried to be as clear here as I can, but faith is something that can muddle even the clearest of minds. I hope I got through, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
"Fiddler" is a huge show, but not really. It's about a simple man, and his relationship to G_d, and the extents that he will "bend" to do right by his family. He "bends" a lot, though when his youngest daughter chooses to love a non-Jew, he can no longer "bend" and he banishes his daughter; a heartbreaking scene. I know my father was a Jew, and I knew the faith well, but Drew couldn't be with me until I took my back my true faith. I understood this, and, therefore, I gladly converted.
This particular song is about his coming to terms with the new world, though, and he finally wants to put a name to what he feels for his wife; something that would have never occured to him before this. He and his wife were mere children when their marriage was arranged, and he finally wants what he sees his children having; have words spoken to him that they've never said to each other, and he wants his wife to tell him the truth. I cry every time I see it. I cried when I posted it, in fact.
I would hope that you would rethink your reaction to this song, as it's really quite beautiful, and you're missing out on what is a highpoint of what has been called "the most powerful movie musical ever made" (Pauline Kael, 1971)
I've tried to be as clear here as I can, but faith is something that can muddle even the clearest of minds. I hope I got through, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.
Different songs produce different memories for different people -- sometimes good, sometimes not so. I shared one of my memories.
I actually was proud of that analogy then, and still think it was accurate. In fact, your response actually gives more detail about why the analogy was -- and is -- so apt.
As you say, the song is about a man "coming to terms with the new world" and is also about "the extent to which he will 'bend' to do right by his family." Both descriptions were fully appropriate to the church 20 years ago, and still are. The church continues to wrestle with how and even whether modern-day understandings about sexuality can be reconciled with traditional understandings of morality -- in other words, "coming to terms with the new world." Similarly, the church acknowledges (reluctantly, to be sure) that we LGBT people are part of its family. It just can't figure out (or doesn't want to figure out) how much it can or should "'bend' to do right by" our part of the family.
I believe that I started my initial post (other than the warning at the top) by saying that "Do You Love Me?" is "one of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise." Obviously, I haven't "ruined" the song for myself.
I would never tell someone that they have "bastardized" a song because of the emotional significance that it has for them personally. I may not understand why or how someone finds a meaning that I simply do not see. But that's what makes music, like all other art work, so special -- it enables the individual viewer, listener, participant, to find his/her own special meaning and message. And it really just doesn't matter whether anyone else gets the same meaning at all.
QUOTE (KSboy @ May 6, 2008 - 04:21 PM)
!!! WARNING / WARNING / WARNING !!!
Religious sermon/diatribe to follow quotation
One of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise.
First, a question for my old buddy, KSbear -- I remember watching this when I was a high school senior visiting our old alma mater. I think the college was doing it as a Jan Term production. I'm just wondering if you were in the cast.
Second -- and now for the sermon/diatribe: Back in the 1980s, in my younger, gay activist days, I was active locally and nationally in the lesbian/gay movement in my childhood church denomination. Our local L/G fellowship (this was before we always included the B and T in the abbreviation) hosted a worship service for guests from area congregations of the denomination. I agreed to be the guest "preacher" for the evening.
I built my sermon around this song. To me, the church was Tevye, and its L/G clergy and parishioners were Golde. The church (like Tevye) never really cared what we were going through, or what we wanted or needed. Instead (again, like Tevye), all it cared about was wanting to be sure that we "loved" it.
L/G clergy and parishioners (like Golde) would respond with a long list of our demonstrations of love -- Even though you condemn us as hopeless sinners, engage in witchhunts to find us, and discriminate against us unapologetically, we still sing in your choirs, play your organs, put money in your offering plates, chair your committees, and even (for clergy) live closeted lives based on lies just to serve you. All this, and you still have the nerve to ask if we love you! "If that's not love, what is?"
To which the church (again, like Tevye), simply responds, as if it hasn't listened to a thing we've said, "But do you love me?"
L/G clergy and parishioners (again, like Golde) throw our arms up in the air in frustrated surrender and say "I suppose I do."
And that, I pointed out in my sermon, is where the similarity between song and church reality ends! Twenty years ago, and still today, we are still waiting for the church to respond, "And I suppose I love you, too."
Of course, I was young and naive when I gave that sermon. I still believed that there was hope for the institutional church (not just my childhood denomination but most of Christendom), that it somehow, someday might choose love and welcome over judgment and exclusiveness. Now, I know better. Much of institutional religion was one of the last forces to abandon support for slavery or to support equal rights for women. It still is one of the most racially segregated, and least handicapped friendly, aspects of society. I have accepted that I will die before I ever hear the church in which I was raised, and to which I dedicated the first 35 or so years of my life, ever say "And I suppose I love you, too."
Sorry folks for the sermon/diatribe. But, as much as I love this song, I can no longer hear it without bringing back bitter, painful memories.
Religious sermon/diatribe to follow quotation
One of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise.
First, a question for my old buddy, KSbear -- I remember watching this when I was a high school senior visiting our old alma mater. I think the college was doing it as a Jan Term production. I'm just wondering if you were in the cast.
Second -- and now for the sermon/diatribe: Back in the 1980s, in my younger, gay activist days, I was active locally and nationally in the lesbian/gay movement in my childhood church denomination. Our local L/G fellowship (this was before we always included the B and T in the abbreviation) hosted a worship service for guests from area congregations of the denomination. I agreed to be the guest "preacher" for the evening.
I built my sermon around this song. To me, the church was Tevye, and its L/G clergy and parishioners were Golde. The church (like Tevye) never really cared what we were going through, or what we wanted or needed. Instead (again, like Tevye), all it cared about was wanting to be sure that we "loved" it.
L/G clergy and parishioners (like Golde) would respond with a long list of our demonstrations of love -- Even though you condemn us as hopeless sinners, engage in witchhunts to find us, and discriminate against us unapologetically, we still sing in your choirs, play your organs, put money in your offering plates, chair your committees, and even (for clergy) live closeted lives based on lies just to serve you. All this, and you still have the nerve to ask if we love you! "If that's not love, what is?"
To which the church (again, like Tevye), simply responds, as if it hasn't listened to a thing we've said, "But do you love me?"
L/G clergy and parishioners (again, like Golde) throw our arms up in the air in frustrated surrender and say "I suppose I do."
And that, I pointed out in my sermon, is where the similarity between song and church reality ends! Twenty years ago, and still today, we are still waiting for the church to respond, "And I suppose I love you, too."
***
Of course, I was young and naive when I gave that sermon. I still believed that there was hope for the institutional church (not just my childhood denomination but most of Christendom), that it somehow, someday might choose love and welcome over judgment and exclusiveness. Now, I know better. Much of institutional religion was one of the last forces to abandon support for slavery or to support equal rights for women. It still is one of the most racially segregated, and least handicapped friendly, aspects of society. I have accepted that I will die before I ever hear the church in which I was raised, and to which I dedicated the first 35 or so years of my life, ever say "And I suppose I love you, too."
Sorry folks for the sermon/diatribe. But, as much as I love this song, I can no longer hear it without bringing back bitter, painful memories.
Hey...not saying this sarcastically....Fiddler on the Roof is my second favorite all time musical, the first being Man of La Mancha! (Course, I played bass clarinet and didn't have to sing for any of these LOL) BUT....you have some great points in this, and they are points I would never have considered. I am working on a difficult assignment for creative writing, and this gives me insight into an entirely different way to approach the assignment.
So....while I should be annoyed at having this song's viewpoint changed for me, I am actually grateful and can say thank you....with no sarcasm intended.
Be well
Jazzie
ok, no more lyrics for me.
Jackie will be 7 this month and we're having a party at the local sportsman's club. Outdoors, pond, fishing.
I was thinking of a scavenger hunt. Aside from the usual, leaf, bug.... help me think of more to put on the list. I did it last year and the kids loved it. Something different.
Jackie will be 7 this month and we're having a party at the local sportsman's club. Outdoors, pond, fishing.
I was thinking of a scavenger hunt. Aside from the usual, leaf, bug.... help me think of more to put on the list. I did it last year and the kids loved it. Something different.
QUOTE (KSboy @ May 6, 2008 - 06:32 PM)
Different songs produce different memories for different people -- sometimes good, sometimes not so. I shared one of my memories.
I actually was proud of that analogy then, and still think it was accurate. In fact, your response actually gives more detail about why the analogy was -- and is -- so apt.
As you say, the song is about a man "coming to terms with the new world" and is also about "the extent to which he will 'bend' to do right by his family." Both descriptions were fully appropriate to the church 20 years ago, and still are. The church continues to wrestle with how and even whether modern-day understandings about sexuality can be reconciled with traditional understandings of morality -- in other words, "coming to terms with the new world." Similarly, the church acknowledges (reluctantly, to be sure) that we LGBT people are part of its family. It just can't figure out (or doesn't want to figure out) how much it can or should "'bend' to do right by" our part of the family.
I believe that I started my initial post (other than the warning at the top) by saying that "Do You Love Me?" is "one of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise." Obviously, I haven't "ruined" the song for myself.
I would never tell someone that they have "bastardized" a song because of the emotional significance that it has for them personally. I may not understand why or how someone finds a meaning that I simply do not see. But that's what makes music, like all other art work, so special -- it enables the individual viewer, listener, participant, to find his/her own special meaning and message. And it really just doesn't matter whether anyone else gets the same meaning at all.
I actually was proud of that analogy then, and still think it was accurate. In fact, your response actually gives more detail about why the analogy was -- and is -- so apt.
As you say, the song is about a man "coming to terms with the new world" and is also about "the extent to which he will 'bend' to do right by his family." Both descriptions were fully appropriate to the church 20 years ago, and still are. The church continues to wrestle with how and even whether modern-day understandings about sexuality can be reconciled with traditional understandings of morality -- in other words, "coming to terms with the new world." Similarly, the church acknowledges (reluctantly, to be sure) that we LGBT people are part of its family. It just can't figure out (or doesn't want to figure out) how much it can or should "'bend' to do right by" our part of the family.
I believe that I started my initial post (other than the warning at the top) by saying that "Do You Love Me?" is "one of my favorite songs, show tune or otherwise." Obviously, I haven't "ruined" the song for myself.
I would never tell someone that they have "bastardized" a song because of the emotional significance that it has for them personally. I may not understand why or how someone finds a meaning that I simply do not see. But that's what makes music, like all other art work, so special -- it enables the individual viewer, listener, participant, to find his/her own special meaning and message. And it really just doesn't matter whether anyone else gets the same meaning at all.
I actually reconsidered that word several times, as I really didn't want to offend, but I couldn't think of anything else that came close to how I felt, and I took an ill advised chance. Maybe I shouldn't have posted, but I would think, since you brought it up in the first place, that you knew the can of worms you were opening. We are casual friends, though, and I would hope that this wouldn't change that.
We all view works of art differently, and we all should agree to disagree. At the end of my post I did say that I hoped I didn't offend anyone, but two things, religion and politics, will bring out the best and worst in people. I don't agree with your points, but does that mean they won't be brought up in later conversations that I have with people? I thought they were interesting, and I would rather disagree with "interesting", than shrug my shoulders at "vapid".
And something good did come from your post. I had something to think about, always a good thing, and I will put on the DVD when I get home tonight. So, you know, thanks, and, once again, I'm sorry if you were offended.
Oh, and, strangely enough, my being gay had nothing to do with what I wrote. When I went to Bishop McNamara two of the brothers who showed me how to live a life were lovers, and our Rabbi is gay. I've never thought twice about doctrine, because I've been shown positive gay role models in both the Catholic and Jewish faiths. It never occured to me. Strange, huh?
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ May 6, 2008 - 04:51 PM)
Meatballs and pineapple???
Why I oughta. To the moon Alice.
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 05:35 PM)
ok, no more lyrics for me.
Jackie will be 7 this month and we're having a party at the local sportsman's club. Outdoors, pond, fishing.
I was thinking of a scavenger hunt. Aside from the usual, leaf, bug.... help me think of more to put on the list. I did it last year and the kids loved it. Something different.
Jackie will be 7 this month and we're having a party at the local sportsman's club. Outdoors, pond, fishing.
I was thinking of a scavenger hunt. Aside from the usual, leaf, bug.... help me think of more to put on the list. I did it last year and the kids loved it. Something different.
LOL....um, tadpoles and/or frogs? In the bug category, don't forget the worms! Sorry, my kidlet hasn't been seven for awhile, and my mind blanks. Good luck, and let us know what the final list is? Please? Well, I gotta go stir my soup, turn it off and take a nap! Later all!
Jazzie
PS: I see the pineapple things have resurfaced. *Shaking head at KK* If you follow that reasoning, maybe you should include chips and all the other fun foods LOL!
QUOTE (IronChef @ May 5, 2008 - 08:48 PM)
I know there were at least a few of you out there who were concerned about my situation at work. Well, late last week, the hammer dropped and all sorts of stuff hit the fan.
When the company recently offered 50% of our employees the voluntary severance package, they were apparently looking for around 155 acceptances. They got 55, so they had to take further measures to pare things down. The result is that they're restructuring our department by merging three of our sub-departments (Graphics, Traffic and Preflight) into one and outsourcing the bulk of our Graphics operation to India (sigh--grr--sigh). Those three departments (around 54 people) will have to reapply for the jobs (in some cases their own existing jobs) that will exist in the "new world" (about 26 positions) and train the folks in India. Those who aren't lucky enough to win one of the new positions will be eligible for the severance package. If they're offered a position but have to turn it down (we're a 24/7 newspaper operation, so there will be some afternooon, evening and overnight shifts that some just won't find attractive or feasible), they will not be eligible for the package.
As of right now, I'm not in any of the three restructured departments, so I'm unaffected. For now, that is. This restructurisation adds 26 to the 55 voluntary, but that still leaves 74 cuts before they hit their quota of 155. So I'm not out of the woods just yet.
The only glimmer of hope for me is that in my 8 years with the company, I've made a name for myself as the "pick up slack wherever necessary" girl. I've routinely volunteered to train for and perform lots of different jobs within our department, thinking every new task would make me a little more valuable (sure, sure, it's a major "kissass maneuver," but if it keeps me on the payroll [and I actually do the payroll since our AA got fired], then "kissass" is just good thinking).
I also just had my yearly evaluation done today, and it went better than expected. I was actually put in for a 6% raise (the max allowable), because I apparently got some really good feedback from other departments as well as our own. I know a few of you won't believe it, but I actually play really well with others in person, on the phone and via email!
Still, all the asskissing in the world doesn't mean my job is safe, just safe for right now. I'm told this restructurisation will take until September, at which point they'll re-evaluate things.
This is all waaaaaaaaay TMI, I know. I think I'm just giving myself a major pep-talk, and trying to play up the positive as much as I can. The real downer is that so many of the people I know--people who have become friends and extended family for me in the past 8 years--are facing the axe, and I don't know how to deal with that emotionally or interactively.
When the company recently offered 50% of our employees the voluntary severance package, they were apparently looking for around 155 acceptances. They got 55, so they had to take further measures to pare things down. The result is that they're restructuring our department by merging three of our sub-departments (Graphics, Traffic and Preflight) into one and outsourcing the bulk of our Graphics operation to India (sigh--grr--sigh). Those three departments (around 54 people) will have to reapply for the jobs (in some cases their own existing jobs) that will exist in the "new world" (about 26 positions) and train the folks in India. Those who aren't lucky enough to win one of the new positions will be eligible for the severance package. If they're offered a position but have to turn it down (we're a 24/7 newspaper operation, so there will be some afternooon, evening and overnight shifts that some just won't find attractive or feasible), they will not be eligible for the package.
As of right now, I'm not in any of the three restructured departments, so I'm unaffected. For now, that is. This restructurisation adds 26 to the 55 voluntary, but that still leaves 74 cuts before they hit their quota of 155. So I'm not out of the woods just yet.
The only glimmer of hope for me is that in my 8 years with the company, I've made a name for myself as the "pick up slack wherever necessary" girl. I've routinely volunteered to train for and perform lots of different jobs within our department, thinking every new task would make me a little more valuable (sure, sure, it's a major "kissass maneuver," but if it keeps me on the payroll [and I actually do the payroll since our AA got fired], then "kissass" is just good thinking).
I also just had my yearly evaluation done today, and it went better than expected. I was actually put in for a 6% raise (the max allowable), because I apparently got some really good feedback from other departments as well as our own. I know a few of you won't believe it, but I actually play really well with others in person, on the phone and via email!
Still, all the asskissing in the world doesn't mean my job is safe, just safe for right now. I'm told this restructurisation will take until September, at which point they'll re-evaluate things.
This is all waaaaaaaaay TMI, I know. I think I'm just giving myself a major pep-talk, and trying to play up the positive as much as I can. The real downer is that so many of the people I know--people who have become friends and extended family for me in the past 8 years--are facing the axe, and I don't know how to deal with that emotionally or interactively.
IC, I feel your pain, because I've been there. From the mid-'80s to the early '90s, I worked as an editor for a large environmental organization. With daddy Bush's recession (as opposed to junior's current recession), everyone in the organization knew that significant layoffs were imminent and that the publications department would probably take a heavy hit. I remember the fear and low morale this caused, as well as the way everyone was trying to be nice to each other while secretly hoping that the guy/gal in the office next door got the axe instead of yours truly. I had had outstanding performance reviews every year; I had been the go-to person that many people went to when they needed help solving a problem. I was convinced that I would be one of the people laid off, while other people kept telling me that if any one person was safe from layoff, it was me. Unfortunately, when the axe fell, my head hit the floor, while several heads that had assured me I was safe went untouched.
This may sound like a depressing story that will not help you at all. Believe me, it is not meant to be. Being laid off was actually a blessing in disguise. So many people whom I had worked with used their contacts to help me build a successful freelancing business. Others who were laid off and got jobs elsewhere mentioned me when their new employers needed a freelance editor to help them out for a while. In the end, within a few weeks of losing my job, I had built up a 6 month backlog of freelance work I could do. When I decided a year later that I wanted to go back to full time work and got a "real job," I had claimed almost none of the unemployment benefits that I would have been entitled to.
The prospect of being laid off can be terrifying. But, if you have built a name for yourself as someone who is dependable and a real problem-solver, you can be just amazed at how much unanticipated help you get at networking to help you get back on your feet thriving.
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 06:17 PM)
Oh, it wasn't really a war, per se. It was a time when someone would come up with something, and the next person would say "well, how about this". I looked at it as a way to exchange works of art that matters to one. I'm sorry if you didn't enjoy it, but I had fun, and I hope some others, who were reading, did, as well.
And I hope my post didn't diminish your enjoyment! I shall go back and do a review. I'm sure that great stuff is there. Thanks!
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 06:52 PM)
I actually reconsidered that word several times, as I really didn't want to offend, but I couldn't think of anything else that came close to how I felt, and I took an ill advised chance. Maybe I shouldn't have posted, but I would think, since you brought it up in the first place, that you knew the can of worms you were opening. We are casual friends, though, and I would hope that this wouldn't change that.
We all view works of art differently, and we all should agree to disagree. At the end of my post I did say that I hoped I didn't offend anyone, but two things, religion and politics, will bring out the best and worst in people. I don't agree with your points, but does that mean they won't be brought up in later conversations that I have with people? I thought they were interesting, and I would rather disagree with "interesting", than shrug my shoulders at "vapid".
And something good did come from your post. I had something to think about, always a good thing, and I will put on the DVD when I get home tonight. So, you know, thanks, and, once again, I'm sorry if you were offended.
Oh, and, strangely enough, my being gay had nothing to do with what I wrote. When I went to Bishop McNamara two of the brothers who showed me how to live a life were lovers, and our Rabbi is gay. I've never thought twice about doctrine, because I've been shown positive gay role models in both the Catholic and Jewish faiths. It never occured to me. Strange, huh?
We all view works of art differently, and we all should agree to disagree. At the end of my post I did say that I hoped I didn't offend anyone, but two things, religion and politics, will bring out the best and worst in people. I don't agree with your points, but does that mean they won't be brought up in later conversations that I have with people? I thought they were interesting, and I would rather disagree with "interesting", than shrug my shoulders at "vapid".
And something good did come from your post. I had something to think about, always a good thing, and I will put on the DVD when I get home tonight. So, you know, thanks, and, once again, I'm sorry if you were offended.
Oh, and, strangely enough, my being gay had nothing to do with what I wrote. When I went to Bishop McNamara two of the brothers who showed me how to live a life were lovers, and our Rabbi is gay. I've never thought twice about doctrine, because I've been shown positive gay role models in both the Catholic and Jewish faiths. It never occured to me. Strange, huh?
I wasn't "offended" by your post, in the least. I just felt it was appropriate to respond to some of the points you made.
I am rarely offended by people who speak their minds frankly. I tend to be a direct speaker and writer. As such, I respect honest, direct (but still polite) expression, even when I disagree with it strongly. I have far more trouble respecting people who are so concerned with being diplomatic and "liked" that they water down their words so much that any meaning and significance is thoroughly washed away.
QUOTE (KSboy @ May 6, 2008 - 07:06 PM)
I wasn't "offended" by your post, in the least. I just felt it was appropriate to respond to some of the points you made.
I am rarely offended by people who speak their minds frankly. I tend to be a direct speaker and writer. As such, I respect honest, direct (but still polite) expression, even when I disagree with it strongly. I have far more trouble respecting people who are so concerned with being diplomatic and "liked" that they water down their words so much that any meaning and significance is thoroughly washed away.
I am rarely offended by people who speak their minds frankly. I tend to be a direct speaker and writer. As such, I respect honest, direct (but still polite) expression, even when I disagree with it strongly. I have far more trouble respecting people who are so concerned with being diplomatic and "liked" that they water down their words so much that any meaning and significance is thoroughly washed away.
Okay, maybe I'm being obtuse, but, are you saying that I was being overly diplomatic, because that's something that I've rarely been accused of. Obviously I want to be respected, but I would also like to continue being thought of as a friend, and I'm uncertain about what you're saying here.
Oh, and for a little levity:
"It used to be said that on the sabbath Jews would come in, grab a christian baby, and kill it. Well, that's b*llshit. We would grab the baby, and make it work for us, cause somebody has to light sh*t, and it ain't going to be me. Those of you in the audience, just turn and explain it to the others."
- Lewis Black "at Carnagie Hall" - 2005
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ May 6, 2008 - 05:14 PM)
LOL
OK well.....Can it be things that you hide yourself??
Or are we one with Mother Nature???
I would hide treasures......candy and Matchbox cars and coloring books and you know.
BUT they could have to find a four leaf clover.
That should keep the screaming and punching down to a minimun for a bit....Well the girls usually scream and the boys they wrastle and punch. ...Don't I know it
I LOVE to give a party.....Especially kidlets
I waaaaaaaaanna come!
I give the best presents wrapped like a present.
I'm a good wrapper..Candy and toys all over it.
I'm always the favorite aunt..I ain't really a stooonad.
OK well.....Can it be things that you hide yourself??
Or are we one with Mother Nature???
I would hide treasures......candy and Matchbox cars and coloring books and you know.
BUT they could have to find a four leaf clover.
That should keep the screaming and punching down to a minimun for a bit....Well the girls usually scream and the boys they wrastle and punch. ...Don't I know it
I LOVE to give a party.....Especially kidlets
I waaaaaaaaanna come!
I give the best presents wrapped like a present.
I'm a good wrapper..Candy and toys all over it.
I'm always the favorite aunt..I ain't really a stooonad.
I was going to hide some of the plastic easter eggs filled with kisses and a penny (penny will be on the list) I like the idea of matchbox cars too.
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ May 6, 2008 - 05:45 PM)
A penny????
OHMG....... we are in the dark ages.
Girl...... at least a nickel.
OHMG....... we are in the dark ages.
Girl...... at least a nickel.
They ARE going to get prizes. Penny isn't a reward. Just an item on the list. Read new siggy. Who loves you baby?
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ May 6, 2008 - 06:22 PM)
LOL!!!!!!
Aww I made the cut.
Could you put my phone number on your
sig please
Free advertising.
Do they even know what a penny is anymore????
OK...off hook.
Nice place for a party for real.....I miss it
all and of course......Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake
Dollar Tree is the best dollar store....They have great party stuff and packs of toys and little animals and such.....I was thinking you could get little frogs and such ..plastic of course....Stuff for your theme...But natural stuff..how about a lilly pad...a weeping willow branch...a rock of a certain color.Yeah.... a certain color flower...I guess it's endless and sounds like fun.
Remember pollynoses???
OHMG I loved those..You stick them on your nose and they were like helicopters.
Then we had itchy balls...We had itchy ball fights.....They are like a prickly ball from a tree.
And chesnuts... We would tie a string through a chesnut and play something.
GAWD we were poor
Nah never poor thank Gawd.
Just right in the middle sometimes leaning to the other side with 4 kids..But we never got what our kids get.
We dunked for apples with pennies in them..lol
What kind of cake will he want??
My sis goes to Walmart the evil empire and they always look great.
Aww I made the cut.
Could you put my phone number on your
sig please
Free advertising.
Do they even know what a penny is anymore????
OK...off hook.
Nice place for a party for real.....I miss it
all and of course......Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake
Dollar Tree is the best dollar store....They have great party stuff and packs of toys and little animals and such.....I was thinking you could get little frogs and such ..plastic of course....Stuff for your theme...But natural stuff..how about a lilly pad...a weeping willow branch...a rock of a certain color.Yeah.... a certain color flower...I guess it's endless and sounds like fun.
Remember pollynoses???
OHMG I loved those..You stick them on your nose and they were like helicopters.
Then we had itchy balls...We had itchy ball fights.....They are like a prickly ball from a tree.
And chesnuts... We would tie a string through a chesnut and play something.
GAWD we were poor
Nah never poor thank Gawd.
Just right in the middle sometimes leaning to the other side with 4 kids..But we never got what our kids get.
We dunked for apples with pennies in them..lol
What kind of cake will he want??
My sis goes to Walmart the evil empire and they always look great.
Never heard of pollynoses. Yep, gonna hit the Dollar Tree and stock up on party favors and such.
Egads no weeping willows. I had the misfortune of having a weeping willow in the front yard growing up. Had THOSE parents. You know, the ones who'd make you go out and pick your own switch for a whooping.
Apple bobbing!!! Another excellent idea. Also like the idea of plastic bugs and frogs as I am a typical girl and the real mccoys freak me out.
We always get a pinata too. As far as the cake goes, he wants Speed Racer or Iron Man. Damned commercials. I go to Walmart reluctantly. I saw a documentary about how many businesses have gone under because of them. It's so damned convenient!!!!! Everything in one place. Since moving to BFE I do the majority of shopping on my lunch hour. I seldom "go to town" on the weekends because of the inconvenience and the gas prices.
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 08:34 PM)
Never heard of pollynoses. Yep, gonna hit the Dollar Tree and stock up on party favors and such.
Egads no weeping willows. I had the misfortune of having a weeping willow in the front yard growing up. Had THOSE parents. You know, the ones who'd make you go out and pick your own switch for a whooping.
Apple bobbing!!! Another excellent idea. Also like the idea of plastic bugs and frogs as I am a typical girl and the real mccoys freak me out.
We always get a pinata too. As far as the cake goes, he wants Speed Racer or Iron Man. Damned commercials. I go to Walmart reluctantly. I saw a documentary about how many businesses have gone under because of them. It's so damned convenient!!!!! Everything in one place. Since moving to BFE I do the majority of shopping on my lunch hour. I seldom "go to town" on the weekends because of the inconvenience and the gas prices.
Egads no weeping willows. I had the misfortune of having a weeping willow in the front yard growing up. Had THOSE parents. You know, the ones who'd make you go out and pick your own switch for a whooping.
Apple bobbing!!! Another excellent idea. Also like the idea of plastic bugs and frogs as I am a typical girl and the real mccoys freak me out.
We always get a pinata too. As far as the cake goes, he wants Speed Racer or Iron Man. Damned commercials. I go to Walmart reluctantly. I saw a documentary about how many businesses have gone under because of them. It's so damned convenient!!!!! Everything in one place. Since moving to BFE I do the majority of shopping on my lunch hour. I seldom "go to town" on the weekends because of the inconvenience and the gas prices.
I saw that doc, "Wall Mart: The High cost of Low Pricing", and I remember it because 1) It was well made, and 2) they had people going to the showings and any employees who showed would be dismissed. I thought that had to be a load of BS, that is until I ran into one of them online, and it proved to be true.
I still shop there on the rare occasion when it can't be helped, but, as a life long union man, I try to not do it, or, at the very least, let no one I respect see me do so.
Yeah, I know, I'm a wuss.
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 06:35 PM)
ok, no more lyrics for me.
Jackie will be 7 this month and we're having a party at the local sportsman's club. Outdoors, pond, fishing.
I was thinking of a scavenger hunt. Aside from the usual, leaf, bug.... help me think of more to put on the list. I did it last year and the kids loved it. Something different.
Jackie will be 7 this month and we're having a party at the local sportsman's club. Outdoors, pond, fishing.
I was thinking of a scavenger hunt. Aside from the usual, leaf, bug.... help me think of more to put on the list. I did it last year and the kids loved it. Something different.
Fish... Swedish fish.
Fire wood... pretzel rods.
Worms... gummy worms.
Deer "tracks"... brown jelly beans or malted milk balls.
Pine cones and/or Acorns... I got nuttin'.
Dang. My suggestions are all snack related. LOL! Guess I'm in need of a snack and didn't realize!
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ May 6, 2008 - 08:49 PM)
Sounds really good.... We used to play hot
potato..The game where you pass the potato under the neck...And of course pin the tail on daddy
AND always musical chairs...BUT the most fun game of all was my father would line up all the kidlets....And we had to be quiet we couldn't laugh or talk
(wonder why there )
and he would do all kinds of funny faces and say silly stuff till one by one we would all be out and the last kid standing would get...........a penny
And the slap your hands game.....We loved
it and so do my nephews...You place your hands in the palm of theirs and the they turn
their hands over really quickly and try to slap the others before they pull away.
I swear to GOD it makes them laugh like crazy
and they never want to stop.
I only go to Walmart since the 4 dollar prescriptions...Before that no way for MANY reasons....Same with Starsnobs till they now give benefits to part time peeps.
Power to the peeps.
(stolen from River kinda sorta')
potato..The game where you pass the potato under the neck...And of course pin the tail on daddy
AND always musical chairs...BUT the most fun game of all was my father would line up all the kidlets....And we had to be quiet we couldn't laugh or talk
(wonder why there
) and he would do all kinds of funny faces and say silly stuff till one by one we would all be out and the last kid standing would get...........a penny
And the slap your hands game.....We loved
it and so do my nephews...You place your hands in the palm of theirs and the they turn
their hands over really quickly and try to slap the others before they pull away.
I swear to GOD it makes them laugh like crazy
and they never want to stop.
I only go to Walmart since the 4 dollar prescriptions...Before that no way for MANY reasons....Same with Starsnobs till they now give benefits to part time peeps.
Power to the peeps.
(stolen from River kinda sorta')
I'm not smoking now, so I must go to Starbucks at least 5 times a day. I go so often I give my barristers Christmas bonuses.
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 08:52 PM)
Fish... Swedish fish.
Fire wood... pretzel rods.
Worms... gummy worms.
Deer "tracks"... brown jelly beans or malted milk balls.
Pine cones and/or Acorns... I got nuttin'.
Dang. My suggestions are all snack related. LOL! Guess I'm in need of a snack and didn't realize!
Fire wood... pretzel rods.
Worms... gummy worms.
Deer "tracks"... brown jelly beans or malted milk balls.
Pine cones and/or Acorns... I got nuttin'.
Dang. My suggestions are all snack related. LOL! Guess I'm in need of a snack and didn't realize!
Snacks are your gift from the Cosmos for staying awake. You should indulge in as many as you can fit into a day. It's the law.
You then can have a nap as a reward for not eating a whole meal.
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 06:52 PM)
Fish... Swedish fish.
Fire wood... pretzel rods.
Worms... gummy worms.
Deer "tracks"... brown jelly beans or malted milk balls.
Pine cones and/or Acorns... I got nuttin'.
Dang. My suggestions are all snack related. LOL! Guess I'm in need of a snack and didn't realize!
Fire wood... pretzel rods.
Worms... gummy worms.
Deer "tracks"... brown jelly beans or malted milk balls.
Pine cones and/or Acorns... I got nuttin'.
Dang. My suggestions are all snack related. LOL! Guess I'm in need of a snack and didn't realize!
Parts those are great ideas too. Since I am not one with nature me likes a lot. Much to the chagrin of all my boys, my idea of camping is the closest Holiday Inn. We're thinking of making it a camp out too. That way, hub can pitch the tent and I can go home after they all crap out. Or slightly before. We only live 3 blocks away. That is very nice. They can tent it and I can make them a hearty bug free breakfast at home.
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 08:56 PM)
Snacks are your gift from the Cosmos for staying awake. You should indulge in as many as you can fit into a day. It's the law.
You then can have a nap as a reward for not eating a whole meal.
You then can have a nap as a reward for not eating a whole meal.
That, my friend, will go into my new book of laws. Snacking is the law. One must snack.
I am envying your Starbuck's pit stops. Nearest one here is 10 miles north on the parkway... at the rest stop on the parkway. Yeah. That's a treat...
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 07:02 PM)
That, my friend, will go into my new book of laws. Snacking is the law. One must snack.
I am envying your Starbuck's pit stops. Nearest one here is 10 miles north on the parkway... at the rest stop on the parkway. Yeah. That's a treat...
I am envying your Starbuck's pit stops. Nearest one here is 10 miles north on the parkway... at the rest stop on the parkway. Yeah. That's a treat...
Too pricey for me. Remember, I have a family of four and a $10 a night budget. Plus, the closest one has the worst parking lot and exit. Wrecks there all the time. And the traffic messes with the Fire Station next door. So, as a good citizen, I avoid that area.
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 08:59 PM)
Parts those are great ideas too. Since I am not one with nature me likes a lot. Much to the chagrin of all my boys, my idea of camping is the closest Holiday Inn. We're thinking of making it a camp out too. That way, hub can pitch the tent and I can go home after they all crap out. Or slightly before. We only live 3 blocks away. That is very nice. They can tent it and I can make them a hearty bug free breakfast at home.
Very cool, Cyd. I love camping, hunting, fishing... anything outdoors. With that said I will admit that I do not like worms or handling frogs. They fall in the "they feel icky" category for me.
Your plan for the party is really cool. It's out of the box. If my daughter is invited to one more Funplex Birthday Party I'm gonna hurl. Woodsy girl does not do loud clanging noises with grace.
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 09:04 PM)
Too pricey for me. Remember, I have a family of four and a $10 a night budget. Plus, the closest one has the worst parking lot and exit. Wrecks there all the time. And the traffic messes with the Fire Station next door. So, as a good citizen, I avoid that area.
Oh! I so agree! Starbuck's is my once in a while luxury but I envy Bear soooo much! And I am completely on your side about patronizing places in bad intersection locations. Wawa here has the cheapest gas but I absolutely refuse to use one that impedes the flow of traffic. You're right. It is being a good citizen!
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 09:02 PM)
That, my friend, will go into my new book of laws. Snacking is the law. One must snack.
I am envying your Starbuck's pit stops. Nearest one here is 10 miles north on the parkway... at the rest stop on the parkway. Yeah. That's a treat...
I am envying your Starbuck's pit stops. Nearest one here is 10 miles north on the parkway... at the rest stop on the parkway. Yeah. That's a treat...
Hey, I must be funny. I've already annoyed people, so I don't have any margins for error.
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 07:06 PM)
Very cool, Cyd. I love camping, hunting, fishing... anything outdoors. With that said I will admit that I do not like worms or handling frogs. They fall in the "they feel icky" category for me.
Your plan for the party is really cool. It's out of the box. If my daughter is invited to one more Funplex Birthday Party I'm gonna hurl. Woodsy girl does not do loud clanging noises with grace.
Your plan for the party is really cool. It's out of the box. If my daughter is invited to one more Funplex Birthday Party I'm gonna hurl. Woodsy girl does not do loud clanging noises with grace.
Those funplex parties are a drag. Overrated by far. Not something I've ever done for my boys. They've suggested it, ok course. I tell them we can go there with 1 or 2 friends or your mom can throw you a kick butt party with as many friends as you'd like.
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ May 6, 2008 - 09:07 PM)
OHMGAWD
Starsnobs is SO overrated and SO over priced.
If you were my man you would be on a tight budget and a tight leash
And NOT for the kinky sex either.
Dancing W /The Stars is on now.. Special edition.
Starsnobs is SO overrated and SO over priced.
If you were my man you would be on a tight budget and a tight leash
And NOT for the kinky sex either.
Dancing W /The Stars is on now.. Special edition.
Excuse me, but I can't smoke, one of my favorite things, and you are going to deny me Starbucks too? It's not going to happen, and now, I know why we aren't married; I mean besides that whole having sex with men thing.
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 09:17 PM)
Those funplex parties are a drag. Overrated by far. Not something I've ever done for my boys. They've suggested it, ok course. I tell them we can go there with 1 or 2 friends or your mom can throw you a kick butt party with as many friends as you'd like.
Amen. A while back one of our post-ers (brillke? IC?) took 7 year olds to Chuck E. Cheese. I prayed for her. I couldn't do it. I honestly cannot handle the noise. I have nothing but respect for parents who can handle it. They take the heat off of me!
Can I come to your party?
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ May 6, 2008 - 09:24 PM)
Pfffffffftttttttt
You would make a pot of 8 O'Clock
at work and like it....I love having sex with
men......What's the problem??
I'll share.
Mario Lopez is on next speaking of loving to have sex with hot latin men.
I was.. wasn't I???
Apollo was just on with his beautiful blonde parrtner.
Awww and swooooooon
You would make a pot of 8 O'Clock
at work and like it....I love having sex with
men......What's the problem??
I'll share.
Mario Lopez is on next speaking of loving to have sex with hot latin men.
I was.. wasn't I???
Apollo was just on with his beautiful blonde parrtner.
Awww and swooooooon
Sweetie, what part of being a Bear, and liking big hot Bear men, do you not get?
And if I made a pot at 8, I would also make one at 10, and one at 12, and one at 2 and so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby. They would also be made from pricey Starbucks coffee, so where would the savings come in?
That's the difference between you and Drew. He knows better than to try and change me. That and about 9", and you can't compete with that.
I know. Too much information.
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 07:29 PM)
Amen. A while back one of our post-ers (brillke? IC?) took 7 year olds to Chuck E. Cheese. I prayed for her. I couldn't do it. I honestly cannot handle the noise. I have nothing but respect for parents who can handle it. They take the heat off of me!
Can I come to your party?
Can I come to your party?
But of course. All are welcome. I think I'll smoke a fresh ham and make dogs for the kiddies.
We can give Jazzie a day off and she can enjoy the midwest sunshine for a day. And nap to her hearts content.
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 09:29 PM)
Amen. A while back one of our post-ers (brillke? IC?) took 7 year olds to Chuck E. Cheese. I prayed for her. I couldn't do it. I honestly cannot handle the noise. I have nothing but respect for parents who can handle it. They take the heat off of me!
Can I come to your party?
Can I come to your party?
For his 12th birthday we took Denny and 5 friends to Morton's of Chicago. It was a special occasion, and we can afford it. I just can't deal with the kidlet joints, though we did do Cactus Cantina for a post baseball game bash. Denny had hit his first home run for his school team, and he chose that place.
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 07:40 PM)
For his 12th birthday we took Denny and 5 friends to Morton's of Chicago. It was a special occasion, and we can afford it.
Colio's 12th will be his golden birthday, so we'll do something special too. That would be nice.
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 09:38 PM)
But of course. All are welcome. I think I'll smoke a fresh ham and make dogs for the kiddies.
We can give Jazzie a day off and she can enjoy the midwest sunshine for a day. And nap to her hearts content.
We can give Jazzie a day off and she can enjoy the midwest sunshine for a day. And nap to her hearts content.
Yay! To say thanks... I'll help clean!
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 09:42 PM)
Colio's 12th will be his golden birthday, so we'll do something special too. That would be nice.
My ignorance is showing... better that than my slip/bra/panties... What is a golden birthday?
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 07:46 PM)
Yay! To say thanks... I'll help clean!
I'm sneaking out early and leaving that to the hub.
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 07:48 PM)
My ignorance is showing... better that than my slip/bra/panties... What is a golden birthday?
He was born on the 12th, so his 12th birthday is called golden. Mine was 29, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 09:40 PM)
For his 12th birthday we took Denny and 5 friends to Morton's of Chicago. It was a special occasion, and we can afford it. I just can't deal with the kidlet joints, though we did do Cactus Cantina for a post baseball game bash. Denny had hit his first home run for his school team, and he chose that place.
That's cool. I can "suck it up" for special occasions but when I get home I want my pot of coffee and absolute utter silence. Oh! Don't know when Denny hit his homer but congrats! Very cool
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 09:49 PM)
I'm sneaking out early and leaving that to the hub.
You're smart... I'm taking notes!
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 09:50 PM)
He was born on the 12th, so his 12th birthday is called golden. Mine was 29, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away.
Ohhhhh! Thanks!
LOL! Wish I'd known that last year when mine turned seven on the seventh. Ach! What she doesn't know won't kill her
QUOTE (partsgirl @ May 6, 2008 - 07:55 PM)
Ohhhhh! Thanks!
LOL! Wish I'd known that last year when mine turned seven on the seventh. Ach! What she doesn't know won't kill her
LOL! Wish I'd known that last year when mine turned seven on the seventh. Ach! What she doesn't know won't kill her
Firm believer in that philosophy
QUOTE (chucole @ May 6, 2008 - 07:34 PM)
Never heard of pollynoses. Yep, gonna hit the Dollar Tree and stock up on party favors and such.
Egads no weeping willows. I had the misfortune of having a weeping willow in the front yard growing up. Had THOSE parents. You know, the ones who'd make you go out and pick your own switch for a whooping.
Apple bobbing!!! Another excellent idea. Also like the idea of plastic bugs and frogs as I am a typical girl and the real mccoys freak me out.
We always get a pinata too. As far as the cake goes, he wants Speed Racer or Iron Man. Damned commercials. I go to Walmart reluctantly. I saw a documentary about how many businesses have gone under because of them. It's so damned convenient!!!!! Everything in one place. Since moving to BFE I do the majority of shopping on my lunch hour. I seldom "go to town" on the weekends because of the inconvenience and the gas prices.
Egads no weeping willows. I had the misfortune of having a weeping willow in the front yard growing up. Had THOSE parents. You know, the ones who'd make you go out and pick your own switch for a whooping.
Apple bobbing!!! Another excellent idea. Also like the idea of plastic bugs and frogs as I am a typical girl and the real mccoys freak me out.
We always get a pinata too. As far as the cake goes, he wants Speed Racer or Iron Man. Damned commercials. I go to Walmart reluctantly. I saw a documentary about how many businesses have gone under because of them. It's so damned convenient!!!!! Everything in one place. Since moving to BFE I do the majority of shopping on my lunch hour. I seldom "go to town" on the weekends because of the inconvenience and the gas prices.
LOL I had THOSE parents as well you better not get a small switch..lol I finally got wise and my Mom said go fetch a switch for your whoopin.. So I took a saw and cut a branch off the tree and dragged it back to her.... I said here is your switch... she just stared at me with that huge limb and could not help but bust up laughing.... needless to say I was spared the rod... she just hugged me and told me to go to my room...
But it was a story that got said every family reunion from there on out...
QUOTE (actor59 @ May 6, 2008 - 10:00 PM)
LOL I had THOSE parents as well you better not get a small switch..lol I finally got wise and my Mom said go fetch a switch for your whoopin.. So I took a saw and cut a branch off the tree and dragged it back to her.... I said here is your switch... she just stared at me with that huge limb and could not help but bust up laughing.... needless to say I was spared the rod... she just hugged me and told me to go to my room...
But it was a story that got said every family reunion from there on out...
But it was a story that got said every family reunion from there on out...
Damn, that was smart. I wish I could say that I had done that, cause I would brag about it too.
QUOTE (dcjewbear @ May 6, 2008 - 07:17 PM)
Okay, maybe I'm being obtuse, but, are you saying that I was being overly diplomatic, because that's something that I've rarely been accused of. Obviously I want to be respected, but I would also like to continue being thought of as a friend, and I'm uncertain about what you're saying here.
Are you kidding? Seriously? Could I possibly, even remotely think of you as diplomatic?
What I was trying to say, good buddy, is that you don't offend me because I like, prefer, respect people who are direct and to the point in what they say and write (like you and me), in contrast to people who try so hard to not say anything that might be offensive that they say nothing of value at all (and NO, that is NOT meant as a comment directed at any of the fine folk on these boards).
Well, I was supposed to take Drew and Denny to the movies tonight, but, between Denny having homework, and Drew just dragging in the door about 5 minutes ago, you can see that really happened.
I'm going to grill him some liver and onions, and then talk over his day. We're going to bed after that, so I'll catch youse folks on the rebop. Have a good night, and it's been a slice.
Byyyeee....
I'm going to grill him some liver and onions, and then talk over his day. We're going to bed after that, so I'll catch youse folks on the rebop. Have a good night, and it's been a slice.
Byyyeee....
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