cats4
March 23, 2005 - 06:21 PM
I'm fine..everyone is free to voice their opinion...I hear from others you are a great guy..I would love to get to know you better myself....thou we may not always agree...you sound like a great person to know....hope to become better acquainted...
chulie
March 23, 2005 - 07:49 PM
Like many of you, when I saw the Ray S. episode was on again, I was calling friends and rebooking meetings, just to watch the ever-so emotional episode. My question is what song is played when they are getting ready for the wedding? You see Maria in the GORGEOUS Vera Wang dress, you see Ray getting dressed. Anyhow, the line "one love" was sung over and over. If anyone can help me, I would be most gracious. I tear up to that episode and my heart aches for the whole family.
kismet
March 23, 2005 - 09:27 PM
Soooo moving! I love the Fab 5! What many blessings those cute boys bestowed upon that beautiful family. Did anyone catch the website at the end about how to help our troops? It was something "qecares". I want to send a care package to show support and say thanks for the sacrifices.
jais_girl
March 23, 2005 - 10:07 PM
Quote:
Soooo moving! I love the Fab 5! What many blessings those cute boys bestowed upon that beautiful family. Did anyone catch the website at the end about how to help our troops? It was something "qecares". I want to send a care package to show support and say thanks for the sacrifices.
I don't know what the exact address was, but this one will take you to the Hip Tip at the end and gives a website that you can go to that has more information for sending a care package.
http://www.bravotv.com/Queer_Eye_for_the_S...lture/153.shtml
I'm sure the forces will appreciate your support.
JG
notevayas
March 24, 2005 - 09:31 AM
Quote:
I'm fine..everyone is free to voice their opinion...I hear from others you are a great guy..I would love to get to know you better myself....thou we may not always agree...you sound like a great person to know....hope to become better acquainted...
Again, Thank you cats4. When I first posted at Bravo, I was a bit of a mess. I was feeling isolated in my life, and made the mistake of making too many personal posts here. Lucky now, at CARSONKRESSLEY.com we have the private messenging. At first I didn't like it because it seemed sneaky. Now I use it all the time, so if you ever want to chat just head over to Carsons, click on the memberlist button, click on the PM icon next to the name notevayas and message away..
The thing is, so much of conversation depends on context and mood. In PM's we can hash out things over time. Here, I am posting to the naked word.. but in PM it seems I am posting more to the personality behind the words and the writing is more casual.
notevayas
cats4
March 24, 2005 - 12:41 PM
Name the time and the place.....I will go to Carson's web site....
notevayas
March 24, 2005 - 12:56 PM
Tonight at 9pm at Carsons but there is no cats4 at Carsons.
Do you post under another name? If you are not registered, I can't message you back..
Suzanne
March 24, 2005 - 01:05 PM
As the daughter of an Air Force officer and the sister of a Naval officer who just got home from Bahrain, I can't say thank you enough. Our troops need to know how much we love and care about them. By telling viewers at the end how to send much needed care packages, you did just that!!! Good job.
randomhuman
March 24, 2005 - 07:53 PM
Quote:
And when this happens, will you be so quick to dismiss Ray's military service as being simply a job? Do you know how many reservists are serving years? His voluntary service, and the patriotic sacrifices of the men and women who make up our military are the reason you and I are not called upon to make the same sacrifice. But the free ride is ending soon.
1. I am not American.
2. If a draft goes into effect, I will indeed feel very sorry for those who do not want to do military service. I will continue to feel little sympathy for the plight of people who not only volunteer themselves for the job, but get paid to do it. That would be kind of like feeling sorry for a plumber because he has to play around in sewage. You choose the job - you deal with the consequences of your actions.
3. There are countries all over the world with little military strength and no draft that do just fine. Just because America is in hot water because of it's terrible foreign policy doesn't make me feel more sympathetic to the people who are paid to back it up using deadly force.
notevayas
March 24, 2005 - 09:03 PM
Thanks for replying randomhuman.
What country are you from that you do not have to face conscription?
1. I really don't think the fact that servicemen and women receive a paypacket negates any of my points. Even clergy receive pay.
2. The draft really is coming back. Agreements have already been made with Canada to end that avoidance option, and the policy is much more restrictive on the conscientious objector status. I only know this from hearsay, but my source would know. The snag is that there is no legal way to exempt women, and so another 'track' has to be put into place. It will be a political nightmare, but as I've said, due to attrition, there simply are not enough bodies to uphold even our present foreign policy commitments. What will probably happen is that the next major crisis will be used as justification for the policy change.
3. The reason so many countries can exist with a small military and no draft is because we exist as a military superpower.
I am not a fan of this administration's short sighted foreign policy. I regret that volunteer military means that the burden of war is mainly shouldered by the lower classes. Parents have gone to court to keep recruiters out of the schools and lost, and the majority of recruitment is done in poorer neighborhoods bypassing parental experience and influence and exploiting the sincere patriotism and thwarted aggression of young men especially after 9/11.
The fact remains that without a strong military, we and our allies are in danger. That includes me and you. And so the men and women who willingly put themselves in harms way for the common good deserve at least as much respect as police and firefighters, even many teachers and social workers. And because of the extreem danger of duty in Iraq, they deserve all the letters of appreciation and care packages we can manage. As if they were our brothers, because they are.
That is my opinion. You have every right to yours. Perhaps you will have the opportunity to talk to a member of your family who has fought or served in a conflict or war. It may not change your mind, but it will change the tone of the discussion I promise you.
notevayas
jais_girl
March 25, 2005 - 12:08 AM
I'm going to sound incredibly young and innocent, but is there a country that didn't at one point have its citizens face conscription? Maybe its just me, but I thought that every country had (or has) the draft. Maybe its that I have to deal with two.
JG
celtic_wench
March 25, 2005 - 08:36 AM
I haven't posted here in a long time but I couldn't let this go.
Note, as usual, you make some excellent points. I would also like to add that when one joins the US Army (or Navy, Marines, Air Force...) the person goes in with the knowledge that there is a possibility that they may go to war. When a US citizen joins the US National Guard, they full expect to defend their country but at home, not off in a foreign country. These men and women who join the Guard do so knowing they will be called upon in times of national emergency. They fight forest fires, join rescue attempts after tornadoes and earth quakes and protect people from rioters. Not fight for oil. The purpose of the Guard and Reserve is to defend the American homeland not to augment the active-duty military wherever in the world it is engaged.
I laughed when people tried to make Bush's lack of service in the Guard a scandal. The real scandal is the damage Bush is doing to the National Guard today through his utter mismanagement of the war in Iraq, thereby risking the security of Americans at home.
Note, you speak of an upcoming Draft. Well, its already here. This back-door draft the president has inacted with the Guard and Reservists is outrageous. Thousands of Guard and Reserve soldiers are being barred from leaving the supposedly "all volunteer" force when their voluntary service periods are over. Men and women who joined understanding they would be part-time warriors are deploying to combat as much as or more than their active-duty counterparts. In Oregon, where my nephew is a Guardsman, men and women, who do come home, are leaving the Guard right and left. Oregon is in crisis. They rely on their Guard to fight forest fires (of which they have many) and keep their citizens out of harm. My nephew's CO is worried and so PO'd, he can't see straight. And now he's being told to prepare more Guard to go fight in Afghanistan.
Former governor of Minnesota, Jessie Ventura said in an interview prior to the election “We don’t equip them as frontline combat units,” yet they are being sent into frontline combat with only the equipment supplied by the people of Minnesota. He also lamented the fact that, since Guard and Reserve soldiers tend to be older, they're more likely to have families, and those families often are left behind without the comprehensive support services available on bases to the families of active-duty soldiers. He went on to say when Guard or Reserve soldiers are called up and sent overseas to fight, they have no choice but to drop everything—school, career, family—and go to war. Many families are forced to get by on severely reduced incomes, since family breadwinners often earn better pay and benefits in civilian life than they earn in the military. Many families even lose their employer-based health insurance. If they are lucky, their jobs will be waiting for them when they return from overseas, which is what the law requires. However, those laws were written when Guard and Reserve troops deployed for a few months over the course of a couple of decades. Because of the war in Iraq, men and women may be gone for a year or two, come home for a few months, and be called up for war again for who knows how long. Thanks to these excessive deployments and a strained economy, many employers are simply incapable of holding positions open. Add to the family separation and loss of income and benefits the constant fear that your loved one will be killed, and it is easy to understand why many families of Guard and Reserve troops find the pressure unbearable.
For the first time in years, the National Guard missed its annual recruiting of 5,000. Men and women, who would normally join to protect the country they love at home, are staying away in droves. The Army Research Institute projects that only 27 percent of Guard and Reserve soldiers intend to re-enlist—an all-time low. The National Guard is still struggling to put into each state a 22-person Civil Support Team trained to respond to nuclear, biological or chemical terrorism. These teams really need to be battalion-sized units (a couple of thousand people) to be capable of responding effectively. What happens the next time we have a disaster here at home (asside from this last election)? Former Secretary of State Madeline Albright made the comment last year that Bush is “jeopardizing homeland security” by leaving state governors “woefully short-handed.”
Venture also pointed out that the men and women who join the Guard have a higher tendency toward professions like law enforcement, fire fighting and emergency medical services. Thanks to the war in Iraq, Guard and Reserve deployments overseas have left communities across the nation short of the first responders needed to cope with everything from terrorist attacks to more mundane crimes and emergencies. Whose security are we defending the most, Iraq’s, or ours?
I've gone on long enough but I just want to add in closing if you want to show you're support for our troops, don't slap a silly yellow ribbon on your car. That does nothing for them. Send a care package (your local Guard can give you info on where and how to send). I'm sending my 7th at the end of the month.
CW
design_daddy
March 25, 2005 - 08:51 AM
I was wondering what do the army/navy/nat. guards wear/uniforms? Is the apparel the same?
notevayas
March 25, 2005 - 09:57 AM
Quote:
I haven't posted here in a long time but I couldn't let this go.
Note, as usual, you make some excellent points. I would also like to add that when one joins the US Army (or Navy, Marines, Air Force...) the person goes in with the knowledge that there is a possibility that they may go to war. When a US citizen joins the US National Guard, they full expect to defend their country but at home, not off in a foreign country. These men and women who join the Guard do so knowing they will be called upon in times of national emergency. They fight forest fires, join rescue attempts after tornadoes and earth quakes and protect people from rioters. Not fight for oil. The purpose of the Guard and Reserve is to defend the American homeland not to augment the active-duty military wherever in the world it is engaged.
I laughed when people tried to make Bush's lack of service in the Guard a scandal. The real scandal is the damage Bush is doing to the National Guard today through his utter mismanagement of the war in Iraq, thereby risking the security of Americans at home.
Note, you speak of an upcoming Draft. Well, its already here. This back-door draft the president has inacted with the Guard and Reservists is outrageous. Thousands of Guard and Reserve soldiers are being barred from leaving the supposedly "all volunteer" force when their voluntary service periods are over. Men and women who joined understanding they would be part-time warriors are deploying to combat as much as or more than their active-duty counterparts. In Oregon, where my nephew is a Guardsman, men and women, who do come home, are leaving the Guard right and left. Oregon is in crisis. They rely on their Guard to fight forest fires (of which they have many) and keep their citizens out of harm. My nephew's CO is worried and so PO'd, he can't see straight. And now he's being told to prepare more Guard to go fight in Afghanistan.
Former governor of Minnesota, Jessie Ventura said in an interview prior to the election “We don’t equip them as frontline combat units,” yet they are being sent into frontline combat with only the equipment supplied by the people of Minnesota. He also lamented the fact that, since Guard and Reserve soldiers tend to be older, they're more likely to have families, and those families often are left behind without the comprehensive support services available on bases to the families of active-duty soldiers. He went on to say when Guard or Reserve soldiers are called up and sent overseas to fight, they have no choice but to drop everything—school, career, family—and go to war. Many families are forced to get by on severely reduced incomes, since family breadwinners often earn better pay and benefits in civilian life than they earn in the military. Many families even lose their employer-based health insurance. If they are lucky, their jobs will be waiting for them when they return from overseas, which is what the law requires. However, those laws were written when Guard and Reserve troops deployed for a few months over the course of a couple of decades. Because of the war in Iraq, men and women may be gone for a year or two, come home for a few months, and be called up for war again for who knows how long. Thanks to these excessive deployments and a strained economy, many employers are simply incapable of holding positions open. Add to the family separation and loss of income and benefits the constant fear that your loved one will be killed, and it is easy to understand why many families of Guard and Reserve troops find the pressure unbearable.
For the first time in years, the National Guard missed its annual recruiting of 5,000. Men and women, who would normally join to protect the country they love at home, are staying away in droves. The Army Research Institute projects that only 27 percent of Guard and Reserve soldiers intend to re-enlist—an all-time low. The National Guard is still struggling to put into each state a 22-person Civil Support Team trained to respond to nuclear, biological or chemical terrorism. These teams really need to be battalion-sized units (a couple of thousand people) to be capable of responding effectively. What happens the next time we have a disaster here at home (asside from this last election)? Former Secretary of State Madeline Albright made the comment last year that Bush is “jeopardizing homeland security” by leaving state governors “woefully short-handed.”
Venture also pointed out that the men and women who join the Guard have a higher tendency toward professions like law enforcement, fire fighting and emergency medical services. Thanks to the war in Iraq, Guard and Reserve deployments overseas have left communities across the nation short of the first responders needed to cope with everything from terrorist attacks to more mundane crimes and emergencies. Whose security are we defending the most, Iraq’s, or ours?
I've gone on long enough but I just want to add in closing if you want to show you're support for our troops, don't slap a silly yellow ribbon on your car. That does nothing for them. Send a care package (your local Guard can give you info on where and how to send). I'm sending my 7th at the end of the month.
CW
Thank you CW for posting the facts. All I had was the edges of conversations that didn't really include me.
What is happening with the Guard is a tragedy. Fathers are surfing the net looking for night vision equiptment at any price to send their child in Iraq. And it's not just the guard that is going ill equipped. People do not complain much in public as it just isn't done, but there is a growing sense of doom. The care packages are important. People who are inclined to donate have been tapped out with the tsunami aid and their traditional charities. They make the assumption that the military takes care of it's own and that our tax dollars are being wisely used. Just like randomhuman, many people consider the choice of a military career to be the same kind of choice as that to become a plumber. The complacency that allows them to feel this way, or to blame the soldier for the foreign policy of the government, comes from their distance to the situation. The draft changes that. The draft means it's not just the problem of the poor kid who wants to earn a college education and is willing to make more personal sacrifice than most. The draft means most every family has involvement.
Thank you again CW for bringing the information to this thread. I'm sure it will spur even more info and more perspectives on these issues.
notevayas
raindog
March 25, 2005 - 10:29 AM
Quote:
I haven't posted here in a long time but I couldn't let this go....
Excellent, excellent, excellent post, CW.
jais_girl
March 25, 2005 - 10:55 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't posted here in a long time but I couldn't let this go....
Excellent, excellent, excellent post, CW.
Ditto from me. Thanks.
JG
MidniteBlue
March 25, 2005 - 12:06 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't posted here in a long time but I couldn't let this go....
Excellent, excellent, excellent post, CW.
Ditto from me. Thanks.
JG
I concur. Thanks for such an eloquent, informative post, CW.
kyansutra
March 26, 2005 - 02:27 PM
Good perspective there-CW. Thank you for your post!
Does anybody know if Ray is still on our shores?
ProudMarineWife
March 27, 2005 - 10:52 PM
Every branch of the service has their own uniforms, and many of them. They wear different uniforms for different jobs and occasions within their respective service. Hope this helps.
ProudMarineWife
March 27, 2005 - 11:25 PM
First of all I must say I haven't watched the show many times, however, I will make it a point to watch from now on. The Ray S. episode hit home with me as my husband is currently serving in Iraq. This show was done so tastefully and reenforced the point that each one of the servicemembers, serving at home or abroad, is a real person, with a family. Ray did an excellent job in putting a face and personality to a profession that I believe is often misunderstood.
I read a post where someone asked why someone would join the military. I can only answer this as a military spouse who lives in a military community. To sum it up, a sense of something worthwhile and greater than one's own self. Nothing worth having is free; there is always a price to be paid. My husband serves his country in the hopes that our sons will not have to some day. He serves his country so that all Americans can live safer and free. My husband is not from a low-income family, he is not uneducated, and he is not stupid or brainwashed. Just to clear up a few misconceptions there. Not necessarily on this board, but in general :-).
Thank you Fab 5 for an outstanding job!
signladybc
March 28, 2005 - 11:31 AM
CW, Notevayas and other who have responded to this discussion--thank you SO much for the eye openers. I (thanks be to God) have not had to face the personal sacrifices of those in the military--I'm a woman of a certain age, my father served stateside in WWII (he applied for CO status but wasn't approved so he served in a "non-military" area--teaching reconnaisance photography) my brother was a CO during Vietnam (I am so proud of him!) and my son was born and raised between Vietnam and the first Gulf War so he never even was drafted. All that being said, I am still appalled at the things you and Notevayas have revealed.
Yes, my gut said the draft would be reinstituted as soon as that man was re-elected but I would prefer to live in denial. The fact that the National Guard and Reserves are being used so heavily is something I was not aware of--again, probably due to my home on de-nial .
Thanks again for bringing these things to my attention. And to proud Marine Wife, you stay proud, stay safe and know that your husband has just been added to my list for prayers.
Send care packages!!!!
SignLadyB _,,/
p.s. my supervisor has an aunt who refuses to call that man by name and instead calls him, "como se llama" (what's his name for the few of us who don't speak Spanish). I like that--think I will try to adopt it.
celtic_wench
March 28, 2005 - 05:09 PM
Quote:
p.s. my supervisor has an aunt who refuses to call that man by name and instead calls him, "como se llama" (what's his name for the few of us who don't speak Spanish). I like that--think I will try to adopt it.
In my household we often refer to him as "He Who Must Not Be Named" along with other more unflattering names which are not appropriate to post here. One things for certain, we rarely refer to him as President.
CW
MidniteBlue
March 28, 2005 - 05:30 PM
Quote:
Quote:
p.s. my supervisor has an aunt who refuses to call that man by name and instead calls him, "como se llama" (what's his name for the few of us who don't speak Spanish). I like that--think I will try to adopt it.
In my household we often refer to him as "He Who Must Not Be Named" along with other more unflattering names which are not appropriate to post here. One things for certain, we rarely refer to him as President.
CW
I'd tell you the names I call him, but they're not appropriate to post.
signladybc
March 29, 2005 - 10:44 AM
Quote:
In my household we often refer to him as "He Who Must Not Be Named" along with other more unflattering names which are not appropriate to post here. One things for certain, we rarely refer to him as President.
CW
Ooooh! I like that!!! Even the original He Who (Voldemort) has more heart than como se llama!
SLB _,,/
design_daddy
March 30, 2005 - 05:36 AM
D'u havce any nicknames? From friends?
nmgirl98
April 24, 2005 - 03:47 PM
I'm new - and I tried to read through to find an answer to my question but didn't see it.
Has there been any update on Ray and how he's doing? I would love to know.
DeeB
May 31, 2005 - 11:57 AM
Just curious - With Memorial Day just past, does anyone know how Ray and his family are doing? They would be a great pick for your holiday show for a follow up. Even if Ray isn't there, maybe you could arrange a message between them during the show?!
Just a note to someone who I read here saying the show shouldn't morph into a social services show, I'd rather see the guys help a soldier and his family or a veteran than some guy who just isn't helping himself. Our soldiers and vets need everyone's appreciation, if you guys can do it for one or two more power to you. It might be a real boost to a veteran who's lost a limb, or suffered devistating wounds to have you visit. Just something to think about.
Christine
December 28, 2005 - 10:14 AM
I saw a repeat of this episode last night and was wondering how Ray and his family are doing?
Chris
albertreyes1214
November 26, 2009 - 08:34 PM
albertreyes1214
November 26, 2009 - 08:34 PM
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