And most importantly give his beef to me! Almost raw please!!!

Ah, there's the spice rub, I don't think she was sent home unfairly either. She's not Top Chef material. I don't think she's as good as her partner. I don't know if Jen is Top Chef material either since have not seen so little of her stuff. But my beef comes from past judging decisions. Tre was sent home for Rest. Wars for so many things yet Spike keeps going while Manual gets auffed? Richard has so many problems, lied at judges table and gets to stay? Tre's got to be pissed. So what is the judging criteria? The dish that tastes the worst? According to whom? If the comment cards were the final tipping point, lets see the results. Were the comment cards in play for the Block Party challenge? How about the Zoo Challenge? Did the pooshrooms taste worse than the black olive blini? If they are going to play the Comment Card then they better back it up with some actual results because just sounds like lazy judging to me.

Because he discounts the reality of producing a show that features two constant hosts, a lot of editing for dramatic purposes, casting for effect, and wants a cut 'n dried scoring system that's virtually impossible to fulfill. He wants it to be "fair", which flies in the face of just about most competition shows which thrive on the personalities of even the judges. If we could count points like baskets or goals, it might be different. If they didn't have guest judges, it might be easier to be "consistent".

It's folks like me who never forget that it's a TV show and don't get pissed off when it acts like a TV show. I can understand the crux of his problem with the show though and that's the protestations that "it's all about the food" and that it's all about that day. Both Tom and Padma are delusional about that. At least Ramsey doesn't pretend to have any "fairness" about how the cheftestants go home on his show - the only thing is who he's going to hire. The rest is just windowdressing.

So are you saying that Richard did indeed get a pass? A well deserved pass but a pass none the less?

Dang, I forgot the important Face Time Theory of Auffability.

Like "Marcel."

(Sorry, sorry ... it was right there, and I just couldn't resist!)

I had the same experiences waiting on "the christians". I always said that if they only have to give God 10% I would probably not be able to do any better off of them.

Tele, I think the choice of salmon might have been driven by the issue of 3 guys finishing, plating, and getting 80 dishes out to service all at the same time. With it's high fat content and "pleasing" texture, the choice of salmon is a bit like last year... when Hung got compliments for using the very forgiving Chilean Sea Bass for his airline in-flight meal - knowing any fish would have to withstand some punishment and neglect and abuse.

Even so... CLICHE! Done to death! Great lakes whitefish has a similar fat content and texture, did no one at least go looking at any elegant whitefish recipes they might crib for a challenge requiring fish? There's still no Chicago showing up in any of these challenges or in the chefs' responses.

And there is the only part I disagree with you
on Tele....It is all about the food to them.
The judges...The food that day and it has been proven over and over. Only to them.
Not Bravo ....To Bravo it is only about ratings.
I believe that......I think they take it VERY seriously..VERY!!!

And like B&B always says....in rare exceptions like at the end of the show MAYBE as I haven't seen that once.. and when there are ties
for worst....other things come into play.

I asked you once and no answer from you or WAJ lol Could you do a show like this and be totally impartial if peeps lives and livelihoods were at stake as they are???

A show like this could make or break you.
Isn't it possible as a judge in any court and in so many other situations in life that maybe it is possible to be totally impartial????

It has been known to happen

Well, Tre got sent home much later in the competition and it seems to me that the standards get tougher and tougher as the list gets whittled down. Give Spike time. Unless he's sandbagging, his clock is ticking. Hats won't save him, and he'll probably have to eat them before long.

As to the dish tasting the worst according to whom, Gail was pretty specific about the dish being clearly the worst.

See, I think what we've all been missing is that a carpaccio without anything to give it taste (whether it be side components or some highly flavored oil) is just very thin raw meat, which is pretty disgusting to a lot of people. And rosemary was an unlucky choice to be the only standout herb. It was probably like biting into a pine cone. Rosemary is perfect for creating a "earthy flavor" but only if it's in conjunction with things like thyme, basil, etc and in proper proportion.

Good Explaination. I'll buy it.
It just seemed to me that Richard Managed to get more scales in his food than Miguel did in season 1. Since Miguel hadn't had his fish scaled and was forced to do it himself wouldn't you think that since you say Richard's was, that it makes Richard's screw up more of a blunder?

I'm pretty sure you can release the Warren Commision. Anybody wonder what happened to Harold's craptastic Prize?

But Tiff's Dog Biscuits bring up another Judging aspect. So many say it's about the flavors of the dish being the final criteria. It's not. For that challenge Tiff's "concept" saved her from being in the bottom three. Her flavors kept her from being in the top three. The Sex Shop Madam loved her concept but said the cookies tasted awful. There are so many facets of how the judges judge that there's no way the flavors of the dish determine the final results every time in either the auffing of a contestant or awarding a win.

Tom says at the table at the affair... earth was
my least favorite....There you go!!
That is all he wrote.

I thought he was SOOOO lucky that Andrew and Mark were good team mates and silently backed up Tricky D!ck's Sous Vide bag of tripe he was selling to the judges. lol.

My opinions of them went way up.

I didn't see the episode with Miguel, so I really don't know.

I do know that FiddyDale ordered his fish correctly. We all saw him sniff the fish. And stand at the counter, make and keep eye contact with the clerk, and say loudly, slowly, and clearly: "I want it scaled... cleaned... head on." Or however one wants it. You do that at a well-run fishmongers' but you really really need to do that with supermarket clerks who only work there part time anyway and hate it when they get pulled from CheckOut and made to work the seafood counter.

So if Miguel didn't order his fish properly, didn't have it scaled in the store... that's rather spectacular. If he scaled the fish properly himself, later, that's a good save. If he didn't know how to scale fish and someone else on his team had to do it... He should have been stuffed with herbs and poached.

I'm going to guess and say yes but in much more Ideal situations. I think if he handn't he would have chosen something else. He seems like a "go with what I know" type of guy in the kitchen.

Uh you weren't exactly successful in telling me what I thought before.

What makes you think that you now know what I'm forgetting?


Be a good red shirt and leave the mind melding to the Vulcan's.

He may already have been....I Miguel!!

Miguel is absolutely one of my favorite Top Chef Contestants. Top five. I think he should be a Top Chef condo fixture. I want him back every season as honorary competitor.

Howie is not like Dale. Howie had his differences with Joey which got resolved. Dale is like someone who had too much to drink and is ready to attack anyone who is unfortunate enough to be in his proximity.

I believe that it factored into the decision, yes. I believe that he was lucky as well. Even though they steadfastly refused to admit it, I'm pretty sure that the main judges look beyond the day (both forewards and backwards). And I'll bet that this is part of the dialogue at the final Judge's Table. Part of what makes it stretch out for hours.

I would have to agree with that.

Tom said earth was his least favorite at the affair??
So buh wha??....I don't get it!!

What more does anyone need???

Oh the comment cards too....lol

Thank you, Casper.

Actually it was Lee Anne who did the scaling after she discovered Miguel's blunder. I think in her haste to get back on schedule, some scales were overlooked.

I did mention in a previous post that I thought that Richard, rather than inspect all 80 servings due to time restraints, took a sample which seemed satisfactory enough that he felt confident that the fish could be sent out to the diners. He appeared to be genuinely surprised when told about the scales at the judges table. I don't think he was "lying".

I did not think Lisa was being a biatch just to be a biatch. I understand her frustration with Dale not wanting to do Asian, it's what she likes to cook, the guest judge is Ming Tsai and dude you cook Asian too. It seemed to me that they were going to go ahead with Dale's carrpacio until they they got to the meat counter and found out the Earth team was doing one as well. When she walked away saying she didn't like what was going on I didn't blame her--they were filling a cart with groceries and still didn't have a dish planned. When they were in the kitchen and Nikki's stuff was in Lisa's station she had every right to be vocal about it they had a huge kitchen. The problem with the bacon was more frustration - it wasn't cooking as she thought it would, but she regrouped and pulled it off.

Oh those people are horrid! One is given the awesome duty of deciding who should be auf'd, and what do they do, pick someone they don't like rather than get rid of the "dead weight!" So many of these people don't have a clue how to run a kitchen! What gives them the idea that will change after Ramsey puts them thru their paces? The senior personnel isn't any better than the young ones! At least they try! That one dude who couldn't remember the menu should have been escorted right out of there; 1st thing! I only breeze by every once in a while! I get enough of the screaming on the other show, Kitchen Nightmares on BBC! lol!! He knows what he's doing; that is obvious! THE YELLING IS TOO MUCH FOR ME THOUGH! lol!!

But scales were found during prep, right? He might not have been lying but he wasn't unaware (unless I'm wrong about the prep comment).

Great point and it served her well....but she still acted kinda' loud and b*tchy in the kitchen.

These chefs are used to being in charge they say.
Heads and egos clashing alright.

I admire her and think she may just win.
I was in awe of the way she described that
bacon making.... As soon as she started I was starting to get prickles lol
Like whoa...... she knows what she's doing.

Good Point. And with judgements being so subjective all it takes is one or two people to swing or sway the vote in a fashion that falls in line with what production might find beneficial. And to do that all you have to do is present a plausible arguement and editing can do the rest. Tom could have said Mark did nothing but the one element he didn't like. He could have said Andrew's caviar was old hat now and didn't work. He could have said that Spike obviously didn't fight hard enough for what might have been a great idea. He could have said Tricky D!ck blew it with the cooking appearence of the salmon and the scales. Lots of ways to skin a cat there.
I think Tricky stayed because of prior performance and because Tom and the Producers don't need or want an asshat convention in the finals. Stephanie and Mark are the only other contestants that don't seem either fatally flawed or suffering from a camera induced mental disorder right now. And neither one of them has been lights out either.

I also think there is a general hierachy in competative reality shows in which contestants are eliminated from a production standpoint. I use "chef" because this is a cooking show but you can insert any adjective that applies to the skillset featured on the show in question.

1. The average chef without a telegenic persona:
These people contribute nothing to the show. They are just bodies who take up space. No drama from food, no drama from interaction and you have to really work to get them in the final edit.

2. The bad chef without a telegenic persona:
Almost as bad as the average chef but at least the on the plate train wrecks give you something. Good for one or two episodes.

3. The bad chef with a very telegenic persona:
Reality TV SuperNova. Gold to production but they have the shelf life of cottage cheese in a sauna. Can kill a show's cred if they hang around for too long.

4. The good chef without a telegenic persona:
Glorified Cast filler. Gives the show the cred it needs but not much else. Only adds real value to the show from a production standpoint when they fail.

5. The average chef with a very telegenic persona:
The bread and butter of a season. They can be heros, villians, clowns, anything and because they have decent skills they can make it far into the season but are prone to slip ups and figerpointing that make for good TV. Contestants like these are why shows get renewed.

6. The good chef with a very telegenic persona:
The contenders. These are the people with the best chance to win because they have the skills to advance and the personality to excuse a bump in the road or two.

Every point you make another could be made..Ilan...Sam???
Come on??
Casey ???Hung???uh huh!!!

Go read Bourdain again....If it were up to
your theories Zoie would still be here and Marcel would have won....Next!

yeah, I figured you didn't need stickin up forf, but I just couldn't help it. I was in a funky mood last night. Plus I agree with you a lot, so....you know.

See I thought it was the other way around!

I thought season 2 was like Real World "line cook"

I thought season 3 was a great bunch of talented people who got along really well.

This is for Dale-you are an arrogant little punk. I might be able to understand being drunk and stressed at the time, but you were cocky and proud of your actions in the fly by interview. I'm sure when you were grabbing your mangina and getting all ugly and confrontational you didn't think about the fact that you still have to live with these people. You still have to compete against and work with these people. And if you are talented enough and lucky enough to make it to the end, you may very well have to depend on some of them to help you win. Be careful --- what goes around comes around.

I think integrity and character pretty much go out the window when you are on a reality show! ha-ha. except harold of course

and yes, I'm talking about the judges too. Sign on to do a reality show, make some money, get your name out there to a wider audience, but it's entertainment first and foremost and if you think the producers aren't going to put their two cents in, well, we will have to agree to disagree. but the disclaimer says it all. And I trust what they have to say legally before I trust what comes out of Chef Tom's mouth. I mean, I'm not saying he is an awful terrible person in cahoots with them and lying to all of us while rubbing his hands together. but I also don't think he (or any of them) are perfect little integrity angels who never play by Bravo's rules.

Trust me, having your mind in the gutter plays no part in statistics. TRUST me on that.

I'd be glad to help. I hope the move is gong well!

I feel scales on fish are a greater culinary sin then a dish that is seasoned lightly. I take it that the Beef Carpaccio with a Wild Mushroom had some seasoning but not enough but one can not have fish that is lightly de-scaled … scales are unacceptable! I agree that Team Water had better conceptualized their dish vs. Earth but how can sending seafood out with numerous scales be more OK then a little missing salt.

I get the feeling that you all are enamored of Richard and have already given him the Top Chef title. With that said this brings up the issue if this competition is fair if people selected to compete have varied levels of experience. I think you need a baseline of experience that all contestants must meet for your show to live up to its nom de plum "Top Chef"

Sam was a good chef who was pretty to look at and not above getting into the drama. Ilan was good at what he did IMO was so good for ratings that he was pushed into the finale for a good vs. evil showdown.

Casey, good chef no drama. Until she had a misstep like when she lost it in the finals.

Hung. good chef who was begging to be cast as the villian.

Marcel winning or losing has nothing to do with it. Getting him into the finale was the key. He cooked very well in part one according to the judges so it wasn't an issue. If your watching the final episode the producers have done their job. Why Marcel lost is another story alltogeather.

Nope you're right. Andrew said he found scales, Mark says "what you found scales?". They both tell Richard they found scales. He says it will be alright. Andrew says he found scales on more than one piece of fish and hopefully removed them which means that more fish than just what Ming and Padma got ORIGINALLY had scales. How many pieces had scales is undetermined. The bigger question is how did Andrew catch the scales on the few pieces of fish he handled and Richard miss ALL the scales on the entire load of fish.
By the way I love when the chefs have no control over how the judges get their dish. Makes it much harder to prep the hero plate when you don't know where it's going.

I give UP!!!!!!!!

You said over and over and over that Tom would allow Marcel to win..You said it and you screamed it.
You also said that the only reason that those lebanese women were allowed on the show was for drama..ummmmmmm
I would buy any of your theories if they made any
sense or ever came true.....Next!!!!!


EDIT:

I do believe they put the couple there for potential drama...but sometimes things just don't work out they way we plan....... do they???

uh.....

If it were that simple then deliberation wouldn't take so long. course, maybe it didn't in this instance. i think a lot of things play into their decision. It's never black and white I think is the thing. And so of course, their are going to be disagreements from the fans, and I think Bravo likes that and wants it. It's part of the drama, just like showing bonus stew room madness.

Rady, by the point this week's episode was filmed, it must have occurred to Lil' FiddyDale that he's showing nothing.

He hasn't been winning Quickfires, except for his display of knife work and design talent for Daniel Boulud (veggie sashimi). He isn't even recognized as a "favorite" in the Quickfires.

On Eliminations, he's been on the losing team twice now (Block Party, Zoo. There's absolutely no sign that he's been a good "contributing" member, and his contributions through his own dishes haven't won him special praise or attention. There's been no footage of him questionning the Corn Dogs or tasting the Pasta Salad; and he made a bad pooshroom worse and never tasted it.

His success on teams has come each time due to the efforts and ingenuity of others. Richard *owned* that dish for Willy Wonka and Dale shared in that only by riding in the back seat the entire time. And his team won Four Elements despite him, not because of him.

Dale has an exceptional CV, he's worked at great restaurants and with great chefs, and it would be easy for someone like him to expect he's going to excel on Top Chef. *Maybe* even imagine himself as Hung ReLoaded.

Problem is, the competition doesn't measure how well you do what you do. It measures how well you do in ridiculous and unrealistic challenges that don't really equate with Real Chef Life.

Give such a man enough disappointment and alcohol and...

I got to the boards late and was REALLY surprised that more people aren't astounded over Richard's survival. I haven't read Daddy-Bear's blog yet but I can't see any way to justify (within the "established parameters" for Judge's Table) this week's decision. To me, it was a question of Bland v. Wrong. Bland may be "cooking 101" but Wrong goes even deeper. I might give another chance to a rest. which served something bland but I would send back scaly fish and most likely never return to the place which allowed it leave the kitchen! Don't get me wrong - I have almost been looking forward to Zoi's parting and I think Richard might be one of the better ones left. IMHO however, the salmon should have been fatal. Richard even said it himself! Seriously, scaly fish got to slide??!!! WTF?

you know what I find interesting about the salt thing....well it is somewhat subjective. Though these are trained chef's and if they all agree the seasoning isn't appropriate, I understand that. And Zoi did herself no favors by saying she is not light handed with seasoning. But, people do have different tastes. For example, Gail really doesn't seem to be much of a fan of rosemary. She has made comments against rosemary several times. Whereas, Zoi may try to stay away from salt and focus more on herbs and other seasonings. I mean, some people really don't want any salt either for health reasons or b/c they like to enjoy the food for it's true flavor (this comes into raw food preparation a lot). So to me it seems scales would be the bigger issue. but that is dave logic. I'm obviously not a chef.

So, as I said in my previous post, and here is where I agree with KK, if the diners said the earth dish was their least favorite and the panel declared earth team as loser, then obviously they had to pick someone from earth team to go home. I also, personally beleive that if they didn't explicitly use the comment cards to choose a loser then they didn't want to send Richard home b/c he has been consistently better than Zoi.

And if Harold and the rest of them would simply give up the charade that previous performance has no impact on show to show judging I'd be fine with it.

But clearly that isn't the case.

And I think that "they" refers to the judges too in this case. They can't have the only people with any seemingly legitimate cooking skills eliminated this soon. This cast has too few of them to begin with.

KK I do remember tom saying that if it were up to him alone he would have sent the whole pack home for what they did to Marcel and give it to him. I remember that. i can't quote where from, I think it was his blog, but he did say it. that technically would "allow" Marcel to win. I don't see how there could be debate about that one.

Well he obviously impressed the casting staff. I bet when he told them he was the "Black GR" they handed him a first class ticket and a chefs coat lol.

Oh Richard was very lucky! I'm not a big fish eater, but if some mushy piece of fish was set before me, I'd be more than a little upset! Salmon is bland to begin with and putting it thru a water bath (souvie style) was unforgivable! He really needed to crisp up that skin and season it well for me to like it! Souvie is the height of laziness as far as I'm concerned! Chefs love to talk about how it seals in all the juices and flavor! Nyah, they're just being lazy F#&ks! It's supposed to be "idiot proof" as Ramsey loves to coin! So for all you pun fanatics, "2 W®ongs made a W®ight" and he survived! Must be the Marcel factor! He's an innovative chef and he's being "pushed" along!

I understand. I just think, in a case like that deliberation wouldn't take long, it'd be fairly cut and dry. but perhaps this time, deliberation didn't take that long. who knows.

I do think it would be great to have the judges do the same kind of blind pallette tests the cheftestants do and see how it works out for them. they never would though without it being rigged, you know why? What if Chef Tom didn't do that well? How embarassing would that be? I don't know that I would go so far as to say they are the best pallates in the world, maybe the best pallates bravo can get! I'm not discounting their skills by any means, they are obviously first class chefs, well except Ted. But mostly it's the guest judges I think that are the finest of the bunch. And they don't make the decision, they get to announce the decision, with the exception of the quickfire and very specific examples. But they have made it clear in many episodes that the guest judge alone does not pick either the winner of the EC or the loser, but gets to announce it.