BravoBoardBoss
December 6, 2005 - 06:31 PM
What did you think of the first "Make better" of out "Weddings" season? Discuss here!
cats4
December 7, 2005 - 04:38 AM
It was the usual mayhem....Joe looked as confused as all the others in the past. But very grateful for all their help....it was great seeing a new episode after this very long period of nonthing!! Carson,Ted,Jai,Thom and Kyan these gentlemen can do no wrong....looking to see what continued hayhem they do in part 2!!
design_daddy
December 7, 2005 - 05:32 AM
I, of course, can't wait to see THOM on this eppy.!
raindog
December 7, 2005 - 06:37 AM
It WAS really good to have a new episode after such a long drought. But I was so irritated at Bravo's commercialfest that I will have to watch it again to fully appreciate it. I mean, starting the show as the end credits of the last show are still running????? Having those HUGE banner-ad-promo-things every five minutes for other shows???? (Well, it felt like every five minutes.) I'm afraid that next it's going to be a split-screen with QE in one corner and promos for all Bravo's ten zillion other new sucky shows in the rest of the screen. I'm probably treading thin ice with the Project Runway fans, but honestly, I feared if I had to sit through one more commercial featuring Heidi One-Expression Klum I'd have a breakdown!!!
*deep breaths* Okay, rant over- I do need to watch it again. All Joe and Laura's friends seemed identical, or at least identically dressed, and for some reason the whole flower over the face thing bothered me. Something about her standing there in front of all those silent people holding flowers in front of their faces just... creeped me out. How weird is that??
And the second part is tonight??? Is that instead of a new one next week?
I sound like Notevayas! I think I'm a little bothered by the whole wedding thing, and am looking for reasons to whine, though.
tomasulo
December 7, 2005 - 07:54 AM
The proposal was stunning! What a wonderful group of friends and family to agree to participate! Thom and his crew displayed their genius once again with the decor of Joe's home and snaps for Carson for making it Laura-friendly. I can't wait for the wedding next week....I'll keep my tissues handy....right next to my vodka. I love weddings so I'm all about the new season.
tomasulo
December 7, 2005 - 07:59 AM
Quote:
It WAS really good to have a new episode after such a long drought. But I was so irritated at Bravo's commercialfest that I will have to watch it again to fully appreciate it. I mean, starting the show as the end credits of the last show are still running????? Having those HUGE banner-ad-promo-things every five minutes for other shows???? (Well, it felt like every five minutes.) I'm afraid that next it's going to be a split-screen with QE in one corner and promos for all Bravo's ten zillion other new sucky shows in the rest of the screen. I'm probably treading thin ice with the Project Runway fans, but honestly, I feared if I had to sit through one more commercial featuring Heidi One-Expression Klum I'd have a breakdown!!!
*deep breaths* Okay, rant over- I do need to watch it again. All Joe and Laura's friends seemed identical, or at least identically dressed, and for some reason the whole flower over the face thing bothered me. Something about her standing there in front of all those silent people holding flowers in front of their faces just... creeped me out. How weird is that??
And the second part is tonight??? Is that instead of a new one next week?
I sound like Notevayas! I think I'm a little bothered by the whole wedding thing, and am looking for reasons to whine, though.
I think it's just a sneak preview tonight....whatever the heck that is! I agree with you about the Project Runway promos.....Heidi Klum is amazingly beautiful but if I have to hear her say "You're out!" one more time I'm going to have to double my alcohol intake.
notevayas
December 7, 2005 - 08:25 AM
Quote:
I sound like Notevayas! I think I'm a little bothered by the whole wedding thing, and am looking for reasons to whine, though.
Ack! What is so bad about sounding like ME!
Here is my take from www.carsonkressley.com (the forum) where my temper and I now reside..
notevayas
Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Posts: 532
Location: Scenic Massachusetts
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 11:30 am
--------------------
The Engagement Show
The angel on my right shoulder wants me to talk about what a great job the Fab 5 did setting up a very memorable proposal. And they did. I was a bit teary when the bride-to-be was overcome with the love and support of dozens of family and friends who could take time off work to stage such an emotional scene in that posh lobby.
The groom, from the beginning, was a bit too smug for my taste. It seems he had been dating this girl on and off for 10 years and 7 major breakups. (Well, I admit, that part sounded familiar enough to elicit a few uncomfortable rumblings from the peanut gallery..) He had even spent money he had been saving for an engagement ring on a motorcycle, for which he took some scripted-sounding ribbing from the Fab 5 several times throughout the show.
But now, he was sopping up the kudos for doing the 'right thing' and proposing. Why? The girl wouldn't 'move in' with him unless she got a proposal. It wasn't exactly diamonds for sex. He said all the right things about this 'changing the rest of his life'. But left to his own devices, he didn't seem capable of making this change, or even making space for her in his walk-in closet. He had the big modern townhouse and the expensive ring. He just needed 5 gay guys to give him some couth long enough to walk his sweetie down the aisle. And she seemed a nice person. And isn't that the essence of what makes the show successful? Yes. Clueless guy needs 5 Fab gay guys to get the girl, etc.? Yes.
The show was fine, but it could have been better. I want to be happy for these people when they are married, but my sense of the mood is that these people are investers who are impatient for that divedend check to come in, rather than this being a love match. I mean they all were fussing about saying "Overdue" "Overdue".
Now for my favorite parts of the show.
I laughed when Carson and Jai decided after zroom zrooming on Joe Schmo's last bid for freedom, er, motorcycle, to replay a scene from the Charlie Angels movie where it seems they remove their motorcycle helmets and shake out their hair. Carson has beautiful hair, but it was too styled to shake out right. Poor Jai had no hair at all to speak of! Sad.
I teared up a bit when Joe's dad presented him with a ring-bearer's pillow made from his late mother's wedding dress, though when his dad called him "my baby", the peanut gallery made a rude noise. I guess that goes against the Official Handbook of Straight Men's Rules, but I thought he was probably channeling the mother and it was cute.
I did have to laugh when Kyan assured Joe that the Sunfish the Fab 5 bought him was very easy to use. Ha! Ha! I hope Joe likes getting wet!
And of course, Carson's jokes were a riot! I loved the "butter won't melt in my mouth" look he had when he said, "Sometimes 'No' is just a slow Yes.." and his "Don't Shoot on the Messenger."
And now my less favorite parts...
I did not appreciate Thom going back to Portico. Been there, done that. And there was far too much of snooty relatives examining the merchandise to give the show even more of the feel of a business transaction. Go to India for that! And delete the friends and family mini-interviews! They just made this couple seem more boring and entitled.
My second complaint is about the bouquets. It was a sweet idea, but, bouquets without greenery or baby's breath are obese looking. It is like a woman wrapping every necklace she owns around her neck at the same time. Too much!
The obligatory toast where the make-better thanks the Fab 5 looked way too obligatory. Joe's oh too casually slung arm around Carson seemed to cause Carson discomfort, an ironic turnabout. And the painfully slow camera on the Fab Five's faces during the emotional proposal was embarrassing! The camera actually stopped at Jai, waiting for a tear just a bit too long. Blink one out Jai! Time is money!
And I think the Fab 5 were too dressed up at the beginning. They are at their best when they come into a home casual and shake a straight guy out of his malaise. The Fab 5 came in all dressed like posh servants. Carson in Joe's closet looked like his valet or something! And what is up with Thom and Kyan's hair looking all gelled up in the front. If they are trying for windswept, they missed. Poor Jai could use more hair. The cueball look doesn't suit him at all. Ted and Carson were gorgeous, though at times Carson looked run-down in between his cute expressions.
I don't like the Fab 5 "loft". It seems low-budget, and that, along with the abbreviated themesong at the start, just reminds me that the show has passed it's heyday.
But I do appreciate the full set of Hip Tips!
notevayas
_________________
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raindog
December 7, 2005 - 09:02 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I sound like Notevayas! I think I'm a little bothered by the whole wedding thing, and am looking for reasons to whine, though.
Ack! What is so bad about sounding like ME!
Here is my take from www.carsonkressley.com (the forum) where my temper and I now reside..
notevayas
Oh, it's a GOOD thing! I think I should sound like you more often. I'm still clinging to the hope that it can go on forever without going downhill, though.
tomasulo
December 7, 2005 - 10:12 AM
Deb and I have been discussing this episode by e-mail in light of some of the thoughts of the posters here so I thought I'd repeat some of my profoundly intuitive insights that I blabbed to her. I did think that the FF looked a bit bored with this make-better but I'm hoping that it was because Joe wasn't exactly a firecracker. In the best past eps, you could tell if it was someone the guys really liked....e.g., John Kilcooley, Sean Keenan, or John Bargeman. When I met Ted, he mentioned how much he loved the Zimmermans (the uber-hot figure skaters) and Thom in particular really liked David Goldman. I'm going to blame it on Joe and just see if they don't feel more energized and motivated with future SG's.
raindog
December 7, 2005 - 10:41 AM
Quote:
Deb and I have been discussing this episode by e-mail in light of some of the thoughts of the posters here so I thought I'd repeat some of my profoundly intuitive insights that I blabbed to her. I did think that the FF looked a bit bored with this make-better but I'm hoping that it was because Joe wasn't exactly a firecracker. In the best past eps, you could tell if it was someone the guys really liked....e.g., John Kilcooley, Sean Keenan, or John Bargeman. When I met Ted, he mentioned how much he loved the Zimmermans (the uber-hot figure skaters) and Thom in particular really liked David Goldman. I'm going to blame it on Joe and just see if they don't feel more energized and motivated with future SG's.
You know, I think you're right. I should really watch it again when I'm not so irked, but it just had a kind of "blah" feeling to me, and maybe that's why. I guess the straight guy isn't always going to click with all of them - and maybe not with ANY of them.
MidniteBlue
December 7, 2005 - 12:13 PM
This isn't really a comment on the ep itself, but rather something I noticed. I know people on most of the boards have been wondering why she'd marry someone with whom she's had so many breakups with over a 10 year period. Well, the preview clip for part two is now up, and there's a moment in it that I find very telling. And sad.
Kyan asks her why she'd marry him after 10 years. "Was it the love that was there?" he asks. Her response? "I just and to be MARRIED!"
Are we to take it then that in her eyes marriage is to essential to happiness that the state of marriage itself is more important than who one is going to marry? Are we to take it that she feels its worth going back to someone who has proven more or less unreliable as a supportive partner and friend just for the sake of a pretty dress and a fairy-tale wedding? Is the prospect of being single to terrifying that we'd rather settle for a second-rate mate than look for someone who will be there for with whom we truly feel connected?
I myself don't think that marriage is necessarily a good indicator of personal happiness or success. However, there seems to be a prevailing notion in our culture that one cannot be happy until one has walked down the aisle, the sooner the better. How sad is it that we as a society have drilled this concept that we have been so blinded by society's expectations that we put our own needs and desire aside just to tie the knot before we consider what is best for us?
I am fully aware that I may have looked into her remarks a bit too deeply. I admit that I am still quite irked at the idea of the Fab Five helping with weddings and proposals when they themselves cannot marry. In churches which would promplty deny them that very right. The whole thing makes my stomach turn. So perhaps I am being overly sensitive about this whole thing. But something about the Fab Five assisting this woman marry simply for the sake of being married is upsetting to me, considering that the Fab Five would no doubt marry for love, would society only allow them to do so.
notevayas
December 7, 2005 - 12:38 PM
It seems the conversation is running across two boards, so I will venture out again..notevayas
Location: Scenic Massachusetts
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:01 pm
edna million wrote: Quote:
I don't think I was really convinced that Joe ought to get back together with Laura. Ten YEARS?? And he'd buy a motorcycle instead of asking her to marry him? And now she's going to overlook that in view of a romantic proposal?? In my opinion, she ought to live with him for awhile and get a preview of married life.
notevayas answers:
I can see your point. I think it was significant that he bought the motorcycle when he did. It's clear to me that being married is her dream, and an expectation of relatives, that he is going along with because his girlfriend will not "move in" (have sex routinely) without marriage.
There is a certain undercurrent of disappointment at Joe that he has not proposed in ten years. Maybe his friends and family see it as a rebuke of their way of life. Maybe her friends and family worry that as time goes by, her "worth" on the marriage market will depreciate. She has "invested' so much of herself to the relationship, they seem to feel that she deserves the "payout" of a traditional wedding, especially if that has been her goal.
Listening to her married sisters who came across as materialistic (and chubby) gives the impression that marriage may well contribute to the kind of boredom that gives too much significance to china patterns and the length of the grass in the front yard. Joe's purchase of the motorcycle and his black leather bachelor furniture strewn across the white modern townhouse seems to rebel against the staid future path laid out for him by marriage. The townhouse has tons of space, most of it vertical. It is not a home that suggests children at all, despite the kick-@ss kitchen that had my envy.
When Thom turned that dramatic space into a very "conventional" "comfortable" home, I could see Joe spending much more time in his garage. Has he given his bike a female name yet? Will the time he spends riding her be resented by his bride who will intuitively know that she bought his commitment with the promise of sex that may not be enough? Will he stop communicating and drink? Will she gain weight and find her satisfaction shopping? Will they follow the patterns of others who have had "successful marriages" leading pretty much separate lives until one of them finds a person/passion and breaks it off? Will there be children hurt? Who knows..
notevayas
_________________
79,000 dead.. 800,000 have no winter shelter..
think Himalayan Mountains, people!
India, Pakistan, Afghanistan earthquake
Please Donate http://www.unicef.org/
Carsongasmic and Tedelicious... Virtualocity!
notevayas
December 7, 2005 - 12:48 PM
I find it satisfying that my initial post was more about QE as entertainment, and the conversation is turning to the issues. I underestimated this forum. Has so much changed?
There is a current article about the backlash against gay marriage which is today legal in my state.
Gay Marriage Opponents Push Mass. Ballot By GLEN JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
BOSTON - Supporters of a 2008 ballot initiative to eliminate gay marriage delivered petitions with more than 170,000 signatures to the secretary of state on Wednesday.
The move by the Massachusetts Family Institute and its supporters was the next step in their quest to overturn the 2003 court ruling that made Massachusetts the only state with gay marriage. The initiative also seeks to ban same-sex civil unions.
Of the more than 170,000 signatures, 147,000 were certified by local election clerks. Backers of the initiative needed only 65,825 certified signatures to qualify for the ballot.
"What does that tell us?" Kris Mineau, president of the Family Institute, said at a rally on Beacon Hill. "That the people of Massachusetts have not only spoken, they have shouted. And what are they shouting? `Let the people vote.'"
Because the gay marriage ballot question seeks to amend the state constitution, it also must win the backing of at least 50 members of the 200-seat Legislature in two successive legislative sessions before it can go on the 2008 ballot.
The Supreme Judicial Court ruling in November 2003 made Massachusetts the first state to allow gay marriage. The ruling took effect in May 2004, and thousands of gay and lesbian couples have since married.
The Legislature responded with a proposed constitutional amendment that would have banned gay marriage but allowed civil unions. That amendment won initial approval but failed earlier this year in a second round of voting.
Critics accused supporters of the petition of deceiving people into signing, in some cases having them first sign an unrelated petition on alcohol sales before flipping to a second petition without specifying that it was for the gay marriage ban.
"We believe there was no deception involved," Mineau said Wednesday. "This was a bipartisan event. There were no politics involved."
The Roman Catholic church supported the petition drive, as did Gov. Mitt Romney.
raindog
December 7, 2005 - 02:06 PM
Quote:
This isn't really a comment on the ep itself, but rather something I noticed. I know people on most of the boards have been wondering why she'd marry someone with whom she's had so many breakups with over a 10 year period. Well, the preview clip for part two is now up, and there's a moment in it that I find very telling. And sad.
Kyan asks her why she'd marry him after 10 years. "Was it the love that was there?" he asks. Her response? "I just and to be MARRIED!"
Are we to take it then that in her eyes marriage is to essential to happiness that the state of marriage itself is more important than who one is going to marry? Are we to take it that she feels its worth going back to someone who has proven more or less unreliable as a supportive partner and friend just for the sake of a pretty dress and a fairy-tale wedding? Is the prospect of being single to terrifying that we'd rather settle for a second-rate mate than look for someone who will be there for with whom we truly feel connected?
I myself don't think that marriage is necessarily a good indicator of personal happiness or success. However, there seems to be a prevailing notion in our culture that one cannot be happy until one has walked down the aisle, the sooner the better. How sad is it that we as a society have drilled this concept that we have been so blinded by society's expectations that we put our own needs and desire aside just to tie the knot before we consider what is best for us?
I am fully aware that I may have looked into her remarks a bit too deeply. I admit that I am still quite irked at the idea of the Fab Five helping with weddings and proposals when they themselves cannot marry. In churches which would promplty deny them that very right. The whole thing makes my stomach turn. So perhaps I am being overly sensitive about this whole thing. But something about the Fab Five assisting this woman marry simply for the sake of being married is upsetting to me, considering that the Fab Five would no doubt marry for love, would society only allow them to do so.
I just watched the clip and was totally distracted by the music playing - Bach, Cello Suite in G Major, which I LOVE, and it's very strange because I have it on my computer and thought, "Why is that playing??? I turned off iTunes to listen to the video!!"
Also really liked someone - Thom's? - comment that Carson should go in the church first, and if it doesn't catch fire, it's safe for the rest of them to go in. I hope they have some more digs like that. Because it's really bothering me too, that they're going to all this effort for something most organized religions and nearly every state denies them. I'm still hoping the show will move more towards the irony of the situation. It would be really nice if, say, they do a wedding for Ted and Barry.
And that's a really good point about WHY they're doing this - just so she can get married to someone?? I hope not too. I also think marriage is very very overemphasized, as is having children. You have to get married, you have to have kids, or you're somehow abnormal. I'm very happily married now, but got married first time right out of college largely (in retrospect) because it was just the thing to do. I don't have kids because neither of us want children, and we really are considered oddballs. Either weird for not wanting kids, or sad because we're missing out on the "joys" of being parents.
Okay, I'm veering WAY off topic here. But I believe there were lots of things bothering me about this episode. Hitting nerves right and left!!
raindog
December 7, 2005 - 02:21 PM
Quote:
It seems the conversation is running across two boards, so I will venture out again..notevayas
Location: Scenic Massachusetts
Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 4:01 pm
edna million wrote:
Quote:
I don't think I was really convinced that Joe ought to get back together with Laura. Ten YEARS?? And he'd buy a motorcycle instead of asking her to marry him? And now she's going to overlook that in view of a romantic proposal?? In my opinion, she ought to live with him for awhile and get a preview of married life.
notevayas answers:
I can see your point. I think it was significant that he bought the motorcycle when he did. It's clear to me that being married is her dream, and an expectation of relatives, that he is going along with because his girlfriend will not "move in" (have sex routinely) without marriage.
There is a certain undercurrent of disappointment at Joe that he has not proposed in ten years. Maybe his friends and family see it as a rebuke of their way of life. Maybe her friends and family worry that as time goes by, her "worth" on the marriage market will depreciate. She has "invested' so much of herself to the relationship, they seem to feel that she deserves the "payout" of a traditional wedding, especially if that has been her goal.
Listening to her married sisters who came across as materialistic (and chubby) gives the impression that marriage may well contribute to the kind of boredom that gives too much significance to china patterns and the length of the grass in the front yard. Joe's purchase of the motorcycle and his black leather bachelor furniture strewn across the white modern townhouse seems to rebel against the staid future path laid out for him by marriage. The townhouse has tons of space, most of it vertical. It is not a home that suggests children at all, despite the kick-@ss kitchen that had my envy.
When Thom turned that dramatic space into a very "conventional" "comfortable" home, I could see Joe spending much more time in his garage. Has he given his bike a female name yet? Will the time he spends riding her be resented by his bride who will intuitively know that she bought his commitment with the promise of sex that may not be enough? Will he stop communicating and drink? Will she gain weight and find her satisfaction shopping? Will they follow the patterns of others who have had "successful marriages" leading pretty much separate lives until one of them finds a person/passion and breaks it off? Will there be children hurt? Who knows..
notevayas
_________________
79,000 dead.. 800,000 have no winter shelter..
think Himalayan Mountains, people!
India, Pakistan, Afghanistan earthquake
Please Donate http://www.unicef.org/
Carsongasmic and Tedelicious... Virtualocity!
That was me, my Other Persona Edna Million up there, and now I'm confusing myself as I was starting to say the exact same thing here!
I really do wonder at the whole marriage thing. If I'd lived in sin with my first husband, I would never have married him - and my second husband and I lived together for five years before we got married, or I probably wouldn't have gotten married again. There's a lot more to marriage than fancy weddings and china patterns and nice houses. Which ought to be obvious, but I'm not so sure it is. Especially if that's what you think is going to make you happy.
If Joe was so reluctant to propose, he's probably not going to end up being the Perfect Husband. Laura may be in for a rude shock. It's really sounding like quite the soap opera! Her family seemed very traditional, so I'm sure that's what she was brought up to believe. So was I, actually, and had to learn the hard way.
And there's a whole other topic to delve into - traditional vs. non-traditional. Joe and Laura appear to be going traditional all the way here, while the Fab 5 are about as non-traditional as it gets. Hmmmmmm.
MidniteBlue
December 7, 2005 - 03:52 PM
Quote:
Also really liked someone - Thom's? - comment that Carson should go in the church first, and if it doesn't catch fire, it's safe for the rest of them to go in. I hope they have some more digs like that. Because it's really bothering me too, that they're going to all this effort for something most organized religions and nearly every state denies them. I'm still hoping the show will move more towards the irony of the situation. It would be really nice if, say, they do a wedding for Ted and Barry.
And that's a really good point about WHY they're doing this - just so she can get married to someone?? I hope not too. I also think marriage is very very overemphasized, as is having children. You have to get married, you have to have kids, or you're somehow abnormal. I'm very happily married now, but got married first time right out of college largely (in retrospect) because it was just the thing to do. I don't have kids because neither of us want children, and we really are considered oddballs. Either weird for not wanting kids, or sad because we're missing out on the "joys" of being parents.
EXACTLY. I've always said that I'm not getting married until I find someone I actually want to be married to (and can legally do so). They say every little girl grows up dreaming of her wedding day. I guess I'm the exception because I grew up dreaming of the cool stories I was going to write when I became a famous author. I've never been able to understand why people marry just to marry, and I guess that's partly why this episode disturbs me. It seems like Joe and Laura just caved into pressure from their families and are settling for something neither of them are completely happy about. I certainly hope they wise up before children come into this scenario. And it would be a disaster indeed if either of them thought that a child would "patch up" a bad relationship.
And I agree with you about having children as well. I've never been particularly fond of children, even as a child I wanted to be around adults instead. And yet people still insist that one day I'll change my mind about wanting children. Hey, I may be young, but I have a mind of my own and I know what I do and don't want. I could go on forever about this, but I'll spare you the rant.
I guess behind all the romance, teary-eyes, and big, fancy churches I'm seeing a bad match for these two.
KCee
December 7, 2005 - 07:14 PM
Well, I'm a 40-something never been married woman, and for the most part, I'm happy.
Anyway, did you all see the so-called "sneek peek". Heck that was no peek, that was the entire wedding episode! Maybe they'll replay it on Tuesday at the regular time.
I won't spoil it for those who didn't see it, thinking that it'd be just a preview, except to say WAY TO GO, TED!
bileotter
December 7, 2005 - 07:28 PM
Just gotta call shenanigans on the bit of tonight's (Dec. 7) wedding episode, where Jai blamed the groom not reading his own vows on being overcome by Ave Maria. I've been in a wedding party or two in my time, and every. Single. Detail. Was planned out beforehand, from the walk down the aisle to the actual ceremony, and to claim that an important part of the ceremony would be skipped over due to emotion is just not on. It's far more likely that the groom just said no to doing it, and the bride was so anxious to get married that she went along.
KCee
December 7, 2005 - 07:32 PM
Yeah, I was wondering about that too. Perhaps Jai was just letting him off the hook.
Though, Ave Maria always makes me cry too!
bileotter
December 7, 2005 - 08:31 PM
Quote:
Listening to her married sisters who came across as materialistic (and chubby) gives the impression that marriage may well contribute to the kind of boredom that gives too much significance to china patterns and the length of the grass in the front yard.
Not disagreeing about the materialistic part (the episodes' emphasis on 'they need to get MARRIED right now or the relationship is worth nothing' was a little off-putting to me as well) but what does 'chubby' have to do with 'materialistic'? Are they both personality defects, then?
notevayas
December 7, 2005 - 11:10 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Listening to her married sisters who came across as materialistic (and chubby) gives the impression that marriage may well contribute to the kind of boredom that gives too much significance to china patterns and the length of the grass in the front yard.
Not disagreeing about the materialistic part (the episodes' emphasis on 'they need to get MARRIED right now or the relationship is worth nothing' was a little off-putting to me as well) but what does 'chubby' have to do with 'materialistic'? Are they both personality defects, then?
NO!
And you are right to ask me to clarify this, though you may disagree with me still; I am not equating "chubby" with any kind of defect per se.
The reason I even mentioned it, was that I was trying to elaborate on how I feel complacency or boredom and unhappiness in a relationship might manifest itself physically. It is speculation, as were all my comments, but based on my observations over my lifetime.
It would be against my experience to say that married women are less fit. Every morning I go out, I see the same women that I see in warm weather pushing children in slings, out running. So when I see a family pushing so hard for a wedding, and the bride-to-be is svelte, and the pushy married siblings are chubby, my suspicion is piqued, but only in the context of other clues that the bride-to-be might have been socialized to accept a marriage with serious warning signs, in part, by a family that may value materialism and conformity more than personal happiness.
I think if you have noticed my other posts, such as my ire on judging the nudist make-better (and compatriots) harshly last season, it is clear that I do not devalue overweight people. Many chubby people are very happy and attractive, but not because of the extra weight with it's attending health risks, but in spite of it. That may not be the PC answer, but it is the truth.
notevayas
cats4
December 8, 2005 - 05:46 AM
I agree with raindog....any more ads with Project Runway...I'd like to runaway!!! I hope this is not what we are going to be seeing every Tuesday night or we will ALL NEED TO RUNAWAY!!!
raindog
December 8, 2005 - 06:09 AM
Quote:
EXACTLY. I've always said that I'm not getting married until I find someone I actually want to be married to (and can legally do so). They say every little girl grows up dreaming of her wedding day. I guess I'm the exception because I grew up dreaming of the cool stories I was going to write when I became a famous author. I've never been able to understand why people marry just to marry, and I guess that's partly why this episode disturbs me. It seems like Joe and Laura just caved into pressure from their families and are settling for something neither of them are completely happy about. I certainly hope they wise up before children come into this scenario. And it would be a disaster indeed if either of them thought that a child would "patch up" a bad relationship.
And I agree with you about having children as well. I've never been particularly fond of children, even as a child I wanted to be around adults instead. And yet people still insist that one day I'll change my mind about wanting children. Hey, I may be young, but I have a mind of my own and I know what I do and don't want. I could go on forever about this, but I'll spare you the rant.
I guess behind all the romance, teary-eyes, and big, fancy churches I'm seeing a bad match for these two.
Why, you sound just like me! I was thinking last night while watching Part II that I never had dreams of big fancy weddings either, and that was probably weird. I also spent all my time as a child dreaming about being a famous writer - well, first I planned to be a cowboy despite being a girl, then decided I'd just be a writer since it was much easier and more doable than herding cattle. I never did long for fancy weddings and a storybook marriage.
I also never wanted kids, and was not one of those girls who hauls everyone else's babies around at church. (My brother did, amusingly, and he's the one with three kids.)
Everyone says your biological clock will go off, but so far mine hasn't and I think at this point it's a safe bet that it won't (I'm 44). I like kids and adore my nieces and nephew, but I'm SO glad to just have cats!
Back to the point of the thread, I do hope Joe and Laura are happy and it all works out well for them. It's easy to speculate about what everyone else should or should not do - I'm an expert at that!
raindog
December 8, 2005 - 06:19 AM
Quote:
Just gotta call shenanigans on the bit of tonight's (Dec. 7) wedding episode, where Jai blamed the groom not reading his own vows on being overcome by Ave Maria. I've been in a wedding party or two in my time, and every. Single. Detail. Was planned out beforehand, from the walk down the aisle to the actual ceremony, and to claim that an important part of the ceremony would be skipped over due to emotion is just not on. It's far more likely that the groom just said no to doing it, and the bride was so anxious to get married that she went along.
I think you're exactly right. That's not something that you'd just decide as you're standing there at the altar. I think the priest would have been a bit thrown off by Joe saying, "Oh, wait - I'm not reading my vows; do you have a copy of the traditional ones in your pocket?"
design_daddy
December 8, 2005 - 06:43 AM
I loved seeing THOM laugh when he and Ted were in the kitchen. That brightened up my week.
No party would be started without THOM!
Susan
December 8, 2005 - 07:22 AM
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Also really liked someone - Thom's? - comment that Carson should go in the church first, and if it doesn't catch fire, it's safe for the rest of them to go in. I hope they have some more digs like that. Because it's really bothering me too, that they're going to all this effort for something most organized religions and nearly every state denies them. I'm still hoping the show will move more towards the irony of the situation. It would be really nice if, say, they do a wedding for Ted and Barry.
And that's a really good point about WHY they're doing this - just so she can get married to someone?? I hope not too. I also think marriage is very very overemphasized, as is having children. You have to get married, you have to have kids, or you're somehow abnormal. I'm very happily married now, but got married first time right out of college largely (in retrospect) because it was just the thing to do. I don't have kids because neither of us want children, and we really are considered oddballs. Either weird for not wanting kids, or sad because we're missing out on the "joys" of being parents.
EXACTLY. I've always said that I'm not getting married until I find someone I actually want to be married to (and can legally do so). They say every little girl grows up dreaming of her wedding day. I guess I'm the exception because I grew up dreaming of the cool stories I was going to write when I became a famous author. I've never been able to understand why people marry just to marry, and I guess that's partly why this episode disturbs me. It seems like Joe and Laura just caved into pressure from their families and are settling for something neither of them are completely happy about. I certainly hope they wise up before children come into this scenario. And it would be a disaster indeed if either of them thought that a child would "patch up" a bad relationship.
And I agree with you about having children as well. I've never been particularly fond of children, even as a child I wanted to be around adults instead. And yet people still insist that one day I'll change my mind about wanting children. Hey, I may be young, but I have a mind of my own and I know what I do and don't want. I could go on forever about this, but I'll spare you the rant.
I guess behind all the romance, teary-eyes, and big, fancy churches I'm seeing a bad match for these two.
I go even farther I don'twant chiildren and I don't want to be married either. I have this one patron ( alittle off mentally) who consontrates on the fact tht he doesn't have anyone. He is in love with a coworker and can't get it through his head that she is not interested. I had the same thing happen to me. That patron eventually did get married but, it was awefully fast after his first fiancee died.
cats4
December 8, 2005 - 01:37 PM
Hey Susan, I don not think you are weird as you put it for not wanting kids....that's your choice. I had 2, there are times they really put you through the ringer...don't get me wrong I love my kids.. they are not for everyone. Also it would be neat not only Ted and Barry but if Kyan and Greg were interested in planning a wedding...I would LOVE IT!!! I would like to see how they would go about doing things and would love to share in their happiness and love....
bileotter
December 8, 2005 - 01:37 PM
Quote:
It would be against my experience to say that married women are less fit. Every morning I go out, I see the same women that I see in warm weather pushing children in slings, out running. So when I see a family pushing so hard for a wedding, and the bride-to-be is svelte, and the pushy married siblings are chubby, my suspicion is piqued, but only in the context of other clues that the bride-to-be might have been socialized to accept a marriage with serious warning signs, in part, by a family that may value materialism and conformity more than personal happiness.
I think if you have noticed my other posts, such as my ire on judging the nudist make-better (and compatriots) harshly last season, it is clear that I do not devalue overweight people. Many chubby people are very happy and attractive, but not because of the extra weight with it's attending health risks, but in spite of it. That may not be the PC answer, but it is the truth.
Thank you for explaining your position. While I don't believe that you can accurately diagnose someone's psychological motivations from their physical appearance, I at least get more of a sense of the reasoning behind it.
It seemed to me that *everyone* connected with the bride-to-be appeared to be judging the relationship in traditional terms - while the sister said only that Laura knew 'there was no one else for her,' her very petite friend said that 'no one' understood why their relationship hadn't gone onto marriage in the beginning of Tuesday's episode. My thought is that the statements were more a reflection of the bride (who does appear to come from a very traditional family), and to say that weight (in particular, weight on a woman) is correllated with marital unhappiness seems to verge on stereotype. While the behavior of bride and co. does imply a traditional view (the apex of a relationship is marriage and children), I don't see how someone's body can reinforce that.
tomasulo
December 8, 2005 - 01:48 PM
Okay....I've got to say it.....one word, folks: CAKE! It was gorgeous! And snaps to Joe and Laura for not following that haaarrrrible tradition of smashing it into each other's face. That always seemed so hostile to me....never mind the aggravation of having your friggin' expensive make-up job wrecked! I think it's a good omen that they passed on that custom.
notevayas
December 8, 2005 - 03:00 PM
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Listening to her married sisters who came across as materialistic (and chubby) gives the impression that marriage may well contribute to the kind of boredom that gives too much significance to china patterns and the length of the grass in the front yard.
Not disagreeing about the materialistic part (the episodes' emphasis on 'they need to get MARRIED right now or the relationship is worth nothing' was a little off-putting to me as well) but what does 'chubby' have to do with 'materialistic'? Are they both personality defects, then?
NO!
And you are right to ask me to clarify this, though you may disagree with me still; I am not equating "chubby" with any kind of defect per se.
The reason I even mentioned it, was that I was trying to elaborate on how I feel complacency or boredom and unhappiness in a relationship might manifest itself physically. It is speculation, as were all my comments, but based on my observations over my lifetime.
It would be against my experience to say that married women are less fit...
notevayas
I agree that it is a tricky thing to say that being overweight is often a symptom of unhappiness when we live in a society that so devalues overweight women. It is the ostracism and bias in society that causes the unhappiness.
For example, I am a big fan of Project Runway, (though not their ubiquitous promos cutting into QE!)and last season's winner, Jay McCarroll is attractive and overweight and accepted in the fashion business much easier than a similarly sized woman designer would be. There is a huge double standard!
I also suspect that couples with much more compelling true love stories were passed over by Bravo in the selection process, because the sponsers and Bravo wanted a couple that conformed to a certain physical standard, to be associated with the goods and services provided free to Bravo in exchange for the public exposure, and also because Bravo thinks we're all to shallow to be excited for a less attractive or "chubby" couple, (especially a chubby woman).(ratings)
Supe posted an article explaining "product placement" on Carson's forum, as I reacted badly to hearing (I have not seen the wedding promo yet) that Carson said the wedding was worth $700,000.- I still think it is obscene to spend more money on a few days of celebration, than most people's houses are worth, especially in the face of so much suffering in the world. These people are celebrating love in a church, and yet love must have a very narrow meaning to them, if they see no contadiction in their financial priorities and what Jesus teaches.
Supe says that there is no harm in the rich spending money, but the harm comes from people who cannot afford it feeling the need to spend more than is wise for them. The harm is in people having skewed priorities about what is important.
I think this show is a bad influence if young couples are going to aspire to emulate something costing even a tenth of that cost.
Getting back to my point about weight.. I am close to someone who has been married twice and has married friends, and he swears that every marriage he has known has resulted in the couple gaining significant weight soon after. He says that it is just natural that single people take more effort in their physical appearance, and that marriage creates a sort of malaise and complacency that can turn to boredom and contempt. Mild contempt, as in the saying, "Familiarity breeds contempt." People have remarked on this site that gay men take more care to work out to please their partners, than married men and women do to please each other. I think this is true. I wonder if marriage would change that? I wish to find out. Someday.
notevayas
bileotter
December 8, 2005 - 04:49 PM
Frankly, I'm all kinds of perplexed, so I'm not sure how much sense this will make.
Quote:
Supe posted an article explaining "product placement" on Carson's forum, as I reacted badly to hearing (I have not seen the wedding promo yet) that Carson said the wedding was worth $700,000.- I still think it is obscene to spend more money on a few days of celebration, than most people's houses are worth, especially in the face of so much suffering in the world. These people are celebrating love in a church, and yet love must have a very narrow meaning to them, if they see no contadiction in their financial priorities and what Jesus teaches.
I find ostentatious displays of wealth to be tacky in the extreme myself, so I can see your point, but at the same time, it's television. Television is based on nothing more than consumerism. While it would be more realistic (and perhaps more admirable) to show weddings that are more within a particular couple's means, it wouldn't land the big-deal advertisement sponsors, and might actually wind up hurting the show in the end (TV = materialism, and successful shows use that. It is what it is). So, yeah, I'd prefer if there wasn't quite so much tacky materialism all over my shows, but it's something I just have to live with.
Quote:
I agree that it is a tricky thing to say that being overweight is often a symptom of unhappiness when we live in a society that so devalues overweight women. It is the ostracism and bias in society that causes the unhappiness.
And here's where I start to get confused, because in your previous message, you said:
Quote:
Many chubby people are very happy and attractive, but not because of the extra weight with it's attending health risks, but in spite of it. That may not be the PC answer, but it is the truth.
That implies something very different from your statement that overweight women are made to feel inferior by society. Getting away from the point that being 'chubby' does not equal being 'morbidly obese,' which I'm sure you know, I'm rather confused on how you actually feel here. Is it society or health that makes someone unhappy?
And then you say:
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Getting back to my point about weight.. I am close to someone who has been married twice and has married friends, and he swears that every marriage he has known has resulted in the couple gaining significant weight soon after.
True enough. But then, that also seems to go against your previous statement, where you say:
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Will the time he spends riding her be resented by his bride who will intuitively know that she bought his commitment with the promise of sex that may not be enough? Will he stop communicating and drink? Will she gain weight and find her satisfaction shopping?
Here, you pretty clearly link marital unhappiness with the WOMAN gaining weight (and going shopping), not that the couple gains weight together because they've grown complacent. Which one is it? Is it that the couple gains weight together because they're taking each other for granted, or is it that the woman gains weight because she's depressed about her marriage?
I'm honestly just very confused about what you actually mean. I'm seeing two different things here.
And finally, I love Project Runway too, and I think Jay McCarroll is crazy-talented and fantastic.
Deanie1
December 8, 2005 - 05:29 PM
I am so out of the demographics for this show; but can't NOT watch it. 1 box of tissue on the wedding show. I find when you reach the 73rd year, you can do or say what you want. The flowers could have had some greenery, looked too pat! Everything else so beautiful even all my guys!!!
Deanie1
notevayas
December 9, 2005 - 05:23 AM
bileotter wrote:I find ostentatious displays of wealth to be tacky in the extreme myself, so I can see your point, but at the same time, it's television. Television is based on nothing more than consumerism. While it would be more realistic (and perhaps more admirable) to show weddings that are more within a particular couple's means, it wouldn't land the big-deal advertisement sponsors, and might actually wind up hurting the show in the end (TV = materialism, and successful shows use that. It is what it is). So, yeah, I'd prefer if there wasn't quite so much tacky materialism all over my shows, but it's something I just have to live with.
my opinion:
Queer Eye was a more successful show when the budget was smaller.
The Fab 5 were able to pull off "miracles" that were much more impressive when the resources were closer to what the average middle class viewer could afford, and it made the show more relevant.
This decision by Bravo to pack every iota of product placement possible into a show, demonstrates the lack of regard Bravo has for the heart and integrity of this show that has placed them on the map.
I did say:Quote:
I agree that it is a tricky thing to say that being overweight is often a symptom of unhappiness when we live in a society that so devalues overweight women. It is the ostracism and bias in society that causes the unhappiness.
bileotter said:
And here's where I start to get confused, because in your previous message, you said:
Quote:
Many chubby people are very happy and attractive, but not because of the extra weight with it's attending health risks, but in spite of it. That may not be the PC answer, but it is the truth.
bileotter then says:
That implies something very different from your statement that overweight women are made to feel inferior by society. Getting away from the point that being 'chubby' does not equal being 'morbidly obese,' which I'm sure you know, I'm rather confused on how you actually feel here. Is it society or health that makes someone unhappy?
My answer:
Both, but societies attitudes more so. And because the attitudes are particularly negative toward overweight women, they (women) will probably feel worse.
Bileotter then quotes me again..
Quote:
Getting back to my point about weight.. I am close to someone who has been married twice and has married friends, and he swears that every marriage he has known has resulted in the couple gaining significant weight soon after.
Bileotter then states:
True enough. But then, that also seems to go against your previous statement, where you say:
Quote:
Will the time he spends riding her be resented by his bride who will intuitively know that she bought his commitment with the promise of sex that may not be enough? Will he stop communicating and drink? Will she gain weight and find her satisfaction shopping?
My answer:You excerpted quotes from 2 different posts. In the first, I mention someone else's experiance which you say is "true enough". In the other, I am, based on the reasons given in that post, asking questions only.. Perhaps I am asking the wrong questions, but what it seems to me that you are attempting here, is to find "inconsistancies" between several of my posts in order to either elicit a more definative statement from me, or because you are unhappy with my speculations for some other reason. It is a sensitive subject, yes?
I don't have enough information to make a more definative statement. All I meant to do in my post was to raise several possibilities for thought.
I could have mentioned this issue in the context of why, of all the entries that Bravo must have recieved by straight couples who wanted the Fab Five's help with a wedding, this couple, whose relationship seems shaky at best, was chosen? Was it because the advertisers would be more willing to have their products and services associated with a white, middle-class, and svelte couple?
Bileotter says (referring to my last quote)
Here, you pretty clearly link marital unhappiness with the WOMAN gaining weight (and going shopping), not that the couple gains weight together because they've grown complacent. Which one is it? Is it that the couple gains weight together because they're taking each other for granted, or is it that the woman gains weight because she's depressed about her marriage?
My answer is:
<<sigh>> Married couples gaining weight together was a general observation, that we both seem to agree on. The possibility that this woman would gain weight, like her sisters, if she goes through with a marriage that has, to some of us, real warning signs, was speculation about this situation that I observed in a few minutes of a tv show.
It is not something that I can turn into a general statement of opinion, or would want to.
Again, I apologise for any misunderstanding.
Bileotter says:Quote:
I'm honestly just very confused about what you actually mean. I'm seeing two different things here.
And finally, I love Project Runway too, and I think Jay McCarroll is crazy-talented and fantastic.
I am unabashedly proud that in my posts last year on Runway and Carson's, from the very second challenge on, I was one of the first and loyal Jay supporters!
On Project Runway II, I am torn between half a dozen. Santino is spectacular, but it seems he has trouble "playing nicely with others", though I love his drive! It's very sexy, no?
notevayas
PS.. That Amorosa-type lady who sent her model down the runway with her @sscheeks showing is an embarrassment. She has to redeem herself, and fast, if she wants to stay on. She obviously has the technical skills, and I want to get behind her, but um, not that close behind her..
raindog
December 9, 2005 - 05:59 AM
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Okay....I've got to say it.....one word, folks: CAKE! It was gorgeous! And snaps to Joe and Laura for not following that haaarrrrible tradition of smashing it into each other's face. That always seemed so hostile to me....never mind the aggravation of having your friggin' expensive make-up job wrecked! I think it's a good omen that they passed on that custom.
I was pleased with them for not doing that too. I think that's one barbaric custom that REALLY needs to go. The cake was breathtaking, too.
raindog
December 9, 2005 - 06:04 AM
Quote:
I go even farther I don'twant chiildren and I don't want to be married either. I have this one patron ( alittle off mentally) who consontrates on the fact tht he doesn't have anyone. He is in love with a coworker and can't get it through his head that she is not interested. I had the same thing happen to me. That patron eventually did get married but, it was awefully fast after his first fiancee died.
Hi Susan! You're SO not weird. I wish more people would think before just getting married and having children because it's what society expects.
raindog
December 9, 2005 - 06:09 AM
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Hey Susan, I don not think you are weird as you put it for not wanting kids....that's your choice. I had 2, there are times they really put you through the ringer...don't get me wrong I love my kids.. they are not for everyone. Also it would be neat not only Ted and Barry but if Kyan and Greg were interested in planning a wedding...I would LOVE IT!!! I would like to see how they would go about doing things and would love to share in their happiness and love....
I read an interview recently where Carson said something about how the string of wedding episodes will have some twists - he said a couple of them will be very nontraditional. Maybe they will do a gay wedding - they seem to be keeping very quiet about what's next.
raindog
December 9, 2005 - 06:30 AM
Quote:
I am so out of the demographics for this show; but can't NOT watch it. 1 box of tissue on the wedding show. I find when you reach the 73rd year, you can do or say what you want. The flowers could have had some greenery, looked too pat! Everything else so beautiful even all my guys!!!
Deanie1
I think this show transcends demographics - welcome to the board! I am never that bowled over by weddings, but I LOVE old buildings and was just enchanted by both the church and the library. The whole thing was gorgeous.
notevayas
December 9, 2005 - 07:21 AM
Deanie says:Quote:
I am so out of the demographics for this show; but can't NOT watch it. 1 box of tissue on the wedding show. I find when you reach the 73rd year, you can do or say what you want. The flowers could have had some greenery, looked too pat! Everything else so beautiful even all my guys!!!
Deanie1
Welcome Deanie! I have almost 1000 posts here, so it's time for me to ferme la bouche and listen to new posters like YOU!
notevayas
signladybc
December 9, 2005 - 12:02 PM
First, Hi everyone! I've not had time to read anyone's comments, yet and don't have much time myself, right now so I will just say that I was disappointed.
It felt like everything was done way too fast. The guys almost just walked thru' the episode. I didn't feel any passion or interest in anything that happened until the reveal.
Hope it was 'cuz I was about 1/2 asleep and just walking thru' my life that day and when I go back and watch it this weekend I'll see more of what I've been watching QE for in the past.
I admit also I didn't see the following night and hope maybe that picked up a little.
I'm not criticizing the guys, they are still my FAVES and I'm looking forward to coming weeks.
Will write later. Happy to be back with my QE pals and to see some of you old favorite names again.
SLB _,,/
Depoetic
December 9, 2005 - 02:05 PM
Hugs to all dear precious pets...
I wish I had more time than just to sail in and post blindly - but alas, 'tis more than just the "season"...
Honestly - such a long hiatus between epi's had found my attention wandering. I had ceased to peek at Bravo on Tuesday nights, and honestly just set my VCR to watch the first season later. (Yes, sacriledge... I watched L&O SVU instead...)
I felt too jaded (Yes, dear Teddy - "Jaded and Bitter") to watch anything to do with a proposal and wedding, but I settled down in my flannel jammies, pulled the comforter up all around me and hit the trusty "PLAY" button later and watched in total bliss.
Dear BBB... should you trip over you many duties and randomly pass by this little board - please pass along to the "Gentlemen Five" a hearty "Well Done, Boys!" just for me?
I lost my breath (as always) over the stunning fashions Carson chose. I giggled endlessly at the familiar mayhem. I hugged my pillows and marvelled at Thom's endless brilliance. I applauded Ted and Jai and Kyan at every turn...
...and half way through the broadcast (screen bugs and all {hiss, Bravo}) I began to feel HUMAN again. I am ever amazed by these dear men (and behind the scenes minions) at the magic they perform each and every time.
I am incredibly hesitant about celebrating the culmination of any relationship that has a track record of committment phobia as obvious as this dear groom has exhibited... but I remain ever hopeful that this move - (putting his a$$ on the line for the world stage) - is a genuine indication that this leopard has changed his spots for the better.
I thought the Groom-to-be was genteel, and the Bride to be was lovely. I was so touched by the scenes with her parents. ...And just when I thought I had lost the capacity to be moved to tears any longer... there I was, sobbing my heart out at the sight of the floral spectical of familial love presented in the proposal.
It may have been 10*F outside, but the ice of my heart was melted completely.
Thanks again, dearest Fab Five. How could I ever have doubted you? Forgive me?
Peace to all dear precious peeps.
--De
bileotter
December 9, 2005 - 02:21 PM
Quote:
My answer:You excerpted quotes from 2 different posts. In the first, I mention someone else's experiance which you say is "true enough". In the other, I am, based on the reasons given in that post, asking questions only.. Perhaps I am asking the wrong questions, but what it seems to me that you are attempting here, is to find "inconsistancies" between several of my posts in order to either elicit a more definative statement from me, or because you are unhappy with my speculations for some other reason. It is a sensitive subject, yes?
I don't have enough information to make a more definative statement. All I meant to do in my post was to raise several possibilities for thought.
No harm in doing that. My confusion came in from trying to figure out your debate tactics (I suppose you could call this a debate, yeah?), and your quotes both seemed to be about the same topic - unhappy marriage and the ways people show it. In the quote where you referenced your friend, there seemed to be an equal 'division of labor,' so to speak, where weight gain was not attributed to one person or to a psychological cry for help, while in the first, even while you were asking questions rather than making a statement, the questions you asked painted their own picture, and in context, could lead someone to make very different conclusions than just stating 'some couples gain weight after marriage' could. That's the Socratic method for ya. Honestly, I had no idea what you really believed.
Everything we say here is based on speculation, unless we happen to be close personal friends or family members of the people on TV, and therefore taken with a lot of salt. I prefer to make my speculations based on behavior, because physical appearances, a lot of the time, are *not* connected with someone's psychological motivations (there are exceptions, obviously). To say something like 'her siblings are overweight, and she's skinny, so that implies that she's predisposed to accept bad relationships,' doesn't make a lot of logical sense to me. Better to look at someone's *behavior* first of all, before you try to speculate if someone's physical appearance means something about someone's values.
Quote:
I could have mentioned this issue in the context of why, of all the entries that Bravo must have recieved by straight couples who wanted the Fab Five's help with a wedding, this couple, whose relationship seems shaky at best, was chosen?
The thing is, you can say that about everyone who's ever been on the show. Why pick someone like Alan Corey, for example, or the Bravo twins, or the high school basketball coach, over someone else? That's something to talk to the casting directors about. And the fact that the couple happens to be fairly fit says nothing about their friends and relatives, whom your original comment was about.
This is just a long-winded way of saying that I think we're judging the episode by different criteria, I suppose. I've enjoyed the discussion.
Quote:
On Project Runway II, I am torn between half a dozen. Santino is spectacular, but it seems he has trouble "playing nicely with others", though I love his drive! It's very sexy, no?
Can't get a read on Santino this early in the game - he's obviously talented, but there's a touch of sour grapes about his attitude, which I don't really find compelling. My taste in sexiness runs more towards Chloe (she's so tiny and WEE and makes gorgeous dresses) and Tim Gunn, bearing in mind.
KCee
December 9, 2005 - 03:13 PM
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Hey Susan, I don not think you are weird as you put it for not wanting kids....that's your choice. I had 2, there are times they really put you through the ringer...don't get me wrong I love my kids.. they are not for everyone. Also it would be neat not only Ted and Barry but if Kyan and Greg were interested in planning a wedding...I would LOVE IT!!! I would like to see how they would go about doing things and would love to share in their happiness and love....
I read an interview recently where Carson said something about how the string of wedding episodes will have some twists - he said a couple of them will be very nontraditional. Maybe they will do a gay wedding - they seem to be keeping very quiet about what's next.
Raindog, this may be the article you're referring to.
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Insider/?cmsGu...73500BDB3D52%7D
LRKover
December 9, 2005 - 07:55 PM
I just about died when I was watching this episode and all of a sudden RUSSELL WATSON started singing Ave Maria!!!! OMG I would have ditched my hubby to be and ran off with him lol. I love Russell he is an amazing singer...very cool rock voice when he wants too. He does a kick a** version of Bohemian Rhapsody on one of his cd's!!!!
design_daddy
December 10, 2005 - 01:44 PM
Thom is my fave on the show, I just caught the kitchen moment when he was in the kitchen w/ Ted. I loved the color of Thom's shirt, and when he laughs and smiles, I should be laughing right with him
Any particular faves on the show??
How many people have purchased Ted's book???
design_daddy
December 11, 2005 - 12:26 PM
Doesn't THOM got the best dance moves? I was so enveious of the future bride dancing with THOM! Wouldn't you agree with me???
raindog
December 12, 2005 - 06:16 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Hey Susan, I don not think you are weird as you put it for not wanting kids....that's your choice. I had 2, there are times they really put you through the ringer...don't get me wrong I love my kids.. they are not for everyone. Also it would be neat not only Ted and Barry but if Kyan and Greg were interested in planning a wedding...I would LOVE IT!!! I would like to see how they would go about doing things and would love to share in their happiness and love....
I read an interview recently where Carson said something about how the string of wedding episodes will have some twists - he said a couple of them will be very nontraditional. Maybe they will do a gay wedding - they seem to be keeping very quiet about what's next.
Raindog, this may be the article you're referring to.
http://www.tvguide.com/News/Insider/?cmsGu...73500BDB3D52%7D
That's exactly it - thank you! That made me think they've got something REALLY interesting brewing!
raindog
December 12, 2005 - 06:20 AM
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First, Hi everyone! I've not had time to read anyone's comments, yet and don't have much time myself, right now so I will just say that I was disappointed.
It felt like everything was done way too fast. The guys almost just walked thru' the episode. I didn't feel any passion or interest in anything that happened until the reveal.
Hope it was 'cuz I was about 1/2 asleep and just walking thru' my life that day and when I go back and watch it this weekend I'll see more of what I've been watching QE for in the past.
I admit also I didn't see the following night and hope maybe that picked up a little.
I'm not criticizing the guys, they are still my FAVES and I'm looking forward to coming weeks.
Will write later. Happy to be back with my QE pals and to see some of you old favorite names again.
SLB _,,/
Hi signlady! I haven't wanted to post much about Part II since I don't think a lot of people realized the "sneak preek" was, like, the whole show, so they haven't seen it yet - but I did think it was more interesting than the proposal one.
raindog
December 12, 2005 - 06:24 AM
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Hugs to all dear precious pets...
I wish I had more time than just to sail in and post blindly - but alas, 'tis more than just the "season"...
Hi De! Good to see you back, even in a drive-by posting!
JeanBeans
December 13, 2005 - 06:11 PM
What was that song they played. I think it was toward the end. Was it Sam Cooke? Does anyone know? It's driving me crazy!
tomasulo
December 14, 2005 - 06:45 AM
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What was that song they played. I think it was toward the end. Was it Sam Cooke? Does anyone know? It's driving me crazy!
JeanBeans, thank you for asking this question! I'm dying to know, too. It did sound like Sam Cook but I don't think I've heard it before. Someone help us, please! It was playing while Joe was rushing around just before he answered the door. The lyrics were "I will always be in love with you......If you let me walk by your side......."...something like that.
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