Patti,
Do you know why people are picking on Wendy? Just watch the PR marathon and you'll see why. Wendy is not the "innocent underdog" she proclaims to be. There's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Read her diary pages too. You don't have to change your mind, but after reading those, you will.
Full Version: The Designers
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How do you add those emoticons into posts?
lk
When you reply or quote a post, you'll see this at the top:
"Fill out the form below to post a message on the forum. HTML is disabled. UBBCode is enabled, so you may use UBBCode in your posts."
The "UBBCode in your posts" part will be underlined. You can right click on that link once and it will open a short menu. In that menu click "Open in new window" and a new window will open showing you how to put the emotes in. I only use a few like:
(when you use them, don't include spaces between the symbols)
: ) - is an automatic happy face
: tongue : - gives you the tongue sticking out
: frown : - is sad
: mad : - is angry
Have fun - night night!
Wendy is crazy enough to have drawn the line through that picture. I knew she was crazy when she was all "I am sorry if I did anything to upset you all" and blah blah,,it's like she can dish it out but can't take it, so to speak.
I saw her website and her fashion is weak at best.
I saw her website and her fashion is weak at best.
Honey nobody has a reason to be jealous of Wendy. She used certain tactics because even she knows she has no talent.
Look at her website. She is a dress maker at best.
Look at her website. She is a dress maker at best.
Austin really did look a little weird when they were talking about the picture. Kevin always looks weird...ha ha ha ....
>> I'm fair in that I don't tell them to shut up like they >>try to tell everyone else.
Do they really? I think all I heard was a couple of people arguing about what constitutes stalking (regarding the emails to Wendy).
>>At least it's for legitimate reasons and not to defend >>someone who would pat you on the back one minute and push >>you down the stairs the next.
So what you're saying here is that the Wendy bashers are more entitled than the Wendy defenders. Don't make sense to me. But anyway, I'm not gonna get into this one with you, lest I start sounding as preachy as Kara Saun :-)
Do they really? I think all I heard was a couple of people arguing about what constitutes stalking (regarding the emails to Wendy).
>>At least it's for legitimate reasons and not to defend >>someone who would pat you on the back one minute and push >>you down the stairs the next.
So what you're saying here is that the Wendy bashers are more entitled than the Wendy defenders. Don't make sense to me. But anyway, I'm not gonna get into this one with you, lest I start sounding as preachy as Kara Saun :-)
OK we won't bash W anymore. Instead we can all imagine how funny it would've been to see MORGAN (who was the obvious culprit with the picture) doing a whole voodoo/blaire witch thing with the little girls photos and burned the face off or something? I'm surprised that no one presented that possibility. As crazy as Morganza was, she should be happy the [expletive deleted] didn't break her kneecaps!
And we all could've sat back at our computers and laughed. Like W said herself, "I like to watch people squirm, I could stay there forever".
And we all could've sat back at our computers and laughed. Like W said herself, "I like to watch people squirm, I could stay there forever".
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I was surprised they did that to Morgan as well. Bravo sort of hit below the belt.
Regardless of her behavior that was bad taste of of Bravo to do that to her, especially if she was not there to defend herself. And that whole thing was put together strictly to make fun of her.
Oh I don't have any problems with the Wendy bashing. After watching the Envy episode for the first time two days ago, I just decided she wasn't worth defending (my favorites are Jay and Nora). I just think that everybody's opinions are of the same value. If Wendy fans want to say that her designs are impeccable, that has the same value as those who say Wendy's designs are despicable.
I wonder how exactly Morgan would have acted if she had shown. She has a lot of nerve asking for a written promise that the producers won't make her look bad. Say, Vanessa could have used one of those, no?
I wonder how exactly Morgan would have acted if she had shown. She has a lot of nerve asking for a written promise that the producers won't make her look bad. Say, Vanessa could have used one of those, no?
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Do you know why everyone is bashing Wendy is because she came on the show totally prepared to win which is all fine and good but she could have done it without all the two facedness, the lies and the blatant back stabbing ...
When ever did Wendy lie? Austin and Kevin both were impotent leaders and no one is denying this.
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I wasn't surprised that many of the designers turned on Wendy. Most of these designers, while having superior talent, have the maturity level of a spiteful junior high preteen turning on the judging grown up, all lacking independent thought, embracing the pack mentality with amazing efficiency. Their youthful smugness is tempered only by their lack of personal depth, education, and life experience. Despite their verbal disdain for her, the other designers are amazingly threatened and jealous of Wendy. She provided a convenient outlet for their anxiety and self doubt. Little do the kids know, their lack of character, inarticulately expressed, will follow them to their next job interview, which is really what this show is.
(originally posted by Rob45)
Actually Rob, I would welcome the majority of the designers to sit across from me for a job interview, and would probably hire them, and not for thier marquis value. With two glaring exceptions (Vanessa and you know who), I see ten people who had dedication, passion, stamina(They all said it-it's a physical strain to be in the cameras 24/7), and drive. Vanessa proved herself disloyal to the hand that fed her (Perhaps rightfully so, but not very smart to do on national television), and as for the other, well, I think it's all been said in the past 430 pages.
These individuals competed admirably, worked under incredibly stressful conditions, and hey, were able to produce some pretty good clothes most of the time, if not all; definitely a better job than most of us posting these messages, I would assume. Furthermore, this was not an uneducated group. Most,if not all, graduated college or fashion schools with assorted degrees, and I frankly found them to be quite articulate considering they had television cameras in their faces, recording their every move (Okay, with the exception of who drew on the designer's picture)....
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Do you know why everyone is bashing Wendy is because she came on the show totally prepared to win which is all fine and good but she could have done it without all the two facedness, the lies and the blatant back stabbing ...
When ever did Wendy lie? Austin and Kevin both were impotent leaders and no one is denying this.
Strangedaze, (great name, btw), you're too smart for this. Remember when she lied to Kevin in the form of fake friendship, only to backstab him later? Remember in Episode 2 when Wendy says she tries to get close to people then use it against them, but Vanessa saw through it? Wendy may be honest to the public about her intentions, but she LIED to her fellow contestants. Somehow, everyone overlooks this little tidbit of Wendy manipulation. See, you guys were played too.
when did Wendy Lie???? they showcased her lying! Check out the Bride's challenge where she is lying through her teeth about Austin's design to the model!
OK, maybe Vanessa was a bit hostle at the reunion show. But, she has been my favorite since episode one and she is still my favorite! She has always been real and real people have bad days. Bullshi*ters fake having good days even when they're miserable. Like Daniel, he could tell you how spiritually uplifting and monumentally fantastic his last bowel movement was! I think Vanessa puts it right out there- good or bad - there's no sugarcoating. I mean, she was fabulous the whole time she was on the show and she deserves to be judged by her whole time, not one conversation. Or maybe we shouldn't be JUDGING her or anyone on the show. Anyway, Vanessa is absolutley the most fantastic designer on the show- not only based on what we saw on the show, but based on her elaborate portfolio on her website (www.vanessariley.com) too. So she walked out! to me that shows that she above the abuse. It's really sad what Reality TV has come to. The producers or the viewers, for that matter, don't care about the people on the shows. It's just entertainment at someone else's expense. Vanessa is already an established designer why should she put up with abuse? Vanessa, you rock baby!
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I wasn't surprised that many of the designers turned on Wendy. Most of these designers, while having superior talent, have the maturity level of a spiteful junior high preteen turning on the judging grown up, all lacking independent thought, embracing the pack mentality with amazing efficiency. Their youthful smugness is tempered only by their lack of personal depth, education, and life experience. Despite their verbal disdain for her, the other designers are amazingly threatened and jealous of Wendy. She provided a convenient outlet for their anxiety and self doubt. Little do the kids know, their lack of character, inarticulately expressed, will follow them to their next job interview, which is really what this show is.
(originally posted by Rob45)
--- Amen!
Up until the last couple of shows, not only did I think Kara Saun would win, but that I would be happy for her to do so. No longer. If she does one thing even better than designing great clothes, it's pronouncing judgment on Wendy, and gossiping behind her back. Kara, since when are you entitled to judge whether Wendy has a soul?
Jay has always been a contender. I *loved* what he did with the bodice that was a take-off on the building, and I am intrigued by his skirt on the last challenge, although I wouldn't likely wear it. (Color me practical for all kinds of reasons for the last and next several years.) And if Jay wins, I will be glad for him, even though he's no fan of Wendy's. At least he has the sense - and decency - to keep his mouth largely shut on the subject.
Austin, I would have picked to be in the final three - but I have to agree with Tim. Wrong dress for the challenge. Gorgeous, but wrong, wrong, wrong. I have found it somewhat incongruous that after taking Wendy's criticism of his leadership so personally and sniping at her for days afterwards that he was as gracious as he was to her at the end. But, overall, I loved his work (not Miss Bo Peep) - not only is he a very interesting designer, but after seeing his work for weeks, I began to have an appreciation of the beautiful possibilities in couture - something that had previously escaped me. Austin is young, incredibly talented. He'll make it, even if he has to wait until next year.
Wendy has always been a "long shot" from the get-go. I don't believe the conspiracy theorists who insist that the producers were telling the judges who *would* remain. (I also believe in Santa Claus, by the way. I choose to. On purpose.) I think she is also the oldest of all of them (I can't remember Kevin's age, I think he was the only other one close in age). And people can write what they want - she designs for people like me - generally mainstream, living in a smaller urban area. And I like at least some of what she did. (Not the candy dress, however.)
The joke on people who want to use Wendy's words to condemn her is this - people's vision/description of themselves is largely incomplete and filled with blind spots. Large ones, usually. Has she been in it to win? Absolutely. Does she see it as a matter of professional survival? Yes, if she has any sense at all. (Witness the Vanessa impact.) And, oh by the way, once a woman is staring 40 in the face, professional survival equates very quickly with emotional survival in a way that is utterly and completely incomprehensible to the younger women. Only three years or so separate Kara Saun and Wendy Pepper - but I assure you that those three years make an incredible difference in how a woman sees the world, and how she attempts to deal with it. If what she has been doing is successful and largely satisfactory (as it seems to have been for Kara Saun), 40 brings more assurance. If she is still struggling to make her mark, or to play a significantly different game professionally (as I suspect is true of Wendy), 40 beomes the challenge of one's life--living life authentically and up to one's full potential has more meaning than ever before. Emotionally, 40 is the beginning of the make-it-or-die decade. It's tough. She may very well have intended to be a complete strategist 24/7, but the kind of pressure cooker environment on the show would have made that all but impossible.
The other thing that people forget - although Wendy was smart enough to recognize it - is that being the one who barely avoided elimination week after week after week is incredibly stressful. It's like failing, except the report card reads "D-" in all the subjects instead of "F." It's enough to have a person waiting, barely breathing, for days/weeks for the other shoe to fall. Only it doesn't. Sometimes there's good news (Banana Republic / Nancy O'Dell). Usually not. And then when the other designers start piling on - not confronting her directly, but attacking in packs, or gossiping behind her back for hours, nearly the whole process becomes an exercise in misery. And the cliche of "misery loves company" is, at the very least, a truism - so when the rest of the gang had a chance to find out how much fun it was to have their work ripped to shreds on the runway, well, gosh, golly, gee whiz, guys, now you have a small peek into the world of Wendy Pepper. And if they've been back-stabbing along the way, well, gosh, let me see if I can summon up even a crocodile tear..... Rats. I can't. Darn. Oh, well. <veg> So yeah, I can't blame her in the least for wanting Kara, Jay, and Austin to share the "joy" even if it happened only once.
Do I see her winning this one? Not unless Kara implodes and Jay suffers a design drought. And even though I think Kara's character would benefit from slamming into a professional brick wall at top speed just once, I can't wish it on her. And I like Jay too much to wish him a dry spell. I mean, how can you dislike a guy who moans, "I hate Wendy" - and then apologizes for saying it? Honest, utterly real, and disarming because he shows signs of having some empathy with Wendy, even if he'd rather not.
After watching the last show (the "let's have them all back and stage a confrontation" episode) I was horribly disappointed - in both the show and the designers other than Wendy. Rude??? Oh. My. Word. Let's all *not* applaud when Wendy enters, even though it is merely an act of politeness. Let us all pile on and tell Wendy she's wrong, untalented, and merely the beneficiary of someone else's mistakes and/or the judges' naivete. Let us, by all means, show in every way possible how much we dislike her AND let's pile on with "everybody hates you" and "no one has anything good to say about you". Factually that's inaccurate - and it's cruel to say that. Not just rude. Cruel. Fashion may be a [expletive deleted] - but nearly every designer on that stage adopted the part as their own and provoked my disgust.
Wendy took that bashing like she'd taken everything else dished out all season - with her game face on. If she wasn't asked a direct question, she generally kept quiet. Those, folks, are survival tactics, pure and simple. And they were still necessary among that group. So, write what you will, I simply don't see Wendy as a villain. Whether or not she wins Fashion Week, she has still done what few others on that show did - she got to the end. She also did what many in that group did *not* do - she won two challenges. And I would bet that she learned a lot. Call her what you will, I call her a winner, in spite of herself.
i absolutetly adore austin and my loins burns for dear sweet jay but i cant explain how frustrated i am that Wendy made it to the top 3, i watched every single episode and the frustration just snowballed. i know i am not the only 1. And ofcourse kara is going to win.
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"Did you read any reviews of her collection? Have you seen her website? Plenty here who have done both find no reason to be impressed."
I dont need to see what other people think to know what I think. I thought her wedding dress was breathtaking. I thought she should have won that challenge. I thought her party dress was fantastic, and the fact that she researched BRs line to know that capes were in shows she went the extra mile. I thought the Postal uniform she designed was entirely appropriate, well thought out and comfortable. Clearly not everyone likes what she makes. That doesnt make her bad.
"And her elimination of Morgan was cold and cruel. Showed her true colors."
I watched this elimination. I didnt see cold or cruel. I saw a (hollywood)manufactured situation that was very uncomfortable for all involved, and she was trying to do her best in it.
I watched the show and I was appalled by the behavior I saw, but not by Wendy. I thought she was driven, focused and courageous. I thought the others were self-righteous, ego-driven drama queens. Given the choice, I would rather hang with Wendy
robert is fantastic. i can't get enough of him. does it help he has the personality that begs to be shown off to the parents, the looks that would win over your friends' approval, and the talent, well..he will get better.
and what a CUTE TOOSH. thanks bravo for not blurring that.
and what a CUTE TOOSH. thanks bravo for not blurring that.
Right on!!
Go Wendy!
I just love how everyone thinks Kara is going to win. Do you think the producers of the show are going to make it that obvious?
I cannot WAIT until Wendy wins!
Go Wendy!
I just love how everyone thinks Kara is going to win. Do you think the producers of the show are going to make it that obvious?
I cannot WAIT until Wendy wins!
Sorry, I disagree they're not worried about Wendy as competition, they're fearful of her underhandedness and unprofessionalism.
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Seriously though, it fully illustrates something I've noticed after spending some time looking through posts on various sections of this message board i.e. that the division here isn't so much between the Wendy haters and the Wendy lovers, but between the creative types and the non-creative/anti-creative types.
I too am creative (visual artist) and have always loved fashion from an artistic/creative standpoint. I don't necessarily buy or wear the clothes that I see, but I adore looking at them, imagining the creativity that went into them, the craft that put them together physically i.e. garment construction, etc. since I also sew. So when I saw Project Runway, I thought prayers for more artsy type TV, vs. the DIY scrapbooking crafty lady crap we normally see, or fashion as makeover shows, had at least been partially answered. I saw every episode from day one, and fully thought it was a competition..almost more like a documentary than a "survivor" type reality show...you know, being on Bravo and all. I mean, had it been on the Fox Channel or something, I may have at least had a clue. And I'm not a huge TV fan, but really worked myself around Bravo's schedule, and when I couldn't watch, I taped the show for later viewing. I so enjoyed seeing the challenges, and watching unfold before me the CREATIVE PROCESS...how the designers would pull from thin air, as creative people do, works of art. Good bad or ugly. And when it was ugly, or slightly missed the mark, I could relate. And when it was great, wow! I mean, a dress out of corn husks or a beach chair. Amazing. I can't even imagine the thought processes there.
So here are all these creative people, more or less like me, wrestling with these almost impossible challenges and deadlines. And one who is talking about strategy, how she wants to use other peoples weaknesses against them to win etc. etc. Hello? I think you're on the wrong show, my dear. There is no way your Big Brother/Survivor tactics are going to help you if you're no good.
And again and again I watched, as this person wasn't eliminated when she clearly should have been. But it was okay, because I knew eventually she would be. And when she turned on Austin and said he wasn't a good leader I thought, okay this is it. The judges will clearly see that she's not a team player...because it is obvious from the footage that she did nothing to contribute to the team i.e. telling Austin about her concerns about the dress as Vanessa tried to do. And Austin, oh Austin. Turning in Vanessa because she didn't sew as well, even though she at least provided you input...where Wendy told you everything you were doing was fantastic, only to stab you in the back for not being a good leader. Basically the same thing with Kevin. If she thought he wasn't a good leader, than as a good part of the TEAM, she should have at least said something rather than playing the passive aggressive sucking up game she played with him. In fact, the only time she talked about being part of the "team" was when she turned her back on her good friend Morgan (the model) and eliminated her because she knew the "team" wanted her gone. Give me a break. The only reason she was able to be nice to Morgan was because she didn't feel threatened by her...as she clearly was by the ages, differing mindsets, lifestyles, and talent of most of the others in the group. Argh.
But as a non-creative person or one who is threatened by creative people, I would not be interested in anyones talent, or clothing construction, etc. etc. I would look for personalities or people I could relate to and root for. So over and above the whole "controversy" factor that Wendy brought to the group, which I think was just a side benefit for Bravo casting, Wendy brought something else. The "O" factor, i.e. appealing to the every woman Oprah Winfrey type watching folks who couldn't care less about art, creativity etc. I think Bravo knew that they wouldn't have a strong enough draw with the purely creative faction, and they needed someone with broader appeal. Like I said, the fact that she chose to meet this challenge as a survivor type reality show and use subversive and passive aggressive tactics as her strategy, vs. focusing completely on creativity, design, and pure talent was probably just a bonus for Bravo, and their ratings. And this isn't to be "elitist" as some have said. I can no more relate to Wendy and her mindset than a non-creative person could relate to that of someone like Austin's or Jay's, Kara Saun's, or even Mario's. Different kinds of minds are just attracted to different things, that's all.
I think the fault here lies in Bravo's inability to clearly communicate that this was no more a competition of creativity than something like Big Brother or Survivor. Sure, they had to pull something passable out in the end to send to Fashion Week...so they did have to have some talent there. And I'm guessing that Banana Republic wouldn't completely compromise what integrity it has by backing a show with no talent. But judging from the results, and from the perspective of a creative person, they may as well have had a bunch of people pretending to be designers to see how many people they could fool as cast someone like Wendy...or at least keep her in as long as they did purely for demographic and/or ratings.
I'm sorry to say it, but you can't have it both ways. You can't have a controversial "reality show" with a broad ratings draw and keep the integrity of a show with an actual premise. Which is why everyone here is so po'd at one another. One group thought this show was a reality show, and in their minds, Wendy played the "best." And the other group is offended to their creative cores that someone who didn't deserve to, got as far as she did. and you can't really blame either side. Both were tricked and mislead to some degree imho. Which is probably fine with Bravo, since the creatives are in the minority...again, probably their rationale in including the "everywoman" in the first place. Oh well. Hopefully another cable channel will take Bravos concept and present it with a little integrity. You know, for the rest of us who don't merely want to be "entertained." *sigh*
WELL SAID! >>>APPLAUSE!!!<<< I swear, you should be a public speaker! You understood and laid out the two sides PERFECTLY!
Well written thoughts, but I kind of think some of what you are saying is crap. I don't like Wendy because she is a big bad survivor who tricked all these people, called people out when she saw their weaknesses, or kicked someone in the head when she was flying around on her broomstick. I like Wendy because I like her designs! Almost every outfit on the show she has done I have liked, most of the designs on her web site I like, and I have liked almost all of her FW collection. Even the pieces I didn't like I could see them being easily altered to be more appealing.
I think the writer of this article, as a creative person, somehow feels threatened by Wendy or by "non-creative" people as I think I and others have been called, and why? For no reason at all. There isn't a need to try to split people into two groups: its just a waste of time. Most of the Wendy-supporters on this site (the ones that have been here for a while) have stated repeatedly why we like her and the Wendy-haters always spin out some crap like that this article was so whole-heartedly slinging. Like I have said a million times before (and I am seriously contemplating not saying it again and not defending my thoughts again because I, like many others on the various sides, am beginning to feel like I am a broken record) think she is talented. It may not be a talent that you can appreciate, but she is talented!
Also, as for her being on the show, you cannot say she is there because the producers wanted drama (and don't dare quote that article because it said the producers were HOPING for that kind of drama, not altering the sequence of events to get it). Wendy is there because she has always designed things that were above some others, though the judges did not feel they were the best in most cases. Also, rewatching a show this evening, (it was either the post office one or the 2055 one), Tim said that from that point on, it wasn't about who was the best (in the judges opinions) anymore, it was about who was the worst, and the people that left from that point on were clearly the worst in one way or another. Tim also said from then on everything was mostly going to be taken on a challenge-to-challenge basis. I'm sorry to take away Wendy's broomstick and sweep some of you guys misplaced bitterness out of the door, but Wendy is there because she deserves to be. Period.
I agree with you that Wendy has some talent. Some of her things...though we didn't see many on the show...would certainly be wearable. But is she more talented than most struggling designers? Was she more talented than others on the show? Can any of us say with a straight face that we think she will be "the next great designer?" I don't think so. And therein lies the problem for many of us who were watching the show...we erroneously thought that was what the show was about i.e. the search for the "next great designer." Wasn't that in some of the promos? I don't rememeber.
I think what some of us forgot...but apparently you and some who like Wendy didn't...was that the show wasn't really about finding the next great designer. It was about choosing someone to work for Banana Republic...a more or less wearable brand that reaches a broad audience and market share. And for that reason, I feel that Wendy probably has a good chance of winning. To loosely quote Tim as you did (in the postal episode) "she has a lot of talent for ready to wear, and I have a lot of respect for that market." He's right. I can certainly see her fitting in at Banana Republic, or designing for Target or something...simple designs, easy (ergo inexpensive) to mass reproduce, and something not so different that they would appeal to a broad market. But again, that isn't what some of us...the creative types...tuned in to see.
As for saying that Bravo cast Wendy because she was controversial, I didn't say that. I think they cast her because she, like the others, fit into a certain demographic...the sort of middle-aged mom, trying to find her voice after having children, finding her passion (in Oprah speak) and completely out of her element among the more "creative types" in the group. Did that make her a bad person or less worthy than the others in my mind? No. But I think her own insecurties about that and the way she dealt with them did...which was too bad. Because I too am a forty something mom trying to find my passion in a creative field amongst those with training and experiences I don't have etc., and I feel she could have been a much better role model.
And as for my theory about the demographic or "typecasting" of Bravo, I think if you look a little closer at the other contestants, you might find I have some basis other than Wendy in my assumptions. Austin was sort of the quintessential young effeminate "gay" designer (though I'm not implying anything about his sexuality per se because its irrelevant, I'm just saying he fits that particular stereotype.) Robert is the hot young "hetero" male designer, Alexandra was the hot young female. Nora was the sort of alternative punk "angry" young female, Mario her male equivalent. Kara Saun the more experienced yet still struggling emerging designer, who just happened to be African American, which didn't hurt...and Jay was sort of, as he said, the Wildcard that no-one could figure out lol. Wendy was what I said above, and the younger much less experienced version of her could be found in Starr who had been a lawyer and was trying her hand at designing. So it seemed to me, that Bravo did a little bit more than just finding the best designers they could to compete...they also searched for "types" to fit certain demographics. And Wendy was chosen in part, as were the others, to fill a certain slot representing that demographic.
And as I also said and stand by, is that in part Bravo kept her around because she created a lot of controversy, and controversy apparently helped create ratings and drew viewers who weren't necessarily as interested in the creative stuff many of us who watched it from the beginning were. But I also suspect they kept her around for the Banana Republic factor. They liked and apparently mass produced and sold her dress. So how could they kick her out and still sell that dress, and not look like they had egg on their faces? And maybe she is what they're looking for and will ultimately win. But the next great American designer? Not even close imho. Sorry.
DANG, I wish I could see the interviews on this site. I can't get them to work. (Running Windoze XP, and Windoze Media Player, maybe THAT'S my problem ...) They just won't download. Which is weird, because I could swear I watched them on this site a couple of months ago ... I'd love to see Austin's exit interview.
Does anyone else think Wendy was kept in the final three to keep viewers interested and not on the basis of her work? It's the Omarosa thing, the reality show thing where there has to be a villian to keep tension heightened (vieweres hooked) and Wendy fits the bill. It's a shame for Austin but he is brilliant and young and has nothing but blue sky above him. Women like pretty clothes and they stand the test of time. Wouldn't you love to see an Austin designed Phantom or other mega show? Or what about an Austin Scarlett bridal empire. He understands the glamour.
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appealing to the every woman Oprah Winfrey type watching folks who couldn't care less about art
I am an Oprah lover and I hated Wendy's tactics. I love art, great movies, music,clothes, pretty jewlry and I never thought this show was about surviving. I wrongly thought this show was about finding talent, good designers and they did have some great contestants. The corn husk dress, a dress made out of a lawn chair who would have thought it could be done! Jay is great, Kara is great I thought Vanessa and Austin were great as well. Wendy left me speechless with her attitude...and to be a mother behaving like that.
Yeah, I love Oprah...but this mess...no I don't think so.
I love Oprah too lol. I guess I should have been more clear in saying that I was talking about her "demographic" i.e. the slightly more well heeled woman, with enough interest and money on her hands to buy things on her favorite things list, and with a little extra time on her hands to search for and find her "passion," but hasn't quite done so or is still in that process. So as I said in another thread, I think Wendy fit that demographic rather well. She was a forty something...though she looked more 50 something with that hair and the way she dressed...kind of out of her element in terms of age, training, experience, and mind set...as most women in the Oprah demographic would be if they cast their old lives aside or attempted to take it to the next level as Wendy appeared to be trying to do. And among these people pulled from and meant to appeal to different demographics, largely creative...at least among the final four. Oprah rocks, but she clearly speaks more now to a certain demographic, as you can see by her shows and most of the folks in her audience i.e. the "everywoman." Which is where I think Wendy fit, and why so many people who didn't watch the show for "creative" reasons could relate to her. They could see themselves in Wendy's shoes were they in that situation, you know?
When I said "well heeled" I should also have added, "or at least aspiring to be." Not that I'm saying that's you or me specifically as viewers, but I think in general.
Michael Kors nailed it when he said it is a business. Are you going to invest millions of dollars in a unreliable flake no matter how talented. Talent has to have maturity and responsibility to go with it. The posters on this board forget that selling art, whether its paintings, clothing or photography it is a business.
Wendy told the truth about wishy washy Kevin and Austin in his own costumed world, but worst of all she came to compete and not participate in the frat parties. Wendy has not had been the worst yet, next to last over and over. But she has adapted to what is required by the clients(judges), those that haven't, like Austin's Grammy dress, are gone.
As a photographer that has had many exhibitions and photos entered in contests there is a fine line between submitting what the buyer/judge is looking for and compromising your craft and art.
The "Myth of Talent" is obviously alive and well for Project Runway. Talent is more than just artistic ability demonstrated by all the contestants, it is an individual dealing with all aspects of their craft, striving to improve and meet the objectives and paying attention to being a business professional - as said by Michael Kors.
Wendy told the truth about wishy washy Kevin and Austin in his own costumed world, but worst of all she came to compete and not participate in the frat parties. Wendy has not had been the worst yet, next to last over and over. But she has adapted to what is required by the clients(judges), those that haven't, like Austin's Grammy dress, are gone.
As a photographer that has had many exhibitions and photos entered in contests there is a fine line between submitting what the buyer/judge is looking for and compromising your craft and art.
The "Myth of Talent" is obviously alive and well for Project Runway. Talent is more than just artistic ability demonstrated by all the contestants, it is an individual dealing with all aspects of their craft, striving to improve and meet the objectives and paying attention to being a business professional - as said by Michael Kors.
"But in the case of Wendy, it's sort of like a reverse 'boy who cried wolf' situation. She was mean and conniving--therefore, anything she did after her antics with Austin and Kevin was suspect to trickery--i.e. whether or not she really 'stole' Kara's fabric is, in my opinion, up for debate. Had she and Kara been friends, sharing fabric would not have been the end of the world--at least, in my opinion. I'm sure Kara would've welcomed Wendy's use of it--but since Wendy royally pissed everyone off, the fact that she took Kara's roll of fabric meant she stole it."
Exactly!! And it's too bad, because I think Wendy could have really benefitted from allowing herself to trust the other designers initially rather than finding reasons not to, to be manipulative, focus on ways that they were different from her, etc. As I said earlier, I feel like so many people can relate to Wendy because they can imagine themselves being in that situation, clearly out of their element in terms of being with "those creative types," some of which have been described as "20-something elitist whiny crybabies living on their parent's dollar." Which is part of how I came up with my theory. It was clear to me that some people are uncomfortable with and/or threatened by creative "types" believing they are elitist, think they know something that they don't etc. But when it comes right down to it, its just a different way of seeing things, people and the world. And what I think most of those viewers don't realize is that another one of the reasons the more "creative types" in the audience may have reacted so strongly to Wendy's rejection of the others was because that is something that they experience on a daily basis...in the real world. The rest of the group seemed so sympatico and were able to bond with one another easily because in a way, creative people are a minority and often feel disenfranchised and not connected to others because of their creative mind sets, quirkiness, etc. So they felt at home with one another in a way that they might not have in their ordinary lives, unless they were surrounded by creative people 24-7. So as a somewhat closet creative myself since most people in my life are non-creative, I can relate to that experience of feeling like I am with others of like mind when I am with others who are creative. And it was upsetting to me that Wendy chose to use their own sort of innocence and willingness to be open and helpful with her, trying to see and treat her as "one of them" against her. As perhaps many others did also. Oh well.
Exactly!! And it's too bad, because I think Wendy could have really benefitted from allowing herself to trust the other designers initially rather than finding reasons not to, to be manipulative, focus on ways that they were different from her, etc. As I said earlier, I feel like so many people can relate to Wendy because they can imagine themselves being in that situation, clearly out of their element in terms of being with "those creative types," some of which have been described as "20-something elitist whiny crybabies living on their parent's dollar." Which is part of how I came up with my theory. It was clear to me that some people are uncomfortable with and/or threatened by creative "types" believing they are elitist, think they know something that they don't etc. But when it comes right down to it, its just a different way of seeing things, people and the world. And what I think most of those viewers don't realize is that another one of the reasons the more "creative types" in the audience may have reacted so strongly to Wendy's rejection of the others was because that is something that they experience on a daily basis...in the real world. The rest of the group seemed so sympatico and were able to bond with one another easily because in a way, creative people are a minority and often feel disenfranchised and not connected to others because of their creative mind sets, quirkiness, etc. So they felt at home with one another in a way that they might not have in their ordinary lives, unless they were surrounded by creative people 24-7. So as a somewhat closet creative myself since most people in my life are non-creative, I can relate to that experience of feeling like I am with others of like mind when I am with others who are creative. And it was upsetting to me that Wendy chose to use their own sort of innocence and willingness to be open and helpful with her, trying to see and treat her as "one of them" against her. As perhaps many others did also. Oh well.
"I like to watch people squirm, I could stay there forever". I'm wondering just what kind of therapy is her daughter gonna need when she's in her teens, 20s or 30s? What mother, let me preface that, good mother, says something that horrible?
You do know Jay is gay right?
he also was right on it when he said, "Well I certainly don't see any consistency there." Talking about Wendy.
Thanks snoops, and anyone else who thought I had some good insights. And hey. I found an article this morning when I was googling Project Runway but put in fashion runway by mistake. It says that Tommy Hilfiger is talking about doing a show called "the Cut" for CBS. Clearly not a show I want to watch, since I know it will be tied to a brand...though at least knowing that it will be more like the apprentice and brand driven, where it wasn't really clear in project runway, will make it a little easier to swallow? Still, wouldn't it be fantastic if maybe PBS or someone could do something similar to PR without the brand influence, without having to worry about the commercial sponsors and ratings as much, typecasting, and have a truly competitive series based on talent, creativity, design, etc.? Ahhh. I can dream, right?
PS-Here's the article if you want to read http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2005/
02/17/project_runway_is_true_to_form/ Some good stuff about how Bravo higher ups loved the drama too lol.
PS-Here's the article if you want to read http://www.boston.com/news/globe/living/articles/2005/
02/17/project_runway_is_true_to_form/ Some good stuff about how Bravo higher ups loved the drama too lol.
Adelphus,
I couldn't have said it better. I came into the show at the BP challenge and have watched since. I am scratching my head wondering what went on behind the scenes to make others so hostile towards WP. I realize now that because she's just not a "joiner" (something we have in common) and is the most emotionally stable and confident, that there is alot of resentment and reactionary behavior. I totally agree that what I know of the fashoin bz ( I am NO expert) you must be thick-skinned. She has show that she is just that. Someone made the point that she hasn't bad-mouthed anyone behind the scenes, yep I think she has proven herself with both her WINNING designs and her mature behavior.
Go Wendy, Go Wendy..
Riv
I couldn't have said it better. I came into the show at the BP challenge and have watched since. I am scratching my head wondering what went on behind the scenes to make others so hostile towards WP. I realize now that because she's just not a "joiner" (something we have in common) and is the most emotionally stable and confident, that there is alot of resentment and reactionary behavior. I totally agree that what I know of the fashoin bz ( I am NO expert) you must be thick-skinned. She has show that she is just that. Someone made the point that she hasn't bad-mouthed anyone behind the scenes, yep I think she has proven herself with both her WINNING designs and her mature behavior.
Go Wendy, Go Wendy..
Riv
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Talent is more than just artistic ability demonstrated by all the contestants, it is an individual dealing with all aspects of their craft, striving to improve and meet the objectives and paying attention to being a business professional - as said by Michael Kors.
I couldnt disagree with you more. I assure you that Vincent Van Gogh was totally unable to market his work! LOL your opinion is colored by capitalist market concerns. Michael Kors is an extremely boring designer of ladies who lunch color by numbers clothes. He's a good business man. Never mistake that for true artistic creativity. We'd never have Chagall or Georgia O'Keefe if viewed good art as a package that fails on its commercial worth. Let's get some higher ideals into this Happy Meal society of ours, huh?
I think I agree with most of your assesments. And thanks for a level headed, polite post with no flaming or bashing of anyone.
Quote "There was a pic of Nancy in the "tweaked" version"
On opining the Windy design Nancy wore, It is sorta apt justice that she put it out there that Windy Pepper designed the dress. Now the world can know that this is the calibure of work Windy produces (albeit seriously lacking in style). I know that if i designed crap and it was going to be show to the public at large, I just assume they leave my name off it, regardless of the publicity it may give.
On opining the Windy design Nancy wore, It is sorta apt justice that she put it out there that Windy Pepper designed the dress. Now the world can know that this is the calibure of work Windy produces (albeit seriously lacking in style). I know that if i designed crap and it was going to be show to the public at large, I just assume they leave my name off it, regardless of the publicity it may give.
I agree too. Of course everyone on here knows me too as a Wendy fan. I just wish my voice could have been heard more on this forum...my posts were just too much to read for some people here. I had a lot of info about the Kevin and Wendy issue as well as the Austin and Wendy issue...I gave my reasons why I defended her AND information about her talent and attitude on this show. There's sooo much more that I can explain about Wendy that will probably change some peoples minds here...but some people on here have too much of a narrow point of view on things. If things appear this way...they will think that way.
Anyways, I loved Wendy's grammy outfit. Some person on this board said "Wendy can't rely on her talent, she needs to ask Nancy questions in order to keep herself structured instead of making the dress out of her head." Or something like that. Well...to defend that, the whole challenge was to design a grammy award outfit that met up to Nancy O'dell's likes. PLUS, the grammy award outfit had to be good too. You HAD to ask Nancy questions in order to meet up to her wants. How else can you please her without knowing what she wants? Like Wendy's site...she said she previously designed a great red carpet dress...but when she learned that Nancy O'dell was going to want a dress fit for her more, Wendy had to trash her idea and start all over. So Wendy DID already have an idea straight from her head, but she coudn't do it because then she would probably lose the challenge. She deserves to be in the final three. I knew she would be. And I also knew that her filming on television is trying to trick people into making her look like a nasty old female with phsycological issues..and somebody not worth making it to the final three. Yes, I think most of you guys have been tricked. Not me though, iv read and seen enough information to fully understand. I never look at somebody when there angry and autimatically think "I hate her." or "She has issues." I never judge people. I like Wendy a lot, and she explained on the 10th episodes everything I thought she would.
Anyways, I loved Wendy's grammy outfit. Some person on this board said "Wendy can't rely on her talent, she needs to ask Nancy questions in order to keep herself structured instead of making the dress out of her head." Or something like that. Well...to defend that, the whole challenge was to design a grammy award outfit that met up to Nancy O'dell's likes. PLUS, the grammy award outfit had to be good too. You HAD to ask Nancy questions in order to meet up to her wants. How else can you please her without knowing what she wants? Like Wendy's site...she said she previously designed a great red carpet dress...but when she learned that Nancy O'dell was going to want a dress fit for her more, Wendy had to trash her idea and start all over. So Wendy DID already have an idea straight from her head, but she coudn't do it because then she would probably lose the challenge. She deserves to be in the final three. I knew she would be. And I also knew that her filming on television is trying to trick people into making her look like a nasty old female with phsycological issues..and somebody not worth making it to the final three. Yes, I think most of you guys have been tricked. Not me though, iv read and seen enough information to fully understand. I never look at somebody when there angry and autimatically think "I hate her." or "She has issues." I never judge people. I like Wendy a lot, and she explained on the 10th episodes everything I thought she would.
Has everyone watched Rob's extended exit video where he relates that Wendy was originally designing a navy blue and white thing for Nancy O'Dell and then saw Kara Saun's and changed her colors to match? I can see why Kara Saun was pissed. Wendy did rip her off, she basically knows that Kara is going to the big three so she just copied Kara Saun, even though her poorly made copy dress had to be AUGMENTED into a completely different design for the Grammy's. Wendy's trashy and a phoney.
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OK, maybe Vanessa was a bit hostle at the reunion show. But, she has been my favorite since episode one and she is still my favorite! She has always been real and real people have bad days. Bullshi*ters fake having good days even when they're miserable. Like Daniel, he could tell you how spiritually uplifting and monumentally fantastic his last bowel movement was! I think Vanessa puts it right out there- good or bad - there's no sugarcoating. I mean, she was fabulous the whole time she was on the show and she deserves to be judged by her whole time, not one conversation. Or maybe we shouldn't be JUDGING her or anyone on the show. Anyway, Vanessa is absolutley the most fantastic designer on the show- not only based on what we saw on the show, but based on her elaborate portfolio on her website (www.vanessariley.com) too. So she walked out! to me that shows that she above the abuse. It's really sad what Reality TV has come to. The producers or the viewers, for that matter, don't care about the people on the shows. It's just entertainment at someone else's expense. Vanessa is already an established designer why should she put up with abuse? Vanessa, you rock baby!
A *bit* hostile? She was extremely hostile, both in the reunion show and in the interview she gave. Sure real people have bad days, but real adults work through them, not lash out at everyone involved and end up looking like an a$$ in the process.
It's business, and in business you don't get to throw a hissy fit in the middle of the day, not if you want people to respect what you have to say tomorrow. I wouldn't hire someone with Vanessa's attitude and I certainly wouldn't work for someone with her attitude.
She has some great designs, and I'd probably love to go out drinking with her, but as far as working with her...forget it. For someone who claims that being a fashion designer is all about image (which I agree with) she should have known better than to put it all out there, good and bad. Sugarcoat the bad mood until it's not visible, put on a happy face and *save* face if that's what you have to do.
Also, while I don't remember them showing much of her actually saying it (just interviews of people repeating it) she must have complained a *lot* about her lack of sewing skills (which she of course now denies..."I can sew, I just don't usually do it"...then shut up about it and sew!) for everyone else to think that she was a really terrible seamstress. So I think we are judging her (whether that's right or fair or not) on her whole time in the show, not just one conversation.
Sure it's just reality tv, it's just entertainment *for us*. This was a big opportunity for Vanessa and she blew it. Had she not given the interview and shown up at the reunion show with a pleasant, professional manner she would still be beloved by all. But she didn't, and we got to see what she's really like. That's her fault, not reality televisions, not the producers, not ours.
Where is the picture of the dress that Nancy wore?
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Talent is more than just artistic ability demonstrated by all the contestants, it is an individual dealing with all aspects of their craft, striving to improve and meet the objectives and paying attention to being a business professional - as said by Michael Kors.
I couldnt disagree with you more. I assure you that Vincent Van Gogh was totally unable to market his work! LOL your opinion is colored by capitalist market concerns. Michael Kors is an extremely boring designer of ladies who lunch color by numbers clothes. He's a good business man. Never mistake that for true artistic creativity. We'd never have Chagall or Georgia O'Keefe if viewed good art as a package that fails on its commercial worth. Let's get some higher ideals into this Happy Meal society of ours, huh?
Bravo, fastfashion...my thoughts exactly. I mean, why does something need to have the ability to be mass produced and consumed by billions for it to be considered valuable or worthy in our society? And I don't think in art, any of the masters would have ever become masters we recognize them to be today if they hadn't taken chances. And without taking chances, you will miss any opportunities to break new ground.
Sure fashion is more of a market driven art than the fine arts, but it is still an art in my mind nonetheless. And probably one of the reasons that it turns around and around on itself rehashing old themes and trends is because it is terrified to break new ground, since look what happens to those that do, while the trend spotters and derivatives are rewarded. And while I have nothing against Michael Kors, it is true he is more of a "brand" than a designer...and I do prefer seeing the work of the avant garde designers who don't make it into the mass market. There you'll see some semblance of ground breaking, innovative design...some of which filters in to the major brands...but not enough to make them really worth getting excited about.
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I think what some of us forgot...but apparently you and some who like Wendy didn't...was that the show wasn't really about finding the next great designer. It was about choosing someone to work for Banana Republic...a more or less wearable brand that reaches a broad audience and market share. And for that reason, I feel that Wendy probably has a good chance of winning. To loosely quote Tim as you did (in the postal episode) "she has a lot of talent for ready to wear, and I have a lot of respect for that market." He's right. I can certainly see her fitting in at Banana Republic, or designing for Target or something...simple designs, easy (ergo inexpensive) to mass reproduce, and something not so different that they would appeal to a broad market. But again, that isn't what some of us...the creative types...tuned in to see.
I disagree that they were trying to find someone to work for BR. The prize, while including a mentorship with BR, is seed money for the winning designer to start their own line of clothing. I think they were trying to find the next *big* designer (not great, that's subjective) and in a way they're going to do that no matter who they have win, because with the $100k and all the publicity the person they pick is going to have a really good chance at making it big.
This is also why I don't feel Wendy should win. I agree with you that her designs are very wearable, especially when she is designing for an existing label/client, but I don't think that she has the vision to produce her own line of clothing. If the contest was really to find the best person to work at BR, I'd want Wendy to win, because I think she'd do the best there (and because I think most of the other designers are better equiped for starting their own lines, not designing for an existing label).
I think you can say that Bravo kept her around because they *hoped* she would create controversy, but this was all filmed before any of it aired. There was no controversy (among the viewers, at least) when they first picked her to go on to the final three, and for all the producers knew there would be no outrage from the audience.
Now, the producers are very smart, and they know this business (of television) well, so I'm sure they assumed she'd be good for the ratings as far as controversy went, but I think it's probably a more accurate description to say that they kept Wendy on because she caused drama within the group dynamic, and drama is what creates ratings, both the drama of watching a designer struggle with producing an outfit in time and the drama of watching a group struggle with a difficult member. Even if there wasn't so much anti-Wendy attitude among the viewers, there certainly was among the designers, and that creates more tension, which creates more stress, which creates anger and bitchiness (and how did Jay put it? I just think Yeah, bring it on!) which ultimately creates good "reality television".
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Quote "There was a pic of Nancy in the "tweaked" version"
On opining the Windy design Nancy wore, It is sorta apt justice that she put it out there that Windy Pepper designed the dress. Now the world can know that this is the calibure of work Windy produces (albeit seriously lacking in style). I know that if i designed crap and it was going to be show to the public at large, I just assume they leave my name off it, regardless of the publicity it may give.
I saw the dress Nancy wore to the Grammys. I much prefer the original.
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I couldnt disagree with you more. I assure you that Vincent Van Gogh was totally unable to market his work! LOL your opinion is colored by capitalist market concerns. Michael Kors is an extremely boring designer of ladies who lunch color by numbers clothes. He's a good business man. Never mistake that for true artistic creativity. We'd never have Chagall or Georgia O'Keefe if viewed good art as a package that fails on its commercial worth. Let's get some higher ideals into this Happy Meal society of ours, huh?
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Bravo, fastfashion...my thoughts exactly. I mean, why does something need to have the ability to be mass produced and consumed by billions for it to be considered valuable or worthy in our society? And I don't think in art, any of the masters would have ever become masters we recognize them to be today if they hadn't taken chances. And without taking chances, you will miss any opportunities to break new ground.
Sure fashion is more of a market driven art than the fine arts, but it is still an art in my mind nonetheless. And probably one of the reasons that it turns around and around on itself rehashing old themes and trends is because it is terrified to break new ground, since look what happens to those that do, while the trend spotters and derivatives are rewarded. And while I have nothing against Michael Kors, it is true he is more of a "brand" than a designer...and I do prefer seeing the work of the avant garde designers who don't make it into the mass market. There you'll see some semblance of ground breaking, innovative design...some of which filters in to the major brands...but not enough to make them really worth getting excited about.
I think you and fastfashion are being a little harsh on those who would acknowledge the business aspect of fashion. To say that if you are successful at the business of fashion is to not have "true" artistic creativity (that's always bothered me, on a side note, this idea of what is a "true" anything) is so arrogant to the point of missing what those who are successful do contribute to the art of fashion.
There is a very big difference between high art of painting and sculpting and that of fashion. Artwork like a painting doesn't require anything from the public. It's between the painter and the canvas, and anyone else is strictly an observer. This is not true with fashion. People have to actually wear the designs for them to be clothing, otherwise the fabric and design becomes a sculpture. Fashion is form and function, just like furniture design, for example.
Part of the beauty of fashion is in it's use. If people aren't wearing your clothes, than you're missing part of the art, imo. My pottery professor would make this point, that a bowl can be beautiful in form, but it's not really complete until you use it, until it's function is filled. That's the nature of the art form.
To say that those of us who see this are just buying into the "Happy Meal" society who only sees worth when something is mass produced and consumed by billions is so insulting. I see great worth in plenty of designs that aren't wearable because they do affect the rest of the art/industry. But I see the most worth in an item of clothing (or furniture, or pottery) that can be creative in form and practical in function all at the same time,
I am shocked at the way the public has precieved Wendy. I actually think that she is the most real person that has been on the show and for her to be attacked the way that she has been outrages me. Wendy has spoken the truth about Austin and Kevin. They did lack managment skills in those challenges and did not put forth their best efforts in conveying what they wanted or needed. It seems that too many people are judging her based on their own personal preferences toward the other people on the show and are not seeing the truth of the matter that she has remained honest during her time on the show. I will admit that sometimes her designs even make me wonder but still, she won a few challenges and has proven herself and for people to hate her so much and for Jay and Kara to be such whiners about her making it to the finals outrages me. They would not have so many emotions or feelings about the whole situation if they did not feel threatened. I just wanted to say that out of everyone on the show, Wendy has remained open, honest, and has also proven herself so that is what really counts in a contest like this.
As I have come in close to the end of this discourse, please forgive any "regression" to previous concepts on my part.
I have read with interest comments about originality and copying. For example, Wendy was chided for stealing her BR dress from Givenchy.
In fashion -- even more than in "fine art" -- there is no crime in being derivative. Many haute couture designers openly acknowledge their major influences, if not their outright sources. So doing something "in the style of" is not necessarily a bad thing. (Hell, we can't all be Elsa Schiaparelli, and even she had her historical and contemporary influences.) However, some mark of individuality and originality must be superimposed -- otherwise, the work is a mere copy or hack reworking.
I think that some people have failed to distinguish between copying and being heavily influenced by another's work. More often than not, it seems that the category chosen jives with the poster's overall level of appreciation for the designer and/or the work: "I don't like you or it" = copy, "I like you or it" = influenced by.
One other thing: Wendy's collection went by the name of "Thrill of the Hunt," and someone mentioned at least one equestrian item. Does the collection have a strong pseudo-English equestrian slant? If so, that is totally in keeping with where she lives and works.
I have read with interest comments about originality and copying. For example, Wendy was chided for stealing her BR dress from Givenchy.
In fashion -- even more than in "fine art" -- there is no crime in being derivative. Many haute couture designers openly acknowledge their major influences, if not their outright sources. So doing something "in the style of" is not necessarily a bad thing. (Hell, we can't all be Elsa Schiaparelli, and even she had her historical and contemporary influences.) However, some mark of individuality and originality must be superimposed -- otherwise, the work is a mere copy or hack reworking.
I think that some people have failed to distinguish between copying and being heavily influenced by another's work. More often than not, it seems that the category chosen jives with the poster's overall level of appreciation for the designer and/or the work: "I don't like you or it" = copy, "I like you or it" = influenced by.
One other thing: Wendy's collection went by the name of "Thrill of the Hunt," and someone mentioned at least one equestrian item. Does the collection have a strong pseudo-English equestrian slant? If so, that is totally in keeping with where she lives and works.
Just read your response back to a Defendy. You kick serious a**, Purpledreamart! I don't know you from Adam, but you are awesome!!! I don't know Wendy from Adam either, but she still makes me angry! Go Jay!
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I couldnt disagree with you more. I assure you that Vincent Van Gogh was totally unable to market his work! LOL your opinion is colored by capitalist market concerns. Michael Kors is an extremely boring designer of ladies who lunch color by numbers clothes. He's a good business man. Never mistake that for true artistic creativity. We'd never have Chagall or Georgia O'Keefe if viewed good art as a package that fails on its commercial worth. Let's get some higher ideals into this Happy Meal society of ours, huh?
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Bravo, fastfashion...my thoughts exactly. I mean, why does something need to have the ability to be mass produced and consumed by billions for it to be considered valuable or worthy in our society? And I don't think in art, any of the masters would have ever become masters we recognize them to be today if they hadn't taken chances. And without taking chances, you will miss any opportunities to break new ground.
Sure fashion is more of a market driven art than the fine arts, but it is still an art in my mind nonetheless. And probably one of the reasons that it turns around and around on itself rehashing old themes and trends is because it is terrified to break new ground, since look what happens to those that do, while the trend spotters and derivatives are rewarded. And while I have nothing against Michael Kors, it is true he is more of a "brand" than a designer...and I do prefer seeing the work of the avant garde designers who don't make it into the mass market. There you'll see some semblance of ground breaking, innovative design...some of which filters in to the major brands...but not enough to make them really worth getting excited about.
I think you and fastfashion are being a little harsh on those who would acknowledge the business aspect of fashion. To say that if you are successful at the business of fashion is to not have "true" artistic creativity (that's always bothered me, on a side note, this idea of what is a "true" anything) is so arrogant to the point of missing what those who are successful do contribute to the art of fashion.
There is a very big difference between high art of painting and sculpting and that of fashion. Artwork like a painting doesn't require anything from the public. It's between the painter and the canvas, and anyone else is strictly an observer. This is not true with fashion. People have to actually wear the designs for them to be clothing, otherwise the fabric and design becomes a sculpture. Fashion is form and function, just like furniture design, for example.
Part of the beauty of fashion is in it's use. If people aren't wearing your clothes, than you're missing part of the art, imo. My pottery professor would make this point, that a bowl can be beautiful in form, but it's not really complete until you use it, until it's function is filled. That's the nature of the art form.
To say that those of us who see this are just buying into the "Happy Meal" society who only sees worth when something is mass produced and consumed by billions is so insulting. I see great worth in plenty of designs that aren't wearable because they do affect the rest of the art/industry. But I see the most worth in an item of clothing (or furniture, or pottery) that can be creative in form and practical in function all at the same time,
No offense intended, Sarah Catherine...but I know I particular resonated with fastfashions comments because even the fine arts are now becoming so commercialized that the same can be said for the fine arts as for fashion. That unless you are widely popular, meaning if millions of people don't want your work, then you and your work are nothing. That if you don't create work that sells, and ideally sells alot meaning it must appeal to a broader audience, that you're living in a delusional fantasy land. And as a result it has created this almost Kincade-esque mentality that requires them to produce work that will appeal to the widest audience possibl, mass produce and mass market their work, sell it on QVC or the Home Shopping Network or whatever, and if they are successful, then they are a successful "artist." Which some people argue couldn't be farther from the truth.
But artists need to survive like everyone else, so we all need to "sell out" to a certain degree...so we take less chances, are less innovative or groundbreaking than we might be if all we had to worry about was art for arts sake. Much like in the fashion industry and its need to sell clothes, artists need to sell their work in order to survive. And imho that stymies the progression of the art form, be it paint on canvas or clothing design. And as I said, we're not even talking here about making a living, but making a fortune via mass marketing, which waters down the process even more so and hence retards overall growth.
As for the fact that fashion or furniture design are by definition more function driven than say a painting on canvas, I disagree. There are many examples of fashion, furniture design, architechture, and craft that are fully functional but still considered art. I think what maybe the teachers or leaders in the fashion world are talking about it more of the other...i.e. if you want to make money and be successful (i.e. make big money) then you need to appeal to a wide market. Which is sad. Because in a sense it contributes to our training as a society to value that which everyone else deems valuable and is worthy of the "mass market." It's not flawless design, or innovation, or anything groundbreaking that usually makes something palatable to the broadest markets...it is more formulaic and whittling down to the most common denominator elements that most people will find appealing and want to have. Which is nothing about art imho. Sorry to disagree, at least in part. Hopefully you'll get what I'm trying to say, as its not the "problem" (if in fact there is one) of individual artists or designers, but of our society as a whole and how our values have become sort of skewed too much toward one thing than the other.
I agree with everything you said sarahcatherine. Let me add just one point -- Vanessa's utterly miserable attitude was not confined to a drunken meanness on the reunion show. It was in full evidence in her popgurls interview, which she attempted to distance herself from on the show by saying it was "over the telephone"! (LOL) Yes, I frequently say things I am unaware of over the telephone, don't you?
In that interview, she lambasted the producers for not showing how funny she was and how everyone loved her. She then undercut that "love" by saying the talent pool was low and that with the exception of Kevin, no one else had experience, which was flat-out wrong. She reiterated in that interview that she can't sew and that her clients don't expect her to. (probably true). She said Heidi was horrible (which Austin flatly disagrees with in a recent interview) and that she thought the show would be different (which Nora set her straight on -- "we all signed up for this."). When a 23-year old has more perspective, you are in trouble. She had to throw her sales figures in the faces of the younger designers to show again her superiority, (although she also said she couldn't pay bills in a video interview) and blamed the show for them declining. (huh?). She turned on Austin, someone she claims to have been very close to, by saying he was driving her figures down.
I actually feel sad for Vanessa. She is plainly talented, but she's got some issues. Maybe alcohol-related, maybe not, it's hard to tell from the edits. However, I do think it's a little odd to get a load on just before you go on national television, no? She's not in New York as a designer because she can't deal with the stress. It's why she committed suicide on the "rock star" challenge and why she hated the reunion show. And that's fine. She can be very successful in Houston going at her own pace.
In that interview, she lambasted the producers for not showing how funny she was and how everyone loved her. She then undercut that "love" by saying the talent pool was low and that with the exception of Kevin, no one else had experience, which was flat-out wrong. She reiterated in that interview that she can't sew and that her clients don't expect her to. (probably true). She said Heidi was horrible (which Austin flatly disagrees with in a recent interview) and that she thought the show would be different (which Nora set her straight on -- "we all signed up for this."). When a 23-year old has more perspective, you are in trouble. She had to throw her sales figures in the faces of the younger designers to show again her superiority, (although she also said she couldn't pay bills in a video interview) and blamed the show for them declining. (huh?). She turned on Austin, someone she claims to have been very close to, by saying he was driving her figures down.
I actually feel sad for Vanessa. She is plainly talented, but she's got some issues. Maybe alcohol-related, maybe not, it's hard to tell from the edits. However, I do think it's a little odd to get a load on just before you go on national television, no? She's not in New York as a designer because she can't deal with the stress. It's why she committed suicide on the "rock star" challenge and why she hated the reunion show. And that's fine. She can be very successful in Houston going at her own pace.
I watched Rob's video...and LIKE I SAID BEFORE, Wendy already had her own idea sketched out...not for Nancy O'dell...for herself. But once she knew Nancy O'dell was going to be part of the challenge, she had to trash her ideas and start from scratch all over again. The reason why she chose orange wasn't because of Kara. Wendy already shopped around for fabric before even looking at Kara. She chose orange before even seeing Kara choose orange. Wendy knew what she wanted. As for the fabric stealing, she didin't steal Kara's fabric. She simply just wanted to see if it would go with her design or her fabric choice too. However, even if Wendy DID choose to use the same fabric...her design came out completetly different from Kara's anyways. Just because you are using the same fabric as another person, doesn't mean you are ripping them off. Im not sure if lots of people on here know a lot about fashion or apparel making. Im not saying I know a lot, but that's just my opinion. Who cares anyways? Wendy's design came out different from Kara's by a lot. And it's not like she had to ask Kara "Can I barrow this fabric to see if I can use it too?" Mabye Wendy didn't know Kara was using it. Kara didn't even purchase the fabric yet. But, this is all over with anyways. Her design came out different from Kara's, and I liked it. I loved Kara's design too, but I thought the leather pants had to go. I liked Wendy's design a lot, and I thought it was cute. I didin't understand Nina when she said a dress can't match for the grammy's...I'll never understand Nina as far as I know.
Wendy isn't phoney, or trashy. I think her designs were really good on Project Runway. No, not her BEST at all. Why? Because of lots of things. The terrible environment everybody had, the rediculous time constraints and so much more. It's very stressful, and Wendy still managed to pull off some talent. The dress that I think is MOST underrated is her "cotton outfit" dress...I thought it was gorgous and very couture. One of the most diverse cotton dresses iv ever seen in "couture" form. It was perfect...it just wasn't finished a bit.
Wendy isn't phoney, or trashy. I think her designs were really good on Project Runway. No, not her BEST at all. Why? Because of lots of things. The terrible environment everybody had, the rediculous time constraints and so much more. It's very stressful, and Wendy still managed to pull off some talent. The dress that I think is MOST underrated is her "cotton outfit" dress...I thought it was gorgous and very couture. One of the most diverse cotton dresses iv ever seen in "couture" form. It was perfect...it just wasn't finished a bit.
I watched Rob's video...and LIKE I SAID BEFORE, Wendy already had her own idea sketched out...not for Nancy O'dell...for herself. But once she knew Nancy O'dell was going to be part of the challenge, she had to trash her ideas and start from scratch all over again. The reason why she chose orange wasn't because of Kara. Wendy already shopped around for fabric before even looking at Kara. She chose orange before even seeing Kara choose orange. Wendy knew what she wanted. As for the fabric stealing, she didin't steal Kara's fabric. She simply just wanted to see if it would go with her design or her fabric choice too. However, even if Wendy DID choose to use the same fabric...her design came out completetly different from Kara's anyways. Just because you are using the same fabric as another person, doesn't mean you are ripping them off. Im not sure if lots of people on here know a lot about fashion or apparel making. Im not saying I know a lot, but that's just my opinion. Who cares anyways? Wendy's design came out different from Kara's by a lot. And it's not like she had to ask Kara "Can I barrow this fabric to see if I can use it too?" Mabye Wendy didn%
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