paillette
January 9, 2005 - 12:21 PM
If anything, your order-of-elimination data only shows that the elimination is done randomly. It doesn't show anything about the relative status of the "runner-up" group at all. Austin was the best of the worst -- third from the bottom, just above Robert and Starr, the two who were kept longest. But he still was in the worst group. I don't think any of the judges said anything remotely positive about his design -- we heard things like "costumey," "didn't listen to the challenge," and the now-classic, "I don't know if real women would want to wear all that frou-frou."
Again, even if you forcefully disagree and think those judgements are grossly unfair, the fact is, the judges making the rankings didn't care for the design. I can't see how you could think that the judges were putting him in the "best" group, given their remarks.
And in fact I CAN change my mind about Austin, if he ever does something I like (aside from the cornhusk dress, which I did like, but which doesn't really count in my book since it is unwearable for technical reasons). That's the reason I have consistently conceded that he's talented: he could surprise me yet.
ThomsTeddyBear
January 9, 2005 - 12:49 PM
Quote:
If anything, your order-of-elimination data only shows that the elimination is done randomly. It doesn't show anything about the relative status of the "runner-up" group at all. Quote:
And the judges have never said anything about the relative status of any of the others other than the winners and those they've selected for elimination.
You're own words:
"But for the benefit of discussion: Usually 6 people are kept on stage: 3 best/3 worst. [said who?] Then there is 1 winner/1 loser, leaving 2 "runners up" apiece in the best and worst categories. [again, said who?]All these "runners-up" get to stay "in" -- only the absolute lowest score, loser actually leaves. But that doesn't change the fact that 2 people who get to stay were placed in the "worst" category - and that's where Austin was in the BR challenge." (<----nice try there)
I'll post my findings again - let's count!:
"Ok, here it is via ACTUAL VIDEO TAPE in the order they were sent off stage:
Challenge 1 - Innovation:
1. Vanessa, 2. Nora, 3. Wendy, 4. Austin (4TH OFF STAGE - winner)
Judges said they felt these were two weakest - 5. Starr, 6. Daniel (out)
Challenge 2 - Envy (Austin off with qualifying group):
1. Robert, 2. Starr, 3. Kara (winner)
Judges felt these were the three weakest - 4. Nora, 5. Wendy, 6. Mario (out)
Challenge 3 - Banana Republic:
1. Jay, 2. Austin SECOND OFF STAGE), 3. Wendy (winner), 4. Alexandra
Judges said they felt these were the two weakest - 5. Robert, 6. Starr (out)
Challenge 4 - Rock-n-Roll:
1. Kevin (winner), 2. Wendy, 3. Alexandra, 4. Austin (4TH OFF STAGE)
Judges said these were the two weakest contestans - 5. Nora, 6. Vanessa (out)"
So when I laid out the order they were sent off stage, it was literal.
Again, even if you forcefully disagree and think those judgements are grossly unfair, the fact is, the judges making the rankings didn't care for the design. I can't see how you could think that the judges were putting him in the "best" group, given their remarks.
And in fact I CAN change my mind about Austin, if he ever does something I like (aside from the cornhusk dress, which I did like, but which doesn't really count in my book since it is unwearable for technical reasons). That's the reason I have consistently conceded that he's talented: he could surprise me yet.
That would make him 4th off in Innovation as winner leaving 2 worst on stage
...off with the qualifying group in the Envy challenge leaving 3 in after him and 3 worst on stage
...off 2nd in the Banana Republic challenge - leaving 2 after him and 2 worst on stage
...off 4th in the Rock challenge leaving 2 worst on stage
So what does all this mean? It means your logic is flawed in regards to people thinking he "bottomed out" twice.
ThomsTeddyBear
January 9, 2005 - 12:54 PM
And with that, that's enough brainwork for now - I'm not ending my html tags! Geez, I feel like I'm back in college! Too bad you can't meet my favorite teacher, he'd love you, he likes debate stuff - I was forced into it, lol Time for laundry, supper, and making sure child's homework is done for tomorrow. If I don't see you later, I'll see you tomorrow!
TTB
paillette
January 9, 2005 - 12:59 PM
I don't doubt that you are giving the correct order of their being asked to leave the stage, I'm just not following your logic about what that means. I don't "get" how you're using the order-of-elimination data in support of your argument that Austin was not among the lowest ranked in that challenge.
What significant pattern are you seeing in this?
I see the winner sometimes going first, or fourth, or third... it looks random to me, but if I'm missing something, then please explain what it is.
corprip
January 9, 2005 - 01:29 PM
Austin was the best of the worst in the Banana Republic challenge, meaning he was among the worst twice so far. Alexandra was judged to be better than him. However, I do agree with the statement that the producers will keep Austin on longer than the judges will.
GypsyMoongal
January 9, 2005 - 01:32 PM
Well--- in the vein of "who do you think will make it to the top 3".... I would pick:
Jay
Austin
KaraSaun
And of the 3 -- frankly; I think KaraSaun will win. She has been the most consistantly good and praised of the designers.
Having said that .... I am rooting for Jay. Gotta love him ! I love his personality -- love ( most ) all of his designs ( not the first one ); and I think he is "playing the game" of the show very well. He doesn't get overly upset; he has a good sense of humor... etc.
Austin's designs are wonderful. Very very pretty, very romantic, and very period-styling. I personally love them; ( and wish I could wear them ), but I don't think it will make him the winner.
Just my 2 cents.....
GypsyMoongal
January 9, 2005 - 01:38 PM
Don't you think that the show producers/ judges will take into account the popularity of the dresses on the Bravo website ? Austin's and Jay's desgins may not have won their particular challenges; but they are certainly tops in the eyes of the viewers; and in $$$ bids.
paillette
January 9, 2005 - 03:26 PM
Quote:
Don't you think that the show producers/ judges will take into account the popularity of the dresses on the Bravo website ? Austin's and Jay's desgins may not have won their particular challenges; but they are certainly tops in the eyes of the viewers; and in $$$ bids.
This might make sense, except it's my understanding that all the individual episodes were filmed, judged, and edited some time ago, before the message board and auctions were up and running. I could be wrong, but isn't that the way these shows usually work?
paillette
January 9, 2005 - 03:28 PM
Quote:
Austin was the best of the worst in the Banana Republic challenge, meaning he was among the worst twice so far. Alexandra was judged to be better than him. However, I do agree with the statement that the producers will keep Austin on longer than the judges will.
That's my sense of the BR episode, too, especially give how harsh the judges were in their assessment of Austin's design.
Istya
January 9, 2005 - 03:37 PM
That's what I thought too...but only one judge really liked Alexandra's design (the Banana Republic lady)...sometimes they make you think that they're voting one way, but then they end up doing something surprising. Like, in the first challenge, they hardly said anything to Austin, but they gushed over Nora's. Going just from that, I did think Nora was going to win. I really didn't get a clear impression of whether Alexandra or Austin was the one of the "worst" in the Banana Republic episode, and I wish they would tell us on the site to eliminate confusion.
rufusblue
January 9, 2005 - 04:18 PM
I understood Austin to be the third from the bottom in the Banana Republic challenge too. Obviously Alexandra and Wendy were at the top and then the remaining three were at the bottom.
designerfan
January 9, 2005 - 06:31 PM
Hey I heard Heidi Klum bought Kevins envy dress, that’s why it was never up for auction! I heard she paid a very high price too. Does anyone know how much she paid?
Istya
January 9, 2005 - 06:42 PM
My guess is that would just be a rumor because none of the envy dresses were up for auction on the site- the people who bid for them in the silent auction on the show got them.
Vladi
January 9, 2005 - 08:11 PM
A little late, but...
WHAT IS UP WITH JUDGES CHOOSING VANESSA OVER WENDY TO BE THE ONE TO GO?!
She may not be the best, but I liked all of her creations. This time she was the one who actually tried to bring something different and fresh into Austin's design (which, let's not forget, was the worst), and all Wendy did was just sit there and agree with all of his ideas.
I always agreed with judges decision before - not this time!
6ft3LEGEND_2K5
January 9, 2005 - 08:13 PM
{ THat's so damn funny - . . I think she does really look like Cruella DeVille too . . lol lol . . oh my goodness !! lmao . . - ok, back to serious mode now -
Starr . . hmm -0 what do I say about her ? She looked like she was trying to design enough to get her by each challenge. Why ? Because her outfit she made in Episode #4 -ONE WORD : CRAPOLA. . . Starr looked like some kid in school who always got beat up for her lunch because her momma was too rich and her daddy was a wall street tycoon . . . she just looked like , to me, a girl who didn't really know what she was doing there . .I mean - have you EVER really noticed her face . . ??? - She looked like she was hit by headlights of a Ford F-150 all day, every day. . .dayumm . . !!! -
Hmm . ..who else ? Austin - OF COURSE, WE CANNOT SEEM TO STOP TALKING ABOUT HIM . ( I could talk about the pretty boy, Robert, but why - let HIM talk about himself . .lol )
Austin , for the most part, lately , seems to be giving too much of the typical gay designer dramathon . . I mean really- we know most of the great designers are gay - but THIS . . truly a lil too much outrageous. Now, I don't know if they tell him to bring the gayness up a notch of two, or three. . .or SIX - but uh . . Austin, baby- Honey,Darling - please . . three words : PULL IT TOGETHER.
THIS IS A COMPETITION, PEOPLE. No one really cares to see the tears, the " Oh my Gawd, stop the camera this is too much " scenes on here- I am SERIOUSLY into Fashion Design ( I LOVE to design clothes - I LOVE making my designs . . ) Honey, I have PRAYED bout a show like this - but really, people.
If I suspect correctly that almost 3/4 of the people in here are also in fashion, or are pursuing a career in it,then it is safe to say we already know the following :
FASHION IS, AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN, AND SHALL FOREVER REMAIN - A COMPETITION.
DESIGNING CLOTHES IS NOT ABOUT CRYING ABOUT WHO YOU HAVE TO VOTE OFF. . . IT'S ABOUT MAKING CLOTHES THAT SET TRENDS. . .IT'S ABOUT CREATING CLOTHING THAT IS DARING, STYLISH, ELEGANT, RISKE`, AND MOST OF ALL - WEARABLE . . . EVEN IF IT IS WORN FOR JUST ONE NIGHT , IT STILL HAS TO BE WEARABLE AFTER IT COMES OFF THE RUNWAY . . . ANYONE in FASHION should know this . .
I MUST SAY - AS MUCH AS I LOVE KARA'S DESIGNS, AND PROFESSIONALISM, AND REALISM, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT THEY WILL AWARD THE PRIZES TO HER - WHY ? BECAUSE SHE IS ALREADY AN ESTABLISHED DESIGNER ( FOR GOD'S SAKE SHE ALREADY HAS A CELEBRITY CLIENT LISTING . . . DUH- SHE IS a DESIGNER who already has her label going . .DUUUHHHH . . .)
Jay- hmm . . what what WHAT can I say about him ?
He's like . . Kid Rock meets Ron Jeremy ( in terms of the body fat from Ron Jeremy, of course . . lol !! ) . . lol - no seriously, JAY is like a man-gina king. . . .but kinda kewl in some ways. . his design described as " A 2050 hooker from the future " . . damn , if that's not wordage of a true [expletive deleted] king, I dunno what is . . lol . ..He talks like he has been around too many richy rich girls and too many gay-o-ramas ( those are people who PURPOSELY advertise their gayness and force it on others . . ex: " Hi, I'm Mauricio, and I am soooo . . like soo so gay- you must be my [expletive deleted] ; pleasure to meet you, Bitchella . . I'm Bitcharro !! . . lol -
ctimothymiller
January 9, 2005 - 09:25 PM
Does anyone else find Austin Scarlett(real name I am sure, as it certainly doesn't sound like a harlequin romance dandy), the most offensive character to come around in a long time, or is it just me? As a gay man, I find everything he does on the show to be offensive and all of his actions appear to be pre-planned from his pursed lip- bugged eyed gazes, to his little lady-slink off of the runway after the judging segment. He just reminds me so much of the lead character from 'Waiting for Guffman,' who was the epitome of what every small town gay guy think he is supposed to act like when he gets to the big, sophisticated city. Like the character in Guffman, I see big things in some small town community theatre group for this joker!
ThomsTeddyBear
January 9, 2005 - 09:31 PM
Back before bed...*YAAAWWWNNN!"
Ok, once more - this is what you said:
"But for the benefit of discussion: Usually 6 people are kept on stage: 3 best/3 worst. said who?] Then there is 1 winner/1 loser, leaving 2 "runners up" apiece in the best and worst categories. [again, said who?]All these "runners-up" get to stay "in" -- only the absolute lowest score, loser actually leaves. But that doesn't change the fact that 2 people who get to stay were placed in the "worst" category - and that's where Austin was in the BR challenge." (<---nice try)
Your next post says:
"I don't doubt that you are giving the correct order of their being asked to leave the stage, I'm just not following your logic about what that means. I don't "get" how you're using the order-of-elimination data in support of your argument that Austin was not among the lowest ranked in that challenge.
What significant pattern are you seeing in this?
I see the winner sometimes going first, or fourth, or third... it looks random to me, but if I'm missing something, then please explain what it is."
Your first post states an order, then in your next post you say it's random, which is what my post was about all along. Not only that, my data wasn't just about the winner, it was about the group and the random placement of them as a whole. If you were just talking about who won, then we're on two different tracks.
Which leaves the question - who says there is a particular way they are taken from the stage (barring those who recieve the explanation then the "in" or "out") since there was no posting about it by Bravo, no explanation from the judges how they take them off, nor any pattern? The bolded statement seems to keep getting skipped so I thought I'd make it stand out this time.
I think I've proven my side quite well via video tape. It's now your turn and I will openly look at any factual evidence you provide...hopefully you caught the shows on tape too, then we can compare the segments.
Night night
TTB
P.S.
This color is called "ThomsTeddyBear"
This color is called "Paillete"
The mods that be do some pretty cool stuff sometimes.
ThomsTeddyBear
January 9, 2005 - 09:46 PM
Quote:
Does anyone else find Austin Scarlett(real name I am sure, as it certainly doesn't sound like a harlequin romance dandy), the most offensive character to come around in a long time, or is it just me? As a gay man, I find everything he does on the show to be offensive and all of his actions appear to be pre-planned from his pursed lip- bugged eyed gazes, to his little lady-slink off of the runway after the judging segment. He just reminds me so much of the lead character from 'Waiting for Guffman,' who was the epitome of what every small town gay guy think he is supposed to act like when he gets to the big, sophisticated city. Like the character in Guffman, I see big things in some small town community theatre group for this joker!
Yup, it's his real name. So...you hate him because he acts feminine in nature. Hmmm...and people hate you because you're gay (unless you're in a REALLY accepting part of the world). Interesting.
Here's a little something from a song for you and Austin and for those who don't like you both:
"I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately.
All I have to do is think of me and I have peace of mind.
I'm tired of looking 'round rooms wondering what I gotta do,
Or who I'm supposed to be.
I don't want to be anything other than me!"
ctimothymiller
January 9, 2005 - 10:40 PM
Austin is the worst! Like Step 'N' Fetchit and Mammy, caricatures are not always the best way to represent a group of people. It is unfortunate that people feel that being gay should force one to choose a "role" to play. From the hairnets and hair clips to the sassy pirate outfits to the REALLY theatrical crying fit, this clown is all a facade and a creature of his own design. He can't be booted soon enough for me so he can get on with his career designing for drag queens or small town theatre troops. Away you poof!
texturetwo
January 10, 2005 - 02:46 AM
I WAS OUT OF TOWN AND I JUST GOT TO SEE THE LAST EPISODE. I CANNOT BELEIVE VANESSA IS NO LONGER ON THE SHOW. I AM SO DISAPPOINTED BECAUSE SHE WAS THE REASON I KEPT WATCHING THE SHOW. FROM WHAT I SAW, I THINK SHE IS SO TALENTED, FUN, SWEET, DOWN-TO-EARTH, AND SEXY! HAS ANY BODY BEEN TO HER WEBSITE (WWW.VANESSARILEY.COM)? IT IS AMAZING! SHE OBVIOUSLY HAS BEEN WORKING AS A REAL DESIGNER FOR A WHILE. HER SITE IS VERY INSPIRING. SHE INSPIRES ME TO MAKE GREAT THINGS, CREATIVLY. I HOPE SHE DOESN'T LET BEING ELIMINATED FROM THIS SHOW HURT HER BECAUSE I KNOW SHE IS BIGGER THAN THIS SHOW - I HOPE SHE REALIZES THAT! SOOOOOO DISAPPOINTED!!! WELL, I SUPPOSE THERE'S ALWAYS THE RE-RUNS! AND THANKS FOR THE LINK TO THE FANTASTIC PHOTOS - I THINK THESE ARE PHOTOS FROM THE LAUNCH PARTY IN NEW YORK, DOES ANYBODY KNOW FOR SURE? :
http://clients.clearnoodle.com/vanessariley/runway/CHEERS!
ThomsTeddyBear
January 10, 2005 - 06:45 AM
Quote:
Austin is the worst! Like Step 'N' Fetchit and Mammy, caricatures are not always the best way to represent a group of people. It is unfortunate that people feel that being gay should force one to choose a "role" to play. From the hairnets and hair clips to the sassy pirate outfits to the REALLY theatrical crying fit, this clown is all a facade and a creature of his own design. He can't be booted soon enough for me so he can get on with his career designing for drag queens or small town theatre troops. Away you poof!
Rather than going around in circles...
"I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately.
All I have to do is think of me and I have peace of mind.
I'm tired of looking 'round rooms wondering what I gotta do,
Or who I'm supposed to be.
I don't want to be anything other than me!"
Some peope just can't stand it when a person is actually being themselves. Love them, hate them - how extreme one expresses it usually has some connection to that one's subconscious. Not being psychoanalytical - I hate shrinks.
[Not pointing fingers either, just observations made over the years]
paillette
January 10, 2005 - 07:38 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Austin is the worst! Like Step 'N' Fetchit and Mammy, caricatures are not always the best way to represent a group of people. It is unfortunate that people feel that being gay should force one to choose a "role" to play. From the hairnets and hair clips to the sassy pirate outfits to the REALLY theatrical crying fit, this clown is all a facade and a creature of his own design. He can't be booted soon enough for me so he can get on with his career designing for drag queens or small town theatre troops. Away you poof!
TTB, I gotta work today, so I'll be quieter. But I think we were arguing on different tracks. I was trying to point out that all the designers in any challenge are all ranked in some way; they first eliminate the middle ground and keep a best/worst group of 6, etc. etc. I don't think the order in which that group of six is asked to leave the stage gives us any clues to how those six are ranked. But I think the judges' comments DO let us know who was ranked best and worst in that group, and I think it is clear that the judges criticized, not praised, AUstin's design.
But I give up. I like chatting with you, but it's also frustrating because you seem to be unable to seriously consider another point of view. I have conceded some good things about Austin; you apparently are unable to concede that he has any flaws. And that suggests to me that your view of him is both unidimensional and unrealistic.
paillette
January 10, 2005 - 07:57 AM
Quote:
Does anyone else find Austin Scarlett(real name I am sure, as it certainly doesn't sound like a harlequin romance dandy), the most offensive character to come around in a long time, or is it just me? As a gay man, I find everything he does on the show to be offensive and all of his actions appear to be pre-planned from his pursed lip- bugged eyed gazes, to his little lady-slink off of the runway after the judging segment. He just reminds me so much of the lead character from 'Waiting for Guffman,' who was the epitome of what every small town gay guy think he is supposed to act like when he gets to the big, sophisticated city. Like the character in Guffman, I see big things in some small town community theatre group for this joker!
Welcome, ctimothy, to the Anti-Austin club! We are a very small, but mightily irritated group of PR watchers who find Austin annoying.
6ft3legend, you too are invited to join if you'd like.
DieterFenerque
January 10, 2005 - 08:19 AM
Oh, thank you,thank you,thank you,thank you, (while at the same time I am genuflecting) for just one more of your posts before retiring. You are REDUNDANT and self indulgent; it is most irritating. STOP being so selfish and STOP waisting so much bandwidth with your reiteration!!!!!!! Thank you, have a nice day.
LorelaiLee
January 10, 2005 - 09:29 AM
I realize that the show is definitely edited to make good TV, as opposed to showing what the experience was really like, since that is also the pattern that "Project Greenlight" follows. The disclaimer at the end of each episode makes this fairly obvious, with the "decisions are made with input from Bravo productions as well as the judges" statement. Keeping all that in mind, so far, I would like to see either Jay or Kara win. I have two reasons for this, one, I have consistantly liked their designs, and two, so far they have been shown in a fairly "professional" light, which means that neither of them have done anything obnoxious enough to have the cameras focused on them for most of an episode. I have also enjoyed Austin's designs, but this is due to being a fan of vintage clothes, not because I find him particularly innovative. Based almost purely on personality, the one person who I do not want to see in the winner's circle is Wendy. I know that editing can do a lot to make someone look bad, but coming right out and stating that you intend to backstab your way to the top is the action of a c**t, pure and simple, and I think the fashion industry suffers enough from that rep as it is. In addition, her designs have been totally uninspiring, and I consider her LBD win for Banana Republic to be a fluke. I don't expect that we'll see anything of note from her again.
LorelaiLee
January 10, 2005 - 09:37 AM
Starr has a face that should be sticking out of one of those "doggie" purses that you see in Bloomingdales. She's a "trembler".
sjbmcbecb
January 10, 2005 - 10:06 AM
"they first eliminate the middle ground and keep a best/worst group of 6"
I just wanted to jump in here and say I don't think that this group is evenly divided into 3 and 3. Heidi just says it represents the best and the worst. In the envy challenge, the following 6 were left on the runway: Kara, Rob, Nora, Mario, Wendy and Starr. Quite obviosly Kara and Rob were the top two, but surely none of the others were among the best? In the first challenge, the six were Wendy, Nora, Austin, Daniel, Starr, and (I think) Rob. Only two good, four bad. So I don't think the final six necessarily tells us the three best and three worst. So its not a foregone conclusion, to me anyway, that Austin's dress was bottom three in the BR challenge. Of course, now that the obvious weak links are gone, it will be harder to tell which is which in the judges view.
I loved Austin's BR dress, by the way, and would surely have worn it when I was young. A poufy skirt makes your waist tiny. I'm an Austin fan. As far as last week's meltdown, I think there was some creative editing involved--notice that segments of Austin weeping were cut in to groups shots--never a wide shot of everyone in the room with Austin flung across the sofa in tears. After the day he had, he's entitled to a bit of a wobbler. I hope he can recover.
paillette
January 10, 2005 - 10:24 AM
Quote:
I think there was some creative editing involved--notice that segments of Austin weeping were cut in to groups shots--never a wide shot of everyone in the room with Austin flung across the sofa in tears.
Actually, you can hear him screeching in the background as the camera watches Vanessa enter the backstage area. When the camera cuts to him carrying on, it's in continuity aurally, if not visually. So unless they are editing in those sobs to the audio I think it's clear Austin was acting up (and I do mean ACTING) at the same time that Vanessa was arriving backstage feeling stunned.
I'm done arguing about the BR challenge. I've said everything I possibly can on the matter and would just be repeating myself, and the judges, at this point.
Vladi
January 10, 2005 - 10:48 AM
Hey guys!
Did you see the preview for the wedding dress episode in which it was said that 'one of your favorite designers will be out'? They showed Jay, Nora and Austin! Do you think that it will be one of those three, or the producers are just trying to throw us off?
Hannah_Lorrae
January 10, 2005 - 11:06 AM
I think they picked Vanessa because Vanessa was honest about her own shortcomings, and the judges construed that as a lack of confidence. So, I guess she should have bullsh** her way through. As for Nora, her behavior was inexcusable. Did you see how the ladies stuck together on her team? If Alexandra had been honest about Nora's crappy behavior, Nora would've been cut.
Did you see how Wendy tried to get rid of Austin? He should have picked her to go instead of Vanessa. After he stood up for both of them, she knifed him in the back. He was emotional and not thinking straight. He just repeated what Vanessa said because he couldn't think of anything else to say.
My husband is devastated. I know Vanessa thought her roommates were babes, but my hubby was hot for the fuller-figured gal. He admired her talent too and was really rooting for her. He's going to take this week off, or so he says. I told him, "Maybe there will be a surprise twist, and she'll get to come back."
God, I love this show!
woof123
January 10, 2005 - 11:29 AM
It really is too bad that Vanessa sunk her own battleship, I quite liked her, although I think the over-the-top singing thing during the contruction on the rock 'n' roll dresses was a bit much; if I'd been there trying to work I admit I'd have been cheesed off. If she'd only called Wendy out for her lack of communication rather than dumping on herself, she'd still be on the show and Nora would have been the one to get the boot for sure. The judges were definitely not impressed with Nora's little hissy fit. Or it could have been a toss-up between Nora and Kevin. If his dress hadn't won (can I just ask again, how the heck did that Cyndi Lauper thing get picked over Jay's fabulous creation?) I think they would have taken a hard look at his apparent lack of leadership; I can't see him being in charge of a design team with that passive-aggressive streak that seemed to show up. Oh, well, water under the bridge at this point.
I do have to say that we all need watch out for making judgements based on the timing or sequence of events as broadcast on the show. Take it from someone that has a spouse and many friends in the biz, just because it looks or sounds like A immediately followed B, or C directly caused D, t'ain't neccesarily so. With the amount of footage that they shoot for each episode, most of it goes into the trash can, everything gets compressed, shots get run out of sequence, etc... Also they try to present some kind of unified theme if they can, last week's most notable being "Nora Runs Amok!" and "Austin Overwrought!" and such. You can already tell from the previews that one of this week's will be "Jay Freaks Out!" Stay tuned...
Auditmom
January 10, 2005 - 12:08 PM
I love this show and actually got my husband hooked! Jay is my favorite, with Austin & Kara tied for second. Amazingly talented people, all of them.
Auditmom
January 10, 2005 - 12:12 PM
I agree that Austin showed genius in that episode--it was truly amazing. However, I liked the outfit created by the guy who got kicked off. I actually would have worn it.
paillette
January 10, 2005 - 02:49 PM
I haven't seen the preview that says one of the favorite designers will be out while showing Nora, Austin, & Jay. However, I would guess that it won't be Jay, because the other main preview for next week focusses so much on Jay's difficulties with Morgan during the wedding challenge. I have noticed that they like to be a little misleading in these previews, in order to make the real episode a surprise. So, they are directing our attention to Jay, but to my mind that makes him LESS likely to be the one to go.
At any rate, I hope I'm right and that he stays in!
LorelaiLee
January 10, 2005 - 03:02 PM
Quote:
If she'd only called Wendy out for her lack of communication rather than dumping on herself, she'd still be on the show and Nora would have been the one to get the boot for sure.
Or perhaps, if both Austin and Vanessa had gone against Wendy for her lack of cooperation, perhaps she would be gone. Vanessa really shot herself in the foot, esp. because she chose "I can't sew" as the reason she was a weak team-member. She obviously can sew, she just dosen't like doing it, something that I can totally sympathize with.
Wendy was not a team player, because she STOPPED TALKING TO HER TEAMMATES. Exactly how well would that go over with a pro-designer?! I'm also kinda sitting on the fence about Austin - I think that he was shrewd enough to eliminate the stronger competition, but still felt bad about doing it, although if you are truly that hysterical and DON'T want the attention, there is a little detail called "leaving the room until you can compose yourself" that he seems to have missed.
Anyway, I hope that Nora and Wendy get the boot soon, and if Austin dosen't shape up fast, he can go, too.
jais_girl
January 10, 2005 - 03:06 PM
WHOA! She has the right to say whatever she wants! There is no reason for you to criticize her for speaking about what she wants to!
If you don't want to read posts that you think are redundant, then DON'T!
I see it more along the lines of emphasizing something. Sometimes it needs to be repeated in order to get the message across and plainly this was one of those times!
JG (smoothing down her feathers)
Istya
January 10, 2005 - 05:00 PM
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Austin is the worst! Like Step 'N' Fetchit and Mammy, caricatures are not always the best way to represent a group of people. It is unfortunate that people feel that being gay should force one to choose a "role" to play. From the hairnets and hair clips to the sassy pirate outfits to the REALLY theatrical crying fit, this clown is all a facade and a creature of his own design. He can't be booted soon enough for me so he can get on with his career designing for drag queens or small town theatre troops. Away you poof!
I don't want to give the impression that I'm blindly defending anyone, but that's really not fair to say. I mean, Austin bugs me sometimes, but saying that about him is just rude. When did he anounce that he was the poster child for gay men? I'm pretty sure he's not the only homosexual male on the show, and the fact that everyone is different ought to say something. Nora is a heterosexual girl, but do I get upset because she acts like an immature brat because I'm also a heterosexual girl? No, because that's stupid. People are different, that's life. Just becuase Austin happens to be gay, and someone else happens to be gay, doesn't mean he has the right to say Austin is a bad representation because he's not representing anyone except himself. I can't be the only one who thinks sexual preference is completely nonrelated to one's design skills.
Again, replace Austin with "any gay man," please becuase I couldn't care less that it's him; I just can't stand stereotyping.
DieterFenerque
January 10, 2005 - 06:00 PM
Post deleted by BravoBoardBoss
corprip
January 10, 2005 - 06:02 PM
I think the idea that Austin is a negative stereotype of gay people comes from the fact that he is one of four gay men on the show (Jay, Mario, Tim, and Austin), yet he is the only one who acts limp-wristed, wears makeup and practically crossdresses. It isn't offensive to me, but I can see why some may feel he sets the struggle for gay rights back 10 years or so, similar to the way feminists accuse girls in mini-skirts of setting back the women's rights movement. He reinforces the preconceived notions that gay men are effete and emotionally unstable.
DieterFenerque
January 10, 2005 - 06:37 PM
Gay, not gay, gay, who cares? Why hasn't anyone accused any of the women of being dykes. I haven't heard Austin or anyone else declare their homosexuality and it matters not. Not all effeminate men are gay. I liked his husk dress and the BR dress, but Austin is ostentatious, overdone, and pompous. That phoney dislay of a crying jag tells me he is a premeditated weasel also. I hope that comtemptible display is not a harbinger of things to come from him and any of the others.
monkeytoes
January 10, 2005 - 06:38 PM
Everyone badmouthing Jay should stop. Even if you don't like his personality, the man's got skill. And if you have any ounce of fun in you, you'd dig the guy. He's a character! And not a stereotype. And his designs are just as fresh as his loud-mouthed-nay-saying-balls-sweating-[expletive deleted]-Jesus-strutting personality. Go Jay All the Way!!!!
paillette
January 10, 2005 - 06:55 PM
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Austin is ostentatious, overdone, and pompous. That phoney dislay of a crying jag tells me he is a premeditated weasel also.
I think part of what makes some poeple, including myself, skeptical of Austin is the degree to which he seems so highly affected and artificial in regard to every aspect of his image. Speaking for myself, I can say that whatever a person's sex, sexuality, or gender identification, once in a while I like to see SOME aspect of a person that seems spontaneous and sincere, but EVERYTHING about him strikes me as affected -- as a put-on that he himself is also watching and monitoring closely.
As for ctimothy's comment about Austin as a gay representative: one reason why straight girls probably aren't annoyed by Nora is because straight girls have not been the butt of recent, humorous stereotypes to the same degree that gay men have. When you say, "Straight girl" not alot of people instantly think "brat." But say "gay man" and a large number of people think, "effeminate, limp-wristed" etc. It would be nice if, as Istya suggests, everyone could just represent themselves as an individual, but I don't think our society is at that point yet.When Austin lives the gay stereotype so exaggeratedly on-camera, he is playing to prejudices that still exist in our society, and therefore, ctimothy suggests, he potentially is exacerbating anti-gay bias. Prejudices against straight girls just don't exist to the same degree.
In other words, there is more at stake here for members of still-marginalized minorities than for members of the dominant social group.
corprip
January 10, 2005 - 07:00 PM
Well I don't know if any of the women are gay, but Southern Voice online magazine has an article on the subject:
http://www.sovo.com/2004/12-10/arts/television/tv.cfmAnd I confess, I am just assuming Tim is gay. I know he is family.
Who cares? I do, for one. I'm sick of the gay people being marginalized or displayed like freaks in the mainstream media. Remember Richard Hatch? Do you think anyone actually liked him? How about Eric McCormack? Oh, wait h'es not even gay.
Project Runway is great because gay people are a part of it, and its not demeaning to them, the way other shows have been. Austin's flamboyancy is a part of who he is. Some gay people don't like it, some don't care. So there.
goddessamelia
January 10, 2005 - 07:26 PM
Im curious as to why everybody goes by their first name except for KaraSaun. ITs as if its one word. Does she want to go by this?
tintinhaddock
January 10, 2005 - 07:46 PM
What happened to Vanessa???? NO NO NO NO NO. Shame on you Project Runway, I loved your show but I'm turning off from now on. I don't care who wins. A very stupid and confused elimination process.
JAA1
January 10, 2005 - 08:53 PM
FYI...Vanessa and I have worked together for years and she is a VERY talented designer! I know she will appreciate all the nice comments! She has evolved to where she doesn't HAVE to make patterns or sew anymore, even though she can. She hires us to do it for her! No need to worry about Vanessa because her business is doing quite well....check out her website....you can see the talent and you can order anything you see so share the link! (www.vanessarileylondon.com) As for her relationship with Austin....they ARE friends....this is just a show! Enjoy watching the drama unfold!
texturetwo
January 10, 2005 - 10:29 PM
Could not agree more. VANESSA is amazing. Her designs - yes. Her personality - yes. Her essense - yes.
I want to make the point that this show will depict these designers exactly as they wish. They must have shot nonstop for a month or six weeks to get the footage to make the show. At 16 hours a day (allowing 8 for sleep) that is about 650 hours of footage. Now consider that there are two or three cameras rolling at a time and that gives them about 1500 hours of footage to edit into 9 episodes of an hour each. That means that that maybe 1491 hours of footage has been thrown away and 9 hours of footage kept. The producers can edit this any way they want!
So when I really want to size up a designer and they're talents I gather my own info. I've gone to their websites and done Google searches on them all and the one that repeatedly stands out as the golden girl is VANESSA. Do a Google search on her and you will see how much she has done. She's the real deal. I'm in the industry. I know my stuff and she's hot!
KateBoston
January 10, 2005 - 11:01 PM
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A little late, but...
WHAT IS UP WITH JUDGES CHOOSING VANESSA OVER WENDY TO BE THE ONE TO GO?!
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No Kidding! Wendy was the obvious choice to go on that team. And there are several others still on the show that aren't anywhere near as talented as Vanessa. Why are they still on and she is gone? She was unlucky to be on the team with the weakest design. Don't get me wrong, I love Austin too. Hey, everything one makes cannot be a masterpeice and I think Vanessa was eliminated because she had the bad luck to be on the team with the weakest design and she was so incredibly graceful and took the brunt of the hit. Bravo Vanessa! And oh my God! thanks for posting her website. She's really talented and you can see much more on her site than you could ever see on the show. There's even a photo of her and the hottest man alive, STING!!! Oh my god, he's so hot and they are all over each other. It was really deep in the site - under "Events" and then at the end of the photo gallery.
Jay is a bit of an entertainer. Designer, maybe.... I'm not sure. But he sure hams it up for the cameras. Well, still likeable I suppose. As for the rest, i haven't much of an opinion.
Lauren123
January 11, 2005 - 07:11 AM
Haha, I just read all these post from people who went to high school with Nora. "Show 'em how it's done, 'shire style"? What is that crap? I grew up there and all I can say is that 'shire style consists of a bunch of priveleged little brats driving around in their parents' cars getting ahead because they cheat on their exams, while smoking pot and drinking beer they bought with their allowance. I didn't know Nora as she wasn't in my class, so all I know of her is based on the show. Clearly, she is skilled, and clearly, she is immature. Maybe when she grows up a little she'll have more success in the fashion world.
SewGoddess
January 11, 2005 - 08:27 AM
As a sewing enthusiast, I love Jay. His construction is beautiful and he can rise to the challenges while still being true to his personal style. I love KaraSaun too. I don't think she gets enough coverage because she's not being an obnoxious spoiled whiney brat (Nora). I think Wendy is too much like the seamstress from small town that makes 80's looking wedding dresses for the local 16 year old shot gun brides. Austin does beautiful work however I do not think he is versatile and would be fabulous as a costumer. As for Vanessa, she's got the talent, she's got the versatility, but she's already got her own business so what good would winning this show do her??? And Robert...I don't know what he can do but he sure is HOT!
Wish the show would show more of the design/draping/construction and less of the crying/hysterical/drama.