RUserious1
April 27, 2006 - 01:01 AM
I have read the other posts regarding Katie Lee, and I agree that she is not that good of a host, very robotic indeed! My main problem is the negative attitude of Chef Colicchio. Listen buddy and remember, you are just like the manager at Mcdonalds; the manager also has 40 employees under him or her, and also has the ability to cook a better product than the lowly fry or sous chef. The Mcdonalds manager also has the ability to talk down to the other employees or applicants. To make this long story short; get over yourself and get me a burger, because that is basically what you do.
In conclusion, my opinion of the hosts are... They are like Harold's dish: cold, stale, and just sitting there.
rxgrrl
April 27, 2006 - 05:31 AM
I'm glad Stephen finally got the boot, good riddance!This was an unrealistic challenge. Planning and cooking food for a wedding reception in 16 hours is impossible. The judges should have taken that into consideration and not been so harsh. The bald judge asked Tif if she would serve this food at her restraunt and then was offended when she said'no'. SHE should have asked HIM if he would have let the chefs plan and cook for a reception in a 16 hour time frame at his restraunt. I bet he would have said 'no'.
leila4spirit
April 27, 2006 - 06:24 AM
Hey, everybody, This is NOT Project Runway!!!!!!!!! Anyway, my comments today. Stephen is gone. I was taught not to say anything about someone unless you could say something good. Well, Stephen is gone! Good! And Chef Tom, I think he is sexy as hell!
jugsgirl
April 27, 2006 - 08:58 AM
I like Tom and Gail, they have a personality. Mrs. Joel really ruins the show for me. she is like a big bowl of soup that I call warm water. she is so bland. what in the world is she doing hosting a cooking show?
Teedot
April 27, 2006 - 09:06 AM
As a culinary instructor and chef, I see a glaring problem with the "wedding challenge".
No culinary professional that I know of would blindly plan a wedding function without knowing some key information:
* the budget (known)
* the number to be served (known)
* the type of event (known)
* the location of the event(NOT KNOWN)
* the timing of events(NOT fully KNOWN)
* and the DATE OF THE EVENT! (NOT KNOWN)
I feel the challenge was presented badly, in that the chefs did not know what they were planning for. I am sure some twists and red herrings could have been applied to make it an entertaining challenge without being so completely unrealistic.
Reading the blog about this challenge, I agree with much of what Mr. C. had to say, but feel some of the "problems" might have been eliminated, had the chefs known EXACTLY what they were catering.
Also, if Dave had catering experience in his past, then I would have expected him to stand up and say that working 16 hours straight through the night, then serving a special event like a wedding was a mistake. Other issues that occurred, I feel, were mostly based on the chefs not having catered for a large group before. Cooking in a restaurant for individual patrons, one or two plates at a time, is quite different from catering to a large group, all eating the same thing, such as a wedding reception, or even a cafeteria or buffet-style setting. Again, comments from Mr. C. on that topic, I felt were spot-on.
However, this challenge did remove Steven from the list, and for that, I am greatful.
As for the show, in general, the female "judges" are a yawn-fest. I do find myself perking up whenever Mr. C. speaks because I do feel that he is a professional and not just some pretentious "foody" with a famous spouse.
Regarding the contestants, I wonder why they would invite Candice (the young woman who had not completed culinary school), Lisa (the mother and home cook) and Andrea (health food cook). These people, as far as I could tell, were not experienced in professional cooking, and that inexperience is ultimately what got them kicked off the show. If the criteria is to be a professional chef or cook, then I wonder if that was made clear, or if those contestants were invited because of some other "production value" they might have provided...
I agree with the majority on this thread, that the guest judges show more personality, and give much more insight, than do the "regular" judges. If Bravo wants this show to succeed, they need to change some things, and I think the suggestions and comments on this thread would be a most excellent place for them to start looking for ideas.
Thanks for reading... here's to hoping it gets better.
leila4spirit
April 27, 2006 - 09:34 AM
It was very interesting to read your post. Most informative. But, again, this isn't like other challenges. If the problems were eliminated FOR the contestants how valuable would winning be? Tom is good I think. For example, he gave Harold a hint. "Is there an ice cream machine in this kitchen?" When Harold said he didn't know that means he didn't even check. I just like the degree of difficulty. Love this show and if anything on Bravo needs to be booted, it's The Real Housewives of Orange County. What a waste of air time. See y'all next Wednesday. Lee Ann is my favorite. I hope she wins. Leila
EllieP
April 27, 2006 - 02:38 PM
Quote:
As a culinary instructor and chef, I see a glaring problem with the "wedding challenge".
No culinary professional that I know of would blindly plan a wedding function without knowing some key information:
* the budget (known)
* the number to be served (known)
* the type of event (known)
* the location of the event(NOT KNOWN)
* the timing of events(NOT fully KNOWN)
* and the DATE OF THE EVENT! (NOT KNOWN)
I feel the challenge was presented badly, in that the chefs did not know what they were planning for. I am sure some twists and red herrings could have been applied to make it an entertaining challenge without being so completely unrealistic.
Reading the blog about this challenge, I agree with much of what Mr. C. had to say, but feel some of the "problems" might have been eliminated, had the chefs known EXACTLY what they were catering.
Also, if Dave had catering experience in his past, then I would have expected him to stand up and say that working 16 hours straight through the night, then serving a special event like a wedding was a mistake. Other issues that occurred, I feel, were mostly based on the chefs not having catered for a large group before. Cooking in a restaurant for individual patrons, one or two plates at a time, is quite different from catering to a large group, all eating the same thing, such as a wedding reception, or even a cafeteria or buffet-style setting. Again, comments from Mr. C. on that topic, I felt were spot-on.
However, this challenge did remove Steven from the list, and for that, I am greatful.
As for the show, in general, the female "judges" are a yawn-fest. I do find myself perking up whenever Mr. C. speaks because I do feel that he is a professional and not just some pretentious "foody" with a famous spouse.
Regarding the contestants, I wonder why they would invite Candice (the young woman who had not completed culinary school), Lisa (the mother and home cook) and Andrea (health food cook). These people, as far as I could tell, were not experienced in professional cooking, and that inexperience is ultimately what got them kicked off the show. If the criteria is to be a professional chef or cook, then I wonder if that was made clear, or if those contestants were invited because of some other "production value" they might have provided...
I agree with the majority on this thread, that the guest judges show more personality, and give much more insight, than do the "regular" judges. If Bravo wants this show to succeed, they need to change some things, and I think the suggestions and comments on this thread would be a most excellent place for them to start looking for ideas.
Thanks for reading... here's to hoping it gets better.
Bravo! (No pun intended)
EllieP
April 27, 2006 - 02:46 PM
I hate that you can't edit, gahhh! Anyway, Teedot's post made me think to a comment someone made a page or so back about the show: "It's like they aired a rough draft."
dennisinsanfran
April 27, 2006 - 03:05 PM
This is from Judge Gail's latest blog:
Quote:
There was no question in my mind that if Lee Anne had thought her menu through more carefully in the first place she could have avoided several of these problems.
Lee Anne was planning a wedding menu without knowing (at the time) that it would have to be thrown together in 16 hours.
Give her some credit, Gail! Sheesh.
Codytreats
April 27, 2006 - 03:20 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What bloody barn was Chef Tom raised in that he's never had a sandwich with a fork? I'm calling [censored] on this one. He's playing favorites rather than rating how good thier food actually is. When i go into a fine dining establishment, I don't expect the same old bread, mayo, and meat for 10 times the price and half the taste of a sandwich I made myself. Furthermore, to say you never eat a sandwich with a fork is downright ubsurd. Did they hire Chef Tom from subway maybe? Seriously I lost a ton of respect for him this week. If your going to make it a rule that the sandwiches have to be boring and uncreative to win then you say so from the beggining. Lost a ton of respect for him this week.
Sorry to disagree with you but if you look up sandwich in the dictionary it says; A sandwich is typically consisting of 2 pieces of bread between which are laid one or more layers of meat, cheese, vegetables or other fillings and meant to be eaten with your hands. I have never eaten a sandwich with a fork. An open face sandwich yes but not a typical sandwich.
Let's not forget the history of the sandwich. It originated, after all, because the Earl of Sandwich wanted to be able to eat with one hand and hold his playing cards with the other. (Now I'm sounding like Stephen again! Stop me!) That said, although I've enjoyed many an open-faced sandwich in my day, they're not really sandwiches in the strict sense of the term.
— Mother Hubbard
Again. Your dictionary definition says "typically" that doesn't mean always or has to be. And to reiterate my point, if that was the rule, then Tommy should have said so from the beggining. It was rediculous for him to disqualify Miguel's entry even though quote "hands down it tasted the best" because he didn't specify the rules at the start. Furthermore the charade of picking the thing up was classless and stupid. If he was disqualifying it anyway he could have sampled a bite the way it was intended instead of being an idiot about it. Clearly Tom was playing favorites. If Le Anne had made a sandwich with a fork that was "hands down the best tasting" it would have won.
I was watching the re-run of the QF challenge about creating a sandwich and I noticed that during the tasting, Tom says that Steven's sandwich is "quite good". During the Judges Table, Tom then changes his opinion and says that "the flavors were all over the place and didn't really work."
Anyone else notice this?
dennisinsanfran
April 27, 2006 - 03:27 PM
Quote:
I was watching the re-run of the QF challenge about creating a sandwich and I noticed that during the tasting, Tom says that Steven's sandwich is "quite good". During the Judges Table, Tom then changes his opinion and says that "the flavors were all over the place and didn't really work."
Anyone else notice this?
Oh, yeah, I noticed it all right. Total hypocrisy. That QF challenge was a complete sham and proved once again that next year, they need to have Chef Tom stick to judging or becoming a full-fledged mentor, like Tim Gunn on "Project Runway," and staying away from the judges' table.
gracehatter
April 28, 2006 - 07:15 AM
I really felt the need to comment on the guest judge for the Wedding Bell Blues eppie. I sense that she was unable to be objective at all...and had for some reason decided her role was to find fault rather than offer a critique based on an unbiased view of the event given her expertise in the field. Her unfettered snobbery and dripping disdain was appalling and offensive. I'm quite sure her clients would be expecting extraordinary fare and execution and I am equally sure she never throws an event together on the same budget and time contraints. I'll go even further and say the former is true and she has never planned her event and menu BEFORE she knows her budget or date...am I right here? I do understand that the editing of the shows leaves the viewer at a disadvantage of knowing all that was originally filmed but I was left wondering if the guest judge even left her seat to see how the house and kitchen were actually working the task...as she would do if she were actually working the wedding. Other than her comment about the sweeping of the room I did not hear any compliments and even that one seemed a bit skewered since that service was at the expense of the food and getting it out while warm and timely while one self absorbed contestant could bask in the sounds and sights of his own whiney voice and performance.
bluenosekitty
April 28, 2006 - 08:58 AM
Quote:
I really felt the need to comment on the guest judge for the Wedding Bell Blues eppie. I sense that she was unable to be objective at all...and had for some reason decided her role was to find fault rather than offer a critique based on an unbiased view of the event given her expertise in the field.
it was a bad choice to use her as a judge---she was clearly not an expert on food or cooking techniques as evidenced by her fawning over Stephen's B.S. performance in the dining room. She is a WEDDING PLANNER for freakin' sake---of course she would be impressed by the "sweeping" of the room because her job is all about choreographing B.S. like how the wedding party should march down the aisle, where people should sit, how many flowers to order, and all that awful wedding nonsense. She was an awful judge who had nothing relevant to say about cooking. If this show were "Top Wedding Planner" then maybe she should have been there but otherwise, no.
And more and more I'm disliking Colicchio---his venom and contempt for the contestants really came out in relief in this episode. No, this show isn't "Project Runway" as someone else pointed out---it really lacks a voice of reason and wisdom (i.e. the magical Tim Gunn) or a charismatic but tough presence to guide the show (i.e. the lovely Heidi Klum). It's weird to watch a show where one of the main judges/hosts (from his big role on the show Colicchio IS sort of a host --- the producers have yet to clearly define his role on the show which is a problem) displays such intense schaudenfreud in the failures and misfortunes of the contestants. He's like a spiteful gym teacher who loves watching the kids injure themselves to show how "tough" they are. I don't care if some people think he's "hot" (when is that a requirement for judging cooking?) his negativity and bullying attitude sucks the life out of the show and between him and RoboWoman the only reason I'm sticking around is to watch the contestants.
dennisinsanfran
April 28, 2006 - 09:25 AM
Quote:
And more and more I'm disliking Colicchio---his venom and contempt for the contestants really came out in relief in this episode. He's like a spiteful gym teacher who loves watching the kids injure themselves to show how "tough" they are. I don't care if some people think he's "hot" (when is that a requirement for judging cooking?) his negativity and bullying attitude sucks the life out of the show and between him and RoboWoman the only reason I'm sticking around is to watch the contestants.
I couldn't agree more. My opinion of him has really taken a nosedive since the first couple of episodes. At this point, I'm thinking I'd like to see "Top Chef" come back with a whole new lineup of judges and a mentor/host a la Tim Gunn. I'll be watching until the end only to sate my curiosity, but I think the potential of this show has really been squandered. All in all, a big disappointment.
mata
April 28, 2006 - 10:33 AM
Hi
Against my better judgement, based on the ferocity of the posts, I'm posting this, what the hell!
I was the "snooty-celebrity wedding planner" guest judge on this weeks episode
A little background:
I graduated from the Culinary Institute of America
in 1975 with the first class of females ( they had finally been forced to accept women)
I worked as a chef ( although admittedly I was not a super-star),co-owned several restaurants, and worked as a captain and banquet manager for many years before starting my own event planning business in 1986
Aside from having produced Katie and Bill's beautiful and joyous wedding
I have planned many,many weddings and events for all sorts of clients with all types of budgets. I also co-authored Weddings For Dummies (which has sold over 200,000 copies to date)and is considered to be one of the best books for those wishing to plan their own wedding.
What you should all keep in mind is that the guest judges have not seen ANY of the episodes before they come on to judge. We don't know who is talented, or who is pompous or any of the background of the contestants to date. I would have loved to be in the back of the house (where I spend a lot of my time professionally)in order to understand the challenge and the team,but was not given that option. I was told that they were catering a wedding -and to judge the results that's it. I had lots, and lots of helpful, funny, interesting comments on all aspects of the wedding food and service-but those were edited out in order to make me seem to be at my most shrewish ( and also to make Katie look as robotic as possible-which, in truth, is not who she is at all)
Ah well-be careful what you wish for in life!I had wanted to be on the show and it was still a fun experience!
bluenosekitty
April 28, 2006 - 11:15 AM
Quote:
I had lots, and lots of helpful, funny, interesting comments on all aspects of the wedding food and service-but those were edited out in order to make me seem to be at my most shrewish ( and also to make Katie look as robotic as possible-which, in truth, is not who she is at all)
Just curious, why do you think that the producers would edit the show that way?
marionnchen
April 28, 2006 - 11:32 AM
Thanks for posting in spite of the ferocity of the posts here! Some of us get a little carried away in our critiques of the show so take it with a grain of kosher salt. And thank you for the insider tidbits...it's good to know. That was gracious of you to share.
Toolchick101
April 28, 2006 - 12:11 PM
I wonder if they'll bring back some contestants to judge next season?
Like the TC winner could be a guest judge for a challenge. Or the top three could all judge on the same episode. That'd be kinda interesting.
marionnchen
April 28, 2006 - 12:24 PM
Quote:
I wonder if they'll bring back some contestants to judge next season?
Like the TC winner could be a guest judge for a challenge. Or the top three could all judge on the same episode. That'd be kinda interesting.
I wouldn't be surprised if they did. They brought Jay McCarroll from PR season 1 to judge in season 2. I think it would be fun to see them get a chance to critique for a change!
RexT
April 28, 2006 - 12:27 PM
Welcome. I believe your name is Marcy Blum. Thank you for dropping by. If you're free to disclose, maybe you can answer some questions. Thank you in advance for any response. You said,
Quote:
I would have loved to be in the back of the house (where I spend a lot of my time professionally)in order to understand the challenge and the team,but was not given that option. I was told that they were catering a wedding -and to judge the results that's it.
Can you elaborate as to why as a judge would you to go to the back of the house? Isn't taste enough?
Again, thank you for any reply.
RexT
April 28, 2006 - 12:33 PM
oops. excuse any typo.
EllieP
April 28, 2006 - 02:07 PM
I don't think the post about you being the "snooty celebity wedding planner" was ferocious at all. You said it yourself you are victim of editing so how can you fault someone for posting there thoughts and opinions on how you "appeared" to come off on the show? One thing i don't buy is your explanation of Joelbot. So they edit (nee program) her EVERY time to come off as a cross between C3P0 and a dominatrix? I fully expect one of the contestants to slip up and say "Yes Mistress Katie" any day now. :::insert eye roll here::::
Your credentials and accomplishments are very impressive. Congratulations on your success, you've worked hard and should be proud of things that you have accomplished. BUT, if I was you? I would have been extremely pissed off that they made it "appear" that your only "real" credential was that you did Joelbot's wedding. That sucks in my book. You deserved better than that. Good thing I'm not you, huh?
Thanks for dropping by and sharing your insight and remember comments are made here based on how things appear on the show. I applaud you doing the same and stating your point of view. Ain't America grand?
dylansmeanmama
April 28, 2006 - 03:27 PM
Quote:
Hi
Against my better judgement, based on the ferocity of the posts, I'm posting this, what the hell!
I was the "snooty-celebrity wedding planner" guest judge on this weeks episode
A little background:
I graduated from the Culinary Institute of America
in 1975 with the first class of females ( they had finally been forced to accept women)
I worked as a chef ( although admittedly I was not a super-star),co-owned several restaurants, and worked as a captain and banquet manager for many years before starting my own event planning business in 1986
Aside from having produced Katie and Bill's beautiful and joyous wedding
I have planned many,many weddings and events for all sorts of clients with all types of budgets. I also co-authored Weddings For Dummies (which has sold over 200,000 copies to date)and is considered to be one of the best books for those wishing to plan their own wedding.
What you should all keep in mind is that the guest judges have not seen ANY of the episodes before they come on to judge. We don't know who is talented, or who is pompous or any of the background of the contestants to date. I would have loved to be in the back of the house (where I spend a lot of my time professionally)in order to understand the challenge and the team,but was not given that option. I was told that they were catering a wedding -and to judge the results that's it. I had lots, and lots of helpful, funny, interesting comments on all aspects of the wedding food and service-but those were edited out in order to make me seem to be at my most shrewish ( and also to make Katie look as robotic as possible-which, in truth, is not who she is at all)
Ah well-be careful what you wish for in life!I had wanted to be on the show and it was still a fun experience!
i really appreciate the fact that you took the time to post, but can i ask you a couple of questions?
when you said your clients would have expected (and been given) better food, could you clarify one thing for me? do you honestly feel you could have done a 6 course meal with only 16 hours TOTAL and $30 a plate? it was obviously LATE evening when they were given the challenge. the chefs did not have the choice of obtaining the highest quality foods, nor did they have assistants. i personally doubt anyone could have done better with only 16 hours.
how much do you usually allow per person for a six course dinner? would you ever come up with a menu if you had an INKLING that you would be put on the spot to come up with said menu in 16 hours?
i feel that the entire group was set up to fail, with no safety net. maybe the time limit would have been acceptable, if they had access to quality ingredients. i feel the entire challenge was very poorly presented, and made all of them look bad.
also, many of the guests seemed to enjoy the food. one of the grooms said he could eat a dozen of something, and he also complimented another dish...yet when it was time to talk to tom, no one had anything good to say. i think they all did marvelous, given the ridiculous limits placed on them.
Spud
April 28, 2006 - 07:02 PM
Quote:
What you should all keep in mind is that the guest judges have not seen ANY of the episodes before they come on to judge. We don't know who is talented, or who is pompous or any of the background of the contestants to date. I would have loved to be in the back of the house (where I spend a lot of my time professionally)in order to understand the challenge and the team,but was not given that option. I was told that they were catering a wedding -and to judge the results that's it. I had lots, and lots of helpful, funny, interesting comments on all aspects of the wedding food and service-but those were edited out in order to make me seem to be at my most shrewish ( and also to make Katie look as robotic as possible-which, in truth, is not who she is at all)
Ah well-be careful what you wish for in life!I had wanted to be on the show and it was still a fun experience!
I am sure that on the "Reunion" show we will come to realize that many of the personalities we have become so involved with here are not what and who they seem, at the editors hands. My greatest fear is that having participated in this show some careers will fail because of it. What a shame if that were to come to pass.
It is obvious that the editor has done a great job because they do have so many of us all wrapped up in this. I wish we had access to more of the behind the scenes content that does not make it into the final version. I so enjoyed watching the chefs have fun with the "Fat Ass Junkfood" thingie.
Anyone who stands before an audience and is inevitably critiqued knows the public can be quite harsh. Please mata, remember that here, on the Internet, it can be harsh X-100 because we don't have to face, or see, and in most cases hear back from, the people we are tearing apart. Now I wish I could have heard more of your commentary in the show. You sound quite qualified from reading your post. Maybe you will pop back in and enlighten us more, once your contract / release form expires and you are free to share.
Thanks for popping in and sharing the little you could.
Dava
April 28, 2006 - 07:05 PM
After seeing you on the show I thought, well they really didn't show that much of her so maybe we didn't really see what she had to offer. On the show you seemed to be most impressed by appearances rather than substance. Upon reading your post, however, I realize that your resume is less impressive than your performance on the show.
From what you posted you appear to be a mediocre chef turned party planner, who has planned some forgettable or unpublicized "celebrity" weddings and helped to finance or "co-own" several unmentionable or defunct restaurants, and "co-author" books to help "dummies" plan a wedding.
Don't quit your day job.
homecooking
April 28, 2006 - 07:20 PM
Quote:
Hi
Against my better judgement, based on the ferocity of the posts, I'm posting this, what the hell!
I'm impressed. It took real courage to walk into this lion's den. I've read your book, "Weddings For Dummies," and found it really helpful.
There's one question I'd like to ask. (I understand if you don't or can't answer.) Where you told the conditions the chefs were working under? That they had pitched the menu before they knew they would only have 16 hours to prepare? Personally I feel that was outrageous and took unnecessary risk with a very special occasion. I wonder if the two Scotts were aware when they agreed to have Top Chef do the food that this was going to occur.
homecooking
April 28, 2006 - 07:26 PM
Dava, that was harsh and unnecessary. I'm disappointed in you. This isn't the kind of board where we welcome that kind of thing.
Spud
April 28, 2006 - 07:33 PM
Quote:
Dava, that was harsh and unnecessary. I'm disappointed in you. This isn't the kind of board where we welcome that kind of thing.
I think you will find that a lot of people agree with homecooking on this. The opinion could have been made mote tactfully.
Spud
April 28, 2006 - 07:35 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Dava, that was harsh and unnecessary. I'm disappointed in you. This isn't the kind of board where we welcome that kind of thing.
I think you will find that a lot of people agree with homecooking on this. The opinion could have been made mote tactfully.
more*
IronChef
April 28, 2006 - 07:51 PM
Quote:
After seeing you on the show I thought, well they really didn't show that much of her so maybe we didn't really see what she had to offer. On the show you seemed to be most impressed by appearances rather than substance. Upon reading your post, however, I realize that your resume is less impressive than your performance on the show.
From what you posted you appear to be a mediocre chef turned party planner, who has planned some forgettable or unpublicized "celebrity" weddings and helped to finance or "co-own" several unmentionable or defunct restaurants, and "co-author" books to help "dummies" plan a wedding.
Don't quit your day job.
Wow. Nice. That's some seriously disrespectful sh*t, Dava. Y'know, I love irreverence, cynicism and sarcasm as much as the next jaded, bone-dry wit, but those are bones even Karloff wouldn't pick.
Regardless of who's posting here, there is such a thing as common courtesy, and apologies for the undue sensitivity if that's what I've contracted, but it seems to me that you crossed a line that was totally unnecessary. You have every right to feel the way you do about what you posted, I'm not denying that, but the degree of venom and acid in the expression of those feelings was far more than what was called for. Again ... wow.
Lia
Akasha10
April 28, 2006 - 08:25 PM
Quote:
Hi
Against my better judgement, based on the ferocity of the posts, I'm posting this, what the hell!
I was the "snooty-celebrity wedding planner" guest judge on this weeks episode
A little background:
I graduated from the Culinary Institute of America
in 1975 with the first class of females ( they had finally been forced to accept women)
I worked as a chef ( although admittedly I was not a super-star),co-owned several restaurants, and worked as a captain and banquet manager for many years before starting my own event planning business in 1986
Aside from having produced Katie and Bill's beautiful and joyous wedding
I have planned many,many weddings and events for all sorts of clients with all types of budgets. I also co-authored Weddings For Dummies (which has sold over 200,000 copies to date)and is considered to be one of the best books for those wishing to plan their own wedding.
What you should all keep in mind is that the guest judges have not seen ANY of the episodes before they come on to judge. We don't know who is talented, or who is pompous or any of the background of the contestants to date. I would have loved to be in the back of the house (where I spend a lot of my time professionally)in order to understand the challenge and the team,but was not given that option. I was told that they were catering a wedding -and to judge the results that's it. I had lots, and lots of helpful, funny, interesting comments on all aspects of the wedding food and service-but those were edited out in order to make me seem to be at my most shrewish ( and also to make Katie look as robotic as possible-which, in truth, is not who she is at all)
Ah well-be careful what you wish for in life!I had wanted to be on the show and it was still a fun experience!
Assuming you were told NONE of the guidelines the chefs worked under (i.e. 16 hours, no decent places to shop, low money, etc.), I still feel your feedback was weak. The "sweep" of the room impressed you? Why? It wasn't that exciting and I'm sure the wait staff could have done it without Stephan's guidance.
Your post is also quite arrogant, in my opinion.
"I also co-authored Weddings For Dummies (which has sold over 200,000 copies to date)and is considered to be one of the best books for those wishing to plan their own wedding." By whom? I've never heard of it. If it's so great then shouldn't everyone have heard of it?
"...I had lots, and lots of helpful, funny, interesting comments on all aspects of the wedding food and service..." How do you know that your comments were funny, interesting and helpful? It's been my experience that people who say that are trying to convince themselves and others of how great they are. As I'm sure you've figured out by now, Stephan also made comments about how great he was in this or that area and pretty much everyone dislikes him for it.
"Aside from having produced Katie and Bill's beautiful and joyous wedding..." if you do say so yourself (yes, that was meant to be snide). That statement implies you feel it was beautiful and joyous because of how great you did at "producing" it. Speaking of which, one "produces" a wedding? I think not. One produces entertainment, not the most important day in most folks lives. If anyone produced the wedding, it was the bride and groom, not the party planner.
I could go on but I think you get my point. I'm sorry, but you aren't all that!
Akasha10
April 28, 2006 - 08:29 PM
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Dava, that was harsh and unnecessary. I'm disappointed in you. This isn't the kind of board where we welcome that kind of thing.
I think you will find that a lot of people agree with homecooking on this. The opinion could have been made mote tactfully.
HC and Spud, I gotta go with Dava on this one. She impressed me not at all and her post struck me as sounding very Stephan-ish.
IronChef
April 28, 2006 - 08:46 PM
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Dava, that was harsh and unnecessary. I'm disappointed in you. This isn't the kind of board where we welcome that kind of thing.
I think you will find that a lot of people agree with homecooking on this. The opinion could have been made mote tactfully.
HC and Spud, I gotta go with Dava on this one. She impressed me not at all and her post struck me as sounding very Stephan-ish.
I'm sorry, Akasha, for being divisive, but I have to side with HC and Spud. Whether or not Dava took issue with what mata posted, the tone Dava took went beyond discourteous. The issue isn't with *what* Dava said, it's with *how* it was said. There really is something to be said for the use of tact and diplomacy, neither of which (IMO) were used in the case of that post, and especially in the case of responding to someone brand new to the board, regardless of credentials or credibility.
Lia
homecooking
April 28, 2006 - 08:52 PM
I think it sounded defensive more than arrogant which is yeah, kind of Stephenish. I'm from the South - we're always polite to guests and it took a certain amount of guts to come on this board. I had just welcomed Dava to the board on another thread; she came on during the tidal wave; and I wanted to let her know I didn't like what she said. We'll have to disagree on this one.
homecooking
April 28, 2006 - 09:41 PM
I will admit though that I shouldn't have presumed to speak for the entire board. I may have been a little harsh with Dava myself because of the past few days of nastiness.
ChefG
April 29, 2006 - 04:18 AM
Hi all, I usually don't bother reading the judges boards but when I heard the guest judge posted, I wanted to check it out. I have to agree with Lia, Spud & HC, that was a bit harsh. You can disagree or make a comment without being quite so mean. I thought we all were upset over Thursday's rude posters and was surprised to read this one. We've had several weeks to see the personalities of the others on the show, and only a few clips to see the guest judge. I don't see anything wrong with her letting us all know what she's done in the past, and I think it's admirable she admitted while she had experience in the kitchen, she wasn't outstanding. Some people may not have the talent to produce great food but have a better eye and palate to critique it.
Let's all just try to be a bit nicer to guest posters in the future... I think its great she took the time to visit us here.
gracehatter
April 29, 2006 - 04:57 AM
Thanks for clearing some of that up and please note I did not call you a snooty-celebrity wedding planner!
dogabone
April 29, 2006 - 04:59 AM
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Hi all, I usually don't bother reading the judges boards but when I heard the guest judge posted, I wanted to check it out. I have to agree with Lia, Spud & HC, that was a bit harsh. You can disagree or make a comment without being quite so mean. I thought we all were upset over Thursday's rude posters and was surprised to read this one. We've had several weeks to see the personalities of the others on the show, and only a few clips to see the guest judge. I don't see anything wrong with her letting us all know what she's done in the past, and I think it's admirable she admitted while she had experience in the kitchen, she wasn't outstanding. Some people may not have the talent to produce great food but have a better eye and palate to critique it.
Let's all just try to be a bit nicer to guest posters in the future... I think its great she took the time to visit us here.
Hear, hear! Well said, ChefG. Your post is a well-stated breath of fresh air. We have a nice little community going on these boards, and there is no need to stoop to the childish level of posting I've seen in other places.
If we must make negative statements, at least let us infuse them with a little humor. It's amazing what you can get away with if you wrap it in a joke.
—Mother Hubbard
Akasha10
April 29, 2006 - 05:38 AM
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I think it sounded defensive more than arrogant which is yeah, kind of Stephenish. I'm from the South - we're always polite to guests and it took a certain amount of guts to come on this board. I had just welcomed Dava to the board on another thread; she came on during the tidal wave; and I wanted to let her know I didn't like what she said. We'll have to disagree on this one.
Works for me.
still love ya, baby (I need a sucker in my mouth to say that, don't I?)
suejohn
April 29, 2006 - 08:19 AM
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to be at my most shrewish ( and also to make Katie look as robotic as possible-which, in truth, is not who she is at all)
Ah well-be careful what you wish for in life!I had wanted to be on the show and it was still a fun experience!
I commented on this on the wedding epi board. I think we all could give Katie a break, she has the background to host this program, just not the skills. You don't know what you can do unless you try. Think of all the football players, nascar drivers, etc. who retire and try to be commentators on T.V. and SUCK, to be honest about it. You may have knowledge and ability but not everyone is good at teaching, public speaking and for goodness sake T.V. and please remember she is being edited, forced to read cue cards that are written for her. Give the girl a break maybe she just wanted to try.
EllieP
April 29, 2006 - 08:22 AM
Just so that I am clear: Are you saying that people should hold their proverbial tongues when a "guest poster" graces us with their presence? Isn't that like a total double standard? Don't say what you feel because they might get their feelings hurt because they "matter" more than the rest of the people here? I'm all about saying what you feel. Not everyone has the ability to sugar coat and some folks don't have the ability to express themselves other than to just say "that sucks" if they didn't like it or "that was good" if they did. In my humble opinion the fact that she posted here speaks volumes to me that she is insecure and felt like she had to defend herself to a bunch of faceless names on a message board. The reason that irrates me is that she obviously has paid her dues and busted her hind end to make a career for herself but that's not enough. She's worried about what people think about her and how she was "edited" when she should be worried about how she thinks about herself and her accomplishments.
On another note: To the poster that said the wedding challenge was predetermined to fail with no safety net, I say right on. It was a total set up.
shelagh
April 29, 2006 - 09:13 AM
no chef's are just fine. as long as we remember who we are Craftsmen not artistos not educators. we exist to delight our guests with qualty satisfying product. We are not splitting atoms here people. having been in the biz for over 25 years from prep cook to chef/owner of multiple stores,to semi-retired hash slinger. I can tell y'all this much, colliccio (sp?) is a thug, mrs. joel is an insolent who cares and simmons needs a serious personality infusion. This whole Gotcha! mentality is so common amongst the inferior cooks and the flash and trashers in this biz. for example this wedding challenge, I would like to see chef thugiccio pull off a gig like that wedding with his 40 cooks (ha!) with the vendor constraints given to these poor kids. oh yeah so when exactly is he tasting all of this food prepared by his forty cooks? before or after shooting his basic cable show? I know that in my busiest time I could not beam myself from one location to the next during service or prep time for that matter to taste everything. I used a different approach; hire professionals and train them, according to my standards, conduct regular walk-throughs and line-checks. correcting when necessary.
this show and these judges is everything I love and hate about this business, but please get some charismatic judges who might actually have a clue or who might actually mentor instead of continuing to set these kids up to fail. Ridiculous. can't believe I just wasted my time on this...
dogabone
April 29, 2006 - 09:50 AM
>mrs. joel is an insolent who cares<
Shelagh—Not quite sure what you meant by this. Can you clarify?
IronChef
April 29, 2006 - 10:07 AM
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Just so that I am clear: Are you saying that people should hold their proverbial tongues when a "guest poster" graces us with their presence? Isn't that like a total double standard? Don't say what you feel because they might get their feelings hurt because they "matter" more than the rest of the people here? I'm all about saying what you feel. Not everyone has the ability to sugar coat and some folks don't have the ability to express themselves other than to just say "that sucks" if they didn't like it or "that was good" if they did.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not about whether someone is a "guest poster" or not, it's about having respect, common courtesy and tact when dealing with and having discourse with people in general, online or not. It has nothing to do with whether someone is a "guest" or not, but it does have a lot to do with being polite and courteous to others as a rule of thumb, regardless of who they are or how long they've been here.
Lia
dogabone
April 29, 2006 - 10:14 AM
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Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, it's not about whether someone is a "guest poster" or not, it's about having respect, common courtesy and tact when dealing with and having discourse with people in general, online or not. It has nothing to do with whether someone is a "guest" or not, but it does have a lot to do with being polite and courteous to others as a rule of thumb, regardless of who they are or how long they've been here.
Lia
Well put, Lia! (And so glad you're still with us!) Anyone, new or old, can say anything here, but there is a level of etiquette that should be observed even when the sentiments expressed are negative.
—Mother Hubbard
homecooking
April 29, 2006 - 11:28 AM
I would like to add something in Dava's defense here, even though I'm the one who started this. I had noticed her posts in the Wedding Bells thread and I liked them enough to say Hi to her. She may have gone somewhat over the top because of an anger at the unfairness of this challenge. That's something I've been feeling myself. I get the impression that Dava may be new to online chat, and we all made missteps when we were new. It takes some time to find the right tone.
EllieP
April 29, 2006 - 11:56 AM
Gotcha, I see what you are saying. The way that the post was worded TO ME inferred that the "guest poster" should be addressed differently.
Like I said before (blatantly obvious Troll posts aside), some people don't know how to sugarcoat, or too word things to everyone elses satisfaction, or even maintain a level of etiquette. Does that make their observations any less than or wrong then yours? Or is it the fact that you just don't like or took offense to the way they said it? If it is, that's your problem and not the posters. Just give people the benefit of the doubt, that's all I am saying.
LisaGuacamole
April 29, 2006 - 12:21 PM
Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks the judges are the worst part of the show, but what I want to know is who comes up with these challenges? Catering a wedding for 100 heads out of a grocery store in 16 hours? Come on! It's Top Chef, not Wonder Chef! And then they judged the performance as if the chefs had ample time and resources necessary for such an event! Oh well, at least Steven is finally outta there! Hopefully Tiffani will get her walking papers next! GO LE ANNE!!!
graces
April 29, 2006 - 01:06 PM
I know this subject has been broached before, but I'm so irritated every time I watch this show that I have to vent.
Mrs. Joel: I cannot take her seriously as anyone who has any depth regarding the food industry. To me, she is entirely unbelievable. She is a beautiful woman, granted, but her grating, nasal, non-tonal voice and utter lack of any emotion makes me wonder if the producers couldn't find anyone else to host the show. At least Heidi Klum is a veteran of her industry and always showed a hint of remorse when she had to say auf wiedersehen. Everytime I watch the show I ask the TV set what the deal is. I understand the food industry is different than the fashion industry, and kitchen people like to make out that they're in a war and like soldiers in the trenches, so the producers have tried to make the judges all tough and bad ass, but somehow it's just less interesting to me.
I was hooked into this show much like others who swung from Runway, and my complaints don't keep me from watching it. I worked front of house in restaurants for twenty years, so I have a curiousity about the chefs and it's fun to watch. I simply am so dissapointed about the judges. Why didn't they have a cooking school teacher be the advisor instead of have just one person be advisor/judge? Wouldn't Chef Tom be biased?
I have other comments about the show but I'll stick to the judges on this one. I think if they changed the host to a more mature and much more interesting person, kept Chef Tom and Gayle but added in an advisor to the kitchen, it would make the show far more real and interesting.
thanks for reading my venting!
ps: I love Harold. He reminds me of every hard-working, in the trenches, cares about the food AND people kitchen person that I ever worked with.
erthgoddss
April 29, 2006 - 02:49 PM
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to be at my most shrewish ( and also to make Katie look as robotic as possible-which, in truth, is not who she is at all)
Ah well-be careful what you wish for in life!I had wanted to be on the show and it was still a fun experience!
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I commented on this on the wedding epi board. I think we all could give Katie a break, she has the background to host this program, just not the skills. You don't know what you can do unless you try. Think of all the football players, nascar drivers, etc. who retire and try to be commentators on T.V. and SUCK, to be honest about it. You may have knowledge and ability but not everyone is good at teaching, public speaking and for goodness sake T.V. and please remember she is being edited, forced to read cue cards that are written for her. Give the girl a break maybe she just wanted to try.
I agree suejohn! I admit I was one of the few who posted about the 'plastic princess'.. but have had time to think about what I was saying. I think it is just her voice. Yes he is talented and I believe quite lovely to look at (Ok.. I am a straight female and comparing my looks to hers.. ummm .. in that case she is Gorgeous! LOL) It is just her voice. She doesn't have a commanding voice.. so it makes her sound wooden. Probably all she would need is a good voice coach to bring out some of her personality.
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