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actor59
QUOTE (johnw @ April 8, 2008 - 10:48 PM) *
I would hope that it was an honest mistake in your stating that FEMA was formed because of the problems presented by Katrina. FEMA has been around since 1803 in some form or another. Unfortunately, because of 9/11, much of the moneys that would go towards natural disaster relief out of necessity is shared by national security against terrorism. It's a bad world we live in.

I thought I was clear as to the delay in bringing relief and evacuating the Katrina victims...something about first responders being the local and state authorities - In a nutshell, failed levees, failed security measures, lack of food, water and toilet facilities, no busses to transport (they were under water thanks to Nagin) - these are all local failures, not federal - Nagin and Blanco being so relunctant to order a mandatory evacuation until it was too late except to blame the Feds for their own mistakes.

Another problem was that many of the residents in the flood areas refused to leave their homes because they didn't want to leave their pets and for other reasons finally had to be rescued off of the roofs of their homes by the Feds in boats.

As for Michael Chertoff, I'm with you on him. I think he is ill-suited for the job as far as disasters like Katrina are concerned. I also think that his predecessor, Michael Brown, got a bad rap. Brown had no problem with Mississippi or Alabama. A year earlier in 2004, three hurricanes devestated Florida in a six-week period and Brown handled those hurricanes with aplumb. Had Blanco had not denied the Feds access to the Superdome with the food, water and medical supplies, Brown would have gotten a pat on the back. Instead he took the blame when Blanco should have been censored for the incompetent she is. The locals knew who was to blame which is why Blanco did not run for reelection. When ABC interviewed some of the Katrina victims, they got a real surprise when the victims praised Bush and blamed Ray Nagin.

http://www.newsbusters.org/node/1201

I'm sure that Actor has some horror stories to tell as there were many victims who suffered greatly whether it was a loss of their home, business and/or loved ones. As for the failures of this administration there are plenty but I wonder how things might have gone if Gore or Kerry were president. They would be facing the same problems (Don't forget - it was the Dems who gave Bush approval to go into Iraq and it was the Dems who first called for the removal of Saddam and his WMD's starting in 1998) as Bush is facing - illegal immigration, healthcare, a pending social security crisis, an oncoming recession etc.

Walter Reed Hospital - I think you should give Bush some slack as he did spend some time there and apologized to the patients and the staff for the poor conditions and promised to fix them. The President addressed about 100 medical workers and patients telling them that "The system failed you and it failed our troops and we are going to fix it."

Part of the fix involved replacing military staff in charge of the hospital. Bush also took the time to interview patients and staff to pinpoint the problems.

So in the end Bush recognized there were both bureaucratic and administrative problems that need solving.

That last sentence in your post to me -where have I seen that before? Maybe several times before. I believe over on the Yahoo Answers forum in the political section.


John trying to be polite here but where are you from? Did you wait out Katrina as I did or did you just sit back and watch CNNN? Did you walk over to the St. Claude Bridge and walk across it and see bodies floating in the flooded water as I did? Were you feeding the 1,000 that were picked up in the lower 9Th by boats and feed them the only thing they got was a rescue and a bottle of water. John do you have pics from your camera during the eye of the storm like I do? Do you even know what a neighborhood that stayed and shared every thing they had is all about? Do you really think during this catastrophe we even thought about oh I hope the Government will bail us out?
NO! All we thought about was my God we need to feed these peeps. we need to hug them. We need to not fall apart.... Do You even Know what it is too see a friend who after this thing see's you and tells you he saw his whole family drown before his eyes?
Do You Know what it is like to drive out of a city and your car or truck is so full that you can not take anyone else and they have to stay behind and fend for their own?
If you have lived in this JohnW then I'll listen to whatever you have to say... if not... STFUP.
notevayas
QUOTE (actor59 @ April 8, 2008 - 11:42 PM) *
John trying to be polite here but where are you from? Did you wait out Katrina as I did or did you just sit back and watch CNNN? Did you walk over to the St. Claude Bridge and walk across it and see bodies floating in the flooded water as I did? Were you feeding the 1,000 that were picked up in the lower 9Th by boats and feed them the only thing they got was a rescue and a bottle of water. John do you have pics from your camera during the eye of the storm like I do? Do you even know what a neighborhood that stayed and shared every thing they had is all about? Do you really think during this catastrophe we even thought about oh I hope the Government will bail us out?
NO! All we thought about was my God we need to feed these peeps. we need to hug them. We need to not fall apart.... Do You even Know what it is too see a friend who after this thing see's you and tells you he saw his whole family drown before his eyes?
Do You Know what it is like to drive out of a city and your car or truck is so full that you can not take anyone else and they have to stay behind and fend for their own?
If you have lived in this JohnW then I'll listen to whatever you have to say... if not... STFUP.


Actor, you have lived through hell and I say this as someone who has no first hand experience with such massive horror. We, in Massachusetts saw many of the scenes you describe from helicopter cameras on the tv news. And we were shocked to the core to think that this madness and suffering especially for the disabled, elderly, children could drag on for days and days and days and days in our own country. To see mothers begging in the street for clean water and milk for their babies was shocking and it was with a certain numbness that my guy wrote more than one check that week, knowing that it would be too little too late for that infant or that tarp covered wheelchair victim.

I asked my guy where the National Guard was, and he said Iraq, because this country will not tolerate a draft politically. So when people complain about the top 5% income paying too much tax, I say the poor pay too much in blood. Where do the rich think soldiers, and police and firefighters come from? Very seldom do they come from wealthy families.

My guy would agree with JohnW politically. That does not make him wrong. He just approaches the same problem from a different angle. It is too easy to point fingers and much harder to cooperate with people of different philosophies to get things done.

I think it should be said that both these posters want the same thing, and are just seeing the path there differently. Peace. Note
kanigirrrrl
QUOTE (johnw @ April 8, 2008 - 10:48 PM) *
I would hope that it was an honest mistake in your stating that FEMA was formed because of the problems presented by Katrina. FEMA has been around since 1803 in some form or another. Unfortunately, because of 9/11, much of the moneys that would go towards natural disaster relief out of necessity is shared by national security against terrorism. It's a bad world we live in.

I thought I was clear as to the delay in bringing relief and evacuating the Katrina victims...something about first responders being the local and state authorities - In a nutshell, failed levees, failed security measures, lack of food, water and toilet facilities, no busses to transport (they were under water thanks to Nagin) - these are all local failures, not federal - Nagin and Blanco being so relunctant to order a mandatory evacuation until it was too late except to blame the Feds for their own mistakes.

Another problem was that many of the residents in the flood areas refused to leave their homes because they didn't want to leave their pets and for other reasons finally had to be rescued off of the roofs of their homes by the Feds in boats.

As for Michael Chertoff, I'm with you on him. I think he is ill-suited for the job as far as disasters like Katrina are concerned. I also think that his predecessor, Michael Brown, got a bad rap. Brown had no problem with Mississippi or Alabama. A year earlier in 2004, three hurricanes devestated Florida in a six-week period and Brown handled those hurricanes with aplumb. Had Blanco had not denied the Feds access to the Superdome with the food, water and medical supplies, Brown would have gotten a pat on the back. Instead he took the blame when Blanco should have been censored for the incompetent she is. The locals knew who was to blame which is why Blanco did not run for reelection. When ABC interviewed some of the Katrina victims, they got a real surprise when the victims praised Bush and blamed Ray Nagin.

http://www.newsbusters.org/node/1201

I'm sure that Actor has some horror stories to tell as there were many victims who suffered greatly whether it was a loss of their home, business and/or loved ones. As for the failures of this administration there are plenty but I wonder how things might have gone if Gore or Kerry were president. They would be facing the same problems (Don't forget - it was the Dems who gave Bush approval to go into Iraq and it was the Dems who first called for the removal of Saddam and his WMD's starting in 1998) as Bush is facing - illegal immigration, healthcare, a pending social security crisis, an oncoming recession etc.

Walter Reed Hospital - I think you should give Bush some slack as he did spend some time there and apologized to the patients and the staff for the poor conditions and promised to fix them. The President addressed about 100 medical workers and patients telling them that "The system failed you and it failed our troops and we are going to fix it."

Part of the fix involved replacing military staff in charge of the hospital. Bush also took the time to interview patients and staff to pinpoint the problems.

So in the end Bush recognized there were both bureaucratic and administrative problems that need solving.

That last sentence in your post to me -where have I seen that before? Maybe several times before. I believe over on the Yahoo Answers forum in the political section.



FEMA was not a agency that was formed because of the problems of Katrina. FEMA was an agency in the government for a long time as you pointed out. It actually worked about as well as a agency in our Federal Goverment could. That is until George Bush became President. As you yourself point out the Administration drastically reduced the role of FEMA to some vague responding to terrorism initiative and jamming it into Homeland Security. The logic behind it is faulty because of the number of events of terrorism vs the number of natural disasters this country has experienced. We will ALWAYS have hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, earthquakes and fires. They will always overwhelm the state and local officials which is why we HAD a system that allowed the Federal Government to help.
If you believe that it's all a local problem, that's your right. I think you need to look at the timelines and facts, because I see it differently. You had agencies all over the country volunteering time, effort, food, supplies, boats ect and FEMA AND HOMELAND SECURITY rejected them. If those agencies could see that help was needed WHY did the Feds reject that help? If Feds could see that at some point that the locals would NEED help because the disaster was so big why did the Feds reject help? Because the Adminstration wanted to use politics over people's lives just as you're doing now. Believe me when I say if this President wanted to help save those people, he certainly wouldn't let some locals stop him. Nothing has stopped him from having policies on torture, wiretapping without court approval, breaking treaties, on and on.

As for the Florida hurricanes, I find it funny that you think that FEMA gave the same sort of response to the state where the Prez's brother is govenor. Please??

Michael Brown took the blame willingly?? Perhaps you should read the congressional testimony and his own book where he claims he told the Adminstration how bad things were and they did nothing. It's hard to tell who to believe but Michael Brown was no more suited to be the head of FEMA than I am. He was a political appointee, nothing more. As I admitted before Blanco and Nagin are not exactly shining stars in this whole fiasco but I think you drunk too deeply at the Bush Koolaid stand if you think Bush, his administration and FEMA acted responsibly and with the highest regard to saving lives in NOLA.

If Gore or Kerry were in office I seriously doubt they would have destroyed the agency that responds to natural disasters. And yes the Democrats voted to go to war. They believed the lies they were told. Bush can only blame himself for the disaster of his own administration. The wiping out of the budget surplus and run up of the national deficit. The destruction of personal freedoms in the name of security. Gas prices climbing ever higher but not as high as gas companies profits. Again I could go on and on. His first four years we had a republican president, a republican house and senate. Blaming the democrats may be a tried and true method of wiggling out of failures but it just doesn't work this time.

Here's the problem with Walter Reed and the veterans admin system. It's broke and Walter Reed was the tip of the ice berg. You yourself admit it, I as a lesbian with no relatives needing the services of that agency suspected as much. The President, who stood on the flight deck of a carrier in a flight suit, should know. He's commander in chief. He took us to war for what ever reasons. In war men and women suffer injuries. Wouldn't you make sure the system for dealing with those injuries is ready, willing and able to deal with those injuries? President Bush making a visit, speaking a few words after the fact really doesn't make up for the fact that our soldiers were mistreated.

As for my last sentence of my post, I don't need Yahoo to form my own opinion or words as to the disgrace that is the Bush administration. Frankly I'm insulted that you insinuate such a thing.
bJason
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ April 8, 2008 - 02:25 PM) *
Owww I'm impressed.
LOVE that song and them.

I went through a serious Norah Jones phase.
My ex said I was Norah Jonesing. rolleyes.gif

Her voice and songs from that album sent pleasure points to my brain and I was addcited.
She's the real deal to me....Ravvi Shankar's daughter to boot. And a firece beauty.

We'll allow her into our love den...if she's a good girl. biggrin.gif

My first English luv
(I had broken up with the ex and
went and fell in love another
Darrell....but he had two l's...lol)
painted her for me and this was our
song......But now it's..... OUR song!

Sweet baby kisses on your ears tongue.gif

SIGH!!!!!


Norah Jones for evenings by the camp fire on the open road!
Kristlkrost
QUOTE (kanigirrrrl @ April 9, 2008 - 09:27 AM) *
FEMA was not a agency that was formed because of the problems of Katrina. FEMA was an agency in the government for a long time as you pointed out. It actually worked about as well as a agency in our Federal Goverment could. That is until George Bush became President. As you yourself point out the Administration drastically reduced the role of FEMA to some vague responding to terrorism initiative and jamming it into Homeland Security. The logic behind it is faulty because of the number of events of terrorism vs the number of natural disasters this country has experienced. We will ALWAYS have hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, earthquakes and fires. They will always overwhelm the state and local officials which is why we HAD a system that allowed the Federal Government to help.
If you believe that it's all a local problem, that's your right. I think you need to look at the timelines and facts, because I see it differently. You had agencies all over the country volunteering time, effort, food, supplies, boats ect and FEMA AND HOMELAND SECURITY rejected them. If those agencies could see that help was needed WHY did the Feds reject that help? If Feds could see that at some point that the locals would NEED help because the disaster was so big why did the Feds reject help? Because the Adminstration wanted to use politics over people's lives just as you're doing now. Believe me when I say if this President wanted to help save those people, he certainly wouldn't let some locals stop him. Nothing has stopped him from having policies on torture, wiretapping without court approval, breaking treaties, on and on.

As for the Florida hurricanes, I find it funny that you think that FEMA gave the same sort of response to the state where the Prez's brother is govenor. Please??

Michael Brown took the blame willingly?? Perhaps you should read the congressional testimony and his own book where he claims he told the Adminstration how bad things were and they did nothing. It's hard to tell who to believe but Michael Brown was no more suited to be the head of FEMA than I am. He was a political appointee, nothing more. As I admitted before Blanco and Nagin are not exactly shining stars in this whole fiasco but I think you drunk too deeply at the Bush Koolaid stand if you think Bush, his administration and FEMA acted responsibly and with the highest regard to saving lives in NOLA.

If Gore or Kerry were in office I seriously doubt they would have destroyed the agency that responds to natural disasters. And yes the Democrats voted to go to war. They believed the lies they were told. Bush can only blame himself for the disaster of his own administration. The wiping out of the budget surplus and run up of the national deficit. The destruction of personal freedoms in the name of security. Gas prices climbing ever higher but not as high as gas companies profits. Again I could go on and on. His first four years we had a republican president, a republican house and senate. Blaming the democrats may be a tried and true method of wiggling out of failures but it just doesn't work this time.

Here's the problem with Walter Reed and the veterans admin system. It's broke and Walter Reed was the tip of the ice berg. You yourself admit it, I as a lesbian with no relatives needing the services of that agency suspected as much. The President, who stood on the flight deck of a carrier in a flight suit, should know. He's commander in chief. He took us to war for what ever reasons. In war men and women suffer injuries. Wouldn't you make sure the system for dealing with those injuries is ready, willing and able to deal with those injuries? President Bush making a visit, speaking a few words after the fact really doesn't make up for the fact that our soldiers were mistreated.

As for my last sentence of my post, I don't need Yahoo to form my own opinion or words as to the disgrace that is the Bush administration. Frankly I'm insulted that you insinuate such a thing.



This quote comes to mind.


A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James,



I won't say much except..Black and poor..I think that says it all for much of what happened during Katrina.

Afterwards was just the droning of a bureaucracy that wasn't prepared...I hope they have learned their lesson.

My town had three direct hits and
peeps ...most of them rich and white.... all had the same FEMA problems that you speak of.
The rich had their own sources to fund the repairs.
The middle class almost went homeless and
some did...... the poor just did.

And so it goes.
Kristlkrost
QUOTE (bJason @ April 9, 2008 - 09:57 AM) *
Norah Jones for evenings by the camp fire on the open road!



We moondance of course????

I'm in a serious goodbye phase
musically.....It's time for me to let go of a dream I wanted for a long time...And I had that dream for a long time...Meaning we actually were a thing.

And it was dreamy.

But you can't control a ram..Many have tried.

Here's some Steadman luv....We wave goodbye as we fly away..... I nibble your neck as I nibble my bagel......gently!! tongue.gif


He's hot

I made a goodbye c/d for my ex whe he left 3 years ago and this Steadman song and Chris Cornell from Soundgarden (on my sig now) sigh.
(he's seriously handsome and talented) are on it and they both have the same titles.... But my goodbyes are for someone else.

I haven't wanted to let go completely or can't.
But I have no choice.....And maybe then
I can really let someone new in when I do.
But how do you shut your heart off ????

I can't get the video for Crash Poets...but you can download this song on Limewire.
Or I can email it to anyone who wants it.
It is a really good song.
It says it all...They were a happy accident find.

The lead singer is fantastic and he's doon' new stuff too.

http://www.royashen.com/

Crash Poets......Goodbye

I turned left - but you turned right
only one-way roads on this stretch of life
we can't back up or turn back time
out of sight - not out of mind
you made a choice
so wave goodbye
I'm not turning back.

I think about you everyday (goodbye)
On ragged roads to better days (goodbye)
I see your picture in my head (goodbye)
I think I'll miss you
But you'll never see me again

Your letter said - You found your place
Somewhere else, with another face
Written words like razor blades
Slashing all my hope away
I'd bleed to death from paper cuts
But the road is calling me

I think about you everyday (goodbye)
On ragged roads to better days (goodbye)
I see your picture in my head (goodbye)
I think I'll miss you
But you'll never see me again

Now sorry is as sorry does
like tire tracks on hearts we crushed
like dried up flowers in the dust
Do you still miss me?
I'm a tragic highway burning soul
and driving like this takes it's toll
How could I have ever known?
Still my wheels, they keep turning on

I think about you everyday (goodbye)
On ragged roads to better days (goodbye)
I see your picture in my head (goodbye)
I think I'll miss you
But you'll never see me again


Oh it wasn't another person.
That's the only part that is wrong.
It was his person...and I had to walk away blush.gif
Jazzie53
I woke up just in time to see the birthday wishes! SO....

the ballroom is open


the cake is out of this world


the champagne flows


toasts to all



hugs and kisses all around....Jazzie

Now....back to my regularly scheduled snooze! biggrin.gif
Jazzie53
QUOTE (actor59 @ April 8, 2008 - 11:42 PM) *
John trying to be polite here but where are you from? Did you wait out Katrina as I did or did you just sit back and watch CNNN? Did you walk over to the St. Claude Bridge and walk across it and see bodies floating in the flooded water as I did? Were you feeding the 1,000 that were picked up in the lower 9Th by boats and feed them the only thing they got was a rescue and a bottle of water. John do you have pics from your camera during the eye of the storm like I do? Do you even know what a neighborhood that stayed and shared every thing they had is all about? Do you really think during this catastrophe we even thought about oh I hope the Government will bail us out?
NO! All we thought about was my God we need to feed these peeps. we need to hug them. We need to not fall apart.... Do You even Know what it is too see a friend who after this thing see's you and tells you he saw his whole family drown before his eyes?
Do You Know what it is like to drive out of a city and your car or truck is so full that you can not take anyone else and they have to stay behind and fend for their own?
If you have lived in this JohnW then I'll listen to whatever you have to say... if not... STFUP.


Actor....I take what we saw people go through during the SoCal fires and multiply it by about a million. I think that's the closest I can come to experiencing this. We still have people whose homes aren't rebuilt, who are fighting with FEMA and insurance companies all while fending off the con artists contractors. But that is nothing to the things NOLA is still enduring to rebuild. And I think the loss of life and human dignity is unbearable. There are no easy answers.

Much love to you and yours. You guys are always in my prayers.
Love
Jazzie
actor59
QUOTE (notevayas @ April 9, 2008 - 07:33 AM) *

Actor, you have lived through hell and I say this as someone who has no first hand experience with such massive horror. We, in Massachusetts saw many of the scenes you describe from helicopter cameras on the tv news. And we were shocked to the core to think that this madness and suffering especially for the disabled, elderly, children could drag on for days and days and days and days in our own country. To see mothers begging in the street for clean water and milk for their babies was shocking and it was with a certain numbness that my guy wrote more than one check that week, knowing that it would be too little too late for that infant or that tarp covered wheelchair victim.

I asked my guy where the National Guard was, and he said Iraq, because this country will not tolerate a draft politically. So when people complain about the top 5% income paying too much tax, I say the poor pay too much in blood. Where do the rich think soldiers, and police and firefighters come from? Very seldom do they come from wealthy families.

My guy would agree with JohnW politically. That does not make him wrong. He just approaches the same problem from a different angle. It is too easy to point fingers and much harder to cooperate with people of different philosophies to get things done.

I think it should be said that both these posters want the same thing, and are just seeing the path there differently. Peace. Note


Thank You Note I guess I'm still a bit touchy over Katrina....

So my apologies to JohnW if I came across harsh.

The thing about the National Gaurd was they were camped out behind the convention center the day after the storm and when people pleaded with them for food or water they just pointed their guns at them and told them to go back inside. They were waiting for orders to start helping!

As far as first responders most were regular citizens bringing in their bass boats to help .... not government agency's. The only angency that helped was the coast gaurd who because of their comander did it and violated orders from his comanding officer to not help yet and to wait. He basically said F*ck that and started his guys to start rescueing peeps.

This is very close to home to me and I guess I have been bottleing it up for over 2 years.

Now Jen and I have find another place to live because our Land Lord is haveing to sell all of his properties because The Road home failed and will not give him the money he is supposed to get. Ray had to save his whole family and get them off a roof to saftey he stole a boat to do it.. he lost everything and all of his properties were either a complete loss or sufferd damage. They lived next door to us we live in a double shotgun for almost 2 years untill the could rebuild their home in Chalmette. All this at his own expence and what little insurance he got.

Our so called Government supposedly has sent billions to our state but it is not going to the people to help rebuild their lives and homes... it is a shame.
notevayas
QUOTE (actor59 @ April 9, 2008 - 01:00 PM) *
Thank You Note I guess I'm still a bit touchy over Katrina....

So my apologies to JohnW if I came across harsh.

The thing about the National Gaurd was they were camped out behind the convention center the day after the storm and when people pleaded with them for food or water they just pointed their guns at them and told them to go back inside. They were waiting for orders to start helping!

As far as first responders most were regular citizens bringing in their bass boats to help .... not government agency's. The only angency that helped was the coast gaurd who because of their comander did it and violated orders from his comanding officer to not help yet and to wait. He basically said F*ck that and started his guys to start rescueing peeps.

This is very close to home to me and I guess I have been bottleing it up for over 2 years.

Now Jen and I have find another place to live because our Land Lord is haveing to sell all of his properties because The Road home failed and will not give him the money he is supposed to get. Ray had to save his whole family and get them off a roof to saftey he stole a boat to do it.. he lost everything and all of his properties were either a complete loss or sufferd damage. They lived next door to us we live in a double shotgun for almost 2 years untill the could rebuild their home in Chalmette. All this at his own expence and what little insurance he got.

Our so called Government supposedly has sent billions to our state but it is not going to the people to help rebuild their lives and homes... it is a shame.


If a double shotgun is two triple deckers with long halls from front door to back door (unlucky, I know), I grew up in one in a second floor apartment. There were alleys on either side and parking in back, not that we had a car. The house had a stone foundation and granite stairs and was built to last in an area that once was wealthy but became mostly poor with some elderly too stubborn to leave. So when I saw the helicopter footage of families climbing out of windows and huddled in sheets on roofs.. it was painful to watch.

I didn't post because I disagreed with you. I can only imagine the scars that resulted from such an ordeal. I just come from the perspective of knowing that two people can vehemently disagree politically and still essentially be working toward the same goal. Barack Obama and John McCain are each getting a vote from our house. It's not a problem for us.
Some people are so enamored of their political philosophies that they come across as arrogant when they are just trying to be persuasive. And some people are arrogant and bait, and that should be ignored if possible for your own peace of mind.

Many political schemes are great on paper, the test is in how they work in any given circumstance. My disagreement is when people make politics into a religion and blindly spout one philosophy and refuse to see evidence that challenges their preset ideas and listen to other approaches and look for consensus.

Am I my brother's keeper? Didn't Jesus answer that one?

Forgive my rambling.. and Hi Jazzie! Glad to know you're here!
daverocks
QUOTE (Jazzie53 @ April 9, 2008 - 12:38 PM) *
Actor....I take what we saw people go through during the SoCal fires and multiply it by about a million. I think that's the closest I can come to experiencing this. We still have people whose homes aren't rebuilt, who are fighting with FEMA and insurance companies all while fending off the con artists contractors. But that is nothing to the things NOLA is still enduring to rebuild. And I think the loss of life and human dignity is unbearable. There are no easy answers.

Much love to you and yours. You guys are always in my prayers.
Love
Jazzie


Hey Jazzie! how are you doing? I love your peppermint heart and your pic!
Poindexter
actor59
QUOTE (notevayas @ April 9, 2008 - 02:26 PM) *
If a double shotgun is two triple deckers with long halls from front door to back door (unlucky, I know), I grew up in one in a second floor apartment. There were alleys on either side and parking in back, not that we had a car. The house had a stone foundation and granite stairs and was built to last in an area that once was wealthy but became mostly poor with some elderly too stubborn to leave. So when I saw the helicopter footage of families climbing out of windows and huddled in sheets on roofs.. it was painful to watch.

I didn't post because I disagreed with you. I can only imagine the scars that resulted from such an ordeal. I just come from the perspective of knowing that two people can vehemently disagree politically and still essentially be working toward the same goal. Barack Obama and John McCain are each getting a vote from our house. It's not a problem for us.
Some people are so enamored of their political philosophies that they come across as arrogant when they are just trying to be persuasive. And some people are arrogant and bait, and that should be ignored if possible for your own peace of mind.

Many political schemes are great on paper, the test is in how they work in any given circumstance. My disagreement is when people make politics into a religion and blindly spout one philosophy and refuse to see evidence that challenges their preset ideas and listen to other approaches and look for consensus.

Am I my brother's keeper? Didn't Jesus answer that one?

Forgive my rambling.. and Hi Jazzie! Glad to know you're here!


No Doubt Katrina opened alot of eyes it was a major Cluster F*ck.....
The thing is none of us thought were the hell is the government during this going down.... at that moment in time all I saw happenning was a neighborhood coming together and share whatever we could.... even the bars when they learned we were staying gave us keyes and said please grab all the food and feed everyone.... that way we could provide and no one had to break in and loot the place. Basically I was at ground zero during this.

What no one seems to get is there were 1,000's of us that stayed in our neighborhoods and helped all they showed were the poor people at the Dome or the Convention center..... you never got the stories about us in the neighborhoods helping our fellow people. Black ,White, Yellow, Brown it did not matter we all helped it was not a political or race thing it was a people thing.

Where the government comes in is in the after effect and they are not helping really. I think it comes down to our polititions who have a long history of corruption here in LA. That in a nut shell has really hindered the rebuilding now people are loseing their homes and business in ungodly rates because the Feds don't trust our local government.... there is many to blame... alot of fraud etc.There is so much red tape it is almost impossible to get any justice. I truely do not know what will happen here I think we might be on the Right track we have a good Governer now in Jindal... and with Bush out of the White House soon maybe we can start going in the right direction who knows.

But like I said living this politics were the farthest thing in our mind at the time ,it was the after effects where politics screwed the pooch.
notevayas
To Anyone who is interested...
The Step Up And Dance message board is up and functional!

What do you think of the 18 year old? Janelle? It was surprising to me that the youngest dancer won the first challenge. She seems totally dedicated and disciplined yet dances with this innate joy. James and Cody and Nick also especially impressed me with that kind of energy.

Jessica seems a strong dancer yet inexplicably ran off the stage in a panic. She would have been the first to go, but was not on the elimination team. Adrianna, the Massachusetts girl was the first to leave. I thought it might be Oscar but I think his shirtless bop at the club saved him. His scowl at the judging was a turn off. Nicole had to leave because of injury, so now there are only 10 dancers!

This show is exciting and I am glad to hear from posters who know the business that the show has authenticity!

James is a dynamo like Janelle. I want to see them all dance solo.

Bio Photos of Cody, James, Janelle and Nick!
johnw
QUOTE (kanigirrrrl @ April 9, 2008 - 08:27 AM) *
FEMA was not a agency that was formed because of the problems of Katrina. FEMA was an agency in the government for a long time as you pointed out. It actually worked about as well as a agency in our Federal Goverment could. That is until George Bush became President. As you yourself point out the Administration drastically reduced the role of FEMA to some vague responding to terrorism initiative and jamming it into Homeland Security. The logic behind it is faulty because of the number of events of terrorism vs the number of natural disasters this country has experienced. We will ALWAYS have hurricanes, tornadoes, flooding, earthquakes and fires. They will always overwhelm the state and local officials which is why we HAD a system that allowed the Federal Government to help.
If you believe that it's all a local problem, that's your right. I think you need to look at the timelines and facts, because I see it differently. You had agencies all over the country volunteering time, effort, food, supplies, boats ect and FEMA AND HOMELAND SECURITY rejected them. If those agencies could see that help was needed WHY did the Feds reject that help? If Feds could see that at some point that the locals would NEED help because the disaster was so big why did the Feds reject help? Because the Adminstration wanted to use politics over people's lives just as you're doing now. Believe me when I say if this President wanted to help save those people, he certainly wouldn't let some locals stop him. Nothing has stopped him from having policies on torture, wiretapping without court approval, breaking treaties, on and on.

As for the Florida hurricanes, I find it funny that you think that FEMA gave the same sort of response to the state where the Prez's brother is govenor. Please??

Michael Brown took the blame willingly?? Perhaps you should read the congressional testimony and his own book where he claims he told the Adminstration how bad things were and they did nothing. It's hard to tell who to believe but Michael Brown was no more suited to be the head of FEMA than I am. He was a political appointee, nothing more. As I admitted before Blanco and Nagin are not exactly shining stars in this whole fiasco but I think you drunk too deeply at the Bush Koolaid stand if you think Bush, his administration and FEMA acted responsibly and with the highest regard to saving lives in NOLA.

If Gore or Kerry were in office I seriously doubt they would have destroyed the agency that responds to natural disasters. And yes the Democrats voted to go to war. They believed the lies they were told. Bush can only blame himself for the disaster of his own administration. The wiping out of the budget surplus and run up of the national deficit. The destruction of personal freedoms in the name of security. Gas prices climbing ever higher but not as high as gas companies profits. Again I could go on and on. His first four years we had a republican president, a republican house and senate. Blaming the democrats may be a tried and true method of wiggling out of failures but it just doesn't work this time.

Here's the problem with Walter Reed and the veterans admin system. It's broke and Walter Reed was the tip of the ice berg. You yourself admit it, I as a lesbian with no relatives needing the services of that agency suspected as much. The President, who stood on the flight deck of a carrier in a flight suit, should know. He's commander in chief. He took us to war for what ever reasons. In war men and women suffer injuries. Wouldn't you make sure the system for dealing with those injuries is ready, willing and able to deal with those injuries? President Bush making a visit, speaking a few words after the fact really doesn't make up for the fact that our soldiers were mistreated.

As for my last sentence of my post, I don't need Yahoo to form my own opinion or words as to the disgrace that is the Bush administration. Frankly I'm insulted that you insinuate such a thing.


Kanigirrrrl,

Why are you comparing the number of natural disasters to the number of acts of terrorism? We should be grateful that terrorism acts are not seasonal like hurricanes. The way you state your case it sounds like there should be more acts of terrorism to justify the funding that is going towards our national security.

As for the Feds rejecting outside help I wasn't aware of that happening. The only reason I can think of is that it was very chaotic immediately after the levees broke. What with all of the looting and the fact that there was no one in charge - the local police were useless and were either deserting their posts or joining the looters, the last thing that was needed were outsiders coming in to help but no one to give them direction.

The delay you talk about was more about protocol and what was legal as far as Bush and the Feds coming in to help. Supposedly, Nagin(local) and Blanco(state) were the first responders. It was assumed that they would be in charge of the evacuation of those still stranded, and the distribution of food, water, toilet facilities, and medical supplies to those who needed this as in the Superdome and convention center. Now Bush can federalize control over the state national guard on his own order, but to do so without signed authorization from Blanco would be an insult to the governor. Also, bringing in Federal troops to take the place of the local police is against the law and would violate the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. Finally when it became apparent that neither Nagin or Blanco could control or remedy the mess that was New Orleans, Bush bent the rules and sent in the Federal troops to complete the evacuation, provide food, water etc to the remaining victims.

I never said that Brown took the blame "willingly". Perhaps I should have said that the entire New Orleans disaster had fallen on his head, and there was hardly any mention in the major media of Nagin's or Blanco's role. If it wasn't for the internet, no one would ever know what screwups those two are.

With regards to Florida, I would like to think that even if Jeb were not Dubya's brother, that Florida's handling of the three hurricanes would have been the same. Jeb is not Governor Blanco.

Getting away from FEMA and Katrina, what is this about the Democrats believing the "lies" that were told to them by Bush so that we could go into Iraq? If anything, it was the other way around - Bush believing intelligence gathered under the Clinton administration - George Tenet(CIA director) was a holdover from the Clinton administration. Since 1998 Clinton and the rest of the Democrats were crying for the "removal of Saddam and his WMD's but as usual it was all big talk with them and they left it up to Bush to do the dirty work when they gave him approval to invade Iraq. When the war began to drag on and no WMD's were found, the Democrats developed selective memories and claimed Bush lied about the WMD's. What chutzbah!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgaVtVaiJE

Much of what Bush has been criticized/chastised for had been previously done under the Clinton administration. Bill Clinton gets a free pass and George W. Bush gets a low approval rating.

Wiretapping without a warrant: Following the 1993 WTC bombing, Bill Clinton introduced domestic spying without a warrant in the form of an electronic surveilance program named "Echelon". The NY Times, that bastion of Liberalism, called Clinton's spy program a "necessity". When Bush used wiretapping without a warrant following 9/11, the same media and the anti-Bush crowd called it illegal and an invasion of privacy.

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5150

Torture: Much has been made of the use of waterboarding by the CIA and the claim that it is torture and violates the Geneva Convention. To be honest, I have no problem with waterboarding if waterboarding one evil individual will save American lives, perhaps millions of American lives if the terrorists get their hands on nukes, which could happen if it hasn't already happened. We know waterboarding in some cases works, as when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, was captured, waterboarding made him give up a number of his associates. Mohammed lasted less than half a minute - probably didn't know how to swim.

Bush was not the first President to use waterboarding. The rendition program where suspects were taken out of the country to be interogated by a foreign government was an invention of Bill Clinton. No one ever claimed that Bill Clinton isn't smart. Take it outside the country and no one ever hears that the Clinton administration sanctioned torture and I am not talking about waterboarding. How does electrodes attached to your genitals strike you?

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wi...ordinary_r.html

Kanigirrrrl,

Let's move on. President Bush is practically a lame duck if he isn't already. He is hardly in the news anymore. When it comes to politics I'd rather discuss Hillary, Obama, and John McCain.
TaterTot
QUOTE (johnw @ April 9, 2008 - 07:02 PM) *
what is this about the Democrats believing the "lies" that were told to them by Bush so that we could go into Iraq? If anything, it was the other way around - Bush believing intelligence gathered under the Clinton administration - George Tenet(CIA director) was a holdover from the Clinton administration. Since 1998 Clinton and the rest of the Democrats were crying for the "removal of Saddam and his WMD's but as usual it was all big talk with them and they left it up to Bush to do the dirty work when they gave him approval to invade Iraq. When the war began to drag on and no WMD's were found, the Democrats developed selective memories and claimed Bush lied about the WMD's. What chutzbah!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgaVtVaiJE

Much of what Bush has been criticized/chastised for had been previously done under the Clinton administration. Bill Clinton gets a free pass and George W. Bush gets a low approval rating.

Wiretapping without a warrant: Following the 1993 WTC bombing, Bill Clinton introduced domestic spying without a warrant in the form of an electronic surveilance program named "Echelon". The NY Times, that bastion of Liberalism, called Clinton's spy program a "necessity". When Bush used wiretapping without a warrant following 9/11, the same media and the anti-Bush crowd called it illegal and an invasion of privacy.

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5150

Torture: Much has been made of the use of waterboarding by the CIA and the claim that it is torture and violates the Geneva Convention. To be honest, I have no problem with waterboarding if waterboarding one evil individual will save American lives, perhaps millions of American lives if the terrorists get their hands on nukes, which could happen if it hasn't already happened. We know waterboarding in some cases works, as when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, was captured, waterboarding made him give up a number of his associates. Mohammed lasted less than half a minute - probably didn't know how to swim.

Bush was not the first President to use waterboarding. The rendition program where suspects were taken out of the country to be interogated by a foreign government was an invention of Bill Clinton. No one ever claimed that Bill Clinton isn't smart. Take it outside the country and no one ever hears that the Clinton administration sanctioned torture and I am not talking about waterboarding. How does electrodes attached to your genitals strike you?

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wi...ordinary_r.html


Good post...I agree.
Jazzie53
QUOTE (daverocks @ April 9, 2008 - 02:27 PM) *
Hey Jazzie! how are you doing? I love your peppermint heart and your pic!


Good to be here, but I'll be snoozing again shortly!

How am I doing??? ROFLMAO.....Would you believe, I have a sinus infection that got into my salivary gland (no lie) and yesterday the swelling got so severe that I ended up at urgent care doing a great Popeye imitation....all chin and jaw LOL!

What else is going on in Jazzieland? I am up to my eyeballs in homework, but I love every minute of it. (I am writing my little heart out, and going totally nuts with the digital photos. I may actually be putting a book of photos and poetry together before the end of the year....hint hint *wink*)

TC....meeeerrrrr...can't seem to get into it this time....don't know why, but I don't feel any investment in the cheftestants this season.

But....the porch is still open for birthday cake and champagne and anything else we come up with. Much love to all,

Jazzie
johnw
QUOTE (actor59 @ April 8, 2008 - 11:42 PM) *
John trying to be polite here but where are you from? Did you wait out Katrina as I did or did you just sit back and watch CNNN? Did you walk over to the St. Claude Bridge and walk across it and see bodies floating in the flooded water as I did? Were you feeding the 1,000 that were picked up in the lower 9Th by boats and feed them the only thing they got was a rescue and a bottle of water. John do you have pics from your camera during the eye of the storm like I do? Do you even know what a neighborhood that stayed and shared every thing they had is all about? Do you really think during this catastrophe we even thought about oh I hope the Government will bail us out?
NO! All we thought about was my God we need to feed these peeps. we need to hug them. We need to not fall apart.... Do You even Know what it is too see a friend who after this thing see's you and tells you he saw his whole family drown before his eyes?
Do You Know what it is like to drive out of a city and your car or truck is so full that you can not take anyone else and they have to stay behind and fend for their own?
If you have lived in this JohnW then I'll listen to whatever you have to say... if not... STFUP.


Actor,
No need to assume that I have no feelings for the victims of Katrina. You ask where am I from. I am from the state of New York so of course I
wouldn't experience the hurricanes that plague our gulf states every year. But then you weren't present when the twin towers fell on 9/11. Although I live outside NY City, I have close relatives that do live and work in Manhattan. When I first became aware of the attack on the WTC my first thought was of my daughter who at the time was working in mid-town Manhattan. I was greatly relieved when I found out that her biggest problem was having to walk back to her apartment in Queens, a two hour walk as all public transportation was shut down. Then there was my cousin, the daughter of my mother's younger sister. Her apartment is only a few blocks from the WTC site but close enough so that when the towers fell, pieces of the tower were raining down on her balcony. Her husband was one of the onlookers that was caught in that dust cloud. Closer to home, my daughter's high school principal lost his son on 9/11. His son worked on one of the upper floors. The principal resigned from his job the following year.
Jazzie53
QUOTE (notevayas @ April 9, 2008 - 02:26 PM) *
If a double shotgun is two triple deckers with long halls from front door to back door (unlucky, I know), I grew up in one in a second floor apartment. There were alleys on either side and parking in back, not that we had a car. The house had a stone foundation and granite stairs and was built to last in an area that once was wealthy but became mostly poor with some elderly too stubborn to leave. So when I saw the helicopter footage of families climbing out of windows and huddled in sheets on roofs.. it was painful to watch.

I didn't post because I disagreed with you. I can only imagine the scars that resulted from such an ordeal. I just come from the perspective of knowing that two people can vehemently disagree politically and still essentially be working toward the same goal. Barack Obama and John McCain are each getting a vote from our house. It's not a problem for us.
Some people are so enamored of their political philosophies that they come across as arrogant when they are just trying to be persuasive. And some people are arrogant and bait, and that should be ignored if possible for your own peace of mind.

Many political schemes are great on paper, the test is in how they work in any given circumstance. My disagreement is when people make politics into a religion and blindly spout one philosophy and refuse to see evidence that challenges their preset ideas and listen to other approaches and look for consensus.

Am I my brother's keeper? Didn't Jesus answer that one?

Forgive my rambling.. and Hi Jazzie! Glad to know you're here!




NoTe....You have some great points....and I appreciate that you never seem to be beating up anyone around here over their politics. I bolded and italicized the section of what you've written that deeply touched me. I don't know that we'd be on the same side of the fence all that time (and wouldn't that be boring!) but I certainly see how you'd respect my point of view as well as your own.

And....yes, I've been around, just not posting much lately. The porch, as always is open. Glad to see you, catch you later, I have more homework to do than I want to think about!
*smile*
Jazzie
kanigirrrrl
QUOTE (johnw @ April 9, 2008 - 07:02 PM) *
Kanigirrrrl,

Why are you comparing the number of natural disasters to the number of acts of terrorism? We should be grateful that terrorism acts are not seasonal like hurricanes. The way you state your case it sounds like there should be more acts of terrorism to justify the funding that is going towards our national security.

As for the Feds rejecting outside help I wasn't aware of that happening. The only reason I can think of is that it was very chaotic immediately after the levees broke. What with all of the looting and the fact that there was no one in charge - the local police were useless and were either deserting their posts or joining the looters, the last thing that was needed were outsiders coming in to help but no one to give them direction.

The delay you talk about was more about protocol and what was legal as far as Bush and the Feds coming in to help. Supposedly, Nagin(local) and Blanco(state) were the first responders. It was assumed that they would be in charge of the evacuation of those still stranded, and the distribution of food, water, toilet facilities, and medical supplies to those who needed this as in the Superdome and convention center. Now Bush can federalize control over the state national guard on his own order, but to do so without signed authorization from Blanco would be an insult to the governor. Also, bringing in Federal troops to take the place of the local police is against the law and would violate the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. Finally when it became apparent that neither Nagin or Blanco could control or remedy the mess that was New Orleans, Bush bent the rules and sent in the Federal troops to complete the evacuation, provide food, water etc to the remaining victims.

I never said that Brown took the blame "willingly". Perhaps I should have said that the entire New Orleans disaster had fallen on his head, and there was hardly any mention in the major media of Nagin's or Blanco's role. If it wasn't for the internet, no one would ever know what screwups those two are.

With regards to Florida, I would like to think that even if Jeb were not Dubya's brother, that Florida's handling of the three hurricanes would have been the same. Jeb is not Governor Blanco.

Getting away from FEMA and Katrina, what is this about the Democrats believing the "lies" that were told to them by Bush so that we could go into Iraq? If anything, it was the other way around - Bush believing intelligence gathered under the Clinton administration - George Tenet(CIA director) was a holdover from the Clinton administration. Since 1998 Clinton and the rest of the Democrats were crying for the "removal of Saddam and his WMD's but as usual it was all big talk with them and they left it up to Bush to do the dirty work when they gave him approval to invade Iraq. When the war began to drag on and no WMD's were found, the Democrats developed selective memories and claimed Bush lied about the WMD's. What chutzbah!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgaVtVaiJE

Much of what Bush has been criticized/chastised for had been previously done under the Clinton administration. Bill Clinton gets a free pass and George W. Bush gets a low approval rating.

Wiretapping without a warrant: Following the 1993 WTC bombing, Bill Clinton introduced domestic spying without a warrant in the form of an electronic surveilance program named "Echelon". The NY Times, that bastion of Liberalism, called Clinton's spy program a "necessity". When Bush used wiretapping without a warrant following 9/11, the same media and the anti-Bush crowd called it illegal and an invasion of privacy.

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5150

Torture: Much has been made of the use of waterboarding by the CIA and the claim that it is torture and violates the Geneva Convention. To be honest, I have no problem with waterboarding if waterboarding one evil individual will save American lives, perhaps millions of American lives if the terrorists get their hands on nukes, which could happen if it hasn't already happened. We know waterboarding in some cases works, as when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, was captured, waterboarding made him give up a number of his associates. Mohammed lasted less than half a minute - probably didn't know how to swim.

Bush was not the first President to use waterboarding. The rendition program where suspects were taken out of the country to be interogated by a foreign government was an invention of Bill Clinton. No one ever claimed that Bill Clinton isn't smart. Take it outside the country and no one ever hears that the Clinton administration sanctioned torture and I am not talking about waterboarding. How does electrodes attached to your genitals strike you?

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wi...ordinary_r.html

Kanigirrrrl,

Let's move on. President Bush is practically a lame duck if he isn't already. He is hardly in the news anymore. When it comes to politics I'd rather discuss Hillary, Obama, and John McCain.



Look I started a whole long huge post about timelines and blame and politics but what's the point. You see Bush and FEMA blameless. I don't. Neither one of those positions is going to change. You think torture, waterboarding is ok despite the Geneva Convention. Great for you. Whether or not Clinton's administration condoned water boarding makes no difference to me. It's torture. Don't do it.

As for talking about Hillary, Obama or McCain, no thanks. I'll wait until the election is over.
Jazzie53
QUOTE (johnw @ April 9, 2008 - 07:43 PM) *
Actor,
No need to assume that I have no feelings for the victims of Katrina. You ask where am I from. I am from the state of New York so of course I
wouldn't experience the hurricanes that plague our gulf states every year. But then you weren't present when the twin towers fell on 9/11. Although I live outside NY City, I have close relatives that do live and work in Manhattan. When I first became aware of the attack on the WTC my first thought was of my daughter who at the time was working in mid-town Manhattan. I was greatly relieved when I found out that her biggest problem was having to walk back to her apartment in Queens, a two hour walk as all public transportation was shut down. Then there was my cousin, the daughter of my mother's younger sister. Her apartment is only a few blocks from the WTC site but close enough so that when the towers fell, pieces of the tower were raining down on her balcony. Her husband was one of the onlookers that was caught in that dust cloud. Closer to home, my daughter's high school principal lost his son on 9/11. His son worked on one of the upper floors. The principal resigned from his job the following year.


John....just gonna use this to make an observation. Sometimes it so very difficult to comment on tragedies. We all have our own....some are life (and world) shattering, while others slip away to mount up into earth shattering. I do believe, however, that it is less important to dwell on the failures at the time of the disaster, but look at what improvement (if any) have happened to those involved since then. It's like we see here in SoCal. People are still trying to put lives together after the fires. In NYC as well as NOLA, there are families that will struggle literally for lifetimes to come to terms with the losses. One type of tragedy does not diminish another. I think the point that Actor makes so darned well is this....it is the reaching out from person to person during the tragedy that defines us as individuals, but it is the response (or lack of it) during and after our tragedies that remain as a perception of the government agencies....good or bad or indifferent.

Now....somebody want the soapbox back? I need a nap and I have a TON of homework from today's class!
Jazzie
actor59
QUOTE (johnw @ April 9, 2008 - 07:43 PM) *
Actor,
No need to assume that I have no feelings for the victims of Katrina. You ask where am I from. I am from the state of New York so of course I
wouldn't experience the hurricanes that plague our gulf states every year. But then you weren't present when the twin towers fell on 9/11. Although I live outside NY City, I have close relatives that do live and work in Manhattan. When I first became aware of the attack on the WTC my first thought was of my daughter who at the time was working in mid-town Manhattan. I was greatly relieved when I found out that her biggest problem was having to walk back to her apartment in Queens, a two hour walk as all public transportation was shut down. Then there was my cousin, the daughter of my mother's younger sister. Her apartment is only a few blocks from the WTC site but close enough so that when the towers fell, pieces of the tower were raining down on her balcony. Her husband was one of the onlookers that was caught in that dust cloud. Closer to home, my daughter's high school principal lost his son on 9/11. His son worked on one of the upper floors. The principal resigned from his job the following year.


Thank You JohnW now I understand where you are coming from..... I did not think about your previous post only about what I took out of context.. My Bad. Please except my apologies....

Both of these tragadies were terrible to live through.... sometimes I just have a problem when I think someone who did not expierence it on their own spouts ditribe.... I know you were not doing that.. I would like to personally thank Note for makeing me realize that with his post.... I just jumped without truely realizing what you were saying. Again I'm sorry.
blush.gif
Maludi
QUOTE (johnw @ April 9, 2008 - 07:02 PM) *
Kanigirrrrl,

Why are you comparing the number of natural disasters to the number of acts of terrorism? We should be grateful that terrorism acts are not seasonal like hurricanes. The way you state your case it sounds like there should be more acts of terrorism to justify the funding that is going towards our national security.

As for the Feds rejecting outside help I wasn't aware of that happening. The only reason I can think of is that it was very chaotic immediately after the levees broke. What with all of the looting and the fact that there was no one in charge - the local police were useless and were either deserting their posts or joining the looters, the last thing that was needed were outsiders coming in to help but no one to give them direction.

The delay you talk about was more about protocol and what was legal as far as Bush and the Feds coming in to help. Supposedly, Nagin(local) and Blanco(state) were the first responders. It was assumed that they would be in charge of the evacuation of those still stranded, and the distribution of food, water, toilet facilities, and medical supplies to those who needed this as in the Superdome and convention center. Now Bush can federalize control over the state national guard on his own order, but to do so without signed authorization from Blanco would be an insult to the governor. Also, bringing in Federal troops to take the place of the local police is against the law and would violate the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. Finally when it became apparent that neither Nagin or Blanco could control or remedy the mess that was New Orleans, Bush bent the rules and sent in the Federal troops to complete the evacuation, provide food, water etc to the remaining victims.

I never said that Brown took the blame "willingly". Perhaps I should have said that the entire New Orleans disaster had fallen on his head, and there was hardly any mention in the major media of Nagin's or Blanco's role. If it wasn't for the internet, no one would ever know what screwups those two are.

With regards to Florida, I would like to think that even if Jeb were not Dubya's brother, that Florida's handling of the three hurricanes would have been the same. Jeb is not Governor Blanco.

Getting away from FEMA and Katrina, what is this about the Democrats believing the "lies" that were told to them by Bush so that we could go into Iraq? If anything, it was the other way around - Bush believing intelligence gathered under the Clinton administration - George Tenet(CIA director) was a holdover from the Clinton administration. Since 1998 Clinton and the rest of the Democrats were crying for the "removal of Saddam and his WMD's but as usual it was all big talk with them and they left it up to Bush to do the dirty work when they gave him approval to invade Iraq. When the war began to drag on and no WMD's were found, the Democrats developed selective memories and claimed Bush lied about the WMD's. What chutzbah!

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNgaVtVaiJE

Much of what Bush has been criticized/chastised for had been previously done under the Clinton administration. Bill Clinton gets a free pass and George W. Bush gets a low approval rating.

Wiretapping without a warrant: Following the 1993 WTC bombing, Bill Clinton introduced domestic spying without a warrant in the form of an electronic surveilance program named "Echelon". The NY Times, that bastion of Liberalism, called Clinton's spy program a "necessity". When Bush used wiretapping without a warrant following 9/11, the same media and the anti-Bush crowd called it illegal and an invasion of privacy.

http://americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5150

Torture: Much has been made of the use of waterboarding by the CIA and the claim that it is torture and violates the Geneva Convention. To be honest, I have no problem with waterboarding if waterboarding one evil individual will save American lives, perhaps millions of American lives if the terrorists get their hands on nukes, which could happen if it hasn't already happened. We know waterboarding in some cases works, as when Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of 9/11, was captured, waterboarding made him give up a number of his associates. Mohammed lasted less than half a minute - probably didn't know how to swim.

Bush was not the first President to use waterboarding. The rendition program where suspects were taken out of the country to be interogated by a foreign government was an invention of Bill Clinton. No one ever claimed that Bill Clinton isn't smart. Take it outside the country and no one ever hears that the Clinton administration sanctioned torture and I am not talking about waterboarding. How does electrodes attached to your genitals strike you?

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wi...ordinary_r.html

Kanigirrrrl,

Let's move on. President Bush is practically a lame duck if he isn't already. He is hardly in the news anymore. When it comes to politics I'd rather discuss Hillary, Obama, and John McCain.


Johnw...
I wonder where were you when all of this was going on?
I was evacuating my family of five from New Orleans to... an undestined place... we wound up in Lake Charles, La. only because we ran out of gas and a woderful friend of mine said come to my place! And as sure as ____ didn't give a rat's bottom who was the president at the time!

A trip that normally takes about three hours to travel by car, it took us nine hours, because it was an exodus of people, and guess what? We didn't care who the president was at the time.
In a crammed car, with no air conditioned, tires that were about to explode, engine that was about to give any second, a sick dog, wondering if I had brought all my belongings that concerned anyone, besides my driver's lisence, my son got extremely sick, the fainting happened about 3 to 4 times that the paramedics met us at a Burguer King just to make sure he can still make it in my hot car until I got to my friend's house...and no, I didn't see the president anywhere around us to make sure we were okay!

I spent three nights at my friend's house and all the time wondering if my house wasn't as flooded as I saw the devastation on tv, and yes, I did look around to see if the president was around to help us, I'm not going to lie to you. But honestly, I didn't care who it was.

Katrina just made us closer as a family. I'm thankful to God that I was strong enough to make it through. I've gone thru a lot of hurdles, but nothing like this. This is just one of the stories you're going to hear. Don't ever talk in the same sentence of the government and a massive natural dissaster, because you are going to get a lot of controversial opinions, especially if you have never experienced it first hand. I have a lot more to share with you but, I'll now step off my soap box and give someone else the mike.

I'll never forget it. Never.
Maludi
QUOTE (Jazzie53 @ April 9, 2008 - 12:38 PM) *
Actor....I take what we saw people go through during the SoCal fires and multiply it by about a million. I think that's the closest I can come to experiencing this. We still have people whose homes aren't rebuilt, who are fighting with FEMA and insurance companies all while fending off the con artists contractors. But that is nothing to the things NOLA is still enduring to rebuild. And I think the loss of life and human dignity is unbearable. There are no easy answers.

Much love to you and yours. You guys are always in my prayers.
Love
Jazzie

...and to add salt to the wound: and those who got their "Road Home" money to help repair their houses (FROM THE GOVERNMENT mind you) have to pay taxes on that or give it back!!
ITSJUSTMEAOD
QUOTE (notevayas @ April 9, 2008 - 06:34 PM) *
To Anyone who is interested...
The Step Up And Dance message board is up and functional!

What do you think of the 18 year old? Janelle? It was surprising to me that the youngest dancer won the first challenge. She seems totally dedicated and disciplined yet dances with this innate joy. James and Cody and Nick also especially impressed me with that kind of energy.

Jessica seems a strong dancer yet inexplicably ran off the stage in a panic. She would have been the first to go, but was not on the elimination team. Adrianna, the Massachusetts girl was the first to leave. I thought it might be Oscar but I think his shirtless bop at the club saved him. His scowl at the judging was a turn off. Nicole had to leave because of injury, so now there are only 10 dancers!

This show is exciting and I am glad to hear from posters who know the business that the show has authenticity!

James is a dynamo like Janelle. I want to see them all dance solo.

Bio Photos of Cody, James, Janelle and Nick!

laugh.gif

GUESS YOU A TAD BIT EXCITED OVER THIS SHOW EH NOTE laugh.gif

TAKE CARE OVER THERE

ALOHA

HAVE FUN
ITSJUSTMEAOD
QUOTE (notevayas @ April 7, 2008 - 11:10 AM) *
I agree that Jessica should be eliminated next! Who would want to be partners with a dancer who runs off the stage in the middle of a performance. The frustrating part is that she is a strong dancer who is held back by her insecurities. When she was pushed back on stage she did rebound well. Another dancer who should go is Oscar. He was not the dancer the judges told to "butch up" as I mistakenly posted earlier, but he deserved the same comment. Also he does not take criticism well; he was shown haughty and scowling at the judges if the editing is fair. Janelle and James and Cody are my three faves so far, but it's early.

And how fun was it to have Scary Spice guest judge! We had Posh Spice guest judge on Project Runway and do an excellent job; I think Scary chose just as well! The Spice Girls are perfect to skate to.. Tell me what you want, what you Really Really want... ha! The blonde, Janelle, even looks like the next generation of Spice Girl.. a beautiful girl with serious physical and mental muscle and talent and a true love of dance! She is the best female dancer by far! But some male dancers have more formal training and experience so it will be a tough contest for her. I see Janelle in the final three.. cool.gif

laugh.gif

THIS POST ANSWERS MY QUESTION IN THE

DANCE BOARD laugh.gif

SITTING ON THE FENCE ABOUT OSCAR

AS HE ONLY SHOWED HIS CLASSICAL SKILL

AGREE WITH THE JUDGES ON THIER CRITIQUE

THOUGH

NOT ONLY DOE HE HAVE TO "BUTCH UP" BUT

"STEP UP" TO THE COMPETITIONS

SAD ABOUT JESSICA

SHE DOES HAVE SOME SKILL BUT LACKS THE

EXPERIENCE THE OTHERS HAVE

I GUESS SHE CAN PAT HERSELF ON THE BACK

FOR MAKING THE CUT .................

SHRUG

MAYBE IN A FEW YEARS ........... BUT NOT NOW

RIGHT NOW COMPARED TO TOP CHEF

IT HAS STOLEN MY INTEREST

THE JUDGING SEEMS BETTER

THE VISUAL SATISFACTION

AND LACK OF UNECESSARY DRAMA

THOUGH IT DOES LOOK TO HAVE SOME IN FUTURE EPS

biggrin.gif

TAKE CARE OVER THERE

ALOHA

HAVE FUN
JayCiuM
Deleted by poster! Wrong string! Sorry! Back to Episode 5; reposted on #4!!
ITSJUSTMEAOD
OK LOTS OF TALK OF POLITICS LATELY wacko.gif

HERES A LITTLE DITTY FOR YA ALL

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

HAVE TO WONDER IF THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS

FOR LENNON'S ASSASSINATION

BUT JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT

IF THERE WAS A REVOLUTION

THE UPSIDE

POWER OF THE COUNTRY RETURNS LITERALLY

TO THE PEOPLE................


THE DOWNSIDE

COULD THE PEOPLE HANDLE THAT POWER....

WOULD OTHER COUNTRIES RESPECT THE OUTCOME.........

WHO WOULD REALLY END UP RUNNING THE COUNTRY.......... ???

NOW FOR DESSERT

EVER WONDER WHY THE GOVERNMENT KEEPS TRYING

TO DISARM THE PUBLIC ? wink.gif tongue.gif

TAKE CARE OVER THERE

ALOHA

HAVE FUN
JayCiuM
Wow! What was that with 2 guys in the tub! "CHEAP PORNO?" I'd pay! lol!!
notevayas
QUOTE (ITSJUSTMEAOD @ April 9, 2008 - 09:44 PM) *
laugh.gif

THIS POST ANSWERS MY QUESTION IN THE

DANCE BOARD laugh.gif

SITTING ON THE FENCE ABOUT OSCAR

AS HE ONLY SHOWED HIS CLASSICAL SKILL

AGREE WITH THE JUDGES ON THIER CRITIQUE

THOUGH

NOT ONLY DOES HE HAVE TO "BUTCH UP" BUT

"STEP UP" TO THE COMPETITIONS

SAD ABOUT JESSICA

SHE DOES HAVE SOME SKILL BUT LACKS THE

EXPERIENCE THE OTHERS HAVE

I GUESS SHE CAN PAT HERSELF ON THE BACK

FOR MAKING THE CUT .................

SHRUG

MAYBE IN A FEW YEARS ........... BUT NOT NOW

RIGHT NOW COMPARED TO TOP CHEF

IT HAS STOLEN MY INTEREST

THE JUDGING SEEMS BETTER

THE VISUAL SATISFACTION

AND LACK OF UNECESSARY DRAMA

THOUGH IT DOES LOOK TO HAVE SOME IN FUTURE EPS

biggrin.gif

TAKE CARE OVER THERE

ALOHA

HAVE FUN


I made a mistake Justme.. I think it was Miguel that the judges told to "butch it up". But in my opinion that comment was just as valid for Oscar.
But Miguel got his say at the judges by replying, "Did I dance like a flag?"
Some nervous laughter ensued, but the answer was "yes".
Oscar was just told that he was not standing out. He needs to break out of his comfort zone of ballet. He had my sympathy for being short like me until he was shown pouting. Bad attitude.

Miguel (sassy) and Oscar (pouty)
ITSJUSTMEAOD
QUOTE (notevayas @ April 9, 2008 - 10:22 PM) *
I made a mistake Justme.. I think it was Miguel that the judges told to "butch it up". But in my opinion that comment was just as valid for Oscar.
But Miguel got his say at the judges by replying, "Did I dance like a flag?"
Some nervous laughter ensued, but the answer was "yes".
Oscar was just told that he was not standing out. He needs to break out of his comfort zone of ballet. He had my sympathy for being short like me until he was shown pouting. Bad attitude.

Miguel (sassy) and Oscar (pouty)
<a href="http://" target="_blank"></a>


laugh.gif

KNEW YOU MADE A MISTAKE NOTE laugh.gif

BUT HEY

AIN'T MY STYLE TO BE CORRECTIN ANYONE LOL wink.gif

BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT LOVIN THE ANSWER GIVEN BACK TO THE JUDGES laugh.gif

THAT WAS PRICELESS

I LIKE WHEN SOMEONE CAN LAUGH AT HIMSELF

AND ALLOW OTHERS TO LAUGH ALONG WITH HIM biggrin.gif

WON'T REITTERATE WHAT HE SAID USING THE "F" WORD

AS THE "COMMUNITY" ( A COMPLIMENT TO WOOPIE )

HAS A DEF DISPLEASURE IN IT'S USE laugh.gif wink.gif

TAKE CARE OVER THERE

ALOHA

HAVE FUN
TCPhil
QUOTE (ITSJUSTMEAOD @ April 10, 2008 - 12:10 AM) *
laugh.gif

KNEW YOU MADE A MISTAKE NOTE laugh.gif

BUT HEY

AIN'T MY STYLE TO BE CORRECTIN ANYONE LOL wink.gif

BUT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT LOVIN THE ANSWER GIVEN BACK TO THE JUDGES laugh.gif

THAT WAS PRICELESS

I LIKE WHEN SOMEONE CAN LAUGH AT HIMSELF

AND ALLOW OTHERS TO LAUGH ALONG WITH HIM biggrin.gif

WON'T REITTERATE WHAT HE SAID USING THE "F" WORD

AS THE "COMMUNITY" ( A COMPLIMENT TO WOOPIE )

HAS A DEF DISPLEASURE IN IT'S USE laugh.gif wink.gif

TAKE CARE OVER THERE

ALOHA

HAVE FUN


Sorry but Miguel, is like um Bu++ ugly...
Jazzie53
For all the gastro....um, gastoni.....hmmm......molecular gastrolo....meeerrrr!

Cause I'm warped and I know you'll get a laugh (I hope!) over this one.

http://www.twolumps.net/
Poindexter
johnw
QUOTE (kanigirrrrl @ April 9, 2008 - 08:06 PM) *
Look I started a whole long huge post about timelines and blame and politics but what's the point. You see Bush and FEMA blameless. I don't. Neither one of those positions is going to change. You think torture, waterboarding is ok despite the Geneva Convention. Great for you. Whether or not Clinton's administration condoned water boarding makes no difference to me. It's torture. Don't do it.

As for talking about Hillary, Obama or McCain, no thanks. I'll wait until the election is over.


You are right about Bush and FEMA. Katrina happened almost three years ago and Bush has been in office for nearly eight years. By now both of us have formed opinions of the latter and not much is going to change.

No talking about Hillary, Obama, or McCain? The drama between Hillary and Obama is better than the drama we witnessed in the Stew Room at the end of last night's show.
daverocks
QUOTE (ITSJUSTMEAOD @ April 9, 2008 - 09:56 PM) *
OK LOTS OF TALK OF POLITICS LATELY wacko.gif

HERES A LITTLE DITTY FOR YA ALL

You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright

HAVE TO WONDER IF THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS

FOR LENNON'S ASSASSINATION

BUT JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT

IF THERE WAS A REVOLUTION

THE UPSIDE

POWER OF THE COUNTRY RETURNS LITERALLY

TO THE PEOPLE................


THE DOWNSIDE

COULD THE PEOPLE HANDLE THAT POWER....

WOULD OTHER COUNTRIES RESPECT THE OUTCOME.........

WHO WOULD REALLY END UP RUNNING THE COUNTRY.......... ???

NOW FOR DESSERT

EVER WONDER WHY THE GOVERNMENT KEEPS TRYING

TO DISARM THE PUBLIC ? wink.gif tongue.gif

TAKE CARE OVER THERE

ALOHA

HAVE FUN


oh man, that was great. thanks for it!
Poindexter
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ April 10, 2008 - 12:26 PM) *
Take that you tease. tongue.gif





Very cool pic! Thanks! wub.gif
Poindexter
tongue.gif

Kristlkrost
QUOTE (Poindexter @ April 10, 2008 - 03:36 PM) *
tongue.gif




Wheeeeeeeeeeee tongue.gif



Kristlkrost
I like to play biggrin.gif

My English luv always called me a saucy mare.....sob!

Why it godda' be that way???

SisterZip73
QUOTE (actor59 @ April 9, 2008 - 08:27 PM) *
Thank You JohnW now I understand where you are coming from..... I did not think about your previous post only about what I took out of context.. My Bad. Please except my apologies....

Both of these tragadies were terrible to live through.... sometimes I just have a problem when I think someone who did not expierence it on their own spouts ditribe.... I know you were not doing that.. I would like to personally thank Note for makeing me realize that with his post.... I just jumped without truely realizing what you were saying. Again I'm sorry.
blush.gif


From the real cheap seats, it always confused me why people blamed FEMA for the lack of initial response. It was always my understanding that the locals (city,county,state) should be ready for the first wave and FEMA would come in as soon as possible. Florida is able to recover quickly because they are used to getting hurricanes and they have protocols in place and then FEMA comes in, it can, and most often does, work. I was astonded at the lack of response (that we were able to see) from the city & state govs. School buses that sat because no one wanted to take the hit if they got destroyed and a governor who sat and complained that there was no one helping. FEMA, Congress, and the President don't get off scott free, either. There is enough blame to go around. Because of budget cuts, shifting the agency to Homeland Security, and various other short sighted ideas, helped create the chaos of the following weeks. The Corps of Engineers deserve a lot of blame for not fixing what they were supposed to and the whole thing may not have happened.

Actor, you will be getting more water. The rains here in mid-Missouri, Arkansas, Nebraska are headed your way. Along with the snow from up north. The Corps has decided to release more water into the Missouri River from SD, WY, and elsewhere to ease their flooding, while making ours (and by extension, yours) worse. Keep those businesses happy at the beginning of the MO River, but screw the little people who live at the end.
chucole
Since this is OT thread and I just rewatched Troy last night. I think we should vote on whether all men (maybe not all men) should dress like Pitt, Bana & Bloom did in that movie. OMFG!!!!!!!!
daverocks
Hey Poindexter, Have you ever seen Blood Freak? click the link for a bigger picture. notice the beak and claw around her neck. oh so funny.
http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2605161984/tt0132888

Plot synopsis
A biker comes upon a girl with a flat tire and offers her a ride home. He winds up at a drug party with the girl's sister, then follows her to a turkey farm owned by her father, a mad scientist. The father turns the biker into a giant turkey monster who goes after drug dealers.
daverocks
QUOTE (chucole @ April 10, 2008 - 04:16 PM) *
Since this is OT thread and I just rewatched Troy last night. I think we should vote on whether all men (maybe not all men) should dress like Pitt, Bana & Bloom did in that movie. OMFG!!!!!!!!


my vote is yes yes yes and yes again wink.gif

I thought Bana looked the best though. oh my, that was like, the best part of that movie.
Kristlkrost
Just a starry share ....for Psh who loves when I tawk the science wub.gif






Astronomy Picture of the Day


Discover the cosmos! Each day a different image or photograph of our fascinating universe is featured, along with a brief explanation written by a professional astronomer.

2008 April 6
Wisps Surrounding the Horsehead Nebula
Credit & Copyright: Star Shadows Remote Observatory
Kristlkrost
Just because I am "udderly" bored and because Maludiluv can't copy and paste and she sent it to me and because I think we need
to "nip" this in the bud before it becomes a rage here 'cause I mean really.

And because of my new mantra
"Who cares I'll be dead soon"... and because who knows what those wild and crazy Japanese kids will come up with next...I'll do it!!!






Another one of those Japanese crazy inventions. Nipple scarfs? Buy one to annoy your mom hehe.
chucole
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ April 10, 2008 - 04:52 PM) *
Just because I am "udderly" bored and because Maludiluv can't copy and paste and she sent it to me and because I think we need
to "nip" this in the bud before it becomes a rage here 'cause I mean really.

And because of my new mantra
"Who cares I'll be dead soon"... and because who knows what those wild and crazy Japanese kids will come up with next...I'll do it!!!






Another one of those Japanese crazy inventions. Nipple scarfs? Buy one to annoy your mom hehe.


And to think that people make a sh*tload of money coming up with crap like that. Man, I'm in the wrong business. Perhaps I'm just not clever or depraved enough. Working on depraved. wink.gif
Superannualted
HERE'S A TIDBIT

FOR ALL YOU

PROJECT RUNWAY FANS

In a telephone interview with an executive of the Lifetime Network the New York Post reports the following:


"'It will look exactly the same,' vowed Susanne Daniels, president of entertainment for all of Lifetime's cable networks. She got on the phone from Los Angeles yesterday to allay fears that "Runway" would not be recognizable to its legions of fans once the show makes its headline-making switch to the women's-oriented cable channel next fall."


Here is a link to the complete article:


http://www.nypost.com/seven/04092008/tv/re..._job_105742.htm


In closing, the New York Post speculates "With Bravo trying to produce a fifth season of 'Runway' to air some time this summer and Lifetime attempting to produce its first season of the series in time for a November premiere, 'Runway' gridlock is expected to set in this summer in and around Parsons School of Design in the garment district as both productions cross paths."





Kristlkrost
QUOTE (chucole @ April 10, 2008 - 06:27 PM) *
And to think that people make a sh*tload of money coming up with crap like that. Man, I'm in the wrong business. Perhaps I'm just not clever or depraved enough. Working on depraved. wink.gif


Working on????

Girl..... we ALL know it's always the
quiet ones. tongue.gif
chucole
QUOTE (Kristlkrost @ April 10, 2008 - 05:42 PM) *
Working on????

Girl..... we ALL know it's always the
quiet ones. tongue.gif

damn, i just blew my own cover.
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