Somuchforthat
February 21, 2005 - 03:09 AM
Oh Lordy.
E-mail, even flame e-mail, does not constitute "stalking" or any other kind of imminent threat, unless some sort of personal jeopardy is implied. Period.
Are we now going to open a totally bogus legal discussion? Please. Let's not.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 03:24 AM
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Kara's design is SO GOOD. I wonder why the judges chose Wendy's GAMMY dress but I bet more than half of us thinks Kara, Jay, or Austin's is WAY better than Wendy's.
I thought Kara chose beautiful fabrics, but I didn't like the design, particularly with slacks. For once, I thought Kara's outfit was "dowdy."
As for the "judges," they didn't pick Wendy's dress. Nancy O'Dell picked it (the one who wore it). That made Wendy the winner of the competition. The other judges tried HARD to sway Nancy from her choice. I'm glad Nancy chose the one she truly liked. I would want Nancy to choose the right one for her, no matter whose design it was.
I wanted to see Kara, Austin and Wendy go to FW. I was sorry to see Austin go. But I didn't like Austin's outfit for the Grammy's at all. I thought it was the worst dress he had designed, and it was "dowdy."
I didn't care for Jays' outfit, but I did like the graduation in color scheme of his skirt, and the textures. As some of you have said, I've wondered, had Jay left his top alone (before Kara gave him "advice") would Nancy have picked it?
Mel
If you noticed in the episode, Nancy O said she liked Kara's outfit the best, she just couldn't wear/doesn't feel comfortable wearing things that shine and sparkle when on camera. Which was why I think it was Heidi said any of the outfits could be "tweaked." I think in the end Nancy went with W's outfit because she had no choice...especially after what Michael K said about the "what were they thinking" tabloid thing. So, having to choose something, she went with what was safe i.e. basically what was already in her closet i.e. the top she wore to the PR workroom that day. *sigh*
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 03:28 AM
Uhm, I think it's called personal style. You should be able to tell from looking at a design who did it by virtue of their "personal style." Something Wendy clearly didn't have as her stuff was all over the place.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 03:32 AM
Are you sure? I definitely saw an orange "poof" that sort of swayed in the wind as someone walked by it. It was blurry and looked a lot like feathers, though it may have been something else...but I definitely saw bright orange.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 03:36 AM
I just looked again, and whatever it was, it was DEFINITELY orange. With a gold sort of lame looking belt.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 03:41 AM
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TTB could you tell if it was feathers on that skirt in the PO challenge?
I posted on the wrong challenge! That's what I get for trying to scroll through the tape and watch Bringing Down the House at the same time...but the movie is so doggone funny!
Anyway, I got to the post office challenge and YES!...there are orange feathers on that mini-skirt! The top is a little darker orange but with "tweaking", it's the EXACT same outfit that Wendy made! Holy friggin' crap - she copied it!
Thank goodness you saw it...I thought I was going crazy lol, or that they had "fixed" the tape. So basicallythe entire outfit was a "knockoff." And we know the BR outfit was "inspired" by the current BR line. This explains alot in terms of why Wendy was "all over the place" in her designs...even why she only made "minor adjustments" in the post office challenge. She may know how to sew, but she has no ideas of her own. Sad, sad, sad that the judges couldn't see that...and that no-one else remembered the skirt from the fabric store. But I guess it's not okay to "knock-off" another designer (as in the case of Alexandra) but it's perfectly okay to lift an idea from a little fabric store shop girl.
Somuchforthat
February 21, 2005 - 03:44 AM
Yep, no question about it. It was to Tim's right (our left) for at least two seconds, even without pausing the tape. Some kind of halter top and floofy skirt, all in orange. The USPS challenge was only a few days before the Grammy challenge, so everyone who was at the store should have seen the mannequin, including Tim.
I wish someone from the shop or the show could (or would) verify this. ESPECIALLY Tim who stood right next to it.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 03:44 AM
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Funny too when someone hasn't seen any of the episodes. If you ask me, Kara was Wendy's best friend for half the shows at least. Only after Kevin's elimination (the USPS show) did she revise her thinking. Then the fabric thing. Now she's angry and has come around to other people's views. And she's pushing back. Funny how these Defendies want to portray it as something else, as if it's unjustified and/or comes from no context/provocation at all.
lk
Kind of like Wendy herself. Or have you noticed that already?
Somuchforthat
February 21, 2005 - 03:49 AM
Oops! The mannequin with the Grammy award winning inspiration outfit was to Tim's left and our right. Still, you can't miss that flamin' orange! I think that PR owes the shop designer responsible for that mannequin display a collection at Fashion Week next season.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 04:13 AM
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Someone posted links to the FW Wire Images. Thanks, I enjoyed seeing them.
I wasn't willing to pay the $10 fee to see them enlarged. For free, the pictures of each outfit were one-inch-tall.
I liked Wendy's designs the best. Yes, really. I loved the long gowns, particularly the green one with the dark bodice, and the slinky deep-red one. I loved the risque form-fitting, and seemingly see-through, top and pants outfit. I loved the dress and jacket outfit.
Austin's red dress was stunning, but I didn't like the rest of his outfits. He was there so the viewers wouldn't be able to guess who won. He didn't have an opportunity to show his true talent.
Kara Saun's designs gave me deja vu. I felt I'd seen them all before, many times.
Jay's designs didn't appeal to me. I've already forgotten them.
So, yes, I really did like Wendy's designs the best (again, based on one-inch-tall pictures).
Well, I'm consistent, anyway.
Mel
I wasn't willing to pay the $10 either, but from what I could see, W's "designs" again were all over the place. A few of them actually didn't look half bad (the brown sort of corset-y looking one) but now I have to wonder who's sketchbook she lifted it from.
If you look at her website, her stuff is nice for prom's, country cottilions or whatever, but there is very little that's original there that I can see. Not only that but there seems to be little consisentcy between what she has done in the past, what she did on PR (that wasn't "inspired" by someone else, though she was clever not to disclose this other than the BR episode when it was more appropriate to do so,) and then what she did for FW. It's all different. The "collection" itself hardly holds together as a collection imho, if you've seen enough fashion shows at least on television and in magazines to know the difference.
Someone here (not on this thread) called Austin a "one trick pony" saying he does the same thing over and over again. Well in that context, one could say the same for Betsy Johnson..or Diane Von Furstenberg..or even Ralph Lauren. Designers become sought after when they have a vision and "personal style" that carries over from outfit to outfit within a collection, from season to season, from year to year. Despite her experience as a dressmaker with maybe a little bit of design work in terms of "personal touches" as seen in the postal episode, W seems to have done very little in the way of developing her own personal style or vision.
I've drawn the visual artist and designer analogies a couple of times, so here I'll do it again. When I was a young girl, my cousin and her mom would send me things they'd clipped from magazines for me to draw/replicate. Once they sent me a Normal Rockwell painting to draw, which I copied for them. They thought I was this great artist because I could make my drawing look exactly like the Norman Rockwell. And even then I didn't feel comfortable with it. An artist or designer needs to develop their own voice and style to be respected and hopefully sought after...not just be capable of replicating others voices and styles with a "few personal touches." Can a person make a living doing that in fashion? Sure, there are designer knock-offs everywhere. But they don't delude themselves into thinking or try to claim publicly their designs make them worthy of being "the next great American designer."
Somuchforthat
February 21, 2005 - 04:24 AM
Exactly!
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 04:44 AM
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Oops! The mannequin with the Grammy award winning inspiration outfit was to Tim's left and our right. Still, you can't miss that flamin' orange! I think that PR owes the shop designer responsible for that mannequin display a collection at Fashion Week next season.
Oh, I have my own personal admittedly naughty theory about that lol. The set up is where she is looking at skins with the shop girl, choosing the orange one after the girl tells her that yes, orange looks good on camera.
Shopgirl: Yes, this is a great color. In fact, we have some feather boas at the other end of the store that match this exactly!"
W: Really? But what would you do with feathers?
Shopgirl: "Oh everything. I've seen a lot of people make purses with them, and just the other day I made a skirt from one. It's totally adorable and on a mannequin over by the door. You want to see it?"
W to herself: "Hmmmm, I haven't gotten the skirt part figured out yet."
W to the shopgirl: "So do you think a feather skirt would be "hip" and "cool"?"
Shopgirl: "Oh yes. It would make a really cool club skirt. If you want to use the idea, I totally don't mind as long as you give me a credit or something. Or maybe you could give me a job as an assistant or whatever and get me out of this minimum wage job hell."
W: "Sure sweetie, I'll try to help you. I doubt I'll do the skirt, but you're so nice, maybe you can just show me where those feather boas are and I'll try to do something with them."
W to herself: "Uppity little trollop, trying to blackmail me. I would have totally thought up that idea on my own. Maybe I'll just add a few "personal touches" to my skirt so she won't notice, just in case."
aguynamedWayne
February 21, 2005 - 04:46 AM
" As a faithful NY fashionista, I picked up my daily copy of the NY Post (In New York City, it's like the bible, when it comes to who and what, is hot. It's all about Page6), and I was thrilled to open the paper to a FULL PAGE SPREAD including a (again full page) picture of Austin!!!! The interview was great, it seems that, as speculated on these boards, Austin wasn't given even half the time and money to make his line to show at Fashion Week, as the three finalists were. Given that obvious disadvantage, he still managed to get some approving nods from the "Power Fashionistas" in NYC. Austin is absolutely noble, though he must be, obviously, dissapointed by not making the final three; he is very complimentary, when he gives his views of the Final Three and thier line's at Fashion week (And when I say he was complimentary to all three, I mean it, He was quite kind in his critique of Wendy, as well as Jay, and Kara). In the end he thinks Jay will win, but still thinks it's anbodys best guess, because Bravo has kept them all in the dark.
I'm blown away, not only by this young man's talent, but also his kind and diplomatic professionalism. I think we will all be seeing a lot more of Austin Scarlet(and isn't that a wonderful thing!!!!!) "
Wayne's Whirled
I thought I would repost this in case anyone missed it. If you live in NYC, it comes from the NY Post sunday, Feb, 20 edition. And starts on the front page of the Style section. NY Post does have an on-line edition (www.NYPost.com), but it usually runs behind the paper by a few days, for as of this posting the on-line addition is not showing the article yet. Maybe try again in a day or so. (also a bit of caution, though the NY Post is considered "the bible" as to what is hot in NYC, the actual paper itself (News, Opinion, Editorials, etc, is known to be of a Right-Wing Slant (think Fox news). Basically in NY (an overwhelmingly Democrat-liberal state) the only way for a RightWing slanted paper to attain a high readership, is for them to have the best City, Style, and Gossip sections, of any of the other NY papers. And though I disagree strongly with their views on world events, I give them full credit, when it comes to getting the dirt, or the real skinny, in the entertainment world, they rock!
Wayne's Whirled
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 05:04 AM
Well, it's as you said in another thread Wayne, winning really doesn't matter. And yay for that!
aguynamedWayne
February 21, 2005 - 05:13 AM
Ok, one more Austin tidbit. My favorite quote from the NYPost interview
Question (NYPOST): Why did you select a Colonial Theme for your line at Fashion Week?
Answer (Austin): I decided to do an American-theme collection because, to me, American style in the early colonial era, really symbolizes the American ideal-THE PURSUIT OF FREEDOM, STANDING UP FOR YOURSELF AND FIGHTING FOR YOUR RIGHTS! I have always been criticized on the show for being too costume-y, but you know, what I like to do is put together a completely polished, finished look. Today the trend in fashion is to be slap-dash and mix and match- that's how real people interpret fashion. But I like to offer a complete package on the runway. But, I'm not about dictating fashion, either. I try to offer an idea of what I think will be an upcoming trend. I like to think of myself as something of a "Trend Forcaster". Maybe in a year or two, these kinds of ideas might be more popular."
I think Austin is on to something. With all the talk about the fight for equal rights (within the Gay community), as well as the recent bombshell that presidential historians are now admitting the Abraham Lincoln (who apparently had a four year love relationship with another man) was Gay! Modern times seem to definately be drawing some serious correlations to colonial times. Quite clever, Austin. Quite clever indeed!
Wayne's Whirled
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 05:56 AM
Now that's art imho. I think I read somewhere that Jay's collection had a quasi-political/cultural slant/theme to it, based purely on it's name. Wasn't it "stereotypes" or something like that?
zeke
February 21, 2005 - 06:08 AM
Notably, you didn't address the issue . . . rather you attempted to reframe it into an I like Wendy faction vs. the I don't like Wendy faction. Let's stay on message here: did we get cheated? Did the producers unabashedly use a "wendy" in a sophomoric attempt to over-accessorize or over-detail an already finished design? I contend absolutely. The producers did not want what they were really getting which was a cohesive group of designers supporting each other. Heidi always says it's a competitive business, one day you're in ... one day you're out. The ony way to bolster that catch phrase was with a wendy-type character. ANd, they did it. Thus, the evidence is clear---lil miss pepper is a plant. . . .(or, more likely, wendy made a deal with the devil---as you will recall from the first two episodes, in which Wendy was a luv; stating without reservation that the key to wining was supporting her family, i.e., her roomates. But, then, she made the deal with the devil post-episode two: "i'll change from being the supportive mommie type (ala first two episodes) into a conniving cold creep of a character IF you guarantee me an "in" to fashion week."
I challenge the producers of this show to prove otherwise . . . .
TomTool71
February 21, 2005 - 06:15 AM
"Many of the designers are using Wendy's competative nature to cover up for their own failings."
Right on!
Go Wendy!!
I am a conspiracy theorist and I do not believe the producers are going to let Kara win, simply because everyone thinks she will. I would love to see Wendy over Jay simply because Jay says that HORRIBLE thing to Wendy "Everybody Hates You!" That is simply rotten to the core ( and not true ) and even if it was, you simply don't say that. He is obviously very desparate. But I do believe that if Wendy doesn't win, Jay will.
The bottom line for me though is that Wendy has made it to the Top 3, which means she has already won!
Go Wendy!!
TomTool71
February 21, 2005 - 06:16 AM
"Many of the designers are using Wendy's competative nature to cover up for their own failings."
Right on!
Go Wendy!!
I am a conspiracy theorist and I do not believe the producers are NOT going to let Kara win, simply because everyone thinks she will. I would love to see Wendy over Jay simply because Jay says that HORRIBLE thing to Wendy "Everybody Hates You!" That is simply rotten to the core ( and not true ) and even if it was, you simply don't say that. He is obviously very desparate. But I do believe that if Wendy doesn't win, Jay will.
The bottom line for me though is that Wendy has made it to the Top 3, which means she has already won!
Go Wendy!!
zeke
February 21, 2005 - 06:20 AM
I actually fully expect to find Ms. Pepper's designs to be fabulous. There is no other way she could have made it onto that show. However, as I have posted elsewhere, I think the producers seduced her into turning into the wicked wendy----look at the number of posts going back and forth about her!! It's a producers' dream. Wendy was wonderful as a designer and as a player the first two episodes. Her grocery store carnivale candy design and her medussa inspired envy design were, in fact, good. I'll bet if you did not hear the judge's negative comments about them, or if their comments had been positive, no one would have challenged Wendy as a designer. The problem was, the producers had a group of designers who were competing, but they were competing within the boundaries of fair game and behaving with what we used to admire in competitions, i.e., good sportsmanship. And, as we all know, this is television, after all, and the only thing that matters is ratings. So, Wendy was pegged to turn wicked in order to add a voile a layer of sequins, a tacky rhinestone broach in order to modernize what was already a beautiful show. And, the deal was you will be in the finals if you play our way. And, we all fell for it; loving to hate the villainess. THe problem with the producers' plan is that Ms. Pepper is not a good actress. The act was so thinly veiled that even a child could see through it.
Each and every one of these designers deserved to make it to the finals. Without the intervention of the ratings needs, and if the show was viewed without the judges' commentary, I think the end would have been quite different.
I would have rathered an ending where they all rallied around each other to help whatever three made it to the finals and frankly it would not surprize me if in fact that is what actually happened.
I look forward to Wednesday, I'm sure I'm gonna love all of Kara's, Jay's, and Wicked Wendy's collections --- And, I'm going to watch without the sound of the propagandic judges' comments in my head!
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 06:37 AM
Quote:
"Many of the designers are using Wendy's competative nature to cover up for their own failings."
Right on!
Go Wendy!!
I am a conspiracy theorist and I do not believe the producers are going to let Kara win, simply because everyone thinks she will. I would love to see Wendy over Jay simply because Jay says that HORRIBLE thing to Wendy "Everybody Hates You!" That is simply rotten to the core ( and not true ) and even if it was, you simply don't say that. He is obviously very desparate. But I do believe that if Wendy doesn't win, Jay will.
The bottom line for me though is that Wendy has made it to the Top 3, which means she has already won!
Go Wendy!!
Yes, heaven forbid that this fashion reality show would actually be about fashion. There are plenty of other shows whose premise is along the lines of outlast, outplay, and outwit. ****snore*****
aguynamedWayne
February 21, 2005 - 06:53 AM
Well, as anyone who has read my posts will know, I am an Austin fan. And it would seem that everyone who comes on to these boards also has a favorite, and more than a few times on these boards, dissagreements have turned into personnal attacks and animosity (which to me is a shame, The Fashion business, though at times cut-throat, is none-the-less filled with individuals who all, in some way or another, want to bring beauty to the world. It's sad when Fashion turns ugly). So my suggestion is this: Instead of gryping and complaining, lets suggest something better. The very fact that these message boards exist, show that the producers at Bravo want input from thier viewing audience. So instead of giving them a bunch of angry diatribes, let's suggest ways to make next years' show better! And to that end, this would be my suggestion:
With one exception, keep the show in it's original format (but if the Producers of the show really are "manipulating" the final outcome, then they should stop! It's just cheap.)
The one change I would make, would be to borrow a page from American Idol, and set up a phone line-call in system, so that the viewing public could become the "3rd judge". The audience's choice could count for 1/3 of the judes score. And that way, would avoid just being a popularity contest.
Does anyone else have some positive ideas for making next season better? Please Post them.
Wayne's Whirled
Vladi
February 21, 2005 - 06:58 AM
Challenge 7 (Collection 2055):
Judges said:
- Kevin, you forgot the deconstruction idea...
- Wendy, your outfit doesn't really go with the theme...It looks like something a cat spit out after swallowing a ball of yarn...Give me no deconstruction at all over bad deconstruction....
Kevin goes, Wendy stays...
Challenge 8 (USPS uniform)
Judges said:
- Robert, your design is too casual for a post office uniform and looks a little unfinished...
-Wendy, you were asked to redesign USPS uniform, and you DID NOT DO that...You took something that they already feel doubty in, and made it worse...
Robert goes, Wendy stays.
Challenge 9 (Grammy's)
Judges said:
- Austin, your dress looks too glamorous...
-Wendy, you have too much going on in your design...You don't wear an entirely matching outfit...
Austin goes, Wendy stays.... just because of the way the challenge was organized - instead of same people judging every contestant, Bravo brought in Nancy O'Dell to select the winning outfit. I do believe that should not have happened at the last challenge when final 3 were supposed to be chosen.
Wendy had only one win...she was in the 'worst' category for challenges 1, 2, 4, 6, 7 and 8 (6 out of 9 challenges!)...and somehow she is still in, and even in the top 3.
Lately I've been having doubts about 'Project Runway' really being the search for America's next big fashion designer, and I wouldn't be very surprised if Wedny will be the winner. That would create more buzz around the show, and this is what producers want. If they can have someone like Heidi Klum hosting the show, and someone like Nina Garcia judging it - why not have Wendy pepper as a winner.
P.S. I do have to say one more thing though - in my opinion Wendy created the best dress during the wedding gown challenge. If I was ever to chose a wedding dress for someone - that's the one I would pick (however, I would rather see it entirely in white, no red).
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 07:00 AM
I'm not disagreeing with the main jist of your post, but really. You thought W's candy design was good? Sure, it may have been entirely appropriate for Carnivale...but it was supposed to be an evening wear collection. And where so many others have argued that Austins Grammy dress while good, wasn't Grammy, so he should have been eliminated.
The candy outfit was more of a bikini than anything, and maybe would have been better for the swimsuit competition, where she basically made a dress with some kind of g-string...which the model refused to wear preferring her own underpants..because W didn't know how to make a bottom. Though on the stage she lied about it saying her elastic broke or some drivel.
As for her other designs, I don't remember the envy dress now unfortunately, and for some reason episode two is no longer on the site, and I can't remember loving it or hating it. But that wedding dress? Blech!!! Sorry, but it was revolting. The BR dress? Predictable and borrowed from BR's own line...the Grammy dress again a knock off, top from one place (Nancy O's top) and bottom from another (Mode fabric store mannequin.)
I don't agree that Wendy got there on the merits of her talent alone, but I also don't feel that most of them did. They were all there to serve/fill a purpose/demographic as pulled from the pool of many probably just as worthy, some probably even more so, applicants. No doubt it was apparent that Wendy would add a certain something to the group...making an otherwise probably very ordinary person the oddball in a group of folks who in other walks of life would themselves be the oddballs, but in this context were the norm. Sort of turning the tables, if you will. Which is why I think so many of the non-creative, non-designer folks defend her so strongly. They can relate to this sort of regular person (like them) in the company of all these (what they see as) weirdos and trying to cope as a fish out of water. Like Wendy was and as many folks, who are not versed in certain areas, feel when they are plunged into them, to sink or swim.
lisakaz
February 21, 2005 - 07:01 AM
I'm sure this guy, like some other newbie posters, has never seen the other episodes. He watched maybe the last 2. The ignorance of these people is legion.
lk
lisakaz
February 21, 2005 - 07:07 AM
How many episodes have you seen? Other than the reunion show and the finale promos, Kara had never said this before. The way you state it, you'd think Kara said this every week. Kara actually had befriended Wendy and helped her with her makeup during challenge 3. Kara only woke up to Wendy's machinations after Kevin's elimination, an episode Austin called fair in its representation in that Wendy was "that evil."
lk
lisakaz
February 21, 2005 - 07:10 AM
Yeah, I noticed. Total tunnel vision. Wendy can dish it but it's okay. When she gets called and cries about it, they whine with her.
lk
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 07:10 AM
Quote:
Well, as anyone who has read my posts will know, I am an Austin fan. And it would seem that everyone who comes on to these boards also has a favorite, and more than a few times on these boards, dissagreements have turned into personnal attacks and animosity (which to me is a shame, The Fashion business, though at times cut-throat, is none-the-less filled with individuals who all, in some way or another, want to bring beauty to the world. It's sad when Fashion turns ugly). So my suggestion is this: Instead of gryping and complaining, lets suggest something better. The very fact that these message boards exist, show that the producers at Bravo want input from thier viewing audience. So instead of giving them a bunch of angry diatribes, let's suggest ways to make next years' show better! And to that end, this would be my suggestion:
With one exception, keep the show in it's original format (but if the Producers of the show really are "manipulating" the final outcome, then they should stop! It's just cheap.)
The one change I would make, would be to borrow a page from American Idol, and set up a phone line-call in system, so that the viewing public could become the "3rd judge". The audience's choice could count for 1/3 of the judes score. And that way, would avoid just being a popularity contest.
Does anyone else have some positive ideas for making next season better? Please Post them.
Wayne's Whirled
Make it about the clothes more than the personalities. Maybe take them out of the frat house ala real world and let them stay seperately, spend a little less time together, and spend a more realistic amount of time and money on clothes. Maybe not have eliminations but a points system so winners would be more overall winners than be able to rely on the luck of the draw, since consistency is a more important indicator of success than a few one hit wonders out of nowhere.
Not great TV? Oh well. Maybe PBS would do it lol.
lisakaz
February 21, 2005 - 07:15 AM
I think besides farty, the word for Wendy's design philosophy is derivative, as per the Grammy thing.
lk
nabakov5
February 21, 2005 - 07:42 AM
you know...i sat and watched the entire marathon yesterday (love rainy sundays), and after i incubated on it for a while i think i've decided that jay has a better chance to win then does kara. i like kara's designs, they are always consistantly strong and beautiful, but for fashion week, i think they are too "off the rack" looking. i feel like i can already go to a store and buy something that looks kara saun-ish, which is great, it proves that she has a very accessible style, but i think kevin was right in the reunion when he said there is a "capsule" quality to the fashion industry. if someone can look at a peice and say, without any other clues "that's a jay mccarrol!" (sp?) then they are going to have a bigger impact. isn't that how high fashion works anyway? we see the over the top designs on the runway, worn by ridiculously beautiful women, and then that design begins to trickle down into the masses, modifying itself into something that we can actually wear. its seems like jay has that "capsule" and kara doesn't. so i guess i'm casting my official vote. go for it jay! you've got it in the bag! (kisses to you kevin)
Chol26
February 21, 2005 - 07:45 AM
I am a little stunned by the quick turn of opinion about Wendy. She wasn't considered this evil B--- on the show until just a few episodes ago, and I'm not really sure why she got that reputation. The only reason I can see is that the other designers don't consider her to be as talented as they are and they are angry that she has made it to the final 3. I do not think that Wendy has in any way "sold her soul" as Kara put it, and frankly I'm saddened at Kara's holier than thou attitude. The only thing that Wendy did was, when asked her opinion of other designers on the runway, she gave her opinion. I find it ironic that Austin hasn't gotten anywhere near the flack for glomming on to Vanessa's comment that she is a bad sewer. Also, remember that in the real world, it's not always the most talented designer who wins either! Jay's style is too edgy and funky for Banana Republic. Kara seems destined to a large established fashion house in Paris. I think, for ready to wear clothing (ala the Banana Republic Challenge), Wendy would do exceptionally well.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 07:49 AM
I didn't find her BR dress all that original either. Very basic. Back in the late 80's I bought a Gillian dress just like it for an afternoon wedding, only in purple and without the satin band. Also without the cape, but she got the cape idea from the existing BR season line. Copying what's out there is easy...and if everyone did it, even people who sew with existing patterns (McCalls, Vogue, Simplicity) would be able to call themselves "designers." They just know a little less about the craft of pattern making is all.
Chol26
February 21, 2005 - 07:54 AM
I loved Wendy's BR dress, but yes, I've seen that dress sans cape in every Audrey Hepburn movie ever made. Does that make it bad design? No. The dress was her own creation and vision and it was executed well.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 08:02 AM
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I am a little stunned by the quick turn of opinion about Wendy. She wasn't considered this evil B--- on the show until just a few episodes ago, and I'm not really sure why she got that reputation. The only reason I can see is that the other designers don't consider her to be as talented as they are and they are angry that she has made it to the final 3. I do not think that Wendy has in any way "sold her soul" as Kara put it, and frankly I'm saddened at Kara's holier than thou attitude. The only thing that Wendy did was, when asked her opinion of other designers on the runway, she gave her opinion. I find it ironic that Austin hasn't gotten anywhere near the flack for glomming on to Vanessa's comment that she is a bad sewer. Also, remember that in the real world, it's not always the most talented designer who wins either! Jay's style is too edgy and funky for Banana Republic. Kara seems destined to a large established fashion house in Paris. I think, for ready to wear clothing (ala the Banana Republic Challenge), Wendy would do exceptionally well.
I think you're right. Frankly, I didn't like Wendy from episode one because of alot of the things she said, she was phoney and kind of sneaky in her actions. And I didn't really like her clothes, even the BR dress which I found boring and uninspired. But I didn't become angry about her until she managed to get herself into the final 3. For whatever reasons...whether it was some of the things she did behind the scenes to other designers, or whether she flew under the radar to use a little reality show "speak"...she clearly imho didn't deserve to be there. So I was really, really upset about that.
Watching the reruns I didn't feel as angry about her and some of the things people have pointed out about interpersonal things she'd done in previous episodes..and I could see why other people felt that maybe the others were being a little hard on her. But when it came to the final elimination episode, I just couldn't bear to rewatch when she won.
Call it TV, call it meaningless in the larger scheme of life, but I think it is just harder for some people to accept that people who don't deserve it, whose practices are unethical and underhanded towards others, still manage to come out on top. Because this doesn't only happen on reality TV, this happens in real life too. And for those of us who chose (or at least try to) behave in ways that we can feel good about, believe that our hard work will preclude the necessity to resort to the lower forms of getting ourselves ahead i.e. not like that, it is just a slap in the face...plain and simple. So I don't think it's Wendy per se...I think it's what she represents. At least that's how it is I think for me.
Chol26
February 21, 2005 - 08:06 AM
I guess my point with my last post was "What is original design?" - I don't think anything Jay or Kara or Austin has done is truly original or revolutionary.
Chol26
February 21, 2005 - 08:20 AM
To be honest, I don't know if I want any of the 3 left to win. I was a Wendy fan from the beginning but more because she seemed scrappy and determined and out of her element than because I liked her designs. I've never liked anything Jay has made, he's just not my style. But I can see why people who know much more about fashion and design than I do would love him. Prior to last weeks episode I thought it was going to be a toss-up between Kara and Austin. Kara is consistently picked as the winner of the challenges, and I think that's an apt way to describe her: she's consistently good. Austin is obviously not a choice anymore, although I would love to wear an Austin Scarlett dress someday. I don't think I can say that about any of the other designers.
OK, one other thing - was Vanessa drunk on the last episode? She was so beligerantly mean to Wendy and then her drink was spilled! What did Wendy do to her? Have some tact and class! Even if you don't like someone, don't accuse them of evil things just to be mean.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 08:27 AM
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I guess my point with my last post was "What is original design?" - I don't think anything Jay or Kara or Austin has done is truly original or revolutionary.
A lot more original than that BR dress. Which I agree wasn't a bad design. It was nice. It just wasn't hers. I mean, can you point to anything she's done anywhere that looks anything like that dress? I haven't been able to.
Now take on the other hand Austin. You said I think in the other post that the BR dress was sort of Audrey Hepburn? Remember in the swimwear challenge, Austin talked about being inspired by images of someone ...oh I can't remember her name... and Michael Kors in the end picked up on the reference. But the design was unmistakably...for better or worse...Austin.
As for Kara and Jay, I think they are probably just more contemporary and edgey. And even if there are commonalities there with other more contemporary and edgey designers, there is consistency among there own designs that are recognizable as their own..where I didn't find that with Wendy. Everything was different. She tried wildly creative, assymetrical hemlines, sweet and demure, and cute and sassy. It was more like the variety you would find in a womens department store among different "designers" than a collection of one designer...you know?
Does that make her a "bad designer?" If her designs were all original from her own head, which I don't think they were, but if they were...no, it doesn't make her a "bad designer." It just to me means that she doesn't have the potential to be the "next great American designer" as the show was supposed to be about, and would be more suited to making clothes the way she has been doing, working in ready to wear for a department store, or as a junior designer for someone until she developed more. None of which are bad options, just different. That's all.
ShuoHan
February 21, 2005 - 08:32 AM
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I loved Wendy's BR dress, but yes, I've seen that dress sans cape in every Audrey Hepburn movie ever made. Does that make it bad design? No. The dress was her own creation and vision and it was executed well.
You've seen it everywhere in movies that are a tad older than Wendy herself. Indeed it is a good design, and indeed, Wendy created this edition of the dress and nothing fell off of it on camera, so maybe the execution was above Wendy's average- but vision? There is a difference between being able to see something (and copy it) and having Vision.
Her fashion hindsight is 20/20, I'll give her that. And, if you must just flat out copy a style, the Audrey Hepburn films are at least a classic and classy copy.
All "personality" aside, she is just not a good designer (pardon me if that's already been stated....ehm...).
Someone suggested ways to make season two better- I liked all the ideas except for the having a call-in line, but only because that would make it a personality contest indeed. Also, there is such a lag time between filming and showing that it is not feasable. Maybe having two designers and an "actual person" judging or a designer, a model and an "actual person". Or a ranking by points without eliminating anyone until the final episode before the Fashion Week or equivalent when the top three go on to glory and the bottom three are dressed in burlap and have ashes heaped on their heads.
marmie
February 21, 2005 - 08:46 AM
From Episode 1, Wendy has been a true reality show participant. Calculating, underhanded, using people as it suits her, doing whatever it takes to create controversy. Would we watch the show if this element was missing, if all was bland and peaches and cream or parties and champagne with everyone hugging each other? I think not. If we have to hate the "evil" one on the show, let it be Wendy. She's an uninspired designer and even her wins were crap. The only reason she won anything is because the other designers were equally bad in those particular episodes.
Chol26
February 21, 2005 - 08:59 AM
I don't agree that Wendy has been calculating since the beginning at all. I've seen every episode numerous times and I stand by my earlier post that people just don't like her because she's made it this far with what they deem is a lack of talent. No one person, created or real, is all bad all the time. I think people are looking at those old episodes with the perspective of knowing how much Wendy becomes hated later. I'm not saying she's a Great American Designer, or that she should win either. But I do think there is a lot of "created drama" on these reality shows (which is why I SWORE I would not get involved in this one, and here I am!) If people want to hate Wendy, that is certainly their right, but be honest with yourself about why you feel so vehemently towards her. It's not because she's a horrible person or did horrible things, it's because you deem her not as good as some other designer and thus not deserving of her spot in the final runway show.
Chinchilla3
February 21, 2005 - 09:06 AM
Great article on Madame Wendy from the NY Post! Hehehe! (Sorry! My double expresso's kicking in!!!)
http://www.nypost.com/entertainment/40207.htm
BoyzMom
February 21, 2005 - 09:12 AM
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I guess my point with my last post was "What is original design?" - I don't think anything Jay or Kara or Austin has done is truly original or revolutionary.
A lot more original than that BR dress. Which I agree wasn't a bad design. It was nice. It just wasn't hers. I mean, can you point to anything she's done anywhere that looks anything like that dress? I haven't been able to.
This was a great question so (as a former designer/student) I wanted to go back and select a few items that I think truly represent the best of DESIGN - construction, details, use of materials, etc.
The first one that came to mind is Jay's BR dress. Gorgeous and original. You've never seen that dress anywhere before and he pulled his inspiration from the Chrysler Building. Brilliant!
Obviously Austin's corn husk dress belongs here because he took unique materials and crafted them into something very *intentional* - the vertical flow of the husks in the bodice making them almost look like pleats. I couldn't achieve that look with FABRIC let alone corn husks!
Nora's innovation dress would receive an honorable mention because it's another brilliant interpretation and execution of the materials on a familiar silhouette, and ditto for Robert's envy outfit. I thought Austin and Kevin's BR outfits were quite beautiful and well-executed.
For the wedding gowns, Jay and Kara both did gorgeous silhouettes that are not often used. Either looked appropriate for an established celebrity to wear (because let's face it, most of us in my age group - 30something - probably wore something similar to Nora's ). They were elegant, appropriate, glamourous and were infused with each designers own style and vision.
The bathing suit challenge - Wendy's top was quite beautiful but shouldn't have been considered without (I think angeedee puts it so well) the 'drawers'. Austin's was stunning and a fabulous example of good design - taking a silhouette and creating a twist to make it uniquely YOU. Like it or not, Jay's paid homage to other design styles but was still him. And I loved Kevin's - it was very sexy and very cool.
I hated the 2055 challenge so I'll skip that one
Ditto for the postal challenge
The Grammy episode - what an uninspiring client!!! If the client were Beyonce - Austin hands down. That dress he did was stunning and fierce. If the client was Gwen Stefani - probably Jay's. I thought the top looked fine (a little to similar to other Jay creations but I didn't find anything 'matronly' about it). Perhaps he didn't want to do a deconstructed top and have too much going on. If the client was Alicia Keys or Norah Jones, Kara's would have been the choice. And for Nancy Odell, invisible (so she wanted to be) interviewer of the stars. . .Wendy.
Sorry for the long diatribe - can't wait for Wednesday.
Twitchly
February 21, 2005 - 09:27 AM
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If people want to hate Wendy, that is certainly their right, but be honest with yourself about why you feel so vehemently towards her. It's not because she's a horrible person or did horrible things, it's because you deem her not as good as some other designer and thus not deserving of her spot in the final runway show.
OK, being completely honest with myself, I dislike Wendy NOT because I don't think she's as good as another designer but because I truly do think she's a manipulative sociopath. I rooted for her for about the first half of the series, even though my husband had her figured out after the second show. Then she pulled her nasty little stunt with Morgan, and I realized what she was made of. Sorry; you can't speak for me on this one. I dislike her because she really *is* a horrible person who does horrible things.
MissingPR
February 21, 2005 - 09:32 AM
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I don't agree that Wendy has been calculating since the beginning at all. I've seen every episode numerous times and I stand by my earlier post that people just don't like her because she's made it this far with what they deem is a lack of talent. No one person, created or real, is all bad all the time. I think people are looking at those old episodes with the perspective of knowing how much Wendy becomes hated later. I'm not saying she's a Great American Designer, or that she should win either. But I do think there is a lot of "created drama" on these reality shows (which is why I SWORE I would not get involved in this one, and here I am!) If people want to hate Wendy, that is certainly their right, but be honest with yourself about why you feel so vehemently towards her. It's not because she's a horrible person or did horrible things, it's because you deem her not as good as some other designer and thus not deserving of her spot in the final runway show.
I disagree. From episode one she talked about strategy a la survivor, unrelated to working her hardest, coming up with the best designs etc. And no, I didn't say to myself "oooh, who is the mean Wendy person everyone is talking about" and go back to view the old episodes via marathons. I watched the shows from day one, without virtue of message boards or chat rooms or articles or blogs. In fact, I only found this place the Friday (I think) after missing the Grammy challenge. I happened to run across an article on MSN about Fashion Week that mentioned PR, and thinking I might find a clue as to who had won, came here, found the boards, and began reading.
Honestly, I was so dissappointed to find out when I got here that Wendy had made it over Austin that I almost didn't watch the rerun that Sunday. But because I stuck around and read some of the other posts here, I decided to view it, watch the reunion, and stick around for the final episode.
So trust me. I was alone through all this and had my opinions about Wendy long before coming here. And I don't think many people...intelligent adult people anyway...develop their moral and ethical sensibilities from reading message boards. Nor do they decide what they like or don't like by what others or judges say, despite what someone else suggested elsewhere. But I agree, no one person is bad all the time. At least I hope that isn't the case.
Twitchly
February 21, 2005 - 09:38 AM
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If being a "[expletive deleted]" can get you where you want to be, what is wrong with that?
Nothing, I suppose, if you have no conscience. Remind me not to live in your world.
BoyzMom
February 21, 2005 - 09:40 AM
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I don't agree that Wendy has been calculating since the beginning at all. I've seen every episode numerous times and I stand by my earlier post that people just don't like her because she's made it this far with what they deem is a lack of talent. No one person, created or real, is all bad all the time. I think people are looking at those old episodes with the perspective of knowing how much Wendy becomes hated later. I'm not saying she's a Great American Designer, or that she should win either. But I do think there is a lot of "created drama" on these reality shows (which is why I SWORE I would not get involved in this one, and here I am!) If people want to hate Wendy, that is certainly their right, but be honest with yourself about why you feel so vehemently towards her. It's not because she's a horrible person or did horrible things, it's because you deem her not as good as some other designer and thus not deserving of her spot in the final runway show.
Chol26, all you have to do is look at the woman's own website where she, in her own words, describes her underhanded 'strategy' to 'defeat' the others and make it to Fashion Week. She embarrassed herself and disgraced an entire freaking demographic (many of whom post here) by acting like she is at such a disadvantage because of her *age* and her position in life (a mother).
My beef with her is simple. She is not a designer. If you took Wendy and placed her with a randomly selected group of people, you could say she is talented. But when you put her into a group of *designers*, she doesn't belong. (I felt the same about Starr).
I guess the producers got what they wanted but man do I feel manipulated! If Tommy Hilfiger (sp?) does a show about design with its ultimate prize to design a line for him, I will most certainly watch it as I can't imagine they would play for pure drama instead of talent with something like that at stake. Of course I thought the same about this show and Fashion Week.
SuchaSwine
February 21, 2005 - 09:42 AM
I'm new at posting here but I've become a raving fanatic about this show. First, I need to know what deconstructing and tweaking are. It's always mentioned and I have no idea what they're talking about. Now to the nitty griiy. I didn't care for Wendy for a long time. She was such a drama queen but I suppose all that emotion developed because of her insecurity having to compete with such young designers. Once she stopped crying her eyes out and really started to win, it was another story. She got her act together and her confidence back and the hell with everyone else. I always liked Jay but you don't go on TV and show such nastiness to your oppenent (Wendy) and say, "I really hate Wendy). That was class thrown out the window. Jay's funny all right but humor and wit won't win him this contest. He also should have read Kara Saun the riot act for demembering his beautiful top with the layered and redesigning that skirt with that God-awfull top. He should have left the top the way he originally planned. I suppose Kara Saun got a little starry-eyed and believed she was qualified to know what was best. No one should have helped any of the others with their designs. You could tell Jay was more than upset when the winners were announced on the runway and he turned to Kara and appeared to have wanted to throw her off the runray. Maybe they've both learned a lesson now. My impression of Jay is declining as he picks too much on Wendy. There's a great difference between coming off as a vicious queen and a humorious personality. My advice is to concentrate on your designs and forgot dishing Wendy and especially in front of her. Dissension is no good for a creative atmosphere. Some other cruel things blaringly done to her were when the 3 of them were walking in the street and Wendy was behind them and no one offered to have her join the group. ( I was an outsider when I was young and beloieve me, the hurt always gets through. ) The when Kara Saun won or was told she could stay in, Kara Saun kissed everyone and walked right passed Wendy. Generous Kara Saun is not. And who couldn't love Austin. Outrageous, gorgeous hair, funny, intelligent,tremendous self-confidence, a very empathic person and dangerously close to anorexia. His designs however didn't mirror his enormous talent. His ego ruled his designs as if he were designing for himself instead of following the project given. I did that once at the School of Visual Arts and got an F. I feel sorry that he was let go, but he had to be. Robert should have been let go and earlier too. It seemed as if he was there for the fun of it. He's no designer. The eventual winner? Don't be surprised if it's Wendy. She's pulled a lot of tricks out of bag before. Jay can hold it together 1st off, if doesn't listen to Kara Saun, displays confidence in his designs with a theme throughout. I hate using animal fur to trim someone's coat etc, but try it. I haven't seen all of the prior shows so maybe a little black dress would be a good project and a difficult one too. As for Kara Saun, make it simple. You have a tendency to over dress your models. Know when to stop. and lastly, John Gunn has so much to offer students at PSD. What a nice, knowledgable and patient man.
Regards,
SuchASwine
ericats
February 21, 2005 - 09:52 AM
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Wendy can be bitchy, but I am tired of Kara always wagging her finger in peoples faces and telling others they "have no soul"
Always? People? She has said it twice to one person.
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I predict that Wendy will win.
If the show wants to lose even more credibility the producers might pick her to win. Doubt it though because the reviews of her collection at FW were quite unkind (I'm being gracious here, the reviewers shredded her; a sampling of what they said: "cheesy," "unprofessional" [regarding the zipper that was hanging from one of her dresses], and "a housewife from VA and it shows.")
lisakaz
February 21, 2005 - 10:00 AM
Her uncooperative nature comes out in the first collaboration, as stated by someone who talks about fabric selection. Then there's her expression with this challenge. But her Survivor mentality came out from episode 1. It's more obvious looking back with her roommates as a tribe schtick and exploiting knowledge of people.
I saw it WAY before Kevin was eliminated. Jay supposedly is "mean" for telling her everybody hates you, but it is accurate and deserved. She brought it on herself and thinks otherwise.
lk
SuchaSwine
February 21, 2005 - 10:01 AM
If people hate Wendy, it's some of Wendy's fault but mainly a woman over 40 or nearing 40 shouldn't be allowed with youngsters who have such 'new bright ideas'. And she has a kid too! The worst sin of course--she's from THE SOUTH!!!!!!!!! She's destined to fail, but not so huh? She's winning a lot. Has jealously entered the fray? Look, Wendy's never going to be a great Paris designer but she has a place in this country for cocktail dresses, sportswear, business suits etc. And maybe some jewelry. That's not bad is it? A lot of potential designers would give anything to do that.